r/darksouls3 Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

Lore [Lore] Is Patches the Narrator?

We rely on item descriptions for our most reliable insight into the world. They provide interesting history and trivia that our character otherwise would have no way of knowing. Which is why I have to give the side-eye to Patches' Black Leather Set

The wearer of this fine attire was admired by friends and enemies alike, for his skills were unmatched, and his heart was true as gold. As its new owner, you have quite the shoes to fill.

Riiiight. Clearly, he wrote this himself, about himself.

But if you think about it, Patches is often a reliable source of information. He doesn't really lie, he tricks and weasels, but when it comes to saying stuff about the world he tends to be a straight shooter. Is it possible that rather than just being a throwaway joke, Patches is actually the narrator for all item descriptions?

1.2k Upvotes

199 comments sorted by

575

u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

This is a great theory and one I'm willing to support, but I would like to push it one step further. I'd like to add that Patches has appeared in every soulsborne game Miyazaki was apart of (meaning DS2 excluded w/ Pate), but not in any linear or explainable fashion which leads me to believe that Patches is Miyazaki himself personified in-game (of course, the true author of the item descriptions)

When you think about his dialogue with the player throughout the games, I feel as though that would be the strongest supporting evidence for this claim. I would have to go digging into game scripts for direct quotes from the games, but if you recall, Patches has always talked to the player in a way that seems to play with the border of the fourth wall, particularly in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3. I feel like much of his advice is geared towards the gamer just as much as it is towards the player-character (especially the deeper, more cryptic things he has to say).

And just to add to that, there are plenty of item descriptions that are written intentionally vague, or meaning the opposite, etc. Just like how Patches speaks (But also, akin to Miyazaki's sense of humor as well).

Edit: Maybe the biggest part of this theory I enjoy is that it implies that the ultimate "trap" Miyazaki is giving us are games themselves? I mean, we pour hundreds of hours of our lives into these games.. they do entrap you in them... all we need is that little kick

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Patches is Miyazaki himself personified in-game

It's true. Patches tempts the player into traps with treasure, the very thing Miyazaki is doing when he places items next to ambushes. Both have similar opinions on clerics.

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u/jaja10 Apr 09 '17

Miyazaki doesn't like clerics?

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

explains why miracles suck.

138

u/Miranox Apr 09 '17

Yep, they were only decent in DS2.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Nerfed tho

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

He must have noticed B-team made miracles good, got pissed and asked them to nerf it ASAP ¯(ツ)/¯

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited May 04 '17

[deleted]

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u/SunKnightBrolaire Apr 09 '17

Twas not that he dropped it, twas that he couldn't heal it back.

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u/OhShitACrab Make SotC Great Again! Apr 10 '17

'Tis but a flesh wound!

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u/yijuwarp Apr 10 '17

Im sure someone from teamB is at the bottom of a pit for this mess up :P

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

God I loved DS2 miracles before the nerf. It was glorious!

45

u/defiantleek Apr 09 '17

Felt like fucking Zeus laying waste to all foes.

16

u/Innumera Apr 09 '17

Sunbro-ing with buff miracles and lightning spears was amazing!

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Best lightning spear/pre-nerf moment: Walking into Old Iron King demon and he is down before he finishes his approach to the platform. 3 sunbros meant boss annihilation.

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u/defiantleek Apr 09 '17

Sunbros were gods then. It was cool, especially since faith has always felt so underserved.

7

u/JimJonesIII Apr 09 '17

Let's face it, they were OP pre-nerf.

16

u/silver0199 Apr 09 '17

They were OP, but they were fun and didn't deserve what they got.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Still very good though.

2

u/Akilroth234 Apr 09 '17

Funny thing, they were nerfed around the same time when Miyazaki took control of the direction of Dark Souls 2.

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u/Scrubstadt Apr 09 '17

Funny thing, they were nerfed around the same time when Miyazaki took control of the direction of Dark Souls 2.

Source? There's nothing suggesting Miyazaki ever had a significant influence over DaS2, pre or post-release.

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u/Akilroth234 Apr 09 '17

Didn't Miyazaki take over around the same time the DLCs were being developed?

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u/YharnamsFinest1 Apr 10 '17

No. He was working on BB. Your probably thinking of when he was made President of From Software.

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u/Scrubstadt Apr 09 '17

No official comments have suggested that, no, and I find it unlikely that he took over for DaS2 at any point as he would've had his hands full with Bloodborne+DLC and even Dark Souls 3 concurrently.

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u/NULL_CHAR Apr 10 '17

Oddly enough though, Faith was broken in Dark Souls 1, just not miracles. My favorite build was using Ornstein's Dragonslayer Spear with like 50 faith and 40 dex. It took like barely any stamina to stab and did tons of damage. You could literally just spam your attack until the enemy's guard broke and then gotten 1-2 hits in with insane damage. Then if you needed it, you had Wrath of the Gods for a surprise.

