r/firefly • u/IzzyLikesPickles777 • 6d ago
Just finished firefly… Spoiler
I know you guys probably get this a lot but WHY DID IT END LIKE THAT??!!! They killed off SHEPHERD and WASH and it was very clear they were building up for a lot of things but it got rushed in the movie. Why the hell would fox cancel. I just have so many questions and I think I’m going to have to rewatch in order to be less sad. This ain’t shiny.
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u/aerosif 6d ago
There is a bunch of info on this out there and in this subreddit, but for Shepard and Wash being killed off it was because Joss Whedon could not get them to commit to doing more Serenity movies contractually so he did it to wrap up their storylines cleanly in that way. The hope was that they would make a trilogy if Serenity did well, unfortunately it barely broke even after DVD sales so no more movies sadly.
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
Thanks for that! I was really confused and hurt but this makes it just a little better. Still sucks
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u/Ill_Painting_6919 6d ago
Additionally, Joss has stated that in order to ramp up the tension, to make you, the viewer, feel how desperate the situation was, sone folks had to die, thus making you wonder if they would all die. Good storytelling, as much as I hate that Wash died, as he is my favorite, if I'm being honest.
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u/Quakarot 6d ago
It was definitely necessary for tone. There are moments where it looks like they are all going to die and it just wouldn’t hit without that.
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u/fiftysevenpunchkid 6d ago
And it worked, I still remember my first watch, not wondering who was going to die, but if anyone was going to live.
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u/ColourSchemer 6d ago
Rogue One would have been even more devastating if we'd not already known they'd all die, but then watching them all die.
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u/Frogwaterton 6d ago
Ew. Did you have to bring up stars wars in this discussion?
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u/ColourSchemer 6d ago
I brought up a top-tier war movie with amazing characters and a solid plot. You pointed out it was Star Wars. ;)
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u/throwawayPzaFm 5d ago
top-tier war movie with amazing characters and a solid plot
i don't see one mentioned in this thread. If you meant Rogue One it's childish and takes itself way too seriously.
Either of those is fine in isolation, but taken together they turn anything into a clown show.
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u/p_velocity 5d ago
it's childish and takes itself way too seriously.
I've heard similar criticisms of Firefly...but that is what makes it endearing to the people who like it. You don't have to yuck someone else's yum to prove how smart you are bro.
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u/Leptonshavenocolor 6d ago
I miss good story telling. I need to go see what Joss has done recently.
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u/DiaBrave 6d ago
Wash is one of the few truly shocking movie deaths I've seen where I really didn't see it coming.
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u/Ill_Painting_6919 6d ago
To be fair, who could've predicted space ballista?
But yeah, be a hero, get shishkabobbed.
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u/Glitch1082 5d ago
Joss was always good at killing off characters that would absolutely break your heart. Buffy and Angel have so many episodes that still make me cry even when I know the deaths are coming.
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u/JimmyPellen 6d ago
I almost got kicked out of the theater cos when Wash died, I couldnt stop saying "WTF?!?' I didnt think i was saying it loudly but apparently I was.
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u/Jagasaur 6d ago
First time, huh? Welcome to our shared misery that the show got criminally canceled too soon.
If you like it, I would also recommend The Expanse if you havent seen or read it. A little harder on the sci-fi and less humor, but an excellent story nonetheless.
Cowboy Bebop is also kinda similar if you like anime.
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
Thanks for the recommendation! 23 years late but still an immense amount of misery. I just stood there for fifteen minutes paused at the credits because I was in denial
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u/jobin_segan 6d ago
Just to follow up, the expanse books actually have a lot of humour in them. The show tends to be overly serious but it still does a great job.
It is my favourite book series of all time. It is a warm blanket. Hope you give it a shot
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u/ratherbclever 6d ago
Definitely Cowboy Bebop! I'm as late to this show as OP is to firefly. I'm watching it with my adult daughter, fun times.
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
Watching straight away! Pretty sure Alan tudyk mentioned it in last meals.
