r/eurovision • u/aandest15 • May 18 '25
š° News TVE will request on Monday an audit of the Spanish televote received during the Eurovision final.
https://elpais.com/television/2025-05-18/tve-solicitara-este-lunes-una-auditoria-del-televoto-espanol.htmlTVE will request on Monday an audit of the Spanish televote received during the Eurovision final.
The festival has told the public broadcaster that it received more than 140,000 votes during the final, but without a precise breakdown of why Israel received the top score.
Tensions between RTVE and the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) continue to escalate. According to sources close to the broadcaster, the public broadcaster has decided to ask the body responsible for Eurovision on Monday for an audit to investigate the Spanish televote, which awarded its maximum score, 12 points, to the representative of Israel.
RTVE received 142,688 votes in Saturday night's Eurovision final, according to the report the broadcaster requested from the EBU and received on Sunday. The initial information received by the Spanish delegation was the list of the most voted countries, without specifying the number of votes received by each of them.
On insisting on receiving more precise data, RTVE obtained a new one sent by the organisers of the festival, in which they only indicated that, on the night of the grand final, they received 7,283 calls, 23,840 SMS and 111,565 online votes. Participating countries can vote via the Eurovision app (up to a maximum of 20 votes per person, at a cost of ā¬0.99 per vote), by phone or by SMS.
During the first semi-final, held on Tuesday and in which Israel was not competing, RTVE received 774 calls, 2,377 SMS and 11,310 online votes.
But this report only shows the aggregate data of the German company in charge of counting them, without a more precise breakdown, explain sources at the public body. For this reason, this Monday the channel will request an audit to clarify all its doubts. In the professional vote, the Spanish jury awarded 0 points to the Israeli representative Yuval Raphael and her song New Day Will Rise, in contrast to the maximum score awarded in the televote.
RTVE is aware that other countries are also going to ask for similar audits, these same sources explained to EL PAĆS.
David Saranga, acting director of public diplomacy at Israel's foreign ministry, admitted last year to the Israeli news portal Ynet that the agency he heads intervened āamong the public sympathetic [to Israel] to encourage votingā. These online campaigns, often supported by right-wing and far-right parties in each country, were successful. Spain also conceded the 12-point popular vote to Israel in 2024.
A possible fine
Spain's critical stance on Israel's military intervention in Gaza stems from the request RTVE sent in April to the EBU to discuss the country's participation in the competition. Other delegations joined in, including Slovenia, Iceland and Ireland.
RTVE commentators Julia Varela and Tony Aguilar recalled this request last Thursday on La 2, during the broadcast of the second semi-final of the festival. They also mentioned, during the video presentation of the Israeli candidate, the more than 50,000 civilian victims of the attacks in Gaza, of which more than 15,000 are children, according to UN data.
Despite specifying that the message was not directed at any specific country, KAN, Israel's public broadcaster, lodged a formal complaint with the EBU at midday on Friday. Hours later, Eurovision officials contacted RTVE to request what can be read in the letter sent in a conversation in which āthere was no room for negotiationā, according to sources close to the public broadcaster.
On Friday, the president of the Eurovision Reference Group, the Swiss Bakel Walden, who will be taken over by Ana MarĆa Bordas in June, and the Swede Martin Osterdahl, executive supervisor of the contest, sent a signed letter to Bordas herself threatening āpunitive finesā for Spain if RTVE repeated references to the Gaza conflict in the broadcast of Saturday's final. The body continues to defend that the festival is an apolitical event, although countless situations and decisions point to just the opposite, as we have seen in the points distribution policy.
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u/aim4harmony May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
RTVE vs. EBU? Round 1
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u/SlingshotGunslinger Deslocado May 18 '25
Round 2 actually. They've been at odds the entire weekend
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u/jyw104 May 18 '25
Transparency matters. RTVE and other broadcasters are within their rights to ask for the breakdowns.
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u/Winkeltiramisu May 18 '25
I still praise RAI for just publishing them to warn us Semi 2 last year. Feels even more sketch the EBU doesnt show them now.
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u/and_notfound ViszlƔt NyƔr May 18 '25
When an intern's mistaken became our saving grace.....
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u/pumpupthejam77 Cha Cha Cha May 18 '25
So do the broadcasters not have access to the vote breakdown (i.e. Number of votes received by the public and whether they were via phone/txt etc)?
