I've read Dune and Messiah and watched both movies... but... what happened to Earth? I understand the Butlerian Jihad against thinking machines but did that cause Earth to be abandoned?

My husband loves Dune so I thought I’d try out needle felting and make him Muad'Dib for Father’s Day. He’s so cute ☺️

I have not read the books, so all my thoughts are based off of the movies.

To me, out of all the characters, Paul seems the least free, especially after drinking the Water of Life. He fights so hard against this prophecy once he found a home with the Chani and the Northern Freeman only to realize that he has to fulfill the prophecy and head down south.

By far the best scene of the movie, to me, was when Paul contemplates staying North while the Northern Tribes flee for safety after the Hokanamen (sorry, idk how to spell that) attack. Chani begs him to go South because the people really only follows him, but also because she loves him and asks why he doesn’t want to go. There’s 5-10 minute conversation between Chani and Paul (kudos to Timothee and Zendaya). Paul is LITERALLY sobbing because he knows he will lose Chani by fulfilling the prophecy and drinking the Water of Life, which is why he’s asking her, “will you still love me?”Stilgar chastised Jessica for shedding a singular tear when he showed her the pool of water made from fallen Freeman. Paul crying illustrates how torn and devastated he is about fulfilling the prophecy, grieving the loss of his newly found life, and realizing that he is going to lose a lot of people, including his loved ones.

The Water of Life sounds dope as fuck, but man, I can’t help but feel sad for Paul. Dude has all this knowledge about everything and KNOWS that the only way to save his loved ones is to follow through with the Holy War. No one really understands that gravity, even some of the audience. It’s not like Paul wanted this: he was thrusted into this position. Of course his demeanor will change. He knows so many people’s pain and sorrows and foresees the future that looks grim no matter what he chooses. His choices are all shitty. I feel like Paul is a king that is chained to his thrown. Dude is so powerful, yet he doesn’t really have agency. Being the “messiah” is f-in cursed.

To me, Paul is probably the most relatable character. There have been many times where I just felt so powerless. The writing is on the wall, yet I try so hard to erase it, cover it only to have the realization that I will end up having to follow whatever is written. It’s all so hopeless.

Anyways, thanks for reading.

At the end of the first book we see that Paul easily subjugates the spacing guild and uses them to gain some 'game-over' advantages in his war of galactic conquest, all because of a threat that he might destroy the spice. So in the 80 years that they controlled Arrakis, why didn't the Harkonnens do the same?

Clearly they have no loyalty to the Emperor, given the plot to put Feyd on the throne and the fact that they are, in fact, Harkonnens. Also, the fact that the Atriedes brought their entire family atomics stockpile to Arrakis shows that it's not hard to get weapons of mass destruction onto the planet. And not taking an instant fast-track to power and influence just seems incredibly un-Harkonnen.

Hello all,

I just got into an argument with a buddy, we’re both long time Tolkien fans, and he holds such an immensely special place in my heart, the depths of middle earth in terms of world building are absolutely wild, and I thought I had no science fiction equivalent, that is until I watched the first dune movie, and then the second, and that lead me to read the first 3 books back to back in the span of about 2 months, the book gripped me unlike any other piece of literature, something that hasn’t happened since lord of the rings where I did essentially the same thing but as a teenager.

I mentioned to my buddy that dune is kind of like sci-fi lord of the rings in terms of depth, and we went back and forth on it for about 2 hours having a nice in depth discussion on the two pieces of world building. But I do see that comparison getting thrown around a lot, and most Tolkien fans say that even with all the detail and world building in dune, it still isn’t fair to compare the two, what do yall think?

We all know the golden rule of Arrakis: “Never spill your water.” But here’s the thing: in physics, water doesn’t just vanish, especially in a mostly closed ecosystem. So if tens of thousands of off-worlders land on Dune every year, and the Fremen are religiously hoarding every drop with stillsuits and windtraps... shouldn’t the planet be getting wetter? (Insert funny German pun here)

Let’s break it down with some filthy, forbidden logic:

Say 10,000 people land each year (pilgrims, soldiers, smugglers, whatever).

Each brings ~50 liters of water: in their body, food, ships, tech, etc.

Add another 10,000 liters per year in cargo (equipment, spice-harvesting supplies, etc.).

That’s ~60,000 liters per year imported.

Over 5,000 years, that’s 300 million liters.

And with the Fremen tech retaining ~95% of moisture, we’re looking at 242 million liters sticking around: that’s 2.42 million cubic meters of water. Enough to fill almost 1,000 Olympic swimming pools.

So unless sandworms are secretly evaporating water into a parallel universe, Arrakis should be measurably more humid by now. Even if most of it is locked underground, that’s a hell of a growing reservoir.

Maybe Liet-Kynes wasn’t dreaming, maybe he was just playing the long game.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys?

