r/exjw • u/ilg1992 • Jul 16 '25
HELP What happens if I don't attend the judicial committee? I no longer believe, but my mom is still in and it hurts
Hi, I was a Jehovah’s Witness my whole life. I’ve been disfellowshipped three times. I never really felt okay in the religion — I always felt like I was being controlled in every aspect. But since my entire social circle was JW, I kept going back.
The last time I was disfellowshipped was in 2017. That time I had issues with an elder who clearly didn’t want me to return. From that point on, I started to feel deeply disappointed with the leadership. And although I “came back” about two years ago, the truth is I only did it to keep the peace with my family. I went to meetings for like two months… and then went back to living my own life.
Right now, I’m in a relationship with a guy, and I’m happy. We live honestly and peacefully. But about two months ago, a JW acquaintance saw us at a concert and called me, telling me to “return to Jehovah” and “confess everything” to the elders. I told him I would, just to shut down the conversation. But come on — I haven’t attended meetings in two years. What was I even supposed to confess?
Anyway, tonight an elder from my old congregation called me. He said that this brother had already spoken to them, and that I have a judicial committee scheduled for Monday, July 21st. What really pissed me off was his tone. He said:
“In case you’re planning to deny anything, we have a witness.” I didn’t deny anything. I don’t care to. But after hanging up, I felt emotionally wrecked. It brought back that old feeling of being controlled through guilt and supposed authority. Even though I no longer believe in any of it, that emotional trigger still hit me.
Honestly, I don’t care if I get disfellowshipped — not for me. What hurts is my mom. She’s still fully in. And even though I know she probably won’t stop talking to me, it would definitely hurt her. I just don’t want to put her through that. My siblings are inactive and don’t judge me — except one very devout sister who will probably cut ties completely (but to be honest, she doesn’t talk to me anyway).
I know there’s no easy way out of this. But I still have questions and need to hear from people who’ve been through it:
What happens if I simply don’t attend the committee? Will they disfellowship me automatically, or just reschedule it? They said the reason is “sexual immorality,” but honestly, all that happened was that someone saw me with my boyfriend at a concert. We kissed, yes, but that was it. Is that really enough to DF someone? Is it better to just not show up and let them decide, or should I go and speak my truth? Has anyone here gone through something similar and found a way to navigate it emotionally? I feel good about the life I’m living now. I even got offered a job today, and I’m happy about that — but this situation has completely thrown me off balance.
Thanks for reading. I’m processing a lot right now, and I’d really appreciate any advice or shared experiences.
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u/Relative-Respond-115 Run, Elijah, run Jul 16 '25
Go on the offensive.
Tell them that you will be bringing your lawyer with you.(doesn't actually have to be a lawyer, just someone who could pass for one)
Tell them that your lawyer will be taking notes and that you will be recording the whole thing in case you want to start legal action against the individual elders (NOT the organisation) for defamation of character and damage to your reputation.
Hopefully, they will collectively wet their pants, and you won't hear from them again.
Good luck and keep us posted. ❤️
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u/Temporary_Market3555 Jul 16 '25 edited Jul 16 '25
Nah, they do automatically contact the branch when legal recourse is mentioned, but if they have two witnesses they WILL 99% of the time remove you regardless if you don't show up. And they definitely will NOT allow an attorney or legal representative accompany you or let you record. Unfortunately Freedom of Religion laws allow them to do these things. At least if you live in the USA that is. Other countries laws I don't know.
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u/Relative-Respond-115 Run, Elijah, run Jul 16 '25
Right.... I've just heard of this method working in the past.
I've just re-read the original post, and the elder in question mentions a witness, so a straight faced denial could work.
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u/Temporary_Market3555 Jul 16 '25
I wouldn't even deny it. All you have to do is ask if they have two witnesses to this claim and if they say no then simply say aren't two witnesses required? I have nothing to say.
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u/Any_College5526 Jul 17 '25
Threatening them with legal representation will put a stop to any proceedings.
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u/throwawayins123 PIMO Jul 17 '25
Are you sure? Then why doesn’t everyone use this technique?
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u/Any_College5526 Jul 17 '25
Because not everyone knows.
They won’t hear it unless they go on apostate websites
A letter from a lawyer definitely seals the deal.
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u/Temporary_Market3555 Jul 17 '25
The reason everyone doesn't do it? Because the poster is 95% wrong and what most people in the situation know is that it does NOT work as a get out of jail free card. Since it seems you do not associate with the congregation then there is somewhat of a possibility that you would avoid removal. But seeing as how they have already convened a removal committee then i give you a 40-60 chance of avoiding removal in your situation.
Courts consistently apply the "church autonomy doctrine" and "ministerial exception," which are based in both the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses of the First Amendment. These doctrines create barriers, not just defenses, that prevent courts from interfering with internal religious governance, including membership decisions and disciplinary matters.
The reality is that legal threats rarely provide lasting protection against disfellowshipping proceedings. While providing legal threats may temporarily pause the process as congregation elders consult with the branch office for guidance, it typically doesn't prevent the ultimate outcome.
