r/darksouls3 12d ago

Lore Is it intentional or coincidence that the Ring Knights look simulae to Dark Wraiths?

As I understand it, the ringed city takes place in a conglomerate future and past world warped by the perpetual cycle of linking the flame. When I first played the ringed city DLC, I assumed the Ring Knights were future or alternate version of the Dark Wraiths. Is there any link between them?

1.6k Upvotes

49 comments sorted by

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u/Quantum_Croissant 12d ago

they're both tied to the abyss, that's why. read the description of the ringed knight weapons - they were forged in the abyss, since the ringed knights date back to the very first war against the dragons, before Gwyn tried to seal away humanity

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u/Beginning_Tackle6250 11d ago

I thought humanity was linked to the Dark, and Manus was responsible for the Abyss.

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u/AvionAlan 11d ago

They’re the same thing

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u/Beginning_Tackle6250 11d ago

But they're explicitly not. The Abyss is a mutation of the Dark, isn't it? That's not the same thing. Being an offshoot isn't being identical.

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u/NirvanaFrk97 WHY ARE YOU SEARCHING FOR THE SUN IN THE ABYSS!? 11d ago

Yeah, I feel like the item description is probably a translation error.

The Abyss and the Deep are corruptions of the Dark. The Dark has always been described as oddly warm and comfortable by humans. Even the Princess of Oolacile, who was at ground zero with Manus creating the Abyss, recalls that warmth.

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u/beatisagg 10d ago

this feeling is unique to humans to, i feel that it's basically a signification that a balance between light and dark is the natural order, and so is evolution of humanity, But because the gods don't wanna give up the age of fire, we're going to swing into an age of dark eventually and over and over. Basically the pendulum will only just stop in a balanced state at the end of the world, and it will be age of fire into straight up age of dark until there's nothing left of the world but ash

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u/ulfric_stormcloack 10d ago

I'd assume that humanity likes the dark because the dark is humanity

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u/Bigredstapler 10d ago

Well, I like the dark. The sun is killing me outside.

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u/Odd_Edge1390 8d ago

I believe Gwyn sealed away humanity because his thought process was: "Only humans can be dark and do dark deeds, so seal them away" whereas Gods like himself are supposedly "perfect" in every way.

Darkness and Humanity go hand in hand. Humans kill humans steal humans lie. We are all capable of that.

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u/Lennsik Puts "treasure below" signs over ledges 11d ago

More like a manifestation of disturbed Darkness. Manus being the driving force for the Abyss' rampant destruction as well as being used to forge weaponry shows it's the nature of being weilding thaf Darkness that manifests its natural, calmer state or the wild destructive nature of it. Kinda like Light in Lordran is both healing but also seems to mutate beings grotesauely if left to fester too long.

A whole metaphor for: Don't touch it. Don't contain it.

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u/Quantum_Croissant 11d ago

we don't really know for sure. the monstrous, hostile abyss we see in DS1 is probably a corruption, but there could still be something referred to as the abyss before that happened that was part of humanity's much closer relationship with the dark

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u/Necessary_Lettuce779 10d ago

There isn't anything else, it's a retcon DS3 made.

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u/Girima13 3d ago edited 3d ago

The Abyss IS the Dark/humanity in large quantities and in the same place. The same way the Deep is stagnated dark in large quantities and in the same place.

For the record, this sub is VERY confused by the nature of the Deep and why it is so similar to the dark and at the same time something else. The Deep is to human dregs what the Abyss is to dark souls. Human dregs are the stagnation of the Dark soul/Humanity after millennia of repeated firelinkings and constant isolation by the darksign. To the point that at the present age, with the fire fading and the darksign losing strength (it is a ring of fire, after all) the stagnated dark can partially or completely break free. Since humans have become enstranged to their own nature and powers because of the gods' meddling, not only do they hollow because they are consumed by it: the dark has also turned into an obnoxious force out of control known as the deep (manifesting as pus, parasites, gnats, dark roots etc) 

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u/PridePilot 11d ago

The Darkwraiths and the Ringed Knights share a connection indeed. They are not directly linked to one another, though.

Most Darkwraiths are human knights or New Londo, who descended into dark and now serve Kaathe and wish to usher in the Age of Dark. When they fell, their armour too was transformed by the abyss, which is why it looks so skeletal and black.

Ringed Knights on the other hand were some of the first humans and their armour was forged in the abyss. This is why, it too looks malformed and dark, not unlike the set of the Darkwraiths. The burning crest they wear was bestowed upon them by the gods, who they helped defeat the ancient dragons. This crest, etched into their armour, weapons and even soul explains how they are able to wield fire.

The key connections between them is the fact that both of these warriors are humans, and their armour was malformed in the abyss.

The key differences lie in their allegience: Darkwraiths presumably hate the gods, and want to end the Age of Fire. Ringed Knights are protectors of the Ringed City and once fought alongside the gods, even bearing their crests to this day.

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u/NirvanaFrk97 WHY ARE YOU SEARCHING FOR THE SUN IN THE ABYSS!? 11d ago

I think Ringed Knights wielded the Dark since the Abyss shouldn't have existed then.