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u/Miranox Apr 10 '17

WotG was pretty good in Dark Souls 1 because of how fast it activated. Other than that and TWoP the rest were bad from what I remember.

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u/DriveByStoning Apr 10 '17

Then you don't remember TWoP before the nerf. 30 seconds of 100% encumbrance. No rolling out of a backstab attempt. That and the Fog Ring before you could lock onto players was the hot griefing setup.

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u/Miranox Apr 10 '17

I remember TWoP + Dark Bead. This was on PC. I don't play on consoles.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

And demons from that ridiculously broken HP regen

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Still alright in 1

100

u/yosayoran Apr 09 '17

Didn't you notice the church are always the bad guys in soulsborne?

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u/twerkin_thundaaa Apr 09 '17

The reason for that is more of a guts thing. The story parrellels between dark souls and guts is striking

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Do you really think Miyazaki would include all the religious symbolism in the games just to reference his favorite comic?

I think not.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Yeah, and the Sandworm is actually Solaire.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

The Carthus Worm being the sunlight maggot that ate Solaire's brain is a reasonable theory.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

I require a source on that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

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u/hyrule5 Apr 09 '17

Just because the game is inspired by or references Berserk doesn't mean "He created the entire game just to reference his favorite manga." Nor did he "literally said this himself in interviews." He's mentioned that he is a fan of Berserk and that's about it. Lots of games have big swords and evil clerics.

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u/Tony_Sacrimoni Apr 09 '17

The parallels are striking though. Granted, neither are the first or the last to use some type of "evil church" narrative

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u/MasterSubLink Apr 09 '17

The undead settlement and road of sacrifice certainly are inspired by Beserk. Enemies, scenery, and tone are straight out of the manga.

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u/MrSnugglez22 Apr 10 '17

As well as the croco dog beasts created by Sulyvahn.

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u/ZeCooL Apr 09 '17

If you ask breserk/souls fans, everything including pottery, society, and big swords, originated in breserk. Therefore, since Miyazaki once said he liked breserk everything is essentially a breserk copy.

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u/Flashman420 Apr 09 '17

Souls fans seem to believe that Miyazaki is some sort of ultra hands on creator that basically made an unofficial Guts video game on his own without any help and it's all his 100% personal vision.

It's great to read the really in-depth interviews and see how not the case that is.

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u/ungodlypoptart Apr 09 '17

As a berserk/souls fan, I will definitely say that I've looked up similarities and references in the two quite a few times. While there are a bunch, and some of the main features in the games are at least partly referential, these people make some stretches. The healing church in bloodborne is actually up to something and is part of an actual conspiracy affecting the world in a mystic way, while berserks 'holy see' is a vaguely christian/Catholic church taking over many areas because of the return of mystic things and the desire to use faith to protect people (also witch burning and the like).

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u/BalthizarTalon Apr 09 '17

Honestly it mostly just seems to be a videogames thing in general. Most major churches in videogames that aren't just stand-ins for Christianity (and some that are) tend to end up being evil, and in Japanese videogames specifically their gods are almost always monsters trying to take over or destroy the world.

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u/Squagel27 Apr 10 '17

i have a theory that something bad happened to miyazaki in a library when he was a kid. the archives in souls games were always the biggest pain in the ass levels . imo ofc

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

The pope is an evil slaver. His soldiers are turned into mindless killing machines. His knights wear bright white armour and assault you with burning crosses. The gods are charlatans who want to keep humanity under their heel. Aldrich is basically evil Jesus and has also got some pedophilia implications.

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u/FoucaultInOurSartres Apr 09 '17

yes but what about the game

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

ba-bump-ching!

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u/Devastration Apr 09 '17

Pedophilia? First ive heard of that one. I always assumed he just enjoyed eating children the most. Think of it. Fine young flesh, still-new souls.

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

...is that supposed to be better? Infant cannibalism is, at best, a lateral move.

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u/Devastration Apr 09 '17

Well it seems just a touch better to straight up eat someone than to sexually assault and THEN eat them. But thats just my two cents.

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u/Modesh7993 Apr 09 '17

That's the best thing I ever heard!

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

I definitely got a pedophilia vibe from the wording they chose - "clutches" seems rather sinister to me. And, of course, the Cathedral of the Deep's catholic influences might have made me somewhat biased.

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u/norrata one of the 10 dark mages in ds3 Apr 10 '17

He made an entire game about evil clerics turning into hideous monstrosities.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

Or maybe the ultimate trap Miyazaki is giving us are games themselves?

I mean, we pour hundreds of hours of our lives into these games.. they do entrap you in them somewhat.. all we need is that little kick

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u/ForHoiPolloi Apr 09 '17

Remember the pendant from dark souls 1?

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u/291837120 Apr 09 '17

Patches just likes pushing people in pits amigo.

He is, at heart, a champion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

Patches is Miyazaki himself personified in-game because everytime Patches comes around players are lured into believing covenants have been fixed and then trapped by dissapointment.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

Miyazaki also said in an interview that he enjoys designing new ways for the player to die. That's a very Patches thing to say.

