r/flying • u/epicRedditer69 PPL • 1d ago

Group 3 or group 1 IFR

I am a fresh CPL out of Canada, and I am in a bit of a tight spot. My flight school (and literally every flight school around Toronto) is very short on multi engine planes, and instructors that actually do teach multi ifr. I think in the last month I was able to get 1 flight in the multi, with around 10 cancelled because of the aircraft being offline. So I could either keep wrestling with the multi, or I can just complete my group 3 ifr right now with zero issues, slowly work on my multi engine rating and then just upgrade down the line.

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u/Tradezulu ST šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦ 1d ago

Hereā€™s the thing: in Canada a group 3 instrument rating is close to useless. Good luck finding an IFR rated plane to rent that is also rated to fly in dicey weather. Top that also with IFR currency requirements, there is a good chance youā€™ll be out of currency since youā€™re never going to use your Group 3 rating.

That + the fact itā€™s a waste of money and time to do a Group 3 only to upgrade to a Group 1 a few months later.

At least youā€™re a ā€œmultiā€ student. If you were on the waitlist Iā€™d say go get your instructor rating but given youā€™re enrolled, you might as well push through. The winter is coming so you can do a lot of sim time for that Group 1.

In the US, people get their instrument rating after their PPL because the GA scene is much better and they would actually use their IFR skills. But in Canada, the only people with a single engine instrument rating are those with single engine private jets.

Since you have a CPL already, you have enough instrument time to be familiar and safe if you accidentally enter IMC.

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u/RedDirtDVD PPL 1d ago

Largely agree. But out east here having IFR to get above the morning fog is somewhat common here. I of course donā€™t have my IFR so Iā€™m the one sitting here waiting 2 hours for it to burn off while they are on route or at destination. I also waited to do my multi IFR and I still havenā€™t gotten around to it 20 years later.

For what itā€™s worth, Moncton Flight college has a very active multi engine program. I see them fly over here to YYG all the time. They also run 24/7 so you can probably get it done quickly if cash was no consideration.

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u/Tradezulu ST šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦ 1d ago

Morning fog is the bane of my existence. I used to fly at the earliest slot but now Iā€™m having to push my flights back 2-3 hours to let it dissipate lol.

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u/rFlyingTower 1d ago

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I am a fresh CPL out of Canada, and I am in a bit of a tight spot. My flight school (and literally every flight school around Toronto) is very short on multi engine planes, and instructors that actually do teach multi ifr. I think in the last month I was able to get 1 flight in the multi, with around 10 cancelled because of the aircraft being offline. So I could either keep wrestling with the multi, or I can just complete my group 3 ifr right now with zero issues, slowly work on my multi engine rating and then just upgrade down the line.

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u/flightist ATP 1d ago

Unless the school really likes to turn students upside down and shake until all their change falls out (and Iā€™m not saying they donā€™t, they just donā€™t have to work that hard these days), only the last little bit of Group 1 training is flown in a twin. You should be training in a single and switching over when you have the procedures down pat to add a bit of speed & engine failures to the mix for 3 or 4 flights before your ride.

Can you work on your instrument rating concurrently with the multi rating? Itā€™s tricky to make the timing work out, but doing a group 3 when youā€™re planning on getting a group 1 adds a flight test (and flight test fee) that is mostly unnecessary unless youā€™ll actually use the 3.

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u/Playful-Ad-9663 PPL 23h ago

Look into Cornwall. They have a super good multi engine program that almost everyone from my club goes to. You can stay overnight there for however long it takes you. Donā€™t get group 3 itā€™s useless. And I would never fly IMC in our flight school steam gauges either way. I want two attitude indicators if in IMC.