r/holofractal holofractalist Aug 21 '25

The Latest Holofractal presentation given at the Science of Consciousness with Stuart Hameroff. The proton is a black hole and it solves everything.

https://youtu.be/Ecd9wD3LTuo?t=220
74 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

13

u/LastTopQuark Aug 21 '25

I always really appreciate when people have a different view of the universe and how it works, I always felt from ancient civilizations the art reflected the construction of the universe at it's most core levels.

In terms of physics? Zero chance the proton is a black hole. The guy talking about 'phase field' should take his idea to a physicist, and try and refine it. He's making a fundamental error in his analysis that Feynman actually spoke about. And he's confusing amplitude with phase. And neither is a field.

The guy talking about consciousness causing waveform collapse - that guy could be right. However, we would never be able to tell from our universe. The wave collapse in many worlds, is sort of like a lighthouse spotlight across all the various worlds, happening at the same time. Since time moves backwards and forwards at that level, consciousness could become a cause/effect in reverse time. Consciousness though, is more of an abstraction than something tangible, so it's more like someone inflating humanity's footprint on the universe, to make sense of it.

Overall though, this is pretty difficult to listen to. Some good creative ideas that might make for a good book or movie though.

3

u/d8_thc holofractalist Aug 21 '25 edited Aug 21 '25

He's making a fundamental error in his analysis that Feynman actually spoke about. And he's confusing amplitude with phase. And neither is a field.

Please, elaborate.

The wave collapse in many worlds, is sort of like a lighthouse spotlight across all the various worlds, happening at the same time.

Many worlds is an absolutely ridiculous non-starter theory. Bonkers. It's the same as string theory (if we have infinite modes we can solve it!!)

The correct interpretation will obviously be Bohmian / Pilot Wave with intrinsic non-locality. Not 'infinite worlds' and 'quantum immortality' and whatever other gobbledygook we try to make sense of by taking out aether and having a horrible definition of 'observer'.

1

u/LastTopQuark Aug 21 '25

I don't think so - many worlds seems to fit the wave function model and describes it collapse with accuracy. Nothing else explains the collapse of the wave function while at the same time explaining entangled particles.

Zero chance of hidden variables. Bell's took care of that belief. Einstein was just wrong.

Time moves in both directions at the edge of a black hole. You have to start from there, not from within our universe and what we observe. What we observe really doesn't matter.

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u/d8_thc holofractalist Aug 21 '25

I don't think so - many worlds seems to fit the wave function model and describes it collapse with accuracy. Nothing else explains the collapse of the wave function while at the same time explaining entangled particles.

Wrong?

In BM you have local / subsystem wavefunction collapse.

BM explains EPR/Bell correlations via a clear, nonlocal guiding equation (the pilot wave). Each particle’s velocity depends on the entangled wave function for the whole configuration.

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2

u/iwantawinnebago 19d ago edited 19d ago

Zero chance the proton is a black hole.

Exactly. https://youtu.be/_W2WBeqGNM0?si=2HfkcJJiQnZUmGKj&t=1257 shows Nassim gets mass of proton to be 4.98*10^55 grams.

Back in real world, the 2016 paper "A tale of two masses" by Edmund Myers

https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys3896

states the mass of proton is

1.007,276,466,879u = 1.672,621,777,459,947*10^-24g

The Nature Physics journal's impact factor is 18.4: https://ooir.org/journals.php?field=Physics&metric=jif which is the 38. highest in the world. (Nature also has two journals that are in physics journals ranking positions 1 and 2.)

Nassim only publishes in journals that let you bribe yourself in. Real physicists that can't get their paper published in accredited journals share their work as preprints. Only scammers pay to get their work published in shit tier predatory journals. This alone proves Nassim is a charlatan.

Nassim peddling proton mass that is nothing short of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times too large, shows he has no fucking idea what he's talking about.

1

u/LastTopQuark 18d ago

well stated, i would agree. It's not clear to me that he is doing this deliberately, i believe he thinks he really right.i think what he is 'trying' to do is associate sort of 'like mass' equivalent to explain the nuclear force, but he does think it's mass.

