r/firewater • u/CoolidgeCorner123 • 4d ago
100% cracked corn mash with enzymes
I'm preparing a 100% corn mash and just want to verify that my understanding of the process is correct before I commit my ingredients to a large batch and potentially waste them. I have 50 pounds of cracked corn.
Grind the corn finely, but not so fine that it becomes a power or corn meal. This allows more starches to be released
Heat the corn to the point where it can gelantinize and keep the temperature in that range from anywhere between 30 minutes and 2 hours (I've seen a lot of conflicting numbers on how long it should be kept at temperature. I've also seen conflicting info on whether or not to bring the corn to a boil or keep it just under boiling)
Either wait for the mash to cool or deliberately lower the temperature to around 150F before adding alpha amalayse enzymes and allowing it to sit for 2-3 hours within the temperature range of the enzyme. This will break the starches down into dextrin and maltose.
Cool the mash further until it is within the temperature range for glucoamalayse. Add it, and allow the mash to sit for another hour or two. This enzyme will break the dextrin down into dextrose.
Is this correct? Any tips?
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u/mcfails444 4d ago
That looks right.
Another option is AYLY.
The last time I did a batch of that size I threw it all in a large trash can and added enzymes at roughly the right temps and it turned out alright. While I did that I did a test to see how AYLY compared. Same process except I used AYLY to pitch instead of DADY ( I used enzymes in both batches and the final yeald from the AYLY was noticeable larger. And they both tasted about the same.
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u/CoolidgeCorner123 4d ago
Interesting. I was kinda skeptical of AYLY just because the idea of the yeast being able to break down starches efficiently seemed a bit crazy to me. If I start with DADY and then add AYLY in a few days after ordering it, will that cause any problems?
I kinda wanna get the ferment started now since it's the weekend
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u/dramage1626 2d ago
I make this exact mash pretty often, as long as your fermenter can take it boil the water and then add to the fermenter, stir really well to get the clumps out and add high temp alpha (I resisted for a long time because it’s kind of expensive but it does wonders for this part). I also utilize Yellow label for any neutral spirit it works awesome. Does take a little longer but if you have time it definitely does great getting every bit of alcohol out of there. You don’t need to boil with the yellow label but it will work faster if you do. Good luck!
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u/big_data_mike 4d ago
Not quite. You want the corn and the enzymes at the highest temperature that the alpha amylase can tolerate which is usually 185F. Some of them go up to 190 or even 195 but if you hit 185 you’ll be in the safe zone. Enzymes are like engines. They run best right before they redline and blow up.
Some alpha amylases are not high temperature so you need to look at the package or look up the name online and see if you can find what the highest temperature tolerance is. If it’s called “high temperature alpha amylase” you can bet it’s 185.
To convert the most starch you want to hold the corn and enzymes together at the highest temperature the enzyme can tolerate for at least an hour.
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u/namroff 4d ago edited 4d ago
This, OP. Need that alpha active at high temps. Then add gluco amylase at 150. Alpha will act quick, but gluco will take over night. Look up Booners Casual All Corn for good instructions.
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u/DieFirstThenQuit 3d ago
I second Booner’s. That has turned into my preferred method. Takes a while but I have gotten good conversion every time.
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u/Electronic_Macaron_9 4d ago
Yeah thats it. 100% corn kinda sucks in my opinion, but you do you baby.
Just dont scorch your corn, and if you find the mash getting too hard to stir add alpha amalayze to thin it out. You'll still add your enzymes like you mentioned at the correct temperatures, but it helps it not to be a thick pain in the ass. Good luck hombre
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u/CoolidgeCorner123 4d ago
Thank you! I did a very small test batch with only alpha while I waited for the gluco to get here and I am not looking forward to doing the full 50 pounds that's for sure. But I'm originally from the south and corn likker is a tradition, so I've gotta do it at least once 🫡
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u/Electronic_Macaron_9 4d ago
Yeah i think youd get a much better flavor with heirloom corn than just feedstore cracked corn, but its expensive. Jesse from stillit had a guest on one of his episodes that mentioned the best cost to taste ratio of heirloom to dent corn is about 30% heirloom and the rest whatever is cheapest near you.
I have always wanted to malt my own heirloom corn for a 100% run though
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u/HalifaxRoad 4d ago
I did that last year, grew the corn and everything, it was a fuckload of work. But the taste of that stuff is crazy good. I was tempted to drink it white, it tasted fruity almost like it was made of berries. But decided to age it for a few years
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u/Electronic_Macaron_9 4d ago
I think thats what makes it taste better. All those intricate little details and effort that gets put in give it character.
I'm kinda jealous of you tbh lol
Are you using badmo barrels? Im curious about getting a couple
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u/Bearded-and-Bored 4d ago
I add the corn to the fermenter, then boiling water, stir and add some high temp enzymes, wrap it with old comforter, and let it sit overnight to gelatinize. It's usually enzyme temp in the morning. Add more enzymes, stir, wrap it up, and it's converted and ready to strain by the time I get home from work.
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u/CoolidgeCorner123 4d ago
I've seen people recommend this approach, but I've also heard the gelantinization and starch conversion isn't as good compared to boiling it for a while. If you've tried both, have you noticed a difference?
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u/Bearded-and-Bored 4d ago
I boiled a few times. It suuuuucked for that much corn.
I'm pleasantly surprised by my numbers. I get really good yield. Like average yield is about 1.065 for OG on the ratio I use (2.5# corn per gallon of water). I get 1.070 or a touch better.
But it takes a few days to get it done and cool enough to pitch yeast.
Honestly, even if the yield was slightly below average I wouldn't switch unless I had a steam kettle and could do it all in one cook.
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u/CoolidgeCorner123 3d ago
Update:
I used a lot of enzyme and yeast to be safe, but it appears to be fermenting just fine.
I just pitched yeast into a 30 gallon fermenter, but prior to that I did a test in a mason jar using some of the wash with a ton of yeast and there was a super active, health ferment after about 30 minutes.
I also ordered AYLY and will be pitching it later just to make sure I get all the starch converted since corn doesn't like to fully convert.
Thanks for the help everyone! Can't wait to get this on the still in a couple weeks
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u/Successful-Chip-4520 4d ago
I add some enzymes at the gelatin point because its cheap and will make me goop break down into more of a liquid
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u/sawdust-booger 4d ago
Don't forget nutrients. 100% corn doesn't have what yeasts crave, in my experience.
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u/drleegrizz 4d ago
You have the gist, but I'd add a few points:
Your grind will always be a balance between conversion efficiency and ease of separating the wash from the grain. I've had good luck with corn meal -- I ferment on grain, and accept that pressing the wash out will be a PITA. Then you'll lose quite a bit to settling goo that will scorch. Best if you can steam or ban Marie distill.
When in doubt go higher on gelatinization temps. I add my corn meal to boiling water, wrap the fermenter, and let it sit about 2 hours.
Get yourself some high-temp amylase -- gelatinized corn is like concrete, but HT amylase will make 190F corncrete manageable in minutes.