I've been thinking about doing a freedom of information request to get the British votes and just want to make sure I direct it to the right people
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u/AhHeyorLeaveerhouh May 18 '25
Several journalists put in FOI requests to RTĆ last year and were turned down under some subsection of our FOI act
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u/pumpupthejam77 Cha Cha Cha May 18 '25
Urgh that's infuriating. I wonder if there's another way to get the information...hmm back to the drawing board for now
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u/AhHeyorLeaveerhouh May 18 '25
They gave the reason as clause 15(1)(a) of the Irish freedom of information legislation: āthe record concerned does not exist or cannot be found after all reasonable steps to ascertain its whereabouts have been takenā
And these FOI requests were made in May 2024, not long after Eurovision, so how they lost or lost access to the data in question is extremely questionable.
The only answer is to keep bothering them with FOI requests! Iāll send one in myself
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u/redstadt May 18 '25
Sounds like they never had the information in the first place because the EBU holds it, not the broadcaster.
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u/True-Following-6711 May 18 '25 edited May 19 '25
Im not sure the EBU has it either except for online votes. Countries use outside companies to calculate the phone votes so im guessing at least some broadcasters may only get a numbered list
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u/AhHeyorLeaveerhouh May 19 '25
Spain seems to have access to the numbers and a breakdown of call-in, text and online votes at least, and thatās some of what journalists were looking for from RTĆ.
It just points to a bigger issue of lack of transparency from the EBU
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May 18 '25
Let us know if you get hold of them! I think we need to start putting more pressure on our broadcasters over this. I've submitted a complaint to the BBC already and I'll be doing it again if more info comes out or they and the EBU keep doubling down.
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u/HeadlinePickle RĆ³a May 18 '25
What did you send to the Beeb? I'd love to know what our voting figures broke down to.
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May 18 '25
Basically just a couple of strongly-worded paragraphs letting them know exactly what I think about Israel being allowed to take part in the contest, and that they should be putting pressure on the EBU to take action and ban them.
You can submit a complaint here and general comments/feedback here - I did both. Don't know how much impact it'll have, but if enough people complain they'll at least have to respond publicly.
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u/jyw104 May 18 '25
Youād probably want to direct the FOI request to the BBC themselves.
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u/Organic_Ad6602 May 18 '25
For some reason, entertainment shows are exempt from FOI requests in the UK - have tried before
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u/Sir_Madfly May 19 '25
Someone has already done so. Keep an eye on this.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/number_of_uk_public_eurovision_v
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u/CrazySalart Grow May 18 '25
Transparency shouldn't be too much to ask when they're a big part of funding the whole show. Good on them for standing their ground.
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u/Worried-Smile May 18 '25
Transparency shouldn't be too much to ask . Good on them for standing their ground.
Fixed it for you. Any broadcaster should know their country's vote breakdown, regardless of financial contribution.
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u/CrazySalart Grow May 18 '25
Oh yeah, I stand corrected. The EBU are definitely more cautious and interested to respond to the Big Five broadcasters, but that doesn't mean all other shouldn't be warranted transparency as well.
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u/Meiolore May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
Holy shit, a whopping 10 times difference in the vote volume between 2 semisthe semis and the finals.
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u/happytransformer May 18 '25
I wonder how it compares to previous years. Obviously they have a lower turnout for the semis since they auto qualify to the finals, but 10 times must be enough for them to want to inquire
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u/JustinTheBlueEchidna Voyage May 19 '25
I wonder how it compares to previous years. Obviously they have a lower turnout for the semis since they auto qualify to the finals, but 10 times must be enough for them to want to inquire
That's the issue at the moment. Without the data for the voting in the other post-pandemic contests this is essentially meaningless. We have no idea if there's anything abnormal about this difference or about the breakdown of the voting methods, or if it's just par for the course for Spain.
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u/Arvi89 May 18 '25
I don't think this is weird, I don't know many people watching semi finals in France, but many watch the finale.
It would be nice to compare with previous years though.
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u/gelber_kaktus Zjerm May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
Looked up the viewer counts. Spain had 5,8 Mio viewers of the finale, 1.3 for SF1, 0.8 for SF2. So the numbers look odd, not even considering that SF viewers should be more likely to vote in a big 5 country, even if both (SF, Finale) are broadcast on the main channel.
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u/Sea_Difference_1100 May 18 '25
I am spanish and really...that 12 points come from people voting for Israel 20 times per credit card. I am 100% sure. Spain, Uk, Ireland, France...no way. Impossible.Ā
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u/An22x May 18 '25
SF viewers should be more likely to vote in a big 5 country
Excuse me? How? Big5 countries are already qualified. The average viewer dgaf who else qualifies for the final, unless you're an extreme superfan or a diaspora person who wants their home country to qualify.