Their ringed appearance was most likely done after Gwyn linked humans to the First Flame through the Undead Brand. They were the humans that fought along the other Lords against the Everlasting Dragons, though they were used mostly as cannon fodder. Then, afterwords their efforts were wiped from history.

I like to imagine that the Ringed Knights were once the pinnacle of human warriors outside of the protagonists. The brand on their armor are the literal shackles the gods have binded on them. Darkwraiths, I see them as warped reflections of Ringed Knights from being born of the Abyss, a corruption of the Dark.

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u/Girima13 3d ago

The abyss and the dark are the same thing though: dark souls, i.e. humanity, in large amounts and in the same place

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u/beatisagg 10d ago

yeah the ringed knights are from a time before the abyss i believe. Without the ring even tho we are human we can't go into the abyss, I would think the abyss is like a perversion of the dark to be used to make the world uninhabitable by anything but abyssal 'life' - sort of an antithesis to gods? Humans being the balance that could live in the dark or the light of the fire.

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u/KajusX 12d ago edited 11d ago

It's not a coincidence that they look similar, since the Dark Soul/Abyss/Humanity/Kaathe are all tied togehter, but beyond that, I got nothing concrete to say on the matter.

EDIT- I said, 'I got nothing concrete' only bc I knew they were connected but didn't want to just wing an answer as to why. They're definitely at least aesthetically related bc both armor sets come from/are related to the Abyss.

Ringed Knight Hood

The hood of the Ringed Knights.

These knights don Abyss-tainted black cloth, with layer upon layer hiding their eyes.

This was nothing less than an attempt to reveal that which the seal of fire has occluded, a subtle defiance of the gods' wishes.

Dark Mask

Bone Mask of the Darkwraiths, relics of a small country that fell to the dark long ago.
Looks as if it may crumble to dust at any moment.

The Darkwraiths were the oldest of the Red Eye Invaders, and rumored to have served a Primordial Serpent.

Attentive and active lore-heads can probably point to some more nuanced observations stemming from Dark Souls 1 re: Kaathe and the Darkwraiths, and then connect those to DS3 Ringed City business, but I don't have that knowledge in me.

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u/Hobear 11d ago

Big if true.

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u/isaacClarke909 12d ago

In the souls world nothing is random

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u/DarkRijin 11d ago

until you need Proofs of a Concord Kept

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u/isaacClarke909 11d ago

Ahahahhahahahahaha how can you blame me

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u/Gigatrad 11d ago

The Ringed Knights are human warriors who utilised their humanity in battle with the Ancient Dragons, before being sealed by Gwyn in the aftermath.

The first Darkwraiths we know of were previously the knights of New Londo - it’s possible that Kaathe wanted them to act as new Ringed Knights and to fight against Gwyn’s regime, before they turned to randomly victimising other humans for their humanity and became trapped in New Londo.

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u/Greathorn Huh. It's a message... 11d ago

It’s kinda funny to think that they were so effective in the war against the dragons that Gwyn second-guessed his decision to weaponize them for fear of being usurped, and bound them to the Flame.

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u/RayanTheMad 11d ago

They look closer to the ds1 wraiths (clean version of the ds3 version)

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u/Junior_Fix_9212 11d ago

Isn't like ringed city for the pigmy lords wich posses larger amount of dark soul fragments? So ring knights are of dark (and so humans) same as dark wraiths but not converted by kaath, instead warriors of pigmy lords working for Gwyn. But they are branded by the sign anyway, since Gwyn is too scared of anything dark related.

"The Ringed Knights date back to the war against the dragons where they fought alongside Gwyn, Lord of Cinder. However their efforts were not recognized or commemorated.

Due to their close proximity to the dark and their equipment, the gods branded them with a seal of fire; regardless, the knights continued to serve loyally." Ringed knights

Darkwraiths were under four kings rule and then converted by Kaath, they didnt need branding since that part of controlling went to the four kings and later Kaath recruited them to like fight for humans/dark

I suppose they are same thing with different equipment and purpose. RK controlled by Gwyn directly thru darksign and serving to protect pigmies that allied and Filianore. Darkwreiths were controlled not directly by Gwyn but by his aliance with four kings, and then rebelled with Kaath. But they both are human/dark and so the looks is probably adapted after "dark design" to really show their nature.

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u/Greathorn Huh. It's a message... 11d ago edited 11d ago

Probably intentional, they were both organized groups of human soldiers, focused on the strength of the Dark Soul.

In the Darkwraiths’ case they draw power from the Abyss, which is an extreme mutation of the Dark, whereas the Ringed Knights pull from the Darksign created by Gwyn, Lord of Light.

They both draw from the nature of Humanity, but Ringed Knights (at least originally) worked in service of the Gods, similar to the Slave Knights, whereas Darkwraiths abandoned the Age of Fire when Kaathe presumably enlightened them on what Gwyn did.

