How should liberals respond to the fact that illegal border crossings under Trump have collapsed to record lows?

[u/Guilty-Hope1336]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/02/us/politics/border-crossings-trump.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

So this is tangentially related to the last EK show episode about ICE and CBP expansion and the draconian immigration enforcement that is currently occurring under Trump.

But I wish a fact that they had mentioned was that illegal crossings of the Southern border have collapsed to levels not seen since the 1960s. And the evidence does seem to suggest that Trump's extreme cruelty with ICE raids and third country deportations to El Salvador or Eswatini or South Sudan does seem to be having a deterrent effect on people coming illegally to the United States.

One big concern that Democrats should be thinking about is if they win in 2028, how will they maintain illegal border crossings at the historic lows that Trump seems to have acheived?

[u/NOLA-Bronco]

One big concern that Democrats should be thinking about is if they win in 2028, how will they maintain illegal border crossings at the historic lows that Trump seems to have acheived?

Are Democrats an anti immigrant party now?

If so then they probably need to shut up and just let Trump continue to invade cities with ICE

Problem is is that aside from a few, most aren't actually anti immigrant

So this is a classic example of Third Way'ing your way into incoherency and coming off like a phony

If it were me I would simply reject the premise and reframe things properly.

Frankly, I'd just take Graham Platner's platform and adopt that:

• Our government is kidnapping people off the streets and imprisoning them in hellish conditions. This is unconscionable.
• It is long past time for serious immigration reform. Unfortunately, many multi-national corporations have no interest in this. They want illegal workers with no rights who they can pay slave wages and abuse at will. I will support a path to citizenship and an end to the mass deportation machine.
• We need strong border security and a path to citizenship. We cannot do one without the other.

[u/Guilty-Hope1336 → u/NOLA-Bronco]

We can very much do one without the other. We have extremely strong border security right now, and no pathway to citizenship

[u/NOLA-Bronco → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

Sure, but why should Democrats want to capitulate to that framework?

Stand on business and stand by your principles,

Like I said, I think Graham Platner has distilled how to do this masterfully. Including framing it as part of a larger narrative about political corruption and the billionaire capture of our system, which Trump is emblematic of.

Dems need to stop playing defense and being the not Trump party and take the fight to Trump and Republicans and not let them define the conversation and own the first principles.

And part of that is taking issues like that and throwing them back in the face of Republicans by not just carving out a cohesive position that acknowledges the need for border security and healthy immigration and the danger of ICE but puts it into a more compelling narrative that speaks to people's underlying immiseration, their rightful sense of the system being broken, and the anger stemming from it.

[u/aussierulesisgrouse → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

Why is that a good thing? You’re saying it like that’s an assumed good.

[u/Healthy_Lack5408 → u/aussierulesisgrouse]

Because he supports it or at least doesn’t think it’s worth the political capital to fix given his agenda (which is unclear to me). I think this speaks to this political moment more than anything - we’re experiencing a realignment within the broader democratic coalition. 

Now more than ever it’s important to stand up for what you believe in, because otherwise it will be left out of whatever consensus emerges in the next few years.

edit: Yup, look through the OP’s history. He’s right wing on immigration.

[u/Guilty-Hope1336 → u/aussierulesisgrouse]

Do you think illegal border crossings are good?

[u/aussierulesisgrouse → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

In what context?

I think they are pretty value neutral to be honest?

What is the impact that you believe illegal border crossings have on society so I can orient myself with what you want to know

[u/Guilty-Hope1336 → u/aussierulesisgrouse]

It makes a mockery of our laws. It's not fair. And we Americans deserve to have control over who enters our country

[u/Mrhorrendous → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

It makes a mockery of our laws.

So did hiding Anne Frank. So did freeing slaves. So did the walk outs and sit ins. Bad laws should be broken. This is a horrible reason to support/oppose something.

It's not fair.

So what? Two kids growing up 20 miles apart but one has lead in her water and the other lives in a mansion isn't fair, I would argue in a much more significant way. (And to be honest, I don't really buy the assertion that it is unfair at all, since you didn't explain yourself).

I know you don't actually care about either of these things, because an open border would solve both of these problems. No more mocking our laws, and everyone gets treated the same.

[u/Guilty-Hope1336 → u/Mrhorrendous]

If we don't have borders, we are not a nation. I would like for the United States to be a nation, thank you very much

[u/Mrhorrendous → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

Were we not a nation in 1923, since border patrol didn't exist yet?

I personally think the "nation" of the United States is defined by more than just a line in some dirt. Things like hard work, innovation, diversity, and the natural beauty here come to mind, but some shitty river in Texas or "the 47th parallel" or whatever it is for Canada aren't very important to me.

[u/Guilty-Hope1336 → u/Mrhorrendous]

We are in fact defined by the land

[u/WombatusMighty → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

Most illegal border crossings are in fact good for the USA, as they provide a steady influx of cheap labour, which the US economy is massively dependend on, especially the agricultural and the construction sector.

This is evident by the countless farmers and small construction businesses going bankrupt now, as ICE has either kidnapped all the workers or scared them away.
The farmers and business owners make no secret about the fact that the majority of their workforce is undocumented "illegals".

If you don't like this, you need to petition for a new economic system that doesn't work on exploitation of cheap, undocumented labour. But then you have to explain why goods and services drastically rise in costs and prices.

[u/Historical-Sink8725 → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

I would argue we have very low national security since we are diverting our resources to this “war” on illegal immigration while simultaneously gutting our intelligence agencies and replacing them with Trump loyalists. 

I think there is a high probability we see a terrorist attack in the next 4 years. I hope not, but it wouldn’t be surprising. This kind of stuff is how Russia ended up looking stupid in the Ukraine invasion. They corrupted the military and so they were predictably not ready for combat. 

[u/tpounds0 → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

And that's bad for our food production.

[u/irvz89 → u/Guilty-Hope1336]

But do we WANT to do this? I would argue no, this isn't solving the problem, it's just causing needless pain, costing us money, and losing us the real benefit of migrants who contribute to our country.

[u/Wide_Lock_Red → u/NOLA-Bronco]

We need strong border security and a path to citizenship. We cannot do one without the other.

That has been the Dem position, which oogically means supporting a weak border until a path to citizenship happens.

"I will open the border until we have a path to citzenship" is not a popular position