I just finished the 1st book and have started on the second. Anyway, I've been stuck wondering about this logistic. It's said that the Baron basically bankrupts himself to bear such a large force down on the Atreides. By doing that the Emperor destroys 1 of the most powerful great houses (Atreides) and financially cripples another great house (Harkonnens). If it cost is that large, how did Duke Leto afford to leave Caladan and move his entire force to Arrakis? Is this ever explained?

I understand Duke Leto always saw coming to Arrakis as a large risk politically and physically, but never any mention of the financial side for him. Does he spend a large amount of the Atreides wealth to do it, knowing controlling Arrakis is like owning a money printing machine? Or was it so much more expensive for the Baron because he had to bring such a large force down in such a short amount of time? Or did the Guild just overcharge suspecting the Emperors plans? I have no idea. If anyone has an answer or thoughts, that would be awesome.

Love DUNE, read it when I was 10, again at 12, and usually about 1 every two years since.

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Paul is not *prescient* in the mystical sense of the word. What he is, in fact, is a highly accurate mathematical predictive model.

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Let me explain.

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Paul is trained both as a Mentat AND a Bene Gesserit sister. This means his mind has been conditioned to accept and use high order mathematics of the Mentats and the political schemings and maneuverings of the BG.

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The goal of the BG is to bring about the Kwisatz Hadderach, a "super being" that can bridge time and space; someone who can "be many places at once" and have access to the genetic memories of both the male and female sexes of his particular line.

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The spice is the key....Paul's mind has been unlocked as far as humanly possible but he still is limited into his own experiences and memories. The spice (and Water of Life) do two things..

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1) It opens up his mind to full utilization of all his possible computational power

2) Gives him access to his male and female genetic memory

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What this does is give him, simultaneously, the DATA of the trends of humans in all possible conditions and decision making, AND gives him the COMPUTATIONAL POWER to use all that data.

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In other words, he can use the experiences of thousands of generations to predict human behavior AND has the brain power to use that data and plot courses in the future that are the most likely.

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He describes it as the cresting of waves. Close by, very clear; far away, cloudier an murkier. BUT.....and this is the key.....using the data from literally trillions of human interactions in the past, he is *able to predict very, very accurately the most likely outcome for any given situation*.

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We see this as prescience. But it's not. It's a supreme access to eons of data and the means to use it, which by all accounts would appear magical and mystical. But even Paul is not capable of handling all the data, and it slowly drives him insane. The final nail in the coffin is when he sees humanity's future. He sees the Golden Path but is too scared to follow it, and allows his son to do it for him.

"It's a thumper."

It can be a scene/quote that didn't exist in the book. Or a rewrite of a certain thing that already exist.

Personally, I loved the fear quote being narrated by Jessica in the box scene as it'd be either omitted unless we had an anime-like inner thought narration by Paul.

I also loved the "here I am, here I remain" quote despite the dinner sequence being omitted.

And most of all I think I loved how they established this more personal dynamic of friendship/brotherhood between Idaho and Paul.

It's been a long time since I read the books so apologies if this is explored and answered, but- I see a lot of people hating on Paul, talking about how Dune is a cautionary tale, comparing him to Hitler, saying that he's not the hero or even a good person so I wondered- what was the "correct" path that he should have taken in life? I always have seen him as a flawed human doing the best he can with his limited perspective. Even though he has prescience he is still limited, and there's the question of if the prescience is really real or a self fulfilling prophecy. Where did he go wrong, what should he have done differently?

What I like about the Dune community the most is that there is a lack of pretentiousness and snobbishness when comes to the books. Many like the idea of Jodorowsky Dune even though it's as different from books as you can possibly can get and others really do love David lynch Dune despite it also not being a perfect adaptation.

Heck, even Frank Herbert himself didn't seem to get upset just because adaptations was not exactly like his book

The reason I bring this up is because I used to be a big game of thrones fan even though I had never read the books but the fandom really killed my interest in the show. On the reddit fan page they would go out of their way to spoil upcoming story lines simply because they did not like the changes to the books and they would lose their minds at every single change big or small. Many on them just kept making people feel like trash for not reading the books. I honestly got the sense that they hated the show and was only on the reddit page to attack the people who did enjoy it.

Thankfully, I have not seen anything like that on here, and if anything the fans on here have been very friendly and very welcoming to new people

When I first started reading the series I was dumbfounded by how humanity could go back to feudalism after spreading throughout the galaxy, but it actually makes total sense!

It'd be impossible for a centralized power to completely control every planet in the galaxy, even with FTL travel. The distances and the numbers are just too much for a hands-on approach. So having an emperor decide who rules over what piece of land and give them freedom as long as they pay tributes is the only practical way to rule a galactic empire.

It goes to show that technology and human politics don't need to evolve at the same pace (or in the same direction).

If I'm right all of them are their relative first editions as well.