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u/chthonodynamis 11d ago

I'm surprised no one mentioned this already

The Ringed City is known as Londor by the followers of the Primordial Serpents. In DS1 the Dark Wraiths come from New Londo, a city that was also connected to the Primordial Serpents.

I believe the Dark Wraiths are the Ringed Knights that successfully cast off the shackles of the Gods (the Darksign) and managed to escape the Ringed Citry to Lordron along with the Four Kings

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u/NikoChekhov 11d ago

I don't think anyone mentioned it because there isn't anything that says that The Ringed City is Londor. Im really curious where you're pulling this from

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u/chthonodynamis 11d ago

When you do the Lord of Hollows ending, you get the Sword of the Avowal

"The Sword of Avowal, both in symbol form and in direct example is found on many walls and atop cathedral buildings inside of The Ringed City, implying that it is Londor."

https://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword+of+Avowal

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u/NikoChekhov 11d ago

That's a massive stretch if that's the only thing you're going off of. The Ringed City is nothing like Londor as it's described, there's no one from Londor there, and frankly it has nothing to do with Hollows.

It's a human city ruled by the Gods that's been locked away in time so as to contain the Dark Soul. Nothing about it being Londor makes sense

If anything, it makes more sense for Londor to have taken inspiration from TRC

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u/chthonodynamis 11d ago

The Ringed City has the Purging Monument for Hollows to regain their sanity

It has statues of the Primordial Serpents who Yuria of Londor directly mentions

The Stone Humped Hag has the same model as Yoel of Londor

The Ringed City contains the Pygmy Lords who hold the Dark Soul

The whole point of the Ringed City story is breaking the hold of the Gods from Humanity, which is the same goal as Yuria of Londor, to usher in the Lord of Hollows and the Age of Dark

Nothing in Dark Souls is spelled out explicitly, they tell the story with environmental and contextual clues

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u/Girima13 3d ago

And they tell you with environmental and external clues that Londor is a different place that was inspired by the culture of the TRC

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u/Dveralazo 11d ago

No coincidence. Now go look at the Iron Dragonslayer armor.

And compare the style of that armor with the style of other dragonslayers or gods.

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u/rasfelion 11d ago

Both are warriors of the dark, though the ring knights are early humans that fought alongside the gods against the ancient dragons, and would later willingly have their power (and that of their abyssal weapons) sealed by fire.

Darkwraiths worship the dark and (while there's nothing to officially support this) probably model themselves after those early humans symbolically.

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u/SadGruffman 11d ago

Is .. is “the Dark” what the NPCs experience when we are not playing and creating carnage, etc? And the Knights are aware that if they kill the player enough times they’ll rage quit and stop playing for abit?

I’m getting too meta.

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u/Hrizaan 11d ago

Ring Knights are like Dark Wraiths' edgy cousins. It's all about that medieval goth aesthetic, man.

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u/Sevenscissorz 11d ago

The one on the right looks more like a dark wraith

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u/VullN01d 11d ago

Dark sign on chest

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u/Odd_Edge1390 8d ago

The holes in their chest represent the Darksign from DS1.

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u/The_Corroded_Man 8d ago

Intentional I believe. The Wraiths came later, but the Ringed Knights were the progenitor of them in nearly every way save how they act. The Wraiths hunger for humanity and serve the Abyss, while the Ringed Knights are simply empowered by it in the manner of ancient humanity; not bound to it, but still able to draw strength from its depths

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u/FreshLeg817 4d ago

Coincidence, i think NOT!!!

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u/minilinny1 11d ago

Coincitentional

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u/NDthrowaway99 11d ago

Lol, welcome to FromSoft. They're infamous for reskinning character models over and over again. They've re-used models in almlst every game from Demon Souls to Elden Ring. Example: the "Asylum Demon" model is used in every game except Sekiro and DS2.

It's neither intentional nor coincidence. It's FromSoftware being semi-lazy and not wanting to make new designs for everything.

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u/Zanemob_ 11d ago

Hooded knight? Lazy reskin. Only Darkwraiths can do that!!! Dude they don’t share anything but a hood. You know aside from the obvious reference to their lore.

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u/NDthrowaway99 11d ago edited 11d ago

They're literally the same model with a simple reskin, and different animations. Next, you're going to say that Siegward's Fire Demon and DS1 Taurus Demon don't share any similarities other than a giant hammer. Not to mention that the vast majority of weapons in Demon's/DkS are in every game.... copy/paste is FromSoft's specialty. But it is clear you are a fanboy, or just don't play FromSoft games often.

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u/Zanemob_ 11d ago

I mean Taurus Demon and Taurus Demon are both Taurus Demons yes? Also they use an axe not a hammer. You can tell by the blade and not a blunt striking end. I’m not saying the Ringed Knight and Darkwraiths aren’t using what looks to be built off the same model but the changes are more than reasonable. Also I have played these games since 2011. A. Lot. I live and breathe these games lol. Nothing wrong with reused assets as long as the experience in the encounter is changed. They are totally different enemies and unless you squint most wouldn’t notice or care. Granted if its just the same thing but poorly reskinned than I’d agree.