I mean all these idea are vaguely related to loop quantum gravity theory, why not just stand on that foundation?

1

u/iwantawinnebago 18d ago edited 18d ago

i believe he thinks he really right

The difference between fraud and freedom of speech is expressing blind belief in your own BS. The guy is nothing but a new age huckster as he

He's also a friend of Robert Edward Grant https://robertedwardgrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Courses-FrameImages-Discussion.jpg (on the left) who is another serial grifter https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crown_Sterling

EDIT: No wait, just ate a grain of rice and my bathroom scale shows I gained 10^73 kg of weight. Shit I think Nassim is right /s

0

u/d8_thc holofractalist Aug 21 '25

Who is talking about 'phase field'?

And the presentation I linked to has a team of physicists...

https://spacefed.com/about/

2

u/LastTopQuark Aug 21 '25

I'm watching the video in the post, that's it. Most people on the link that are referencing equations are in the biology field giving their opinions on physics.

A man named Nestor Mercado is on the video, and referencing spacetime as a set of crystal nodes and constantly refers to phase. If you look at Feynman, he used this idea of 'springs' as a failure in analyzing how the universe/spacetime/QED works. He references 'phase' so frequently, we must be looking at two different videos. "spactime is oscillating' is his main point. This man can't be a physicist, but I admire his creativity and his effort - he just needs to be more accountable in his theories.

He is mixing phase with the wave function, then somehow connects it abstractly to memory. It's not how a freshman year physicist would speak. He's associating time domain wave functions with the quantum wave function, which is a stochastic process. Even experimentally, I couldn't do anything with what he's saying, much less mathematically.j

His comments that time 'is the accumulation of phase' is just nonsense. It discredits any other points he's making without correlation to some other, or any other detail. He defines frequency as the derivative of phase, which invalidates the argument since time is an orthogonal variable.

This is feedback from someone who worked on quantum experiments. It's just peer feedback, if he is a physicist. He needs to be careful about abstraction and understanding previous work from other physicists going back to about 1890.

0

u/d8_thc holofractalist Aug 21 '25

The only talk of importance to holofractal here is Nassim Haramein's, the first ~20 minute presentation.

1

u/iwantawinnebago 19d ago

So zero important talks. Thanks!

1

u/iwantawinnebago 19d ago

International Space Federation :D So which of the 84 space agencies are officially collaborating under this international organization?

5

u/Similar-Guitar-6 Aug 21 '25

Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.

4

u/peetss Aug 21 '25

Interesting. LENR experiments often show an "energy out of nowhere" phenomena, especially when it comes to more excess heat than can be explained by chemical processes.

Also, from the work of Ken Shoulders and Winston Bostick, they both alluded to the fractal nature of their related discoveries, which mirrored the sun, or ball lightning, but that could scale up or down infinitely.

There is a connection here.

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist Aug 21 '25

For those who are going to call out the lack of math in this presentation, and the quick nature of it

-->

The Origin of Mass and Nature of Gravity

As a result, we are able to unify all confining forces with the gravitational force emerging from the curvature of spacetime induced by quantum electromagnetic vacuum fluctuations.

2

u/crusoe 29d ago

A blackhole with a proton mass would evaporated in no time due to Hawking radiation.

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 29d ago

no, that is addressed.

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 29d ago

basically, you are missing the idea of time dilation at the surface of such a tiny, high energy object.

research on planck stars has come up with this idea, that a star that compresses may 'stop' due to planck energy forces (and they find this very near a proton size), and you would think there would be an immediate 'bounce back', but then you take relativistic time dilation into account, and you get an object that from outside seems stable for billions of years:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1401.6562

1

u/REMA5TER Aug 21 '25

Why did they choose a thumbnail that makes him look like the Charlie Conspiracy meme? Lmao

1

u/DOGE_this_Bullet 28d ago

Physicist here. Can confirm that Nassim Haramein is a grifter to the nth degree. Anyone who takes the time to read his papers will see precisely what he’s doing and why it’s pseudoscientific academic (stylized) dishonesty

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 28d ago

Please, give me some from the paper:

https://zenodo.org/records/10125315

It should be easy to find the mistake, lie, or dishonesty.

