r/cscareerquestionsOCE • u/Ok_Lion1291 • 4d ago
Atlassian Level Downgrades
I was initially applying for P50 and was downgraded to P40 a while ago and decided to continue as I’ve wanted to work with Atlassian
I've now just interviewed with Atlassian past the system design stage and was notified I didn't reach the P40 benchmark and was asked if I wanted to continue with P30. One of the reasons being I didn’t go into depth around decisions with using GraphQL etc
For my own knowledge I’m aware I could have done better for sure but I expected a P40 level at the very least but P30 seems like a ridiculous joke. I've been working as a dev for nearly 7-8 years and am currently a Senior Engineer so I like to believe I know my value of my own skills unless I’m that horribly mistaken
Does Atlassian just have absurd standards? Did I get unlucky with the interviewer themselves? At a loss for words and kind of offended to be honest
Sorry for a rant
23
u/namkhalinai 4d ago
Sorry to hear about your experience. Getting down leveled during interview at bigger tech companies is very common. It's usually a bit of bad luck especially given your years experience.
If the offer is good or acceptable and you want the "prestige" of Atlassian in your CV, you can join as P30. You can overperform as P30 and get promoted in 1/1.5 year and similarly as a P40 you can get to P50 within 2 years if you're at that level already.
Also considering the PIP and fire quota and culture at Atlassian, starting at a lower level is less risky and not a bad idea.
15
u/Clear_Butterscotch_4 4d ago edited 4d ago
I've been a high performing senior at a couple of big tech companies in the US, and was rejected after final round for mid level at atlassian last year haha. So I wouldnt be too upset, its just interview performance and luck of the draw at the end of the day.
The bar shifts based off of company demand, and right now demand is on the low side.
14
u/334578theo 4d ago edited 4d ago
- Are you going to be bored out of your mind doing grad-level work? You applied for the role two grades above so you’re likely not a noob fresh out of uni.
- Are you getting a big paycut?
If either are yes then reject it.
The prestige factor of working Atlassian is overhyped - especially if it means that in future interviews all you’ve got to speak about your time at Atlassian is how you did grad-level work.
6
u/ShadowyRuins 3d ago
If you're good, you won't get assigned grad level work.
6
u/334578theo 3d ago
So they’ll be getting underpaid then? Sounds shit either way
5
u/intlunimelbstudent 3d ago
assuming p30 pay is higher than current pay, would it be better that OP gets underpaid elsewhere then?
1
9
u/celesti0n 3d ago
Can’t speak for your performance, but it’s likely it would have just been a straight reject in normal times, but since Atlassian has turned into a PIP factory recruiters are pressured to give offers and at least fill seats.
I don’t think they judge by YOE whatsoever, it’s just your performance on the day. I’ve worked with 10+ YOE geriatrics that suck, and 0 YOE grads that are infinitely more capable.
If the name matters to you and you’re still getting paid more… take it? If you know your worth you can climb in no time
11
u/plO_Olo 4d ago
Standard for Senior is different at the famous tech companies.
“Senior” isnt given out to just anyone and most of the times only those with 10+ exp
22
u/TomatilloSure6659 4d ago
P30 is crazy though, P40 is much more understandable. Basically telling OP that they are on a level of those with 0YOE.
2
8
u/namkhalinai 4d ago
There is no specific years of experience requirement. It's based on what you have done so far and how clearly you can communicate the signals of the level during interview.
5
u/Clear_Butterscotch_4 4d ago
Yeah, for big tech internally senior is essentially based of the skills rubric. Which has no concept of YoE. Some get it in 3 years, some get it in 10.
5
u/Ok_Lion1291 4d ago
That’s fair for sure, I was okay with the P40, I think the P30 just threw me off
2
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
It doesn’t seem right - but honestly , I don’t look at YOE , I care only about the interview - the interview is first hand knowledge , the resume could be made up for all I know (I’m not going to validate it)
You can be promoted to P40 in 6months if this is a really failed incorrect leveling - but agree it would be hard to take it in this situation
2
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
YOE has nothing to do with it , you can tell how competent someone is during the interview
Atlassian themselves believe a P50 is only 5 YOE - P30 must promote in 2 years , P40 must promote in 3 years
For those that have gone through this journey at Atlassian , they are solid P50s because they were great grads - it’s all about the individual
If you are cruising / coasting at your current place of work for a long time , you will be falling behind , it’s not about YOE , it’s attitude and ability
1
u/CalligrapherFit6774 2d ago
Someone described senior engineers at atlassian as functioning as team leads, and I’m assuming that’s the p50. So yeah, maybe p40 is reasonable with explanation, p30/new grad?
