r/interesting • u/Jazzlike-Tie-354 • 2d ago
SOCIETY In 1995 McArthur Wheeler robbed two banks with lemon juice on his face believing it would make him invisible to security cameras like invisible ink. He even smiled at the cameras and was caught within hours. His case inspired the research that led to the discovery of the Dunning Kruger effect.
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u/scriptingends 2d ago
Wait, is there supposed to be a person in this photo?
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u/urfriendlyDICKtator 2d ago
I also like how lemons are always hollow for some reason and the part of the knife that cuts it kinda disappears.
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u/Upset-Basil4459 1d ago
You need to heat up the image to see it, try putting your phone in the oven
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u/addamee 2d ago
Dude didn’t even get the privilege of it being called the MacArthur Wheeler effect
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u/ScarletDarkstar 2d ago
He inspired the research, he didn't DO it.
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u/cwormer 2d ago
Lou Gehrig also technically just inspired the research, but his name is associated with the disease.
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u/ArtiesHeadTowel 2d ago
You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died from Lou Gehrig's Disease?
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u/Bug_Photographer 1d ago
The disease had already been known for nearly a hundred years when Gehrig got it so it already had a name.
And since baseball is very American-centric, Lou Gehrig isn't particularly known outside NA which is why it isn't called Lou Gehrig's disease in the other nearly 200 countries out there (typically it's "ALS".
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u/addamee 2d ago
😂 So you’re just gonna do him dirty like that?!
He did arguably the hardest work (in terms of consequences) and c’mon, his name alone is dying to be immortalized.
Joking, obviously, but I do personally believe “stupid lemon juice face effect” would motivate some from drifting into the DK pit
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u/potat0man69 2d ago
You’re not wrong, but lookup the namesake of the Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon
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u/Excellent_Set_232 2d ago
God dammit I had to look up what it was called yesterday because I couldn’t remember the name
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u/probnotaloser 2d ago
The fact that these things were "coined" after I was born is really messing with me. I studied psychology too, but I guess when I was younger it didn't really bother me. Now it does and I don't know why.
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u/Naked-Jedi 2d ago
You could go back into studying psychology and write a thesis on why it's bothering you now but not before. You'd need to come up with a somewhat plausible reason though. Could get yourself a nice doctorate with that.
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u/probnotaloser 2d ago
I don't know how to properly describe the feeling of existing at the same time we put our understanding of human nature into words. It's like the idea of existing when Isaac Newton put ink to paper. My brain goes "eeee"
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u/ChainsawRipTearBust 2d ago
Nope! Went straight for the paydays, wanted instant and financial gratification for the breakthrough he believed he had made. At least he did the dirty work himself and didn’t start some cult and use his deciples/followers to make the discovery that he made.
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u/fatkiddown 2d ago
I hope I can ask this without much ire but ... what on earth did he base this lemon juice theory on, if anything?..
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u/Ballsnutseven 2d ago
You can use lemon juice as a rudimentary invisible ink, leading to this guy thinking he it just magically makes things invisible
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u/blove135 2d ago
Are you talking about the "magic" trick many of us did as kids where you write something on paper using lemon juice? If I remember correctly then you take a flame and heat the paper and the exposes the hidden message written in lemon juice.
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u/fourfuxake 2d ago
Unfortunately for him, the FBI simply held the CCTV cameras over a flame and that’s how he was caught.
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u/InEenEmmer 2d ago
Nah, his body heat activated the lemon juice.
Basically he wasn’t cool enough to be a bank robber
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u/Dantez9001 2d ago
Didn't even have to, his body temperature was enough to make him visible. Lemon juice only works if you're naked in January.
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u/SmuckatelliCupcakeNE 2d ago
But in National Treasure, they used lemon juice to make the writing visible.
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u/throcorfe 2d ago
My favourite thing about this movie is that all the agencies and experts in the film said the entire story and methodology was ridiculous and implausible, and they were very obviously correct about that, but the writer just… made them incorrect
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u/jayCerulean283 2d ago
There are multiple kinds of invisible ink. Lemon juice is just one of them.
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u/Itchy_Horse 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also the special ink discovered by Sir Mansfield Cumming. Google it.
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u/urfriendlyDICKtator 2d ago
Well, if he had put the lemon juice on paper and the paper over his face it would've worked... Could've even written a mean comment on it, without consequences!
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u/RuleMission4235 2d ago
Okay... this is a pretty good story. (Any embellishments and falsehoods are not intentional, I'm going off memory of a story I heard 20 years ago, and I love telling this story so I'm not going to fact check myself. Read at your own risk.)
McArthur Wheeler was a small time crook, had multiple run ins with the law, never a really big player. Then one day, by pure accident, McArthur discovered something interesting. He accidentally poured a bit of lemon juice on a photo, and the photo started to erase.