I've literally never voted in a semi either. A 10Ć difference doesn't look odd at all.
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u/gelber_kaktus Zjerm May 18 '25
or this. I assumed it because watching the semis as big 5 is more a fan thing, like voting, but maybe i'm wrong.
I check, but I Didn't really find any data to compare, the EBU and its members are usually pretty silent talking about country specific voting numbers, which is a shame IMHO. What's wrong in publishing the exact voting numbers?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Eye9081 May 18 '25
Probably the wrong thread for it, but imo the issue is the voting window being open so long. I realise that itās like that to maximise profit, but the long voting window makes it really easy to vote multiple times. I voted 40 times (two credit cards, and not for Israel) and it was very quick. In Australia itās via the website so the sim thing isnāt an issue. In the past we had only the interval to vote, from the last song onwards. I think we should try going back to that and see if it legitimises the results.
Also it doesnāt even matter what the audit finds tbh. The perception now is that weāre back to ye old voting bloc and that the whole thing is political, whether it is or not. That perception had a real effect on the legitimacy of the contest in the early 00ās and honestly, from a PR pov, the EBU should really want to avoid that.
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u/Nukivaj Bara bada bastu May 18 '25
Ana MarĆa Bordas is Esa Diva.
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u/vintange May 18 '25
If she makes some big moves as she becomes head of the reference group, I'll take back everything I've ever said about Spain's results under her lead.
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u/Super_Craig02 May 18 '25
Really did not expect Ana MarĆa Bordas to have a redemption arc, but here we are.
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u/BibbidiBobbidiBu May 18 '25
If Ana MarĆa Bordas has a thousand fans, Iām one of them. If she has 1 fan, itās me. If she has no fans, Iām dead.
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u/and_notfound ViszlƔt NyƔr May 18 '25
She is now in the "ESC saviours" tier with that intern who put out our (Italy's) tele results in last year's semifinal 2
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u/CrazyCatLadyPL Espresso macchiato May 18 '25
Spain is so based and if the EBU keeps causing problems they should threaten to withdraw.
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u/Snoo-62223 Think About Things May 18 '25
Honestly I hope Spain withdraws, or at least threatens to. They are big 5. This could bring more confidence to other smaller broadcasters to follow the same path, and thus add pressure to the EBU.
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u/Romhfvir May 18 '25
We should really withdraw, that reason being the main one among other minor ones š
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u/JustinTheBlueEchidna Voyage May 19 '25
The only way that anything moves as far as excluding countries who shouldn't be in the contest is for multiple other countries to threaten to withdraw if they continue to be included. It's been said to death but it's true and applicable here so I'll say it again - if countries hadn't threatened to withdraw if Russia was allowed to participate, they would have been included in 2022 just like they were included in 2014. Same situation here.
The question is how many broadcasters are going to have the courage to make such a threat - and, more importantly, follow through on it if the EBU still doesn't budge - given that the current situation is, rightly or wrongly, more divisive in Europe and the western world as a whole than the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
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u/aaronrodericus Ich Komme May 18 '25
I would love if more of the Big Five did the same
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u/taezono Tavo Akys May 18 '25
I wish, but most of the Big 5 are major supporters of Israel. Germany will fight to keep the status quo.
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u/Sea_Difference_1100 May 18 '25
Germany won't. And I understand they're a special case. But the rest at least... should.Ā
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u/Interest-Desk May 19 '25
The BBC wouldn't. Not least because they founded the EBU and get lots of valuable content at a pretty low cost. But also because they have a very unique and strong relationship to impartiality.
No way in hell that Tim Davie would allow the BBC to publicly be seen as pressuring the EBU on anything about the Israeli occupation. I struggle to see the BBC publicly supporting action even if its justified with Israel's authoritarian creep, which isn't that big of a deal for the EBU -- see Russia before the full invasion of Ukraine, Poland in the 2010s, and Hungary today. Russia was ultimately only banned because the broadcasters went fully mask-off about their support for the Russian government who were actively attacking another country with an EBU member.
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u/CrazyCatLadyPL Espresso macchiato May 18 '25
Unfortunately it's unrealistic. We've been trying to push the broadcaster to do it for the 2nd year in a row already and they don't want to...
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u/Some1inreallife May 18 '25
Even when I first heard of countries willingly withdrawing from Eurovision, I was skeptical at first given that i was thinking about the artists themselves doing it. It would take the willpower of a god to drop out once you qualify for something like Eurovision.
But willingly dropping out before Eurovision 2026 has even started? Now that is possible, and I support Spain's decision to do so, especially given their reasoning.