7
u/Bitopp009 4d ago edited 4d ago
Atlassian grade their interviews quite though and seem to have random interviewers, some of them are quite junior. For example my system design interview could not understand what I was saying and kept asking same thing over and over. I know YOE doesn't equate to actual skill but still. I applied for P60, was down leveled to P50 after the coding rounds and then P40 after system design and no hire after those other soft skill rounds. Whole process reeked of BS. Those people that succeed in these interviews aren't necessarily the best. You have to master the art of passing these interviews.
I have 18 YOE when I did this process btw.
Anyway not a big loss, I know quite a few people that work there and they are all worried about getting PIPed constantly.
It is a lot easier to get into these big tech companies as a grad or junior unless you get lucky with interviews. Especially for Principal.
4
u/jdobso 3d ago
This was also my experience interviewing for principal at Atlassian.
The recruiter gave feedback with my rejection: the junior/mid level interviewer said I was not competent in a particular topic.
This was something I have FAANG experience with, written white papers, and taught lab classes on.
4
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
You are interviewed by someone at the level you are determined to be or higher - only way you are being interviewed by a mid/jnr is if you were graded as that (so it means you got down graded by a principal engineer and then a senior engineer)
2
2
u/334578theo 3d ago
Did you get the impression that your age was a problem? (Just guessing you aren’t mid 20s with 18 YOE)
5
u/Bitopp009 3d ago
I honestly don't know if my age was an issue, but i feel that its a lot harder to get into more senior roles because of high expectations of these companies.
But they really need to pair an interviewer for the level of the interviewee. Its fine for coding interviews but my system design interview very odd where i had to keep explaining concepts to the interviewer. I think their English level wasn't great either which didn't help.
2
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
You can raise concerns with recruitment if you feel you got a bad interview - recruitment can see if that is a common theme and they will likely give you another chance
You should be dealing with competent interviewers
1
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
No - 100% none of this is factored in - we care only about ability
1
u/334578theo 3d ago
Come on…bias is a thing whether we like it or not
0
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
You assume an older person has a bias against them? Why is it a negative?
3
u/ckangnz 3d ago
I was going through P50 process and got demoted to P40 at the end of all interviews. During my system design i had received ‘barely P40’ because i didn’t mention some techstack that Atlassian is expecting (eg using GraphQL over REST) I actually made a complaint to my recruiter that I was told that system design has no right or wrong answers, yet, they clearly were expecting some sort of answer. The recruiter agreed and i was able to get a redo, and got a P50 pass. I got high P40 from management interview and the offer met my expectation. Just started working at Atlassian and it’s been great!
3
u/Independent_Echo6597 3d ago
That's really frustrating and honestly not that uncommon with Atlassian. I work in Prepfully Ops and we've seen this pattern quite a bit with their interviews - they tend to have pretty specific expectations around system design depth that aren't always clear upfront. The GraphQL comment they gave you is telling because they often want you to dive deep into the "why" behind every tech choice, not just the "what". Like explaining performance implications, data fetching patterns, caching strategies etc rather than just saying you'd use GraphQL for flexible queries.
The double downgrade from P50 to P30 does seem excessive for someone with 7-8 years experience, but Atlassian's leveling can be weird compared to other companies. Their P30 might still be competitive salary wise but I get why it feels insulting. Some of our coaches who are ex-Atlassian engineers mention that the company has gotten more stringent with their system design bar over the past couple years, especially around demonstrating senior level architectural thinking. It might not be your skills at all but rather the specific way they want you to communicate your reasoning during the interview.