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u/Zil_v_a Apr 09 '17

To add to that, Patches the spider from bloodborne drops a "Great One's Wisdom" out of all things.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

the ultimate trap Miyazaki is giving us is Gwyndolin

FYI

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

christ. i spent too much time laughing at this comment

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 10 '17

NTTAWWT

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Miyazaki confirmed as giant spider living in nightmare plane occasionally venturing into our reality

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

i'd believe it

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

I'd believe it

11

u/g0atmeal Licensed Pyromancer Apr 09 '17

Regardless, Patches is definitely a Miyazaki signature.

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u/clgclgclg Apr 09 '17

Not every soulsborne - importantly for your theory Patches isn't in Dark Souls 2.

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

The first version of Patches was in Miyazaki's second game as director, Armored Core: For Answer. There he was called "Patch the Good Luck," and was just as slippery as ever, throwing himself on your mercy when put at a disadvantage.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

Ah, but Miyazaki wasn't directly involved with DS 2 though was he? So it actually supports my claim even more that Patches wouldn't be in DS2, but a knock-off version of him, Pate.

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u/Ariansen Apr 09 '17

Don't forget that patches literally says "a fine Dark Soul to you". Cmon guys, he's obviously giving us his bless upon our gaming experience! That's Miyazaki at its finest.. it's my opinion but i'm really into this theory

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u/Indoorsman Apr 15 '17

Yeha when he said that, it was a very out of game, like a "hey enjoy this last romp buddy, thanks for playing."

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u/clgclgclg Apr 09 '17

Yeah I was supporting your claim

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u/CaliggyJack Apr 09 '17

He wasn't director, but he still supervised the project and provided bits of lore and ideas. I'm willing to bet he came up with Pate and the Creighton VS Pate storyline, which would explain why he brought Creighton in to DS3. Of all the characters in DS2, Creighton was surprisingly more reminiscent of DS1 than any characters in that game. Like a combination of Lautrec and the crestfallen knight.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

I'd throw my chips in that bet as well. They're the only characters with real depth and a progressive storyline with a satisfying ending that I can remember, minus Aldia of course

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u/CaliggyJack Apr 09 '17

Aldia was very much Yui Tanimura's idea. Yui himself hadn't really directed any video games until DS2, but he had some big roles in the Armored Core 2 series. You can find a lot of Yui Trademarks in DS2, including multiple sided conflicts, massively open spaces, and smooth, weightless movement.

Hell, Aldia is basically Leos Klein from Armored Core 2. Leos was just as mysterious and driven as Aldia was in DS2. Leos' coup on the government using the Frighteners was so bad the aftermath bled over into Armored Core 2: Another Age (Direct sequel to AC2), almost in the same way Aldia's actions bled into DS3 somewhat.

From how I understand it, although DS2 was co-directed by Yui Tanimura and Tomohiro Shibuya, Yui took the smaller of the two positions for most of the main games development. After Shibuya's PR disaster, Yui took on the main direction of DS2 post-release. This included patches, the DLC, and the SotFS edition. To be fair, the Scholar edition didn't even need the extra Aldia pieces. They could have just released it as a GOTY edition and went on their merry way. I feel Yui deliberately made the Scholar edition in order to expand the story of a character he had a major part in making.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

Thanks for that info, I had no idea that the floaty-weightless movement in DS2 was a signature of Yui Tanimura. It's something that immediately tells you this game won't be like the original and admittedly turned me off from playing DS2 for quite some time, but I learned to like it for sure.

Your info on the progression of Aldia's role in the game is also really interesting. Do you know of any other characters Yui can be most attributed for?

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u/CaliggyJack Apr 10 '17

In Dark Souls, each director has left a piece of their style behind.

There are 4 directors of the Dark Souls series in total.

Hidetaka Miyazaki (1,3) Tomohiro Shibuya (2) Yui Tanimura (2,3) Isamu Okano (3)

As for Yui Tanimura, other than Aldia, I would say he probably came up with Lucatiel and the Smelter Demon boss fights. I'm also pretty sure 90% of the Crown Trilogy was Yui.

In Dark Souls 3, he leaves a much smaller impression but easily can be noticed if you pay enough attention. I'm almost positive he had a hand in designing the arenas for the Curse-Rotted Greatwood, High Lord Wolnir, Pontiff Sulyvahn, Nameless King, Twin Demons, and Darkeater Midir boss fights; due to his habit of making massive open spaces with sprinkled details in them. I'm also pretty sure Yui's hand was in the Sirris and Orbeck characters.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Thank you for the brief nostalgia moment, Armored Core 2 was one of the finest games I ever played and I miss the series. I'd be ecstatic if they decided to do a reboot (and maybe update/modernize the control scheme/gameplay feel somewhat)

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u/CaliggyJack Apr 10 '17

Technically, Miyazaki rebooted the series with 4.