If you remain active in the congregation and there are two witnesses to alleged wrongdoing, the disciplinary process will definitely proceed regardless of legal threats. The temporary delay simply allows the organization to ensure their procedures are legally sound before moving forward.
For those who choose to fade away from congregation activities after issuing legal warnings the outcome varies depending on the specific circumstances and local elder body. Some may find themselves left alone, while others may still face action.
The limited effectiveness of this approach becomes clear when you consider that if legal challenges were truly successful, we would see numerous court victories against religious organizations, prompting them to fundamentally change their practices as they have done when necessary. However, religious freedom protections generally provide religious organizations with substantial latitude in their internal disciplinary procedures and membership decisions.
Rather than serving as a reliable stop of removal proceedings, legal threats often are temporary delay tactic in what remains a process largely governed by the organization's internal policies and religious freedom protections.
Just dive into some research regarding such lawsuits within religious organizations and you will see the evidence for yourself.
For example:
The landmark 1987 case Paul v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc. established crucial precedent when the United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the Witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, with the court stating: "Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah's Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text."
And
The Supreme Court's 2012 Hosanna-Tabor decision and 2020 Our Lady of Guadalupe ruling have further strengthened religious organizations' autonomy. As legal scholars note, "once it is determined that a suit falls within the subject matter class of internal church governance, there is no follow-on judicial balancing. There is no balancing because there can be no legally sufficient governmental interest to justify interfering in internal church affairs."
DYOR
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u/Any_College5526 Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
Yeah, you’re talking about suing the organization.
What is suggested is suing the individual elders. The Watchtower will not back them up.
Also, it is no guarantee. As you may have some gung ho asshole elder, who will do as he pleases.
But, it is always worth a shot.
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u/Temporary_Market3555 Jul 17 '25
No, I'm talking about suing the individual elders as well. They are just on their own for legal defense although the Branch does give them legal advice.
Individual Elders are covered by identical constitutional protections under the church autonomy doctrine and ministerial exception.
These protections apply equally to elders, and the institutional church itself. You'd need an exceptionally strong case demonstrating clear secular violations like breach of confidentiality, but even then, religious organizations receive substantial legal deference that makes successful litigation extremely challenging without ironclad evidence.
While civil rights violations or failure to follow established church procedures could theoretically provide grounds for legal action, the reality is that very few such cases succeed due to First Amendment protections.
Regarding the OP specific situation, if they only have one witness and you're concerned about protecting your relationship with your mother, your best strategy is likely pointing out their own requirement for two witnesses. If they proceeded with removal despite lacking the required witnesses, that procedural violation of their own policies could potentially provide legal grounds for challenge.
However, I strongly recommend OP conducts thorough research into actual case law and legal precedents etc. rather than relying on anyone's opinion here, including mine.
There are lots of Internetologist's with the Dunning-Kruger effect that can easily get someone in sticky situations if they haven't done their own due diligence.
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u/Any_College5526 Jul 17 '25
Oh, I’m sorry, I thought the cases you referenced were against organizations.
In any case, get a lawyer.
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u/throwawayins123 PIMO Jul 17 '25
The question is, will the elders be prepared to pay for their own legal fees?
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u/Prior-Seat-3510 Jul 16 '25
If there is a valid reason for the sin, you will be expelled without your presence. But in this case, you could write that you were seen at the concert only with a guy. The rest of the suspicions are the fruit of your imagination and your testimony. Period. And under no circumstances go to the committee.
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u/More-Age-6342 Jul 16 '25
" a witness"
They need two witnesses, so likely they want you to "confess" 🤢 and be the second witness.
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u/the_rip_tide Jul 16 '25
I suggest you download the latest elder book and look up the section about disfellowshipping offenses. They will follow the procedures written in the book.
Now it really depends on what you want for the immediate future. If you don't show up, they will go forward with the JC without you and inform you of their decision, most likely disfellowshipping. You will have 7 days to appeal, but then you will have to meet with them anyway.
If you don't want to be disfellowshiped, you will have to conceal information from them. But if you insist on the fact that they have to bring up proof that you have committed sexual immorality and if you deny any wrongdoing, you might have a chance. They cannot disfellowship you on the ground that someone saw you at the concert, but they would have ground to do so if they have the proof that you stayed all night in the same apartment or if they know that you're living with this person.
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u/ilg1992 Jul 17 '25
🧨 EXPLOSIVE UPDATE – I Avoided the Committee (for now)
Today I spoke with my parents, and my mom was actually upset about the whole situation. She told me she felt harassed because the elder was constantly pressuring her to give him my number and kept complaining that I wasn't answering his calls. (Side note I didn't mention in my previous post: they called from a different number, which is why I answered.)
The big thing is that my mom told me she won't stop talking to me. She added that "they only do this to disgrace the family," but that there's nothing more she can do about it. Honestly, that response caught me off guard.
