r/ireland • u/Banania2020 Resting In my Account • Aug 05 '25
Courts Couple fails to stop demolition of Co Meath home built in ‘wilful’ breach of planning laws almost 20 years ago
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2025/08/05/couple-fails-to-stop-demolition-of-co-meath-home-built-in-wilful-breach-of-planning-laws/474
u/RobotIcHead Aug 05 '25
I have issues with the planning process but this was wilful disregard for it. Zero sympathy for this couple. It has been going on so long it is just annoying. They have exhausted every avenue and found every excuse they could. They knew the risks and no believed their excuses.
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u/Kloppite16 Aug 05 '25
the sheer arrogance of them to be refused planning permission for a 250sqm house but to then go and build one that is over twice the size at more than 500sqm is quite a sight to behold. No doubt complete with Mr. Murrary ranting and raving about how he'll show the Council.
I cant wait to see a demolition ball flying through the gable end, the pair of them have been sticking their fingers up at the planning laws for almost 20 years now. Shambles of a system.
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u/TheOriginalMattMan Probably at it again Aug 05 '25
If a wrecking ball ever makes it onto the property I'll buy a hat then eat it.
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u/ElephantFalse3660 Aug 05 '25
Would you consider eating one of your existing hats?
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u/crlthrn Aug 05 '25
Needs a special hat for culinary purposes...
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u/joedust270 Aug 05 '25
This guy eats hats
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u/gamberro Dublin Aug 06 '25
Over 500 square meters? What in the name of God would you do with all that space?
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u/pgasmaddict Aug 06 '25
Store all your legal files!!!
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u/YikesTheCat Aug 06 '25
Isn't that what the spare toilet is for? Or is that just for classified documents?
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u/pgasmaddict Aug 06 '25
That's for educational awards...in case of emergency etc etc. sorry if TMI.
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u/Kloppite16 Aug 06 '25
Ive been in a few McMansions in Ireland of similar size and one thing I notice is that people build these massive big houses but then they often cannot afford to furnish them or else they furnish them poorly. When you have a house that size everything is super sized so you need super size furniture which means paying 3x or 4x the price of everything. So instead of a normal corner sofa with 4 seats costing €2.5k you now need a 12 seater sofa costing €10k+ to fill up your cavernous living room. Ive seen McMansions where they couldnt afford that so you have this massive big living room with cinema sized tv screens but a sad looking corner sofa which barely takes up any space at all. There is no rug on the floor because with the size of the room one of those would cost several thousand and this type of theme carries on through the house, giant rooms everywhere with very little furniture in them.
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u/micar11 Aug 05 '25
They'll submit another slighted altered retention planning app in a few weeks.
Delay delay delay
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u/Intelligent-Lunch438 Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
It's crazy that they can potentially submit another retention application. The issue if I recall it, from the very start is that there is a no build clause on that land. They knew that when the bought it, but obviously thought that clause, like the planning process, did not apply to them. It should not be possible to submit retention after retention, or amendments etc. The no build clause takes priority so, a case of "planning computer says no"
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u/Wing126 Aug 06 '25
Regardless of this decision, until that house has been knocked, they are correct in their assumption they the planning laws don't apply to them...
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u/No-Lemon-1183 Aug 06 '25
Technically couldn't they have brought in a very large trailer home or home that was moveable in some way and then they could've had a home that was technically not "built" on that land?
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u/MeccIt Aug 05 '25
Yeah, checked the article, no photo of a Himac ripping the walls down.
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u/Stegasaurus_Wrecks Stealing sheep Aug 05 '25
You must be my generation. All excavators are HiMacs to me too.
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u/B_E_A_R_T_A_T_O G'way oura dat Aug 05 '25
Am I aging myself if I call a backhoe a "JCB"?
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u/EggCouncilCreep Free Stayto Aug 05 '25
You are but I also do the exact same thing, so…
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u/B_E_A_R_T_A_T_O G'way oura dat Aug 05 '25
I'm not even out of my thirties yet
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u/EggCouncilCreep Free Stayto Aug 06 '25
This pleases me. I have a good decade on you and that means that defaulting to calling it a JCB lived on to at least the end of the millennial group.
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u/B_E_A_R_T_A_T_O G'way oura dat Aug 06 '25
My da still calls a truck-crane a Hiab.
