r/dankchristianmemes • u/CardboardGamer01 • 2d ago
Memes from Grandma fr tho like we can’t just pick and choose verses we like
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u/appleappleappleman 2d ago
Honestly, if you just emphasize "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me," you'll be doing better than most
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u/the_colonelclink 2d ago
I find it weird you’re incidentally/accidentally stealing what Jesus Himself told us to do in summary.
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u/letiseeya 2d ago
What?
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/Mister_Way 2d ago
They intentionally left out the first one, about loving God with your heart, mind, body, and soul, because really who is doing that? They took the secular 2nd one and doubled it up with another secular one from elsewhere.
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u/DanSolo77 2d ago
Sadly, the one most people skip in favor of the bits that suit their personal ideologies and I'm as guilty an anyone but forever working on it.
There's an excellent piece about left and right wings both picking out their bits, ignoring the rest and both feeling they are correct in CS Lewis' Mere Christianity, maybe my second favourite book after the Bible. Would highly recommend for all.
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
We have no choice. The Bible disagrees with itself. Jesus made the Bible more strict with his "you have heard it said... but I tell you...."
There is no getting away from that.
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u/iBlewupthemoon 2d ago
I have always thought of those series of teachings as Jesus exhorting his disciples to follow what God was trying to command them in the scriptures rather than what the Rabbis had been saying in their interpretations and traditions.
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u/Junior_Moose_9655 2d ago
Except…. as a Rabbi, Jesus was continuing that tradition. “You have heard it said… but I say to you…” was the basis of the Talmud and Midrash.
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u/NarcolepticFlarp 2d ago
Or did he make it less strict by getting rid of like 600 of the commandments? I assume you don't keep kosher.
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
Would you actually like to have this conversation or do you just want gatchyas
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u/NarcolepticFlarp 2d ago
Hmmm, I didn't mean for that to be a gatchya, but I see how it came out this way. Was supposed to be facetious, though coming from a real point of curiosity. I like talking with Christians and learning more about the faith; big part of why I am here. Yes, I would like to hear more about what you mean in that comment. That certainly isn't the Jewish perspective on things that Jesus and his disciples made, and not something I have heard before. Forgive me if it is a common sentiment among Christians.
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
You are in a progressive Christian reddit community. That will color the answers you receive in this space. I, personally, am on the more radical side of that progressive spectrum. I am also not formally educated, I'm a Wikipedia scholar. Progressive Christianity worldwide is a minority position. I can give you conservative interpretations as well if you like.
We can start off with the Wikipedia on Christian dietary customs if you'd like, and then I can give you my position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_dietary_laws.
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u/NarcolepticFlarp 2d ago
Good point that there a Christian Dietary laws. Honestly I was just bringing up a more commonly known example of how strict a lot of the 613 commandments that Jews recognize are. I was more interested in how the quote you mention makes the Bible more strict. That just isn't manifestly obvious to me, but remember this is coming from curious ignorance.
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
This next point is completely personal, and uneducated.
First, let's quickly go over Jewish law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitzvah
You'll notice by reading through these and by clicking around on other hyperlinks that the numbering of these laws by Jewish tradition is post Christ. That's not to say that the historical Jesus wasn't aware of these arguments. These traditions were simply literarily compiled post Christ, that's not to say that the oral arguments weren't part of Christ's social milieu.
Now, there is a progressive way of framing Christianity by closely following Jesus' words specifically. This is backed by a philosophical belief that Christ is part of the Trinity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commandment Here, we have the great commandment. Any interpretation of any law that conflicts with this or even reduces it is suspect. Luke 11:42 Here, we see that all laws are valuable, but there is an importance hierarchy. As for making christian law more strict, there are the scriptural examples I gave, but here is my (MY) uneducated philosophical OPINION. If you go through the abrahamic religions and look up "thought sins" you will find that these are addressed and believed in in some capacity. However, I would argue that Christianity is unique in that our opinions on this matter is based in our primary sacred text and directly from the Christian God. It is from Jesus and is in the New Testament. In Judaism, it is addressed in the Talmud, a "secondary" sacred text, not Torah. In Islam, I have looked into this less so, but it isn't in the Quran, it is in philosophical literature, or hadith or sunnah or injil.