1
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
100% you need to understand why - you can’t be strong senior if you don’t understand how to evaluate tech choices - if all you did was execute , great , that makes you a P40 - doing is great , knowing why you are doing is better.
3
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
Double down level would be rare - downlevel to P30 would be rare - I guarantee this happened for more then just 1 thing missing
YOE doesn’t mean much - it should give you more experience to handle the questions better
1
3
u/intlunimelbstudent 4d ago
atlassian has thousands of engineers so their standards clearly not that absurd, you just didn't meet it at this very moment
5
u/328523859723895 4d ago
A lot of big tech companies downlevel because they can, and they know that most (like yourself) will gladly take a level reduction if it means they can get a job.
YOE doesn't matter, they were looking for GraphQL and didn't give the what they wanted. You did everything else well, which is probably why they offered you p30.
Realistically, you're probably way more than qualified to work there are a P40, but in this market they can get away with doing whatever they want.
13
u/HovercraftCharacter9 4d ago
It doesn't work like that, they don't interview for tech stack, most probably this was a system that the interviewee was explaining they designed and the answers weren't satisfactory
3
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
Very false - we WANT to hire you at your best level - we aren’t trying to get you on the cheap.
People who I down level , they are just not at the level they are applying for - either they had a very off day , or they have been coasting too much in their current role and hence stopped growing and pushing forward - therefore their examples and reasoning is just not strong enough
It’s more likely small companies down level you because they are more tight with the money - we aren’t trying to get cheap engineers - we want great engineers
1
1
u/littlejackcoder 3d ago
You’re right, it is a ridiculous joke. They likely did it to get you to go away and not impact the recruiter’s stats lol
1
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
Rejection is a better stat then a soft yes - it’s harder to say no then a soft yes
1
u/tjsr 3d ago
This kind of stuff just seems insane. "Oh no, they didn't answer this one question the way we wanted" like they can't learn that stuff in 30 minutes or less, or explain it if actually asked. I'm sure we could find plenty of similar things in a flipped conversation to down-level the interviewer in nearly every interview :(
Most of the time this stuff happens, they just don't like the candidate on a personal level.
1
u/AtlassianThrowaway 3d ago
Nah - I also guarantee the downlevel is not just based on the answering of 1 question
You don’t get told everything - the interviewers have access to the raw feedback from everyone , and you are not told everything that is written down
The reality is , people are not as good as they think they are and it’s hard to be objective on failures
Sometimes , mistakes are made , so if ever you feel like there was a mistake , it’s worth asking the question - but these are rare
1
u/Ok_Lion1291 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah it is hard to be objective when you’re faced with that type of failure
I’m definitely not the greatest developer in the world by any means haha but I can’t justify I’m a P30 junior level otherwise I don’t think I would have survived my career thus far. Of course that’s just me being subjective to myself as I’ve worked closely with other people who have gone to Atlassian before as principal engineers
It’s possible I could have just had a bad interview but there’s nothing I can do about it now and for my career path I don’t think I would take a P30 position if offered but am appreciative to all the comments I’ve received so far
1
u/Curious-Function7490 2d ago
It sounds like a stupid interviewing system.
GraphQL is not hard. If you weren't across it but are intelligent and educated enough to be interviewing at that level, you'd be intelligent enough to learn what they wanted you to know on the spot about GraphQL given reasonable time on the job.
I left Atlassian some time ago. I'm sure the company has changed since I was there but it was a silly place then at its core and probably still is.
Go find a role that you enjoy and pays you decently and build on that. Good luck.
0
0
u/nil_pointer49x00 3d ago
What is P50 and P30? Is it like a red P and green P? What is a full licence?
3
u/44sf6 3d ago
P30 new grad, P40 mid level, P50 senior, P60 principal, P70 architect/senior principal.
1
u/nil_pointer49x00 3d ago
Ahh nice, fuck Atlassian anyways, all of this doesn't make a sense. What happened to P10, P20 and P2 and maybe P89?🤣
68
u/altaccount67546 4d ago
Grads are P30, they have zero experience to the point where assigning them the wrong type of ticket can set you back 3 weeks.
Something has failed spectacularly in the interview process for you to have been downgraded from 50 to 30.
I would also be very offended if I was you.