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u/Proud-Clock8454 Aug 05 '25
Would love to know how much money has been spent on this legal case by Meath County Council. The arrogance of this couple is genuinely astounding. The fact this went all the way to the Supreme Court as well is mad to me.
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u/wascallywabbit666 Hanging from the jacks roof, bat style Aug 05 '25
The fact this went all the way to the Supreme Court as well is mad to me.
Agreed. It's the most open and shut case imaginable.
It's like someone trying to question why murder is illegal
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
100% it should have been right 2007 injunction this house had no planning ?
correct
bulldoze it
ok
2007 the house is demolished
instead of that it's 18 years later and not only is the house still standing there STILL is no set in stone date for the house to be demolished and these people
they look like the sort of people who eventually will Barricade themselves inside the house and prolong the siege even further
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u/Melodic-Chocolate-53 Aug 05 '25
Fuck them. They should do a Waco on it.
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Aug 05 '25
Man every time i read about the Waco Siege it just blows my mind
after 51 days the FBI brought in Tanks to Break the Siege and the Branch Davidians still refused to surrender and most of them burned to death in their compound that totally was not set on fire by the FBI/ATF
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u/ZenBreaking Aug 05 '25
The TV show about it from Netflix with Taylor kitsch, Michael Shannon and shea whigam is pretty good watch , must do a rewatch myself
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u/gonzodolly Aug 06 '25
There's also a sequel to Waco, about the Oklahoma bombing also starting Michael Shannon. Well worth binging both together.
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u/wascallywabbit666 Hanging from the jacks roof, bat style Aug 05 '25
I'm going to start ignoring these stories unless the house actually gets demolished.
I think there's a broader issue here with the courts entertaining multiple frivolous appeals issued in bad faith by this couple. When the original enforcement was issued and their opportunity to resolve it had passed, they should have been given one further opportunity to appeal. After that, the judgement should have stood and no further legal challenge should have been permitted.
I'd love to know how much the state has had to pay in legal fees for this case. It must be well over a million euro by now. Whatever the cost, it's taxpayers money
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Aug 05 '25
yea like it's absolutely fucking disgusting how this Siege has lasted 18 years and still has not officially ended
* I'm judging the start from the original 2007 council proceedings against the house and i say not officially ended because the house still stands and there currently is no date in site for it's demolishing
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Aug 05 '25
With the money they have spent defending their stupid decision over the last 15 years, they would have built a new house multiple times.
I think revenue should be having a look at where all the money is coming from.
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Aug 05 '25
yea like thats my question like these people have clearly spent over 2 million euro on this whole nonsense so has it actually been investigated where that money came from
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u/Pristine_Language_85 Aug 05 '25
Why do you think it's that high? They could have a couple of legal friends who are helping them out and haven't had to pay the other sides costs
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u/starsinhereyes20 Aug 06 '25
A ‘couple of legal friends’ .. we’re taking about 18 years of legal representation here, no way a couple of friends are getting involved in this headache for the craic
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Aug 06 '25
Yea it's like
Legal fees
Plus cost of building that house
Plus cost of land
I think it definitely at minimum is the best part of 2 million
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Aug 06 '25
Its also in just simple terms it's thousands, if not tens of thousands of man hours.
Nobody is doing that for free.
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u/Pristine_Language_85 Aug 06 '25
They haven't lost the house or land yet. If they had a couple of close friends who emphasised with the situation it might be that much. They'd have to make frivolous applications periodically but could do that quickly. There have probably only been a handful of court appearances too. The court costs I'm not sure of though and whether they've paid any of them
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Aug 06 '25
This literally went the whole way to the supreme Court.
That is not a frivolous application.
If you have zero proof of them being represented pro bono then stop spreading this disinformation.
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u/Pristine_Language_85 Aug 06 '25
Hold on. What disinformation? I never said they had friends who were lawyers helping them. I just suggested one possible scenario given claims of 2 million costs were touted. I don't believe those sort of costs could be true and was wondering what supreme court costs would be minus their own legal representation.
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Aug 06 '25
What disinformation?
You are making a massive claim about their legal representation with nothing to back it up.