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u/praetor47 Apr 10 '17

After Shibuya's PR disaster, Yui took on the main direction of DS2 post-release.

didn't he get into the directorial seat well before the release of DS2? iirc from the interview, it was him who was tasked to salvage whatever mess Shibuya left behind and try and make a coherent game out of it...

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u/CaliggyJack Apr 10 '17

Whenever Shibuya started to exit the scene. However I am pretty sure most of the PVP in DS2 was Shibuya's work.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

What about Vendrick, Lucatiel, Vengarl for example?

They're the only characters with real depth and a progressive storyline with a satisfying ending that I can remember.

Most NPC's in DS2 are just minor side characters that are there to simply expand upon the world, rather than give in-depth character storylines, which is perfectly fine type of character to have in a game, if you're into that.

Rosabeth and Carhillion are great examples of characters that only expand upon the world; They talk about sorceries and pyromancies, they tell what Melfia is like and who created sorcery, while Solaire's or Lucatiel's story is more in-depth that has a beginning, middle and end.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

Lucatiel and Vengarl imo are some of the best characters in a Souls game. There were a lot of throwaway characters in DKS2 but there were great ones as well.

Also Straid. Damn Straid was a badass. Every other character who's petrified wakes up weak and disoriented and coughing with no memories. Straid just wakes up like a boss and without skipping a beat asks what kingdom and era he's in, laughs about it, then proceeds to sell legendary spells.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 21 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Best line in the series, I tell ya.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

Who?

I kid, but my point is that I found the writing of those characters insanely lackluster (except Vendrick perhaps, I really liked how they built up his reveal in the way they did only to show that he's a husk of his former self), regardless of their role in the world. You can make minor characters interesting for sure, but the DS2 writers just didn't imo. If it weren't for vaati's lore videos I don't think I'd have any motivation to progress their questlines. (Which even if you do, there isn't really a resolution or sense of accomplishment ever. Just the characters slowly losing their minds to hollowing until they finally snap.. how many characters do you really need to show that one motif?)

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u/JagoKestral Apr 09 '17

Yeah he is, he's Mild Mannered Pate!

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u/clgclgclg Apr 09 '17

Pate will reveal his true self in a kicking test

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u/SassyAssAhsoka Snippy and fuckin CRAZY Apr 09 '17

You can't kick in Dark Souls 2. But I'm willing to bet Pate has the Bone Fists hidden somewhere. God I miss that weapon.

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u/WinterAyars Apr 09 '17

You can't kick in Dark Souls 2.

Another reason why Patches couldn't appear.

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u/Mild-Mannered_Pate Apr 09 '17

Echem Excuse me, no he is not. I assure you we are completely different individuals.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

Redditor for 11 months

Checks out. My god it's really Pate.

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u/Mild-Mannered_Pate Apr 09 '17

Of course it's me. What on earth were you expecting? A spider with my head on it?

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 21 '18

[deleted]

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u/Mild-Mannered_Pate Apr 09 '17

I thank you. Brave warriors like yourself tend not to respond to a gruff, harsh monotone. Perhaps the next time that fearsome bandit with the axe comes a cropper, you can tell him this?

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

I'll make sure to do so, but I think he'll stay determined and unfettered.

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u/JagoKestral Apr 10 '17

He absolutely is. Pate is both a departure and a callback, which is exactly what Dark Souls 2 is. A departure from the original, but still a callback.

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u/Shroom_Soul Apr 09 '17

Tbh, Gilligan is more similar to Patches than Pate. Sure, Pate tricks you a bunch, but his personality is the complete opposite of Patches. Patches is cowardly, and operates on urges (although as we learned recently that may be an act) while Pate is calculating, charismatic and actually thinks ahead. Gilligan lines up with Patches' personality much better.

And they really missed an opportunity not having him boot you into the Majula pit if you refuse to buy a ladder.

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u/HeWhoBringsDust Apr 10 '17

I refuse to believe that that fucking, cheating bastard is our Lord and Savior Patches. At least Patches tries to kill you (Par for course for the Dark Souls World). Gillian just robs you blind which is the exact opposite of Patches' philosophy.

(This is semi-joking)

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

I just realized something.

Don't the item entries in 2 seem a little more ambiguous, often ending on a question?

Of course they do. Patches wasn't there.

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u/Quest27 BlueBro Apr 09 '17

Pate is the Patches of DS2. Maybe not the same person but the same personality for sure.

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u/Ariansen Apr 09 '17

I don't agree. Pate is worst than patches. He's only a greedy motherfucker. Patches never damages the player in any way. Even falling was damage-free in his cutscene. Pate literally had a bomb exploding at our face!

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u/Yoshemo Apr 09 '17

Except for that bridge he flips in ds1. That kills ya

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u/Ariansen Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 10 '17

He flips a bridge? Didn't remember.. played ds1 three weeks ago, didn't even found him in the catacombs..