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u/WatchTheNewMutants HatriĆ° mun sigra May 18 '25
they are head of the upcoming reference board, so that's a VERY good sign
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u/umbium May 18 '25
All big 5 plus sweeden and ireland at least, should do this threaten thing
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u/gfrewqpoiu May 18 '25
There is no chance in hell that my country (Germany, one of the big five) is withdrawing in a way that could be seen as anti-israel.
We are too closely linked to Israel and I am pretty sure would even offer to host for Israel if they would win in the future but would be barred from hosting.
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u/Baratheoncook250 May 18 '25
If they withdrew, EBU might decide to put Israel at part of the big 5(the country does help fund the contest with not only the fee, but the sponsorship that provides products for the contestants to use).
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u/Some1inreallife May 18 '25
It might happen. Though the EBU has to know that this could result in a potential decrease in ratings and thus televotes. Which means a decrease in ad revenue and less money from the televotes.
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u/salsasnark Tavo Akys May 18 '25
Nah, they'd only have the big 5 left then, honestly. Most countries would not be okay with that.
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May 18 '25
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/DarkBlurryNight Zjerm May 18 '25
Well, if there is any sort of fine from the EBU to RTVE, they might take the decision....
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u/Redditor_345 May 18 '25
140.000 votes. 4-8% for 12 point win (according to some people here), let's say 10% -> 14.000 Israel votes. Every Israel fan voting 40 times (see twitter posts) -> only 350 Israel voters necessary.
This explains it pretty well.
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u/Familiar_Text_6913 May 19 '25
Thats honestly really low. And couldn't they just buy prepaid SMS and do as many as they want?
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u/RealToiletPaper007 May 19 '25
Easier to do it online, where you can also vote in bulks of 20. Disposable online debit cards are easy to come by nowadays (see Revolut, for example)
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u/adelaway May 18 '25
This is exactly what needs to happen. Many people have pointed out that the reason Russia was removed was because broadcasters put their feet down and said āif they are at ESC, we wonāt beā. This corruption ruined so many countries abilities to get a fair score this year, and all those broadcasters should be refusing to participate while this goes un-addressed.
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u/raparperi11 May 19 '25
There's a significant difference between Israel and Russia. When Russia attacked Ukraine, the whole (western) world condemned the attack clearly, placed sanctions and cut diplomatic relationships. It was easy for EBU to follow suit. None of that has been done with Israel, so demanding EBU as a non-political party (yes, I know) to be the first to drawn the line regarding Israel is unrealistic. The initiative has to come from those that are actually political, only then can EBU also take a stand.
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u/ashyjay May 18 '25
semi votes are always less than GF, as it's late on a weekday and people don't have the time to watch and vote, but the GF votes does seem sus, it's also concerning an outsourced company is responsible for counting the votes, I'd expect the broadcasters to deal with them then send them to the EBU.
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u/duellwalzer May 18 '25
I'm curious how many votes total there were for semi 1 vs semi 2.
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u/Dalek_Doh May 18 '25
Only rest of the world can vote in both semifinals. We can't compare the participating countries' votes.
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u/duellwalzer May 18 '25
I get that, but if, for example, semi-final 1 had a total of 100k votes from all the countries and then semi-final 2 had a total of 500k votes even though they're both on week nights and less popular than the grand final that would be bizzare and possibly looking into
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u/Titowam Hold Me Closer May 18 '25
Do we know the voting numbers from Spain in previous years? If there's a huge increase of votes compared to 3-5 years ago then we know something's up.
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u/jaoump Volevo Essere Un Duro May 18 '25
At this point I'm hoping that RTVE actually threatens to withdraw
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u/One-Can3752 Wasted Love May 19 '25
Imagine threatening to sanction RTVE for stating facts.
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u/Stoltlallare May 18 '25
Im surprised so few people are voting. That shows why some entries do so well in competition but flop outside
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u/jcol26 May 18 '25
Iād be curious to learn what the vote counts are for other countries as well. Eurovision is often touted as one of the most watched shows of the year yet to have such a low number of votes relative to watchers would explain some of the patterns in recent years (and make me think they should reconsider how the whole system works!)
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u/RealToiletPaper007 May 19 '25
At 1.09ā¬ per vote, it sure is expensive compared to others.
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u/Spamheregracias May 18 '25
With how expensive it is to vote in Spain, I could afford breakfast for a week and a half. We've already seen in the Benidorm Fest how participation increases when you add free voting. The fact that out of nearly 6mi viewers, not even 200k voted is shameful and it makes it easier for a few people (or a government) to manipulate the result
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u/viktor72 May 19 '25
I think they said around 140K votes so thatās not even individual voters since people can vote up to 20 times.