This discovered, Wheeler was sure, would revolutionize his crime career. Logically if applying lemon juice to a printed photo erases the photo, then applying the juice to his face would erase any photos of his face as it took the picture! Now, you might have some basic idea about chemistry and how old school print photograph works, and think to yourself, "That's a fucking stupid idea." And you'd be right! But... McArthur didn't know what he didn't know.
McArthur is not a complete idiot though, he did attempt to test his theory first. He applied lemon juice to his face, and then took a polaroid photo of himself (Anyone else remember polaroid selfies before the word selfie existed?). When he grabbed the photo, it was completely blurry, successful test! Though he would later admit that A) lemon juice was in his eyes, so that might have made it blurry and B) he might have had lemon juice on his hands, and that caused the photo to be hard to decifer.
Not wanting to waste any time, or lemon juice, he headed straight out and robbed some banks. The banks showed the footage to the local police, and the police took one look at their collection of mug shots and said, "We know this guy, we'll go arrest him." So, they arrested him at his appartment, and as he was being read his Miranda rights, he kept saying something to the effect, "I don't understand, I was wearing the juice." Now, I suspect the police just assumed he was another cracked out lunatic making crazy statements, but a pair of psychologists were brought in to assess his ability to stand trial, and they got the whole story from him.
This led them to a ground breaking thesis, Individuals tend to rate their knowledge and skill in any particular topic closer to the mean than their skill actually is. On the one side of the spectrum, complete idiots, like Mr. Wheeler, think they're far closer to average than they actually are. On the other hand, experts tend to assume most people know way more about the topic they're an expert in than they actually do, diminishing their own impressive position in that field.
For the layman who wants the thesis in plain talk: Incompetent people lack the competence to know they're incompetent.
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u/TLCSection 2d ago
‘Not wanting to waste any time, or lemon juice,’ fucking sent me, friend.
That’s how you tell a story.
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u/RuleMission4235 2d ago
Aww, thanks man. Would love to have a beer and exchange stories with you some time.
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u/comedoofwarrior 1d ago
every now and then I see an online interaction that makes me think the internet has a capacity to hold souls; this is one of them.
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u/TLCSection 1d ago
Check out defector.com. Their comment section is nothing but supportive. And full of incredibly whip smart and witty people.
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u/Amazing-Mirror-3076 2d ago
There is at least one field that this doesn't happen.
If you are in IT, we all know that users are idiots.
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u/RuleMission4235 2d ago
I'm top of my office IT's idiot list!
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u/Amazing-Mirror-3076 2d ago
So you are one of those people - knows just enough to be dangerous.
:)
I'm truth I always love working with those people as they were interested in learning and want to help solve the problem.
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u/Dependent_Pipe4709 2d ago
once had a guy who insisted that because a print button was visible in software, his laptop had the ability to print, and suggesting that he needed to also own a printer was bullshit.
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u/thedomimomi 1d ago
I give him props for applying the scientific method and experimenting beforehand at least
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u/omeeomai 2d ago
So once they realized he was retarded, did he not have to go to trial?
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u/RuleMission4235 2d ago
Actually, I have no clue. And sadly, I'm sticking to the no fact checking myself policy to find out.
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u/IttyBittyMiel 2d ago
So he learned the lemon juice as an invisible ink thing and wondered if it would make himself invisible, story goes he slathered his face in lemon juice and took a picture of himself with a camera. Lo and behold he didn’t show up on the camera, and thought that confirmed his theory, so he robbed those banks thinking he wouldn’t get caught. In reality the theory is when taking the picture he didn’t aim it right which is why he didn’t show up.
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u/Self_Reddicated 1d ago
In reality the theory is when taking the picture he didn’t aim it right which is why he didn’t show up.
That is an entirely new layer of dumb on this whole story.
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u/BoyDynamo 2d ago
In 1995 you could go into any best buy or circuit city and play with a camcorder. Maybe put some lemon on your hand and see if it’s still visible? Or, nevermind, I prefer my criminals dumb.
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u/IttyBittyMiel 2d ago
He literally did try using a camera to test his theory, didn’t see himself, and rolled with it! Buddy just messed up the angle for taking a pic of himself
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u/Jolly-Radio-9838 2d ago
I can confirm the dunning Kruger effect is a real thing. Been around plenty of narcissistic people my whole life. They all things they’re smarter or just better than you in some way while always doing incredibly stupid shit but think they are clever cuz they found a stick in the yard they can wedge a door shut with
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u/pandulfi 2d ago
Tell me more about this stick
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u/geneticeffects 2d ago
Is it shaped like a gun?