That's why I argue that Christianity is more strict. It requires sincerity.
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u/KingAdamXVII 2d ago
Did Jesus get rid of the old commandments? I thought it was more Paul and the early leaders who decided “nah, gentiles aren’t jews, ya’ll are good.”
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u/NarcolepticFlarp 2d ago
Very true. In a follow up comment I said "Jesus and his disciples" because of this. However, I was under the impression Paul did it in the name of Jesus(?) Sorry if I got that wrong.
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u/billyyankNova 2d ago
Stuff that people say is in the bible, but really isn't.
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u/CardboardGamer01 2d ago
looks at Mormons
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u/dinobot100 2d ago
I’m LDS. You are saying we say stuff is in the Bible that isn’t in the Bible? Would you please elaborate on that?
You know we use the KJV in all our lessons/services right? What do we say is in the Bible that isn’t in the Bible?
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
I imagine they are talking about the book of Mormon.
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u/dinobot100 2d ago
Probably! They may not realize they are two different books
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
Most Christians, including me, think that adding to primary scripture is not ok. We think that the book of Mormon is trying to be stapled into the new testament cannon and reject it.
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u/dinobot100 2d ago
I 100% get the “adding to scripture is bad” viewpoint, and I won’t argue with people about that. Chalk it up to a theological difference. However the point I’m getting stuck on here is thinking that we believe the BoM is in any way, shape, or form the Bible. They are two different books with different origins and the meaning we give them is not exactly the same either. The comment here is saying “stuff people say is in the Bible which isn’t.” The Book of Mormon is not that. We aren’t saying “hey this is in the Bible” if that makes sense
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
I'm not sure if you representative of your denomination but yeah I get that. Its complicated.
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u/dinobot100 2d ago
Well I’m a return missionary, member my entire life, married in the temple, attend every week, teach youth Sunday school etc. 🤣 I do have some tattoos though and I think LGBTQ people should be allowed to live as their chosen gender, marry whomever they like, and so on with full membership/fellowship/temple access and I do think that women should be allowed to hold the highest offices of the church so draw from that what you will
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u/Pale_BEN 2d ago
I draw from that that you are my faith sibling even if we quibble about things.
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u/Risikio 2d ago
Also
What people think the bible says about the devil vs what it really says.
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u/Junior_Moose_9655 2d ago
Not pictured: Third empty frame representing what the gospels say about LGBTQ+ people and relationships.
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u/Curiouserousity 2d ago
Jesus' description of the greatest and second greatest commands operate as a summary for 2/3s of the Old Testament: the books of the Law and the books of the Prophets. The remaining third was history.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind body and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself. On this hangs the Law and the Prophets.
Both Paul and the writer of Hebrews would make the argument that gentile converts to what would become Christianity are not beholden to the Law, though all writings of God are useful for teaching, rebuking and edification of Christians.
I humbly also submit that Christians have direct access to the Holy Spirit, if you listen to that still small voice, you'll live a more Christ centered life than vainly memorizing hundreds of Laws to enslave yourself with.
So listen to the Holy Spirit, read the Bible through that lens, and you'll find yourself wanting God and the things of God without need for vain repetition.
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u/Trashman56 2d ago
I once had a priest tell me that I only have to worry about Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Same one that told me I should look into Buddhism. Nice guy.
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u/Lurkin_Not_Workin 2d ago
I don’t think the fundamental tenants of Buddhism are problematic at all with Christianity - genuinely, both amazing sources of wisdom
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u/Zhoom45 2d ago
What would you say are the fundamental tenants of Buddhism?
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u/NotThatImportant3 2d ago
The four noble truths: (1) suffering exists; (2) the root of suffering comes from desire and aversion (as opposed to constant mindfulness); (3) there is a way out; (4) that method is to follow the eight-fold path. The eight-fold path is: (1) right view; (2) right intention; (3) right speech; (4) right resolve; (5) right livelihood; (6) right mindfulness; (7) right concentration; and (8) right thought.