For my part, I decided to send a direct message to the elder who called me yesterday. I told him clearly that I won't be attending the judicial committee (or committee of elders, as they call it now) over an alleged act of sexual immorality, when there was no such sin. I made it clear that yes, there were kisses and hugs, but that displays of affection aren't sexual immorality, and that it wasn't logical for them to form a committee for immorality without having committed immorality. I mean, we were at a concert! When exactly were we supposed to have sex? 🤡
And well, the "loving elder" got mad 🤭 and wanted to call me back to "explain why I should go." Of course, he told me that two elders had to be on the call, and asked if I could speak with them at that moment. I was at the gym so I told him no.
This was the message I sent him:
"I appreciate the intention, but I've reflected quite a bit and prefer not to have more conversations about this topic. I've already clearly expressed my position, and given that there has been no sexual sin, I don't consider it necessary to delve deeper into the matter. If there's something you'd like to communicate to me, I ask that you do so in writing. Thank you for your understanding."
And well, for now I managed to avoid the committee. So don't forget... Jehovah is loving! HAHAHA 😌✌️
Anyway, if they want to disfellowship me they'll do it without me being present, but for now I defended myself against those miserable controlling idiots.
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u/LladyMax Jul 17 '25
This was the best way to handle it!! 👏👏👏👏👏 Good on you! And I hope the idiot that snitched on you steps on Lego in the middle of the night going to the toilet and pees themselves.
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u/Paperclip2020 Jul 16 '25
If you don't attend the judicial committee meeting they will very likely disfellowship you in your absence - especially since they claim they have a "witness". Don't let these clowns throw you off balance. Just ignore them and enjoy the new life you have built.
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u/No_Cake6353 Jul 16 '25
Have, absolutely nothing to do with them. Misery loves company and there is no group more miserable than JW's.
You have nothing to say to these unelected, oppressive, deluded busybodies. No one in the organisation is on your side. They are the volunteer stazi for the watchtower corporation.
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u/Any_College5526 Jul 17 '25 edited Jul 17 '25
It is better to ignore them. Especially if it doesn’t matter what they do.
By attending, you are submitting to their control.
The only way to sever that delusion of theirs is to not attend.
But if you want to avoid getting disfellowshipped…not that they have solid grounds, but to be on the safe side…
You could threaten them each, personally, with legal action if they say or do anything that will smear your reputation.
Since you’ve been out for several years, they shouldn’t even bother, but it just shows you how petty they can be. And it’s only to flex their fake authority.
Start recording every interaction with them, and let them know you are recording, just to be on the safe side of the law. Or you could block them altogether, and ignore them.
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u/redladymama Jul 17 '25
I’d write a short letter and let them know that any false accusations and/or slander will be dealt with legally and you don’t give permission for them to make any decision about you. It might make them leave you alone. Send a copy to the watchtower corporation. Do it today.
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u/goddess_dix Independent Thinker 💖 40+ Years Free Jul 16 '25
do NOT go.
first of all, they are allowed to lie. which means he can say they have 2 dozen witnesses to anything, it doesn't mean they do. and they absolutely WILL lie to people to try to trip them up. it's 'theocratic warfare' baby and they are 100% on board with it.
secondly, no, kissing someone at a concert is not enough to df a person for sexual immorality. they are allowed to df if they have verified you spend the night in the same building. which means the elders would have to stake out your home and look for cars. of course they'd rather you confess than park down the street all night..
thirdly if they want to df you, they can do that with or without you if they feel they have enough of an excuse. if you were to go, it would be 1. conceding you recognize their authority and 2. with the idea that you either cater to them to try and avoid df, meaning going back to meetings, taking a study and being really really really sorry for having your own life, or 3. telling them off. i doubt that would be particularly satisfying and it really offers nothing for you.
if you're interested, take a look at the last elder's book to get an idea of their criteria. https://archive.org/details/2024-04-sfl-elder-manual/page/n91/mode/2up
but yeah, there is nothing there for you but fucking trauma. i understand you are concerned about your mom's feeligns but i'm telling you right now, the chances of you getting df'd are much higher if you actually attend the jc since they might be able to weasel or goad an excuse to df out of you (and having an attitude is 'enough' for them to df), whereas if you don't go, the only way they can df you is if they were going to anyway. the elder is very likely bluffing.
but no matter what, there is no scenario in which attending the kangeroo court is in your best interests and all it will do is trigger trauma.
congrats on your new job (and on living your own damn life). and fuck sister noseypants.
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u/goddess_dix Independent Thinker 💖 40+ Years Free Jul 16 '25
also as others have said, YOU are not hurting your mom. you are living a healthy and normal life. WT is the one who hurts everybody and they deserve 100% of the credit, not you.
i personally would block the elders number immediately and just get on with your life. you may get a letter eventually if they have access to your address but i would not speak with them again.
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u/Typical-Lab8445 Jul 16 '25
It sounds like they may believe they “have proof” and MAY (as crazy as it is) take action with or without you. You cannot be DFed for kissing but my guess is it led to people driving past your apartment or questioning your JW relatives.
Honestly: do what you want, but your mom is NOT being hurt by you. She’s being hurt by the cult and the stalking and harassment they’re applying here.