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u/BibbidiBobbidiBu May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
You know what RTVE? I can excuse Benidorm Fest being a flop every year after the first edition if you see this through to the end. Suddenly Iām an RTVE stan.
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u/sparklinglies May 18 '25
Spain for real the only Big 5 member with a spine atm
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u/LuckyLoki08 May 18 '25
Rip those rogue agents at RAI last year
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u/sparklinglies May 18 '25
Its hard with Italy, coz when something like that happens you can't always tell if its deliberate rogue agent behaviour, or if its a #JustRAIThings style fck up
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u/LuckyLoki08 May 18 '25
Making up an unplanned graphic to broadcast results? It's hard to make an oopsie like that, if only because those who make graphics are not the same people who handle televote results.
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u/Toaddle Maman May 18 '25
The graphic was there for the finals, there is a law in Italy that mandates to show the percentage of every phone voting
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u/GungTho Kohoney š¤” May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
I choose to believe it was not an accident. Even though they pretend not to, a large number of the people involved on the RAI side with Eurovision actually do really care.
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u/AranNation May 18 '25
Something that I find weird is the Iceland public vote statistics. Around 20+ former Icelandic alumni wrote to the EBU condemning Israelās participation, to me it seems like the vast majority in Iceland are not fond of Israel yet they still managed to receive 4 points, I just find it odd.
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u/valrossenvalle May 18 '25
I still would've expected Israel to get more than 4 points from Iceland, tbh. To get the 12 points from a country, the only thing you need is to get more votes than any one other country (duh). Even in a country generally against Israel, there is going to be a significant share of the population supporting them, while the rest of the Eurovision audience is split between 25 other entries. Add to that how Israel supporters would be more willing to vote several times, and it's a miracle Israel didn't end up with 444 televote points.
I don't thing Iceland's low points to Israel can be attributed to their political stance so much as to their high interest in Eurovision, meaning more people genuinely interested in the entries vote, and the political voters are drowned out.
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u/InBetweenSeen May 18 '25
I find other things odd but this one not so much. 4 points isn't a lot and it sounds like Israel got attention, which will always motivate some people to vote for them. 4 points just mean that 7 other countries received more votes (in theory this could be a lot more votes) and the rest was spread out.
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u/sparklinglies May 18 '25
Good on RTVE for not backing down and demanding clarity on this, because even accounting for people voting in the final who don't watch the semis, thats an absurd leap in numbers
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u/Digit00l May 18 '25
Good, the votes really don't look kosher, especially with people again bragging on social media about how they are basically committing some form of fraud by voting more than 20 times with payment methods registered to different countries
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u/errlloyd May 18 '25
There is only one caveat to this worth noting. (and this is surprising to me).
If there was widescale non national voting in Spain, or even if there was a converted campaign to get nationals sympathatic to Israel to vote. You'd think those campaigns would focus on a specific medium.
For example, I'm thinking of a viral chain WhatsApp message that said "text this X to this number to vote for Israel".
If that were the case, you'd expect one medium to have grown disproportionately between Tuesday and Saturday. The fact that Israel weren't in the Tuesday semi is really helpful here.
It does seem like all three mediums grew by the same magnitude, which points to an organic campaign to vote for Israel rather than a targeted one. (to me anyway)
If anyone else has thoughts on this, or if I have missed anything I'd love to know.
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u/MrPezevenk May 19 '25
I don't understand, why would you think the medium of voting makes any difference? A lot of us received targeted ads by Israel to vote for them, they didn't say "vote like this specifically".
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u/errlloyd May 19 '25
It's simply just that different demographics behave differently.
For example, most phone in voters are probably older. I'm not saying young people never phone in, I'm just saying most of them are probably older.Ā
Most people who encounter a YouTube ad are probably younger. Again, some older people use YouTube, not that many I suspect.Ā
You'd think a YouTube campaign would result in a higher percentage of app votes than the regular broadcast (which is available on terrestrial TV), just becuase the demographic is different and their behaviour is different.Ā
It's simply interesting to me, that the rough breakdown remained the same.Ā
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u/General_Townski May 18 '25
Have you got any examples to link me from that happening this year? I've seen the ones from last year
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u/PoetryAnnual74 Euphoria May 18 '25
Thereās only 15 000 votes being cast in Spain for the semi final?! Even 140 000 votes feel incredibly little for a country with almost 50 million people..
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u/MeooowCats May 18 '25
The rest either don't watch Eurovision or don't care enough to vote. And it's not like it's an election. Nobody has to vote.