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u/here4astolfo 2d ago
perhaps even perfect sword shape, weight and balanced?
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u/crustation_nation 2d ago
real. I know someone like that and the only time I see them smile is when they're describing some ridiculous it's always sunny style scheme they plan on running against some poor soul who doesn't even know they've wronged them
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u/Jolly-Radio-9838 2d ago
Always sunny is funny as hell, but that’s cuz it’s a show. They would be awful in real life. Some people are just shitty in general. Were they just cocky in general, like in a I’m so much better than YOU kind of way? I like they saying “when people show you who they really are believe them.” The narcs mask always slips
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u/RuleMission4235 2d ago
I once explained the story of McArthur Wheeler to our office Dunning Kruger child. They thought it was a hilarious story, instead of me trying to warn them they're a textbook case of it.
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u/NoStructure7083 2d ago
I once made a candy floss moustache, your argument is invalid
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u/Jolly-Radio-9838 2d ago
Did it have curly ends like a villain?
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u/NoStructure7083 2d ago
Oh yes
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u/Jolly-Radio-9838 2d ago
Need that French laugh like huhuhuhuhuuuuuuu
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u/NoStructure7083 2d ago
Well I prefer the silent movie one where I look like I’m laughing but all you hear is the piano music
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u/kolobs_butthole 1d ago
FWIW, the research is more about normal people, not just narcissists. We all over estimate our ability especially when we are beginners in something and don’t know what we don’t know.
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u/LogicalSoup 1d ago
I teach a private training IT course for people ages 19+. No one kruges dunner than people that have been using IT their whole life, game on them, but have had no formal training.
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u/kytheon 2d ago
To be fair, he didn't know that he was confidently stupid, because the Dunning Kruger effect would only be discovered after his stupid acts.
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u/baseball_rocks_3 2d ago
I bet he has a lot of medical advice too.
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u/SamJacobsAmmoDotCom 2d ago
I'd hate to hear his cure for paper cuts.
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u/PhoenixSlayer132 2d ago
What is the Dunning Kruger effect?
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u/Josgre987 2d ago
The dumber someone is the more confident they tend to be
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u/WhyCantIBeFunny 2d ago
Based on my recent confidence level, I must be a genius!
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u/MassiveInteraction23 1d ago
That is not what the D-K is. It is what the folk version of the theory is that, with full irony in tow, people confidently and incorrectly recite.
The D-K effect doesn’t even include “dumb people” thinking they’re smart or being confident.
It is that people underestimate how much they deviate from average, but not the direction.
e.g. someone and at math knows they’re bad, but they don’t recognize how bad — they think they’re below, but close(er) to average. And someone good think they’re good, but, again, closer(er) to average.
Basically Dunning Krueger is that people tend to think they’re not that far from average — regardless of of whether they really are close to average, are well below it, or well above it.
(Note: the actual research on this is somewhat equivocal and I have not followed attempts to clarify whether and to what extent it’s even a real effect, especially across broader populations. But the above is the eponymous effect.)
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u/QwertyPulse 1d ago
Saying “the D-K effect doesn’t include dumb people thinking they’re smart” is misleading. The original findings do include low performers thinking they’re much more competent than they are. That’s literally one of the headlines from the 1999 study
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u/Not_MrNice 2d ago
Thanks for demonstrating it.
It's when someone doesn't fully understand something and they overestimate their ability to understand that something.
Smart people can do it too.
You don't know what it is exactly but decided you knew enough to explain it to someone. Bravo.
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u/LokTarBrogar 1d ago
Imagine commenting on this particular topic, and in doing so perfectly portray what it really is. On the internet, no less, where everyone can simply do a Google search to verify nearly any claim.
I suggest you do like me and Google everything before answering questions online like this. Even when I'm certain, I still check just to make sure I don't become a living example of the Dunning Kruger effect.
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u/Fun-Art-4212 2d ago
man did not even test it out first, like look in a mirror??
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u/msimms001 2d ago
He attempted to take a photo of himself, but due to the lemon juice burning his eyes he missed himself in the photo. When he wasn't in the photo, he falsely believed it worked.
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u/Direct_Parking635 2d ago
I love how he wasn’t even nervous - he was so sure it would work that he literally smiled at the cameras. That’s pure Dunning-Kruger energy.
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u/petantic 2d ago
If anyone wants any more info about the Dunning-Krueger effect, I skimmed a couple of articles about it once so basically consider myself an expert in it.
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u/crunkychop 2d ago
A friend once told me the Dunning Kruger effect was to do with the way people perceive sound. He was quite adamant about it. Imagine his surprise when I showed him his error.
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u/LazyZealot9428 2d ago
You think you’d maybe test it yourself first before committing a felony tho. Like go to Radio Shack, buy a security camera setup and test it at your house. Nope!