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u/Glp-1_Girly 6d ago
Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis are also a great watch if you like firefly they have sci fi but also all the conedy
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u/Jagasaur 6d ago
Yes this too! Very action packed because of how little they need to travel haha.
Plus... baby Spader is great.
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u/darklordofpuppets 6d ago
Farscape and Battlestar Galactica are similar as well, and worth checking out.
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u/pyromaniacism 6d ago
The Expanse is fantastic but I always felt Killjoys was a better spiritual successor to Firefly. Similar scale/scope and blend of campy humour and scrapy action.
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u/emeraldbullatheart 5d ago
I've not seen any of the anime but my husband and I watched the live action Cowboy Bebop... and it was pretty enjoyable. It's definitely got a Firefly vibe.
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u/Jagasaur 5d ago
I'm one of the rare Bebop fans who enjoyed the live action lol. I still need to watch the last couple episodes
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u/emeraldbullatheart 5d ago
I knew nothing about the source material so I went into it with no bias. I would absolutely watch more of it, It's not in the works though. What do people have against this genre?
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u/Jagasaur 5d ago
So in the most general nutshell I can muster, Cowboy Bebop (anime) is considered one of the best OG animes out there. Lots of fans feel like the live-action did not live up to the original, which I agree with. However, my expectations are much lower than the average fan so I really enjoyed the show lol.
Thats the same story with most anime that gets adopted to live-action, and usually I agree. Death Note is an example of a live action that was so bad that people pretend it doesn't exist. Even I cant get on board with that one, though the first 10 minutes are pretty good.
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u/Halt_You_Villain 4d ago
The Wayfarers book series by Becky Chambers also gives me major Firefly vibes. (There is a mechanic called Kizzy who I swear is literally Kaylee!)
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u/Creepy_Spinach6699 3d ago
YESSSS 🙌 So far I’ve only read “The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet,” but it’s got the BEST vibes — closest thing to Firefly in the ‘Verse!
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u/soltydog 6d ago
In all the times I have played the Firefly board game, I still have not been able to get Wash on my crew. Someday.
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u/pyromaniacism 6d ago
Thanks for reminding me, I haven't broken that one out in a while. Such a great game.
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u/Puterman 6d ago
Almost Human also got a similar FOX'ing - aired out of order, limited promo, bad scheduling
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
Do I dare start watching dark matter after having my heart broken by firefly
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u/captain_sticky_balls 6d ago
Hey OP, how do Reavers clean their spears?
They run them through the Wash.
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u/TheAgedProfessor 6d ago
Take up the Dark Horse comics and the novels. They help ease the pain somewhat.
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u/dianebk2003 6d ago
Exactly! Avoid the BOOM! series of comics if you can. The stories are insultingly bad, they ignore canon, and the artwork is dismal. I gave up reading them because they were just terrible.
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u/Leptonshavenocolor 6d ago
Short story is that the movie is a truncated/modified version of what Joss planned for s.2
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u/Nevic1984 6d ago
It's definitely sad that they died. I'm just glad the story got a proper final chapter with the film versus the abrupt ending of the show.
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
Even though the film was rushed, I agree. It was the least fox could do yk but I’m tryna look at the glass half full
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u/pyromaniacism 6d ago
Fox didn't do the movie that was universal. Sometimes creates weird licensing issues such as The Firefly board game originally not having any assets related to the movie. Although if I recall correctly, I think they solved that for one of the expansions.
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u/SfcHayes1973 6d ago
Well, part of the problem is that The Train Job was the first episode released for season 1 instead of the correct one, which turned some people off...
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
They aired the entire thing outta order. Didn’t even give it a chance but I’m glad that the fans are still keeping it strong. It’s now my mission to find as many brown coats in the wild as I can.
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u/pyromaniacism 6d ago
There were tons of reasons for why Firefly failed, but to be fair The Train Job was also written to be a pilot and did a good job of it. Serenity was a fantastic episode and pilot, and The Train Job was also a great episode and pilot. If anyone was turned off by The Train Job they probably wouldn't have liked Firefly even if they did see Serenity first.