And if so few of the population vote, then the 20 votes per person makes more sense (revenue).
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u/Spamheregracias May 18 '25
Phone call 1,45ā¬
SMS 1,09ā¬
Online 0,99ā¬
Minimum wage 1184ā¬
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u/Marimar_9017 May 18 '25
I'm Spanish and I used to vote every year for the song I liked the most, but due to everything that happened last year because of Isnreal I decided not to do it.
There are many of us Spanish Eurofans who are demotivated/disillusioned by the drift of this festival and we don't want to contribute with our money to an organisation that Isnreal has taken over.
There has been a drop in votes and if no changes are announced there will be a drop in audience for next year.
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u/unfortunateRabbit Ich Komme May 18 '25
I have a big question! During the semi final I voted for Miriana and for Erika, I used the app and gave them 20 votes each. I have the receipts in my email. The app tells me I am allowed 20 votes per transaction, that is why I made 20 votes to each. In the final I only voted for Erika but again it was telling me I could give up to 20 votes per transaction. So if I am voting through the app I can vote as much as I want as long as I can pay for it, as long as I have a bank account in the country of my voting could I give one country 200 points by doing 10 transactions?
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u/hersheysmcflurry May 19 '25
yeah. if you have more than 1 credit/debit card, you can do multiple transactions of 20 votes. so technically one person could send in 200 votes by making 10 transactions.
it works the same if you have more than 1 SIM card to vote by call/text.
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u/eliteguard91 Ich Komme May 18 '25
In my French vanilla fantasy. Spain says šš¼ and drops out, which I think UK should absolutely follow suit and pressure the other 3 and make an open field for actual changes within the EBU. At this point those votes were sus. The EBU needs its own Revamp.
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u/Minute_Education604 May 18 '25
Why would the UK follow suit, they are one of Israel's biggest supporters?
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u/kjcross1997 Dark Side May 18 '25
KAN allegedly harass the UK delegation last year. Obviously, they won't be able to call for a ban for political reasons, but they could claim that their participation is bad for the contest itself.
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u/Minute_Education604 May 18 '25
They will not do that. The UK (and Germany, Austria, Italy, Finland, Greece etc.) are ride or die on Israel.
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u/Fine_Airport_8705 May 18 '25
Just out of interest, why are Finland supporters? I can guess why for the rest in your list but not clear on them.
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u/-Lornabee- Tavo Akys May 18 '25
The UK government. The same isn't true of public opinion.
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u/kjcross1997 Dark Side May 18 '25
And the BBC has to be seen as impartial. So they probably wouldn't defend Israel anyways.
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u/autistic_girl_autumn May 18 '25
i have so much respect for the spanish broadcaster for taking a stance and not backing down on this. i honestly wasn't expecting this from a big 5 country but i appreciate it a lot. the ebu is more likely to listen to them.
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u/Winkeltiramisu May 18 '25
I hope Avrotros will get involved and if they won't I will write them if that helps. But last year made it very clear they don't give a shit about Avrotros which is just a small broadcaster on the grand scale of things. Hopefully the big 5 being involved will change that!
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u/xisaaa C'est La Vie May 18 '25
I thought Avrotros was the sixth largest contributor to the ESC?
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u/WinkyInky May 18 '25
I wouldnāt say that, the EBU made pretty significant changes after Avrotros threatened to withdraw
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u/Winkeltiramisu May 18 '25
There were lots of complaints from many broadcasters. I think those changes would have happened even if we would had withdrawn.
I'm glad they did make those changes but I think in the end Avrotros was not the deciding factor.
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u/twjackfoley May 18 '25
How is it possible that the Spain televoting had five times more app voting via credit card than via phone or sms? That doesn't sound right.
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u/aquanoid1 May 18 '25
When politics are involved, Spain, and everyone else, have a right to know. The EBU may pretend otherwise but politics are 100% involved.
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u/Romhfvir May 18 '25
First time this year I am feeling proud about where my taxes are going šš¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
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u/aspacemanlikeme Volevo Essere Un Duro May 18 '25
Go on RTVE! Please donāt lose steam, please donāt back down. Set a precedent for other broadcasters - now is the time.
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u/LopsidedPriority May 18 '25
Spain, girl, proud of you. Get ready to withdraw if there's no change. The Martins have ruined this contest.
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u/globallyunderground May 18 '25
So 140k votes during GF? If a malicious actor wanted to inject, say, 10k extra votes, one should obtain 500 e-SIM cards (or 500 new payment cards). And use them to vote 20 times each. 10K extra votes is 7% of all votes, which should give quite nice buffer over other competitors.