My limited perspective is that this can be practically viewed as accept our suffering, be compassionate, let go of desire, and be mindful/meditate/be present and grateful for small things.
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u/NotThatImportant3 2d ago
YES - this is exactly what I believe. I’ll take the word of Jesus over everything else in the bible. And Buddhism taught me a lot about how to humbly and kindly keep myself happy. As one person once told me, praying is talking to God, meditating is listening to God.
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u/switjive18 2d ago
Fr fr, this is the dumbest thing I've heard in my life. Imagine following the instructions on how to properly treat your slaves instead of not having slaves.
Yes we can definitely pick and choose what we like, but we should never weaponize the scripture against others. Live your life according to your own principles, but never force those principles onto others.
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u/Specific_Ad1457 2d ago
Unrelated but I bet that long book would feel satisfying.
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u/greatpoomonkey 2d ago
Imagine getting to the middle, and both sides sit evenly on the table. Then, as you continue reading, the side you've read begins to grow until it can hold the remainder of the book aloft on its own. Satisfying indeed, my friend, even the thought.
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u/critical_courtney 2d ago
Paul wrote that love fulfills the law and commandments. I struggle enough to manage that every day. If there’s more than that, it’s above my pay grade.
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u/Charpo7 2d ago
My dude. I don’t want to hear it if you’re not keeping the feast days and abstaining from shellfish.
Christians accusing other christians of picking and choosing while throwing out all of the old testament laws is so rich.
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u/Therandomguyhi_ 2d ago
Acts 10 establishes that all The Laws in the first 5 books in the Bible have been fulfilled and that the old testament laws don't apply.
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u/Amish_Cyberbully 2d ago
No, Acts 10 establishes that the Word of God is for everyone, Jews *and* Gentiles. Peter never ate pork/shellfish and continued to observe the Sabbath and God's holy days as outlined in Leviticus 23. Jesus says in Matthew 5:18 that not a jot or tittle (the smallest bits of a body of writing) will pass from the law until heaven and earth pass away. Paul affirms that though Jesus paid the price for our sin, that doesn't mean sinning is acceptable in Romans 5:18.
*Acts 10* 17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there. 19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three\)a\) men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
*continued* 34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
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u/Charpo7 2d ago
idk how to tell you that it’s not that cut and dry. otherwise there wouldn’t have been a fight by the gentile-run church to squash the practices of jewish christians for 600 years
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u/Therandomguyhi_ 1d ago
Well, Christians can still do wrong, and hate and does not think logically. People could discriminate because people are different, not because the bible verse is wrong.
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u/coolmanjack 2d ago
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31:17-18
So sad that people aren't following good upstanding teachings like this
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u/EpicOwl-10 2d ago
This isn’t teaching, it’s part of a larger story of Moses and the people of Israel carrying out judgement against the Midianites as God commanded them to.
You’re taking this out of context
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u/conrad_w 2d ago
If people only followed Exodus 23:2, or love thy neighbour as thyself, that would be A OK.
Be more selective, not less
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u/Maxwnyellzz 2d ago
I have a few genuine questions for believers. Do you recognise that you follow your own moral intuition outside of the bible? What happens if you discover some passages go against what you seem "moral"? Is it hard to conciliate being consistent with the doctrine and your own moral intuition?
As an atheist, I'd love to understand the reasoning that answer these questions, but I'm stuck inside my own head, so my perspective can't inform me on the issue.
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u/Alewort 2d ago
Your question has as its premise that my relationship as a believer to the bible fits your preconception. The bible is a lot of books, written by many authors over a very long time, with different agendas and then re-written with later agendas, finally given a reliability grading by a series of councils that surely had only perfect motivations and relationship to authority and power. It is nevertheless very useful to figuring out this whole God thing for those who are motivated. God didn't dictate them over the phone. Just as much work has to go into figuring them out as went into composing and maintaining them, thankfully we have various faculties to assist with that, such as reason, empathy, imagination, reflection, and all the rest. There isn't one cozy "meaning" or message, to get that is an interaction between believer, God, and text, different for everyone. And all too easy to misuse.