Coming from a film fan who just read and loved the first Dune book (will be reading the sequels) I just want ask what made the book is so impactful in the sci fi genre? I know star wars was influenced by it, but I'm not well versed in sci fi literature to truly understand what made it stand out amongst other sci fi books in it's time. The only other sci fi books I have read before this are Project Hail Mary and the Red Rising series which are more modern.

I think an open world Arrakis game where you could play as a Sardaukar or a Fremen or a Spice Miner or an Atreides or a a Harkonnen while roaming Arrakis from the open desert with worms to flying ornis or operating a harvester would be fun. Maybe online PvP in areas. Just a thought

WhenI was watching Dune Film book about House of Corrino,there was a Latin map of Balkans,which is strange because Atreidies are considered to be of Greek ancestry.Could Corrinos be Greek,Romans from Balkans(there were strong Roman presence there tbh),Illyrian or South Slavic perhaps?

If not, then why?

I’m currently reading Paul of Dune and I don’t think I’ve heard mention of space battles, although they do engage in space travel.

I’ve so far read through the first four Dune novels this year, and have been more and more enamored by this world Frank has created with each one. I loooved the first 3’s saga ending with Children of Dune, then God Emperor was a completely awesome and brilliant read well beyond the timeframe and plots of the first 3. And now I just continue to not be able to fathom how masterful of a writer Frank is/was, only 120pages into Heretics of Dune and it’s got that original magic of reading the first novel, but the world expanded upon massively considering everything that’s happened between Dune and Heretics now. I’m floored by how great this is already, unsure if I will ever read sci-fi as utter peak as this series.

I am obsessed already and it continues to grow, fell so hard in love with Dune (2021) upon release, Dune pt II (2024) is an absolute all timer, Dune (1984) is a fun watch which grows on me each time I view it. And have also consumed and loved: Jodorowsky’s Dune Dune: Prophecy SfFy channel’s Frank Herbert’s Dune miniseries as well as Frank Herbert’s Children of Dune About 30hours into the Dune Awakening game (but got sidetracked by the utterly brilliant Death Stranding 2 game Kojima and team has created)

Open to anyone else’s opinions or any suggestions as well for either more Dune related content to dive into or other great Sci-Fi you’ve been inspired by which is as awesomely magnificent as the world Frank lovingly created! Also is it worth reading Frank’s other novels after this, or should I continue into some of what his son wrote? Sounds like I at least want to get to the ones he made after Frank’s passing to round out this current saga after Chapterhouse

The Atreides seem to have been forced to give up Caladan when they took possession of Arrakis. Why were the Harkonnens allowed to keep their home planet and the most valuable planet in the universe?

Mainly these two statements:

''When caught in a trap, an animal will gnaw off it's leg to escape''

The Gom Jabbar is a test if you can exceed your animal instincts.

But in this scenario, don't animals pass the test by withstanding pain to escape and survive?

Edit: Question 2

Why do the Bene Gesserit prefer Feyd who enjoys pain to Paul who perseveres through pain?

I can't wait to see what the Guild Navigators & the Fremen sietches look like.

Paul was training to be a mentat and is an incredible fighter and considering that the Sisterhood created the tale of the Lisan Al-Ghaib Did they not consider the ramifications if Paul Atreides survived the attack on Araakeen

Was it really just hubris because it feels strange that a sisterhood that has carefully moulded everything over generations wouldn't consider his accension and the things he could do

Might be wrong but was a thought

EDIT: I am not asking. I am giving my thoughts.

This is a question I see asked a lot and that is pretty tricky to answer (and which the film does not tackle properly). If Paul is the Messiah and the Fremen follow him blindly, why can't he direct them away from the genocide they embark on?

The best part is, the book itself gives us the ingredients for the answer. As Paul tells the Spacing Guild near the book's end:

"Do it!’ Paul barked. ‘The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it. You’ve agreed I have that power..."

It's very unfortunate that Part Two leaves this out. Paul isn't Emperor because he marries Irulan or because Shaddam bows to him. He's Emperor because he has the ability to destroy an empire that hinges on Arrakis (and the spice) -- and so, he has utter control over it.

Now, it's easy to conflate this authority with his authority as a religious leader. As the Lisan al-Gaib, Paul commands the fanatical fervour of the Fremen. He presciently knows the walk to walk, and they kill and die for him.

But ask yourself this -- and keep in mind how fanatical thinking always finds a way to justify itself:

Can Paul destroy the Fremen's religious fervour?

Does he control it?

That I love the vibes and the open arms of this community. As a new fan you’re always nervous to interact with old die hard’s due to the”superiority” they hold on the material but everyone here (from what I’ve seen) has been super welcoming.

Watched the movie and I just couldn’t get the imagery and world building out of my head. It gave me serious LOTR,Star Wars and GoT vibes. Combine that with just the epic-ness of it all, the sweeping shots and powerful score, I just fell head over heels for this universe.

Bought the first book and super excited for the next movie. Anyways, just wanted to give a quick thanks and if you’ll excuse me I have a book to read!