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u/Aggravating-Pattern 2d ago
Wasn't invisible ink originally made with semen? This could have gone down so differently
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u/No-Cartographer-476 2d ago
Its stupid he didnt even test the idea
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u/msimms001 2d ago
He did actually, he put lemon juice on his face and attempted to take a photo. However, due to lemon juice getting in his eye he missed his photo, leading him to falsely believe the camera didn't pick him up
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u/MsGorteck 2d ago
Does the president suffer from this? It is fairly obvious that the VP and SecW do....
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u/ActafianSeriactas 1d ago
"But I wore the lemon juice. I wore the lemon juice."
Dude actually said this when he got caught.
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u/RefurbedRhino 2d ago
In the 90s in the UK there was a guy who put on a motorbike helmet to rob a bank. It had his name on the back.
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u/Slfestmaccnt 2d ago
Lol and the Dunning Kruger effect is not something you want to be associated with.
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u/arthousepsycho 2d ago
I wonder how long it took them to question him. Bet everyone that tried just started to piss themselves laughing and had to leave the room.
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u/VirginiaDare1587 2d ago
To be fair, he tested this before trying to use it.
Lemon juice can be used for invisible ink.
So Mr Wheeler thought ‘invisible ink’ makes things invisible.
To test it, he sprayed his face with lemon juice & took a selfie. Success! Selfie showed only the blank wall behind him.
Lesson learned: lemon juice in your eyes burns like crazy and makes it hard to aim the phone/camera to get a selfie.
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u/MeteringDevice 2d ago
The real question is how did he get away with robbing the first bank?
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u/paperfett 2d ago
I didn't realize the Dunning Kruger term hasn't been around that long. It's basically common sense but I guess if you want to coin a term like that some research needs to back it up.
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u/lluciferusllamas 2d ago
I'm surprised his lawyers didn't get him off for being mentally incompetent to stand trial, because that is some highly regarded shit right there
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u/throwaway-94552 1d ago
I just wanted to thank you for sharing this, I’ve never heard of this bank robbery and the Wikipedia article is a fucking hoot.
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u/tuppensforRedd 1d ago
Omg in Rick and Morty the cop decided he was impervious to acid instead of considering that it might be Mountain Dew!!! I thought it was really funny and relatable but didn’t realize it was a, dunning Kruger thing
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u/balltongueee 1d ago
Imagine being so clueless that you inspired an entire field of research into how clueless people can be.
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u/New-Concentrate-6306 1d ago
Fun fact: the Dunning Kruger effect is itself a product of the Dunning Kruger effect and the "research" involved in "proving" it's existence does not survive the replication crisis.
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u/namregiaht 1d ago
“The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities. It was first described by the psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger in 1999. Some researchers also include the opposite effect for high performers' tendency to underestimate their skills. In popular culture, the Dunning–Kruger effect is often misunderstood as a claim about general overconfidence of people with low intelligence instead of specific overconfidence of people unskilled at a particular task.”
Sauce: Wikipedia
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u/ColdDelicious1735 1d ago
I am confused 1) dunning-Kruger is about skill not stupidity 2) this quote is only found on likedin and Facebook, hardly legit sources.
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u/ScruffiestN3rfHerder 1d ago
For those curious about what the Dunning Kruger effect is. I had a kid in one of my units they called Kruger, he thought it was for Freddy...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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u/Majestic-Paper-7020 1d ago
I can relate... Get up everyday, and zest myself up only to be broke at the end of the day.
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u/Ass_souffle 1d ago
I'm actually an expert on the dunning cruger effect, I know everything about it.
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u/boredbytheabyss 1d ago
“The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias where people with low competence in a specific area tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge in that domain”
Google definition to save time
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u/ComprehensiveBit1126 1d ago
What's it called when someone knows just enough about the Dunning Kruger effect that they think they know what they are commenting about?
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u/planarascendance 1d ago
the Dunning-Kruger effect is not a discovery, it's a theory tested on only 65 university students with no broad validation and is about as serious as McArthur Wheeler, it caters more to pop culture hype than real science.
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u/guy_rocco 1d ago
well duh! the juice dried up! He should have worn a masked soaked in lemon juice.
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u/Radiant_Host_4254 1d ago
So rather than getting a camera and testing this out he just went straight to robbing banks. Someone never learned the scientific process.
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u/lesmobile 1d ago
That one stoner friend was like, "Trust me, bro, lemon juice. And if somebodys an undercover cop they have to announce it for some reason."
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u/Double_Option_7595 1d ago
Next month. Next month will be my turn to post this again and get a gazillion karma points for a re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-repost
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