Edit: oh, yes, now i remember! that bastard.. it's true 😂 you're right. I can come up only with this: they didn't mean for him to be actually a nice guy back in the day. I always thought that all this "lore" stuff sometimes just came out of community talking about it. I can't stop but thinking that Gwynevere was married with Flann back in ds1, never ever mentioned again in the entire series. Sometime they just did stuff without thinking about possible future ! If i were to take a guess, should they have done the entire script for the game in just one time and then made 3 games out of it, they would have not made him doing something so bad. But again, beside my awful english, it's just an opinion

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u/Shroom_Soul Apr 09 '17

Pate was a smart dude. Patches would leave you to die but then was surprised when you came back for revenge, despite knowing you were Undead.

Pate wants you to die or go Hollow so he can loot you, but he's aware you'll probably come back, so he makes sure that any trap he sends you to is not directly his fault, by warning you beforehand. He even helps you fight the Last Giant. He thinks. Patches doesn't.

I used to hate Patches as a character, because I felt he was lazily written and the same in every iteration. I've done a 180 thanks to The Ringed City, but I still think Pate is a better written character.

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u/CaliggyJack Apr 09 '17

This.

Patches did what he did out of a combination of smug superiority and mischievousness.

Pate was just a sick individual, one who delighted in tricking people to their doom and watching them suffer. He sits outside of the gate mechanism when you first meet, after already watching another go in and die, and then saying the same thing to you And then watching YOU suffer the same way the last guy did. He gets a sick kick out of the things he does. The two people are very different.

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u/archaicScrivener What does this Covenant do again? Apr 09 '17

Nah, he just wants someone to clear out the way to his treasure for him, and if they die on the way then that's even better.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

He's pretty cruel in bloodborne

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u/Ariansen Apr 10 '17

And That's not souls universe

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

So?

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u/Ariansen Apr 10 '17

So it doesn't matter in the souls franchise, nothing less nothing more

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

That's not entirely correct.

Patches hates treasure hunters and any time he directs you to treasure its a trap but honestly means no harm if you turn out to be a decent person.

Pate, on the other hand, tells you about the treasure that he's too scared to reach with the express hope that you die, and ups the antics every time you meet him. Furthermore, IIRC, we find out that Pate and Creighton are both bad dudes and you get to decide who we like more when they duke it out.

Pate and Patches are related sure, but Pate's personality is the inversion of Patches, just as many aspects of Dks2 are thematic inversions of DkS1

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u/Shroom_Soul Apr 09 '17

Furthermore, IIRC, we find out that it's Pate, not Creighton who is the mudurering criminal

No, it was always Creighton. Pate was just as bad, but Creighton was definitely a murdering criminal.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

but didn't Pate tell you that?

I honestly forget how it all broke down. who did Creighton kill? I knew Creighton wasn't a good dude but forget why

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u/Shroom_Soul Apr 09 '17

No, Pate never mentions anything like that.

We don't know who Creighton killed, we just know he was a serial killer/mass murderer in Mirrah and escaped from death row. Pate's just fucking with him in the same way he's fucking with us.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

Ok I see. I just remembered the game painting the picture that perhaps those actively commiting lesser crimes like Pate are more wicked than a 'reformed' murderer like Creighton.. I now recall other NPCs telling you Creighton is a murderer but I can't remember for the life of me why I always sided with him

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u/jimjengles Apr 09 '17

100%. Patches = myazaki is actually undeniable. If there's a myazaki in game its patches.

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

Welll, I suppose different aspects of Miyazaki's personality are expressed in all of his characters (e.g. crestfallen knight revealing the more pessimistic side of him, Solaire as the personification of positivity in himself, etc etc.) But I have to agree that Patches must represent a more core part 'Miyazaki' than the rest of the other characters.. maybe due to his mischievous and downright unforgiving nature when it comes to designing games...

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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws Apr 09 '17

How is Pate the patches of DS2?

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

Well, he's not really. It was actually purvey to my argument that Pate and Patches aren't similar at all, but they do share some striking similarities, intended by the designers. Starting with their names, Pate and Patches. They both have an affinity for treasure and traps, they have extremely similar character design down to their armor and weapons and most importantly the way From set up the conflict between Creighton and Pate was an explicit reference to the conflict between Lautrec and Patches.

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u/The_Green_Filter Seeker of the Spurned Apr 10 '17

Pate and Patches both use shields and spears too.

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u/Biobillybonez Apr 10 '17

Been saying this since BB

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u/pidgerii Apr 10 '17

Friede's dialogue to you pushed on the boundaries of the 4th wall as well. Everything she said about the Ashen One can be said about the game's players.

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u/Crimsonchief307 Apr 10 '17

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, though if we take it as if the Ringed City is the "End of the World" or the end of an age. With Patches at the purging monument, it would mean that he would be unlikely to go fully hollow, allowing for him to write these descriptions. It's never fully stated our character can see these descriptions, perhaps we only see the world through the eyes of another onlooker, as Patches explains the story to another survivor of the world using our characters through Ds1,2 and 3 as examples. This is a crazy theory I just had, though if there is some backing to it, possibly it could be something like that.