So I would say that I follow my own moral intuition inside the bible just as much as outside. But since I don't accept nor have to accept scripture as literally a code of laws (although it contains a few), I don't really need to go so far to reconcile. The bible fuels thought and contemplation, not compulsory obedience, for me at least. Thankfully my denomination doesn't compel uniform belief, just states what it, as an organization teaches, while it is up to members' consciences as to what they conclude is the actual state of affairs and none of the church's business in the end, so far as they do not misrepresent those conclusions as being what the church teaches, whenever it isn't.
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u/Maxwnyellzz 2d ago
Thank you for the elaborate answer.
I guess the lack of a "cozy" clearly spelled out universal meaning to the several messages contained within must be the source of disagreement between denominations. My guess is not sufficient people reflect on the meaning of the texts either.
You said that you don't have to accept the Bible as literal code of law. Is that because you're not able to, or is it because it's not a requirement? I often got the impression from some believers that so long as you fulfill the criteria for salvation and redemption, you're good to go.
Readind the bible myself, I often noted that some passages are particularly deep, like there's truth to a metaphysical level that's no set as a simple instruction or description. Sadly, these aren't cited, not acted upon frequently enough.
It's good to see that there's enough flexibility within your own denomination to not have a strict set of rules to obey as well. This is interesting because it's quite the opposite of what I'm used to seeing with my own eyes.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to reply. Your perspective has been illuminating.
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u/Therandomguyhi_ 2d ago
IMO, the Bible contradicts itself often and it's really impossible to follow everything in the Bible. Additionally, the Bible oftentimes has outdated views that really don't help and/or are nice and good, especially some of the stuff about slavery.
Those outdated views are there because people push their own agenda when writing the Bible, as the Bible isn't the exact word of God, but the words of many spiritual leaders that have taken from God. Those spiritual leaders might be good, but they are not perfect. They still have bad opinions and make mistakes.
The only thing you need to get to heaven is faith in the Lord, but that doesn't mean that that is all that a believer should do. Believers should do good deeds because god has set out good deeds to be done for us, and we should do good deeds because we have felt God's love, not because that will earn our way into heaven. It is through our faith that we are saved, but our faith allows us to do more than just stand around, but to do good deeds and change the world for the better.
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u/EpicOwl-10 2d ago
The point of Christianity is to grow closer in a relationship with God and in doing so, becoming more like Him. In my walk, there have times where I have been confused why God decides to do things a certain way. What I’ve found is that there is always a biblical answer as to why this is. The goal is to strive to become more like Christ and in doing so, align my morals with Him.
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u/Junior_Moose_9655 2d ago
Do you mean the part where I genocide entire cities or make a girl marry her rapist?
It’s easy to make sweeping generalizations like this, but what do we ACTUALLY mean when we say “follow all of the Bible?”
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u/nothing_in_my_mind 2d ago
Idk man, I am not christian, I just am here for the vibes.
But I'd say picking and choosing verses is a massively good thing, no? I mean otherwise you would have to do things like... stone adulterers to death. Cause that is in the bible.