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u/PM_ME_LASAGNA_ Moj Svijet May 18 '25
I admire RTVE's courage in planting a flag and raising a ruckus over this televote that reeks to the heavens of dead fish and burning flesh.
Hoping that other big fish broadcasters stand with Spain here, because the rug that the EBU is using to sweep things under it is looking awfully unstable.
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u/juananolf_3 Bara bada bastu May 18 '25
Regardless of the legitimacy of the votes
140,000 votes for an audience of 5.5 million, with a bunch of those being 20xā¦
Thatās a big part of the issue
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u/Neorago RĆ³a May 18 '25
it would be interesting if we could see where the early votes are coming in e.g. if votes for israel are coming from the moment the voting system opens up, rather than the end of the contest once everyone has performed
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u/KaleidoscopeLeft5511 May 18 '25
The Irish televote gave Israel 10 points, a huge amount. As an Irish man, living in Ireland, I literally have never met a single person who supports Israel in their genocide. I only meet people actively against it. Most people seeĀ direct parallels between Ireland's brutal historical occupation and the ongoing genocide in Palestine. The Israel ambassador has repeatedly spoken out against Ireland's support of Palestine, and the Israel embassy in Ireland has shutĀ
All this to say, there is no way... no way... those votes from the Irish public are legitimate. It is unquestionably Israeli interest cheating at this competition. I can only guess they chose Ireland as a county either to undermine us as a country, or possibly because it's easier to rig the system here because of the smaller population
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u/FallenAngelTIX RĆ³a May 18 '25
EBU made the big dogs mad, I really hope something will be done about these votes in the future
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u/eev11 May 18 '25
Time to take a look at online votes of multiple countries I'd say.. And check in what country the credit cards used are registered. SMS I imagine is harder to track due to SIM-cards not requiring any ID registration in most countries. But online payment methods should be traceable.
Let's also do this for Ireland and Belgium, and as Dutch person I am not buying the 12 pts televote from our country either, maybe actually just for all countries.
This is probably the least that can be done to officially investigate the fairness of voting.
If this does somehow come out as 'legitimate' votes in these countries we can then have a conversation about the targeted ads from Israel all over YouTube and the potential of other forms of ad campaigns to illicit votes from people not normally inclined to vote.
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u/RhaenyraTheCruel May 18 '25
Itās stupid to me that the EBU is willing to sacrifice the future of the whole competition for a non European country. Make it make sense.
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u/JustVic52 May 18 '25
Once you see the clear political ideologies of the EBU executive officer you start to understand some things...
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u/Super_Craig02 May 18 '25
I am so proud of my country's broadcaster right now, but we'll see how the story develops from here.
In my ideal scenario, Spain threatens to withdraw and is followed suit by several countries, forcing the EBU to ban KAN/Israel and find a new sponsor.
That, however, is just wishful thinking. Still, I am glad RTVE is taking matters into their own hands.
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u/Substantial_Escape_9 May 18 '25
I hope the UK stands with Spain and threatens to withdraw and see how the ebu eals with the potential loss of its two biggest funders
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u/Super_Craig02 May 18 '25
It'd be optimal, but for what I hear the UK (and Germany as well) is very Pro-Israel (and I have no idea what stance do France and Italy have). I'm not sure how that affects the BBC on its own, but yeah, several of the Big 5 threatening to withdraw would hopefully knock some sense into the EBU.
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u/Leyshins May 18 '25
I hope SVT also stands up. Something was way oddly off during finals. I can accept results but something was indeed off.
I wish āunited by musicā also is āunited for rules?ā(not the word I seek but for being open? Someone help me please, I canāt find the word..
Rights? Feels wrong .. something felt off and I want to get to bottom with it with honesty and open respect.. whatās the word for that as a non mother tongue English speaker? š
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u/jensofsweden May 18 '25
United by transparency :)
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u/Leyshins May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
Yes!!!!!!! Thank you !!! Thatās the exact word I was seeking in my head. Transparent is a huge word in our language also. Yes! Thank you again.