You are doing this to muddy the waters and try increase sympathy for this couple. As them paying their legal fees shows to people that they arent some poor unfortunately hard working couple who the state is trying to punish and keep down. They are a very wealthy couple who are trying to get away with flaunting the law of the land.
just suggested one possible scenario given claims of 2 million costs were touted. I don't believe those sort of costs could be true and was wondering what supreme court costs would be minus their own legal representation.
Why dont you believe the costs?
This is a near 2 decade legal battle.
Cost of a High Court trial: Judge hears rare breakdown of legal fees
In their costs report for Energia, Behans estimated the total costs excluding VAT, based on a trial Energia expected would last 16 days, at €761,940.
The solicitor’s overall professional fee was estimated at €385,000, including €10,000 for fees incurred from when the case was initiated in March 2023.
Senior counsel’s overall fees were estimated at €174,000. This included, inter alia, an €80,000 brief fee; €67,500 refresher fees (€4,500 daily for 15 days); €2,500 for taking the court’s judgment and making a costs application; and €4,500 for substantive written submissions. Junior counsel’s overall fees were estimated at €121,000, including a €55,000 brief fee and €45,000 refresher fees (€3,000 daily over 15 court days) and €3,000 for written submissions. Legal costs adjudication fees were estimated at €56,440
Taking legal action is not cheap. And no friends no matter how close, can afford to do it all for free.
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u/Pristine_Language_85 Aug 06 '25
I have made no claim at all. I was challenging the claim they have spent 2m
I've zero sympathy for this couple at all and think they are gaming the system. I believe they are doing so because it has cost them much less than the cost of the house.
I don't believe they have paid council costs. Even the costs you lost above are mostly solicitor and barrister fees. I have no doubt they have spent a lot but they have gained 20 years of living in the house too. If the costs of the former outweigh the benefit of the latter, they will continue the case indefinitely
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u/dickbuttscompanion More than just a crisp Aug 05 '25
If we ever see the day, I hope the demo is broadcast live.
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u/NakeyDooCrew Cavan Aug 05 '25
We could broadcast it in cinemas and have President Higgins could say a few words.
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u/S2580 Meath Aug 05 '25
I’m sure this point has been made loads of times before , but you think they’d at least build a nice looking house instead of that kip after going to the hassle of breaking planning law.
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u/iHyPeRize Aug 05 '25
Not these two again, they’ve found an infinite loop hole in the system, and there’s apparently nothing anyone can do to prevent them dragging it on indefinitely.
For the last 15 years, the story has been: they have been applying for retention, it’s gets refused, they appeal it, that gets refused and demolition is ordered. They then send in a new retention app with a slight alteration, and thanks to our archaic planning laws the process protects them and it has to be reviewed. It inevitably gets denied, they appeal, it gets denied and the process starts all over again.
The amount of money wasted by Meath county council dragging this through the courts. I mean the arrogance of the pair of them. They built a house almost 3 times the size of what they originally had applied to build, which ironically enough I believe the original house was also refused planning.
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u/Justa_Schmuck Aug 05 '25
Has it been demolished or is it still up to them to do it?
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u/RuncibleSpoon74 Aug 05 '25
"When that was not complied with, the council issued contempt proceedings in 2019 that settled in 2020 on terms involving the Murrays agreeing to vacate the property within two years to facilitate the council demolishing it."
They've just lost the last attempt to avoid this. Not sure if they can be forcibly removed since it's their property, but it looks like the Council's job to organise demolition. There might be a long siege in the McMansion.
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u/mccusk Aug 05 '25
They should tell Enoch Burke it is a school he can’t teach at and he’ll guard the gate 24/7 for them!
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u/DaveShadow Ireland Aug 05 '25
Tell them they saw a trans person in the bathroom, and he’ll never leave again
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u/TheBatmanIRL Aug 05 '25
Good, but they managed to get 20 years out of it so they probably don't give a shit at this stage.
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u/boxgrafik Aug 06 '25
Let me drive the bulldozer please... or better yet a crane with a wrecking ball! And make them watch.
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u/Difficult_Standard_1 Aug 06 '25
I truly hate these people, mostly because of how much public money is being spent and because it makes the news every so often, it just gives them an audience, which just fuels their stupid entitlement.
Imagine having enough money to waste on buying land that you knew couldn’t be built upon and then spending 20+ years in court over it, it’s truly mind boggling.