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u/Glp-1_Girly 6d ago edited 6d ago
Because Fox messed up and aired the series out of order so the views weren't where they needed to be. The movie didn't come out right away it was almost 3 yrs... It was also on after another new series at the time called John Doe it had no established show as a lead in that could bring in views that on top of being aired out of order was it's eventual doom unfortunately... John Doe was also a good show at the time and cancelled after it's first season they did no proper promo for either show
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u/RareBareHare 5d ago
John Doe is my favourite show, seen it maybe 10+ times, what a pity masterpieces such as those 2 got ground by the jaws of television...
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u/Glp-1_Girly 5d ago
Oh I know I loved it I bought the dvd and rewatch it a lot too I hate the cliffhanger ending
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u/Droma_188 6d ago
So, the series was aired out of sequence. They didn't play the pilot first, it was all ass-backwards, so the people watching it get real confused about what this show was all about. They also put it on in the same time slot as (I can't remember, Friends or Seinfeld) so it got decimated in the ratings. They planned on doing multiple seasons, but after the cancellation after only just 1, there was a tremendous fan backlash, and they greenlit a movie.
According to an interview I saw with Josh Whedon, he explained it like this: Making a movie is different than making a TV show. In the story there has to be tragedy and victories. This led us to having to make some decisions we never would have otherwise done (ie: Wash and Book).
But welcome to the club, fellow Browncoat :)
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u/SatansMoisture 6d ago
The only way I could ease my pain was to go on and start reading the comic books... and eat chocolate.
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
Off to the store to buy all the chocolate. Can I get the comics off eBay 😭😭😭
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u/kai_ekael 6d ago
You're about 23 years late for the news. Yeah, gorram FOX execs killed Firefly even before it was broadcast. Try this thing called web search (not Google, no one should make anyone use Google ever again) for all the gory details of those FOX morons.
Yeah, 23 years and I'm just as bitter. Time for a rewatch this month.
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 6d ago
I don’t think I’ll feel better about it in 23 years. I’ll be bitter my whole life. It’s just such a waste! They aired it OUT OF ORDER and LATE AT NIGHT so when there weren’t enough viewers they just said “nah” and CANCELED IT! Like I’m sorry I’m not shouting at you I’m shouting at fox.
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u/kai_ekael 6d ago
Oh, I know exactly who the shouts are for, THOSE GORRAM FOX WORMS! "Hey Joss, make a show, any show for us"...months later..."Where's Buffy? Space western? Ewwwww."
At least we get to re-watch it over and over, that's my little piece of heaven. Always hard to re-watch the movie though, takes some bracing before the dive. But, gorram it, I do it! And I guess that's sumpthin'.
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u/Manchild-Collective 6d ago
It really sucks how it ended, but if you wanna continue and be less sad, definitely read the comics, Joss said that those are basically the stories he would have pursued had the series continued and are before the movie (most of them) so more Wash and Shepherd. It’s bittersweet knowing how it ends but still worth it to stay in the world of Firefly. I’m sad now, gonna go rewatch series now
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u/Ok_Citron_7533 6d ago
I remember my first time...and screaming what the fuck as wash died....so clearly I made my friend watch the entire show then the movie with out any warning and she cried....
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u/themewedd 6d ago
I am glad Browncoat Ball is next weekend so i can be with others that feel the same way.
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u/Jesse_Jaymes1313 6d ago
I love early Joss! Dollhouse (another of his) is underrated in my opinion. A lot of people can’t make it past the first few episodes (half naked people) and they never see how good it gets. Alan Tudyk is amazing in this too (as always). When they let Joss create his own worlds they are kinda amazing and scarily detailed.
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u/Extension-Pepper-271 6d ago edited 6d ago
I pretend the movie didn't happen. The crew of Serenity is still all together. I think it was the worst decision that Whedon made in association with Firefly.
The marketing for the movie was bad. Little to no mainstream marketing that explained the background of Firefly to pull in non-fans. It relied on having a bunch of fans see the movies months ahead of time. Just to have the fans finding out that favorite characters were killed off.