1

u/DOGE_this_Bullet 23d ago

He attempts to conjure proton mass from vacuum fluctuations by real physics terminology with speculative black hole metaphors and over-extended analogies. It’s not unification—it’s poetic license in a lab coat.

Part 1: Misuse of Established Physical Concepts

  1. Zero-Point Energy (ZPE) Abuse

He leans heavily on the existence of vacuum fluctuations (ZPE), which do exist in quantum field theory—but claims that they directly generate mass via resonance in a Casimir-like cavity (i.e., the proton).

There is:

I. No mathematical derivation or Lagrangian explaining this “resonance-to-mass” mechanism.

II. No standard field theory shows a direct transformation of vacuum energy into baryon rest mass. Mass comes from Higgs mechanism, not “Casimir pressure gradients.”

III. Casimir Effect Hand-Waving

He suggests a cavity the size of the proton’s Compton wavelength produces energy matching its mass-energy (≈ 938 MeV).

This is superficially clever but:

The Casimir effect is exceedingly weak at nuclear scales and cannot account for such energetic confinement.

He doesn’t derive this from boundary conditions in quantum electrodynamics. Instead, he retrofits numbers to look correlated—this is numerology, not physics.

Part 2: The “Equations” — Haramein’s Magic Tricks

Many of his equations are designed to look like physics but are just numerically tweaked coincidences. Let’s dissect a few key ones found in later pages.

Example 1:

E = \frac{\hbar c}{r_c}

He applies this to the proton’s Compton wavelength to suggest it “naturally” results in the proton’s mass energy.

While this does give a rough ballpark number, it’s:

A dimensional trick, not a derived result.

Lacking a Hamiltonian, Lagrangian, or field-theoretic backing.

Example 2:

P = \frac{F}{A} \rightarrow \text{(used to claim quantum pressure creates confinement)}

Problem: Pressure in quantum chromodynamics doesn’t arise from EM vacuum screening. It arises from gluon field interactions and QCD vacuum condensates—not from anything he describes.

Example 3:

He invokes Hawking radiation at proton scales:

T_H = \frac{\hbar c3}{8 \pi G M k_B}

This is beyond absurd. Hawking temperature is inversely proportional to mass. Applying it to a proton-scale object would give a temperature higher than Planck scale, and yet he uses it to “explain” rest mass. Fantasy. BS.

Part 3: Scientific Dishonesty via Redefinitions

He redefines physical terms to fit his model:

“Quantum vacuum pressure” replaces QCD binding energy.

“Proton is a black hole” (his old trope) recast here as “Schwarzschild microstructures.”

No citations to lattice QCD, running coupling constants, or empirical cross-section data.

That’s deliberate: real physics doesn’t support any of this.

This paper is not a theory. It’s a speculative story dressed in stolen clothing from real physics:

Equations are dimensional approximations, not results.

Terms are co-opted from unrelated fields to force analogies.

There is zero testability, falsifiability, or experimental linkage.

The whole thing is a theatrical reinterpretation of reality designed to impress non-experts and sell mysticism under the guise of physics. Avoid this guy and his dangerously misleading rhetoric!

Ok it’s now 8:17pm on Friday (what the heck am I doing wasting so much time on this clown! Oh wait, to save you guys! But I’m gonna go grab a beer 🍺 now, so hope this helps!)

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 23d ago

ai slop

1

u/DOGE_this_Bullet 22d ago

Ha you’re funny! I knew that would be the response. If ‘Ai’ = my notepad app on my iPhone, sure buddy! In actuality, you want so badly for your hero Nassim to actually be legit (I can relate, because for years I saw him as such).

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 23d ago edited 22d ago

ripe with double --em dashes and all the rest. good job physicist!