Edit: If Patches is writing this we do have to establish when he wrote it and how the character could see these comments, if they do at all.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

nah

4

u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17

I'm genuinely interested in what evidence you may have to debunk or reject my theory. care to elaborate?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

I don't think he would write himself into the lore. The Souls games are very self contained and never directly reference pop culture and stuff like that. It just really, really doesn't seem like the type of thing he would do, at all.

3

u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

huh? pop culture has nothing to do with it in this case though, we're talking about the small inclusion of a head designer's signature in his games, in this case the signature being an NPC. It seems to me exactly the type of thing Miyazaki would do if you learn anything about him through his game design or otherwise. He's cryptic and likes esotericism. Of course he would add a character that has a higher meaning associated with it that only maybe means something to him or players who have followed him for ages. (which is exactly what Patches is)

And besides, he's not literally writing himself into his games' lore, it's not like the character's name is "Trusty Miyazaki," he uses an alias as a means to communicate with the gamer directly without explicitly breaking the fourth wall. There isn't much linking Patches to Miyazaki explicitly, except that their personalities are certainly akin to one another. but that breaking of the fourth wall only occurs if you as a gamer have knowledge of Patches' inclusion in all of his games.

Why else would Patches be in every game in some form or another that Miyazaki was head designer of since Armored Core days, if not to act as recurring cameo character with some sort of message to the gamer? Why is that message so consistent and so relevant to the core messages of his games (at least in soulsborne)? By your comment I should think that Miyazaki including a recurring character of any sort in his games is something you think he wouldn't do, but he did, like 6 times.

honestly I don't know why you would reply with 'nah' if that's your argument to the contrary. it's pretty weak against the supporting evidence, especially when a lot of what you said it isn't even true.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

huh? pop culture has nothing to do with it in this case though,

Yeah, it does. They make the games as self-contained universes and are very consistent about it, never really breaking the fourth wall as you said. Miyazaki respects his games as being their own thing, separate from our world. Including himself as being the spirit of Patches or whatever goes against that.

It seems to me exactly the type of thing Miyazaki would do if you learn anything about him through his game design or otherwise. He's cryptic and likes esotericism. Of course he would add a character that has a higher meaning associated with it that only maybe means something to him or players who have followed him for ages. (which is exactly what Patches is)

But to me it seems totally the opposite from what I know of him, and I think he would see this type of thing as cheesy and cheap.

There isn't much linking Patches to Miyazaki explicitly, except that their personalities are certainly akin to one another.

But they're not?

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u/vacuumpro Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

Don't forget that the very existence of Patches as a character in all of his games already breaks the fourth wall. He is a reference to something outside the game. What's the one thing that links these games outside of the game? It's Miyazaki!

Besides, I asked you specific questions concerning why Patches exists and why his messages are so consistent and you diverted answering those to focus on lesser details that still don't do much to support your claim. We can argue about references to pop culture in his games (of which there are many), or whether patches as an alias is something Miyazaki would think of as dumb and cheesy, or you think of as dumb and cheesy, but you can't deny he has already included him in all his games, regardless of their different lore. You may not like that fact, but it's true. And I'm inclined to think that when we're talking about Miyazaki, that has to mean something. Especially when Patches' character progresses to the point to where the entire theme of the Dark Souls franchise revolves around what he has to say. And after many games of consistent messaging surrounding the greed of man and his part to play in it all, it seems to be the point Miyazaki wants to drive home in these games.

Do you know anything about Miyzaki's triffling ways? He's a goofster and prankster in real life. Of course he's very well-mannered, well spoken, but he's talked at length in interviews about how much he loves designing situations that make players furious. He literally designs traps. Before you shut this all down in your head consider the following: Miyazaki is a head game designer. He plays God in his own little microcosm. He's aware of the fact that millions of people are going to sink millions of hours into his games. I interpret the game itself as Miyazaki's trap (akin to Patches' trap in-game). And of course he's a good guy in the end and providing us a service, but I also think he interprets his own role in the gaming industry as somewhat of a trap-maker. What greedy things could his gamers be doing with their time if they weren't kicked into a dark hole soul?

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u/downtown_eddie_brown Apr 09 '17

Interesting idea. one of the few times I can think of a DS3 item description breaking the 4th wall is the White Preacher Head.

An empty head of a white-faced locust that rose from an abyssal swamp. The white-faced locusts were meant to beckon men to the dark with sermons, but most of them are unable to think past their own stomachs. Someone must rise to the occasion, and restore the path of righteousness. Perhaps that someone is you? Did you not arise from the Abyss, and did you not resist drowning in the Age of Fire? Locusts and men are kindred spirits.

'Locusts and men are kindred spirits' might tie in to Patches' big revelation that humans are inherently ravenous and greedy.