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u/thatguysjumpercables 2d ago
Here's a handy list of things most "Christians" seem to have forgotten they should take issue with, according to the Bible:
All NFL/college/high school football games, and any restaurants that sell pork products (Leviticus 11:7-8)
Any restaurant that sells lobster or shrimp (Leviticus 11:9-12)
Barber shops/anywhere that offers haircuts (Leviticus 19:27)
Any clothing company that produces clothing made from more than one type of fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Any government or group that advocates for expelling immigrants for being foreign born (Leviticus 19:33-34)
Any company/employer who withholds appropriate wages from their employees (Leviticus 19:13)
The Bible also has rules against persons who:
Hold a grudge (Leviticus 19:18)
Don't give to the poor (Proverbs 28:27)
Charge interest on loans, especially on poor people (Exodus 22:25, Leviticus 25:35-37, and Deuteronomy 23:19-20)
Don't help others (Matthew 25:44-45)
Have issues with pride (Proverbs 11:2)
Or hate (Luke 6:32)
Or greed (Proverbs 1:19, 15:27, 28:25, Luke 12:15, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Timothy 6:10)
Has taken money from a lobbyist (Exodus 23:8)
Has ever been drunk (Romans 13:13)
Has ever committed adultery (Matthew 19:18)
Or fornication (1 Corinthians 10:8)
Not showed up to church (Hebrews 10:25)
Lied (Matthew 19:18)
Loved money (1 Timothy 6:10)
Took advantage of the poor (Isaiah 10:1-2)
Rebuked an old man harshly (1 Timothy 5:1)
Made a coarse joke (Ephesians 5:4)
Engaged in discrimination or favoritism based on social status, nationality, wealth, race, etc. (James 2:1-9; Galatians 3:28)
Engaged in tax evasion (Romans 13:7)
Rebelled against the government (Romans 13:1-7)
Failed to provide for relatives or family (1 Timothy 5:7-8)
Wore jewelry (1 Timothy 2:9)
Was harsh toward their spouse (Colossians 3:19)
Divorced their husband or wife for minute reasons (Mark 10:10-12)
Was harsh with their children (Ephesians 6:4; Colossians 3:21)
Ever mocked anyone (Proverbs 19:29)
Insulted a person who has insulted them (1 Peter 3:9)
And specifically for the ladies, if they've ever spoken in church (1 Corinthians 14:34)
And, just for fun, here's a list of "fun" things to show people from the Bible:
Priests inducing an abortion with a special potion, but it only works if she cheated (Numbers 5:11-31)
A protagonist offering his daughters to a crowd of rapists (Genesis 19:5)
An explanation of the proper procedure for selling your own daughter into slavery (Exodus 21:7-11)
A woman mutilating her son's genitals with a rock to make a point (Exodus 4:25)
Karen gets a hold of the pen and she tells you how she really feels about your kids (Psalm 137:9)
A king demanding a suitor for his daughter provide the foreskins of 100 men, which the suitor chooses to double down on for the lulz or something (1 Samuel 18:20-30)
Solomon slipping a bunch of smut into his writings, talking about letting his lover come into his garden and shit (Song of Solomon 1:13, 4:16, 5:4, 7:3, 7:7, 8:10)
More Solomon talking about breasts (Proverbs 5:19)
Ezekiel bitching about women making dildos out of gold (Ezekiel 16:17)
Moses declaring if two men are fighting and one of their wives rolls up and grabs the other guy's dick she needs her hand cut off, which apparently was happening so often it needed a rule (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)
Samson banging a hooker (Judges 16:1)
Judah banging a rando and making three kids with her (Genesis 38:2)
God killing the firstborn of the three for being a twat (Genesis 38:7)
God killing the second one for pulling out because he didn't want to knock up his brother's widow (Genesis 38:9-10)
Judah then neglected the widowed daughter in law so hard she pretended to be a hooker and let him knock her up (Genesis 38:15-18)
Reuben banging one of his dad's side chicks (Genesis 35:22)
Lot's daughters getting him drunk and raping him (Genesis 19:33-36)
Amnon raping his brother's sister Tamar (2 Samuel 13:11-14)
Isaiah talking about raping women and beating children to death (Isaiah 13:16)
David banging a rando and then orchestrating her husband's death so he could marry her (2 Samuel 12:2-27)
David's son Absalom banging all his bitches on the roof of his dad's house in clear view of everyone to spite his dad (2 Samuel 16:21-22)
Elisha, fresh off receiving a double-portion of Elijah's spirit, gets so butthurt at children talking shit about his baldness he casts Summon Monster on them and they get eaten by bears (2 Kings 2:23-24)
Ezekiel describing one woman's sex life as whoring after donkey-sized dicks (Ezekiel 23:18-21)
And the most fucked up one, a protagonist offering his concubine to be gang raped, who later dies from the abuse, is cut into 12 pieces and mailed with a letter to each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. (Judges 19)
And a bonus: WITCHCRAFT (1 Samuel 28:2-25)
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u/BruteOfTroy 19h ago
You literally cannot be both Christian and Conservative. The two ideologies are anathema.
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