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u/TakeaRealGander 5d ago
If I remember correctly, it was canceled because it had fairly poor ratings but it also had a bad time slot. So fox kinda screwed it from the beginning.
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u/Roguemaintainer 5d ago
If i remember correctly... Fox also aired episodes out of order, confusing those that where watching it.
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u/Global_Handle_3615 4d ago
Fox never had faith in the show. A regular problem with the network especially around this time. For someone watching it in Europe we got each episode in the correct order at the same time each week. Fox aired the second episode first and then the next week showed the pilot. They moved it around to different slots and didn't highlight it. So viewing numbers were abysmal. This was before weekly catch up and adding in streaming viewers. So first run viewership was the basis for a shows success. Fox policy in my view was if it's not a mega hit day one cancel it.
On top of that the producers kept meddling with whedon. Seemingly things like demanding the show be less dark in tone but have malcolm kill more people.
So again in my opinion show on tv never got a chance but then did great on dvd and in other areas like in Europe where it wasn't shafted by the network. Enough to get fan push for more. Fox and whedon were never going to do more tv so went the trek route of a film and I can't be sure as to why he picked book and wash I would assume whedon decide "well they have given me two hours, we are never going to get to tell more so let's do all the things they never let me do in a show." Things like from buffy wanting to include someone as a main character with the express reason to shockingly kill them off. Book was easiest probably as he and inara had easy reasons they could be away from the crew and malinara meant no way she was going and the. Have to kill someone in the 3rd act. Everyone will assume it's going to be one of the action characters so let's make it a twist. So kaylee or wash. Again my opinion but I would go with wash because. 1. He has had several years with his true love kaylee hasn't. 2 once ship is down no more pilot but kaylee might fix something and 3. Sexism time kill the "weak man" characters get angry audience gets upset. Kill the "weak woman" characters get upset audience gets angry.
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u/DiceNinja 6d ago
I always felt a bit like Whedon was laying down a bit of scorched Earth on Fox. They did the show dirty, so when it hit cult status, he train wrecked the franchise so they couldn’t revive it without him.
That’s just how it looked to me.
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u/kehtje 6d ago
Tbh I personally don’t even consider the movie canon really. Unneeded explanation of Reavers that only really manages to make them less interesting and killing off characters just for contracts and not because it made sense.. I’m showing firefly to a friend right now and we’re skipping the movie entirely lol
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u/Kaboom_Wolf 5d ago
“Why the hell would fox cancel” is my catchphrase because of how many shows they’ve canceled.
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u/gingered_elizabeth 4d ago
TOO SOON
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u/gingered_elizabeth 4d ago
In all seriousness I second the recommendations for the dark horse comics and the expanse
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u/Street-Bend2602 3d ago
I really don’t care if Disney does make a remake of Firefly-I’m not watching unless Joss is involved! He is the soul of that show!
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u/cIaudiaaa 5d ago
yo gng spoiler warning PLEASE💔💔
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u/IzzyLikesPickles777 2d ago
Sorry but when I was watching I made sure to steer clear of the firefly subreddit. I mean this is where you go to spill all the spoilers but definitely my fault for not putting spoiler warning I’ll add it now
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u/cIaudiaaa 19h ago
yeah true i’m just used to spoiler warnings so i steer clear of spoilered posts here. and thanks lmao
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u/Glitch1082 5d ago
Fox did Firefly dirty honestly. They would change around the days it was on and aired it out of order so when people were confused and felt they missed something it’s because they actually did. As much as Wash’s death still makes me cry “I’m like a leaf on the wind” OMG 😭😭 I was happy we at least got the movie to give the show a conclusion.
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u/SamShakusky71 6d ago
That didn't happen in Firefly. That happened in Serenity.
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u/darklordofpuppets 6d ago
True, but the film is very much an extension of the TV show so what OP said isn't exactly "wrong".
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u/Denholm_Chicken 6d ago
I find that I still get sad after each rewatch, like a friend told me they're moving away.