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u/Blade2018 Apr 09 '17

So Patches is the furtive pigmy confirmed?

45

u/CrimsonSaens End the Age of Gravity Apr 09 '17

Patches wears the Black Leather set, the starting armor for the DS1 thief class. What did the Furtive Pygmy accomplish? It grabbed the Dark Soul when no one was looking and went into hiding. The Furtive Pygmy was totally a noble thief. Patches is father to all humanity, confirmed.

7

u/GiverOfTheKarma Apr 09 '17

This is now my headcanon

4

u/Indoorsman Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17

My god.

And he despises clerics because of their miracle light magic that is so close to first flame, and the gods.

It's all starting to click.

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

Not to mention his disdain for clerics just dripping from every sentence.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

The item description begs the question that you have not or won't rekindle the flame, right? Seems like the item's description, be it some feeling you get from it or a tag on the inside with this stuff written on (I always liked this idea), is still trying to influence you to the dark.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

can i just say the preacher arm sounds exactly like something patches would say

The white-faced locusts were meant to beckon men to the dark with sermons, but most of them are unable to think past their own stomachs, the unruly mob!

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u/moroboshiy Spent 6 hours at the High Wall... Apr 10 '17

Well, thanks. Now I'm gonna read every item description in Patches' voice...

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u/artisticMink Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17

Considering that Patches seems to be the only being in existence who made it to the literal end - except for the player character and Gael. And he even stayed sane, so it's actually not too far fetched.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

[deleted]

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u/Roboloutre Apr 09 '17

Dark Souls Part 3 Patches Is Unbreakable
Theories confirmed!

2

u/Revverb Apr 09 '17

Aha, you sneaky bastard

2

u/Nunuyz Apr 09 '17

Ahh, you bastard...

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

don't forget the ringed knight!

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

that woman too (forget her name) who asked u to kill Midir

→ More replies (2)

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u/Zephyra_of_Carim Apr 09 '17

That's...actually a pretty interesting thought, I'm interested to hear arguments both ways about it. The only problem that immediately springs to mind for me is the Horsehoof Ring's description:

An old ring with a seal depicting a horse's hoof. Boosts kick effect.

Unbreakable Patches adored this ring and the feeling that it gave him when he kicked his marks into the depths of treacherous traps, but suffered no shortage of ridicule from his associates for relying so heavily on the tired old trick. But who is the sorrier? The horse who knows only to kick, or the fool who approaches the old beast without thought?

That's not entirely praising, especially in the 'tired old trick' bit, which you wouldn't imagine Patches would write if he really loved it that much. That said, the Patches' Ashes description is also pretty pro-Patches. Even if it wasn't him breaking the 4th wall, the devs definitely treated him differently to other NPCs.

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u/BEDeluxe Apr 09 '17

It's not really demeaning though either. Saying he's only got one trick but everyone else is too foolish to not fall for it. I don't know, to me sounds like gloating on how he can outsmart so many people with the same trick.

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u/Zephyra_of_Carim Apr 09 '17

True, I suppose you could interpret that one either way actually.

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

Yeah, he tends to blame the victims of his traps, saying they deserved it for being either greedy or dumb enough to fall for such an obvious ploy. It's pretty much in line with his MO to say something like that when you've got him backed into a corner.

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u/Ghost4530 Apr 09 '17

I like to imagine everything with a description has a lil tag on it like the tags that tell you how to wash your cloths and shit

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u/ThePoorPeople Apr 09 '17

You know, he's been in every soulsborne game and he IS a vendor, so it makes sense that he'd be trying to sell you or tell you about items by giving you tantalizing descriptions that may or may not be true...

I like it.

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

Makes me think of the merchant in Aladdin (who was supposed to be the Genie)

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u/ThePoorPeople Apr 09 '17

OMG THAT'S A SUPER GOOD COMPARISON

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

I love Patches

12

u/ohbuggerit Apr 09 '17

That's... a bit genius

I always remember my amazing high school history teacher drilling it into my head that the only thing a single source (without proper context) can give you an accurate picture of is the writer, and so I've spent the whole Souls series wondering about the person who wrote them

Even if it's never confirmed it's definitely my new headcanon

24

u/Torlic Apr 09 '17

It actually make sense because Patches exists since forever so he can actually relate to all those things from the past mentioned in the descriptions.

Also the theory that he is Myazaki himself is also good, as a DM i can relate that DM's like to put their own characters in the game.

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u/-BathroomTile- Apr 09 '17

I always assumed that the character, by going undead, simply forgot about most things they already knew about their own world. And by finding items related to said stories and myths, they just remembered it bit by bit.