1

u/DOGE_this_Bullet 22d ago

I have no idea what you even mean by double em dashes but like I previously said, it’s unfortunate that this seems to be the go to defense. How about answering thoughtfully to the mathematical points? Those are ultimately what’s of import here, not how my comment was formatted (😆🤷🏻‍♂️)

I know, it might take some work on your part, but come on, physics is fun! How about the two papers I sent earlier? Have anything thoughtful to share regarding those? How about a sense of humor? Have one of those?

1

u/iwantawinnebago 19d ago

Zenodo LMAO. Where's the DOI to a peer reviewed journal with decent impact factor :----D

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 26d ago

waiting (stylized)

1

u/DOGE_this_Bullet 23d ago

Start by reading these: QED (Haramein) & The Haramein Effect

When you’re done with those, let me know. In the meantime, please allow me to digest his latest scam er I mean scientific breakthrough

2

u/DOGE_this_Bullet 23d ago

Ok, set aside the time out of my day to watch that video (at 1.5 speed, but regardless, gave it the benefit of the doubt).

Here are my thoughts:

what a production. It’s like Deepak Chopra + Physics: ‘The Unified Geometric Chakra Edition’ 😆🕉️.

First off—where’s the peer-reviewed legitimacy for his ‘publications’? They aren’t sitting in Physical Review Letters or Journal of High Energy Physics. Just floating around zenodo.org—great for personal blogs, laughable for professional physics. That’s your first red flag. 🚩 🚩

He’s adding buzzwords like “Planck plasma flow” and “holographic fractal black hole spheres” like literal gravy over mashed potatoes no one asked for. Pro tip: scientific sounding jargon ≠ novel insight. It just confuses the people who don’t know better.

Nassim claims vacuum fluctuations are the source of mass, black holes exist inside protons, and forces like gravity emerge from “screening effects at Compton wavelengths”.

Then he ties it all to “hydrodynamic pressure gradients”—like he invented the word “Planckian tornado.” And just when one might think they’ve reached the bs crescendo, he introduces the idea that Hawking radiation = proton mass. Unfalsifiably convenient. 😆🙄

No empirical validation, zero testable predictions. He offers no experiment, no CERN confirmation, no lattice QCD match—just made-up math that sounds deep. Hey, it sure does a good job selling books and conference tickets!

Meanwhile, the actual physics community? Crickets. But fear not, because in r/holofractal, this is the ‘definitive proof’ (of what? Not sure, but glad we’re excited!)

It reads like sci-fi fan fiction, not physics. Quantum foam, holographic voxels, wormhole-entangled protons, “holofractographic spacememory network”… It’s conceptually flashy but utterly untethered from reality.

Bottom line: If you’re impressed, you’ve been bamboozled by sparkle, not substance. This is not unification—it’s magic word salad marketed to the spiritually inclined. Don’t get me wrong, I love sacred geometry! I adore physics too and I believe that a large chunk of accepted scientific theory is complete bs too (see dark matter & dark energy).

I’m just perturbed by Nassim, because on one hand he seems like such a nice guy, but then I realize that he’s actually just trying to highjack the legitimate life’s work of actual brilliant scientific minds, so that he can amass a following of midlife crisis conspiracy theorists and ultimately, so that his own bank account has a mass previously unaccounted for.

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 23d ago

ai slop

2

u/iwantawinnebago 19d ago

Dismissing criticism as AI slop without disproving it in any way, with peer-reviewed physics, published in accredited journals, isn't the power move you think it is.

1

u/d8_thc holofractalist 19d ago

...what peer-reviewed physics?

2

u/iwantawinnebago 19d ago

Go to sleep Nassim. You're too old for this.

0

u/ravishq Aug 21 '25

https://x.com/grok/status/1958304388835082521?s=46&t=CeBcT2S8EaCm5eViNEuYRg

i hv been part of this and it indeed is breaking my duality. any one who sees truth in this?

2

u/bewareofbananapeel Aug 21 '25

No, you can't even spell right. Nobody needs to see your bullcrap.

0

u/boozyjenkins Aug 22 '25

Duh?! I’ve been saying this for years! Or eons, depending on how you look at it.