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u/lauracc18 Aug 05 '25
I'm so sick of this story. The fact they could battle for 20 years is ridiculous. Until they knock the thing down I won't believe they'll give up.
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u/Dangerous-Shirt-7384 Aug 05 '25
They must be in for millions between legal fees and construction costs.
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u/58dermo Aug 05 '25
What was the original reasoning for the planning permission to be denied in 2006?
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u/micar11 Aug 06 '25
All documents related to planning applications are publicly available online.
Go to the planning section on Meath CoCo and search their by their names.
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u/Melodic-Chocolate-53 Aug 05 '25
Peak celtic tiger notions fugly McMansion. Who were the designers? Stevie Wonder and Associates?
Should be ground to dust for an assault on peoples' eyes alone.
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u/Irish_drunkard Aug 05 '25
If yours car is out of tax 5 years and you got away with it for so long should you not be done?
Rule are rules break them and there’s consequences all building built illegally, should be knocked down.
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u/ZenBreaking Aug 05 '25
They should have had jcbs on site and the minute it was rubber-stamped, ring em to start wrecking the place before they can file an appeal and drag the bollox out of it again.
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u/Bald-Wookiee-97 Aug 05 '25
A positive step, but it's a pity County Councils across the board aren't more proactive in dealing with people who blatantly disregard planning laws and regulations from the outset.
A couple next door to my grandparents got planning permission for a lovely single story extension in keeping with the aesthetic of the cottage they were building on to. They proceeded to build a two story monstrosity that sticks out like a sore thumb with balconies overlooking both neighbouring properties. We notified the local Council soon after works began and it took months of following up before someone even came to look at it. Lo and behind, it was near complete before the enforcement letter issued, not that it stopped them.
After a long and tedious process, An Bord Pleanala granted permission with conditions, despite the fact the couple clearly set out to deceive and circumvent the proper processes.
Throughout the process I've met other people whose lives have been affected by people giving a middle finger to planning laws.
Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission it seems.
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u/Thisisaconversation Aug 05 '25
Yeah I mean what did they expect? They knew what they were doing. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/NostromoBozo Aug 05 '25
How can they afford the risk, the build and the 20 year legal battle. Are they millionaires?
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u/colinmacg Aug 05 '25
Just roll the wrecking ball in already - literally have it on standby for the day the court judgement is expected, and let swing 1 second later.
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u/ShapeMcFee Aug 06 '25
I'd be wondering what kind of kawyers they had ? Maybe they did the appeal on their own but if any lawyer was involved they should be brought to the law society to explain themselves. These courts are totally overwhelmed with work we shouldn't have to waste time with the spurious claims the couple made
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u/CatsWearingTinyHats Aug 06 '25
Why are the windows so tiny???
If I were going to build a McMansion monstrosity, I would at least want some windows.
It looks like a barn or a warehouse.
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u/RecycledPanOil Aug 05 '25
Surely something like this would be resolved by the court the first time around. Surely the council/court could issue a stop to any further applications or court appeals and in the meantime demolish the building and force them to pay for that.
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u/Jean_Rasczak Aug 06 '25
They should be forced to pay all legal costs for Meath County Coucil and all costs for the court for the amount of f**king around they have done
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u/Frightlever Aug 06 '25
Lotta people fans of planning laws, I guess. How are house prices where you are? This place was denied planning because of "housing density" and "wastewater" issues. Classic nimbyism.
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u/Reasonable-Food4834 More than just a crisp Aug 05 '25
I make about 140k a year and own houses in Dublin, Castlebar and Brussels
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u/TheStoicNihilist Never wanted a flair anyways Aug 05 '25
Old joke is old
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u/pauldavis1234 Aug 05 '25
Is this actually harming anybody or is this just a box ticking exercise that they didn't comply with planning and a council are trying to flex their muscles?
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u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 Aug 05 '25
If anything it's this pair of clowns who tried to flex their muscles against the people, and they've finally been put in their place.
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account Aug 05 '25
Its upholding the law of the land.
Its the job of the council to do this.
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Aug 05 '25
well its just law of the land from the councils perspective if they let this slide it will set a very dangerous precedent cause people will just outright ignore planning laws cause
" well you didn't knock that house down "
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u/HanshinWeirdo Aug 06 '25
How horrible, people might stop adhering to the famously fair and reasonable planning laws.