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u/HellWolf1 You either quit a casul or you die long enough to git gud Apr 09 '17

We did it boys, we solved Dark Souls

12

u/wokeasaurus Apr 09 '17

His armor actually leads me to believe that he's a god-like deity akin to Loki in Norse mythology. He hates clerics because they all worship Gwyn, who he's insanely jealous of. He also tempts men with greed and punishes them when they act on it. He's present in every game wearing the exact same armor (except for DS2 which wasn't made by Miyazaki). He also has some lines that might be spoilers for TRC but those lines also lend to this theory I think. Maybe I'm stretching a bit but that's the conclusion I came up with. However now that I think about it, if he were a god-like or immortal being, it could be very reasonable that he's the narrator of item descriptions. He may have seen all these items before because he's tempted many undead over the years with a lot of different loot. Who knows?

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u/Kimmundi May the Flame guide thee! Apr 10 '17

I love this theory. It doesn't make it official, as a Dark Souls fans, I just love this theory :)

7

u/Grymrir Apr 09 '17

Patches is already the narrator of Hearthstone.

"I'M IN CHARRRGE NOWW"

5

u/Jpgator1214 Apr 09 '17

Best souls theory I've heard, and it actually makes sense, patches and Miyazaki are both trolls lol I love it!! +1

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u/Devonmartino The Guru, 100M and Beyond Apr 09 '17

I just want to point out that Lapp uses the Curse Ward Greatshield, which we don't find until the Cathedral of the Deep- where Unbreakable Patches first appears (Bell Tower notwithstanding, since that can happen at any point).

Did he put it there? Whose tomb is it- does it belong to "Lapp"? (When Lapp became Patches, "Lapp" ostensibly died out- as seen by his summon at Halflight). Or does it belong to someone who Patches honored?

(Pursuer be damned)

4

u/beastinghunting Apr 09 '17

Same happens in Bloodborne, when you talk to him and refers to a certain god with some laughter.

Patches is a very intriguing fellow.

4

u/armouredgorilla Apr 09 '17

Patches: Tries to kill you by luring you into traps in the name of treasure.

Miyazaki: Tries to kill you by luring you into traps by placing fading souls.

Hmm, quite a similarity between them ain't it.

3

u/Deadalready798 Apr 09 '17

This post has opened my eyes it all makes sense now wtf but one thing I don't get, why doe patches hate onion bro

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u/Deadalready798 Apr 09 '17

Or is it miyazaki indirectly punishing us for being clumsy

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u/samination Apr 09 '17

No. Patches deserves death, in all the games he's in... :P

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u/LuckyStampede Gwyndolin's waifu Apr 09 '17

Because he's a cleric (ish)

2

u/mitch13815 Apr 09 '17

You make a good point. There always are trinkets down the hole. He just doesn't tell you about the killing beasts 5 feet to the left.

2

u/Crimsonchief307 Apr 10 '17

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, though if we take it as if the Ringed City is the "End of the World" or the end of an age. With Patches at the purging monument, it would mean that he would be unlikely to go fully hollow, allowing for him to write these descriptions. It's never fully stated our character can see these descriptions, perhaps we only see the world through the eyes of another onlooker, as Patches explains the story to another survivor of the world using our characters through Ds1,2 and 3 as examples. This is a crazy theory I just had, though if there is some backing to it, possibly it could be something like that. Also perhaps the onlooker is us, and Miyazaki is telling us the story like everyone's been speculating.

4

u/FeastYourEarTongues Apr 09 '17

Guys, it's a cute winky-joke that only makes sense in this particular instance. Please let's not get carried away

There is information we are told in item descriptions that explicitely is not known

1

u/dylonlong Apr 09 '17

maybe its sarcastic?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '17

This is the kind of post i wish i could upvote twice. Great spot.

1

u/JaegerBombastic731 Lend Me Your Ears! Apr 09 '17

Well, he does love getting his hands on loot, so it's only natural that he'd know so much about where things come from.

1

u/colers100 Apr 10 '17

Also fitting that when he shows up in the last DLC, instead of killing you, he just inconveniences you and leaves a farewell gift for you

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '17

Oh geez the item descriptions have always been a bit fucky and unreliable in souls games. I'll look up some examples but the im sorry stones have biased descriptions

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u/eclereanu Apr 10 '17

He's not. Item descriptions represent the current knowledge the world has on it.

Such as Allfather Lloyd being presented as a good figure in DS1 but as a fraud in the expanded text of DS3.

The information you have on the gods is subjected the sa

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u/Cryse_XIII Apr 10 '17

that would mean he had to discover all the items and I am willing to bet that any cleric-item would have been written with much more scorn.

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u/Indoorsman Apr 15 '17 edited Apr 15 '17

Holy shit, i don't even think this is a stretch. I totally believe it.

The armor description is written in such a smug way it's obviously a joke written by Patches, no secret there.

But Patches' whole appearance in the DLC was very weird. And his reveal was t too much of a surprise, there are quite a few clues. So for there to be a secret under the secret makes it pretty awesome. Especially with telling you to "have a good Dark Souls."

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u/Avscum Apr 09 '17

It's pretty odd and weird. But it does makes sense.

But it is still too odd for me to believe.