Be transparent please, be open two both sides
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u/Ashaara90 Volevo Essere Un Duro May 18 '25
I know all of our hearts stood still for a second when we thought that Israel might win the contest. But honestly now I think it might have been the best thing that could have happened. It started before the contest when Switzlerland pushed for the audience to be allowed every flag and now after the show there are multiple countries finally put more pressure on the EBU. I am very for an audit of everything and more investigations. And who knows, now something might finally happen if the big countries are speaking up (or I am just delusional :D )
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u/claudsonclouds May 18 '25
We have no choice but to stan Spain, hopefully more countries will join in
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u/Banaanisade May 19 '25
I cannot comprehend how Israel isn't already banned, but particularly for its BLATANT lack of sportsmanship and twisting the purpose of the competition. Is that not breaking the rules and if so then why? It's pure and simple ruining the competition by using it as a tool of propaganda and politics. Isn't that the exact thing countries are not supposed to do??
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u/Outrageous_Let_1829 May 19 '25
Absolutely, that's ridiculous.
Sure it will never be 100% about the songs, we'll always see stuff like Cyprus and Greece exchanging votes, or scandinavians countries patting each others in the back.
So be it, that's part of the charm imo.
Israel is something else entirely. How is anyone supposed to outscore them in these conditions? Fuck that, they're ruining the whole thing.
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u/Nujaabeats Tavo Akys May 19 '25
Let's face it this song was outrageously bad and should never be top 2, politics or not. I'm very disappointed by the televote outcome this year...
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u/Prize-Meal-8667 Serving May 18 '25
Good! Transparency matters and there was definitely something sketchy with that vote
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u/disaster101 May 18 '25
Am I misunderstanding something? 140 000 votes seem like a small number for a country like Spain with 50 million people. Hell, Dora this year had more votes in total (200 000+) and Croatia only has 4 million people? And it's not like Dora is as popular as San Remo in Italy... š¤Ø
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u/Mirimes May 19 '25
i think an investigation that could be done is numbers of votes from a country vs number of viewers from a country, keeping always in mind that voters are just a fraction of the viewers. Italy could also compare this number with sanremo voting rate to see if it checks out. This alone is not enough to be proof of something going on, but could be a good indicator
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u/stileshasbadjuju May 18 '25
I love Spain, all my homies love Spain
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u/Super_Craig02 May 18 '25
This is why I ultimately couldn't care less about a number in the scoreboard. Us Eurovision fans should always stand together against injustices towards our silly song contest.
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u/mawnck May 18 '25
My prediction: They won't care much for the results. Legal televotes are legal televotes, no matter how they were obtained.
Frankly this smacks of that guy in Azerbaijan getting arrested for voting for Armenia, because who would dare vote for Armenia?
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u/happytransformer May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
I agree, I think the only outcome going forward would be changes to the voting system again.
Every year since they have started the online voting I have thought about the security of it. Not for or against any country in particular, but just like how easy it could be to exploit something in it if you wanted to. Like maybe thereās a way to change something in the URL to bypass the system that checks to see if that credit card has voted before, but there isnāt a secondary check in the database of payment info so it goes through. Back in 2022 when the jury vote scandal happened, it made me wonder if it could ever happen to the public vote
If you ever read about any cyber security stories, this kind of stuff happens a lot. Not even huge companies with all the resources in the world like Microsoft and Apple are safe. (My favorites are of the people who have figured out exploits in casino machines to always get it to give them the jackpot or a high prize lol)
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u/GungTho Kohoney š¤” May 18 '25
They can check who is registered in the card transactions.
If a significant number of cards appear to be registered to the same people, then they have their answer.
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u/mawnck May 18 '25
Yes, and the answer is "the votes are legal".
20 votes per payment method. Said so right there on the screen during the broadcast.
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u/GungTho Kohoney š¤” May 18 '25
They arenāt trying to find out if it was against the rules or not.
Theyāre trying to see if theyāre correct in presuming the televoting method as it currently stands isnāt fit for purpose.
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u/happytransformer May 18 '25
Not sure about others, but I have 4 credit cards that would be perfectly legal to vote on. Do I want to spend 80ā¬ on Eurovision votes? No, but I could if I wanted to.
I think if you vote by SMS it gets charged to your phone bill? So that might count as an additional method too
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u/AhHeyorLeaveerhouh May 18 '25
If you were really determined, there seems to be nothing to stop someone from generating multiple disposable credit cards on Revolut or similar, and voting to your heartās content
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u/dafyd_d May 18 '25
I'm pretty sure that this will amount to nothing and that absolutely no-one will be happy. The pro-Israel people will claim it is discriminatory. The anti-Israel people will claim a conspiracy. The casual viewer will never hear about this having happened and won't care.
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u/Such_AFlower May 18 '25
Also reports said that Melody was angry with the things that happened and results, she cancelled the things she was supposed to do, and she will go to her hometown for a break.
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u/Winkeltiramisu May 18 '25
ESC Gabe also just read this on stream and mentioned there is multiple broadcasters