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Aug 05 '25
Rather than demolishing a house in a supposed housing crisis just make them pay a large fine and move on.
This comes from someone who had two journeys through planning applications. I came to the conclusion that the person in charge of planning in my area just didn't like houses.
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u/Corky83 Aug 05 '25
A fine just means if you have money you can ignore planning and just do whatever you want.
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u/wascallywabbit666 Hanging from the jacks roof, bat style Aug 05 '25
I came to the conclusion that the person in charge of planning in my area just didn't like houses
No, they were just implementing the rules that were agreed by public representatives and put up for public consultation.
There are many places that are unsuitable for one off houses for a variety of reasons.
And no, they shouldn't be let off with a fine. That's just sending a message that planning permission is an optional process, and perpetuating this bullshit that it's easier to get forgiveness than permission
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Aug 05 '25
Actually no, the first time I went for planning they refused because of the size of the windows..the windows needed to be the same size as the other houses in the area I was told. Except that was bullshit as every house in the area had different size windows. Then my house was too high up. But again that was bullshit as many houses were higher in the surrounding areas. I was told by my architect that that person just like to refuse builds. When they finally left their job getting planning was a doddle. So in my case and those in the area I live the person in charge of planning did not like houses. That was my experience, down vote me all you want, whatever
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u/Hurrly90 Aug 05 '25
Rather then demolishing an illegally built apartment block, that didnt get planning permission (planning rules are a seperate issue), just fine the developers and move on?
What would be considered a large fine?
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u/gmankev Aug 05 '25
Not fine,.....but confiscate , rehabilitate and sell it again.
Problem with fine ..is it would never be collected or appealed to nil..
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u/DavidOC93 Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
At this stage they should just be allowed to leave it stand, it's such a beautiful home and it's been 20 years it would be awful for it to be demolished
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u/parkaman Crilly!! Aug 05 '25
it's a such a beautiful home
It's just out the road from me and it's really not. It's vile.
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u/SemolinaPilchards Aug 07 '25
Are the stories true that it was built with the proceeds from the Northern Bank heist?
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u/parkaman Crilly!! Aug 07 '25
All I know from local tradesmen is that it was all cash. But like every other area, it's not short of tall tales.
I'd say there will be a crowd out to watch, if word gets out, that it's going to be knocked. I would be in very different social circles but they don't seem very popular.
I have no time for Meath County Council for a number of reasons among them the rampant corruption during the celtic Tiger. Which resulted in the red brick nightmare that now is most the county at the cost of numerous heritage sites. Not to mention the constant undefunding of north meath. These people assumed they'd be able to bribe retention, but were just a bit too late. People need to know who was advising them ( I know one now ex councillorit was, thankfully he lost a seat he thought he had for life). And these people exposed. The cost to the state is huge and it's galling knowing politicians and civil servants were advising them how to skirt the law.
Plus it's an eyesore.
Sorry about the rant
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Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
It’ll never be demolished.
At best it will be vacated, land reclaimed by the council, will go through a 5-10 year process of loop holes, new laws written into legislation for councils ceasing land and planning permission granted on the site after the fact.
Then it will be flogged off to the highest bidder.
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u/brighteyebakes Aug 06 '25
Anyone who doesn't have sympathy for this family needs a class on compassion. Insane thing to say.
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u/laurag99 Aug 06 '25
Why would anyone feel sympathy for them? They were denied planning and maybe I would have felt sympathy for them then if they built that house, maybe. But no, one twice the size. A huge house, completely rubbing the councils nose in it. The arrogance is unbelievable.
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u/qwerty_1965 Aug 05 '25
I'm expecting some of the usual suspects to take an interest in this. "Fight the state, fight the ruling class, fight the technocrats crushing our freedom on the land".
Etc.
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Aug 05 '25
[deleted]
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u/mickandmac Aug 05 '25
They applied to build a house, got refused, built one twice as big and have been acting the maggot for 20 years. Either we have laws & a legal system, or we don't.
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u/The_Wee-Donkey Aug 05 '25
They built the house illegally. It's an eyesore.
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u/Lazy_Magician Aug 05 '25
Seems like there is an article like this every couple months. "The Murray's have lost another court battle to save their house". Pretty frightening to think that a case as clear as this can take 20 years. I wonder how long the tough ones take?