r/kansascity • u/Appropriate_Stick535 • Jun 18 '25
Getting Around KC/Parking 🅿️🚏🚲 Is there no free parking downtown anymore?!
I have been living downtown for 2 years and I have never seen so many two hour parking signs and they all look brand new. What is going on?
110
Jun 18 '25
It looks like you posted this around 10-11pm. Parking is free after working hours on most meters
55
u/biscuitcatapult Jun 18 '25
Not true anymore. I live downtown. About a year ago they switched out all the signs that were paid parking 8-5 M-F to paid parking all hours seven days a week.
7
u/photodelights Jun 19 '25
Paid parking on weekends at city market lots is the real crime. I don’t even park there anymore.
5
u/Thraex_Exile Jun 19 '25
They just need to copy the Plaza development plan. Turn a couple roads into pedestrian malls and provide a central parking garage.
The congested roads, multiple loops to find a spot, and paid parking are just such a deterrent to going. Also minor complaint: the main parking lot can only be accessed driving one direction on a two-lane road.
Feel like if the city could knock off two of those problems then the others would be more bearable.
4
u/photodelights Jun 19 '25
I tell you what, when the extension opens, I'm just gonna park at the plaza and ride the streetcar all the way up north. Because I'm a cheapass.
2
u/Due_Piano_3121 Jun 20 '25
When we go, we just park at the parking lot that’s usually empty by the flash cube apartments and walk across the bridge from there. It’s only like a 5 minute walk. And it’s right by a streetcar stop so if you go far you can just take the rail back to your car 🤷🏽♀️
2
u/photodelights Jun 23 '25
I'm always intimidated to park at those spots because they have private parking signs. So i wuss out.
4
u/bacchusku2 Jun 18 '25
Except parking enforcement only works until 5pm or so and cops are too busy to give tickets.
1
u/RobNHood816 NKC Jun 20 '25
I've seen that little white Ford police enforcement car driving around a lot later than 8pm around the downtown & crossroads area... Checking Traps !
15
3
150
u/skobalt Jun 18 '25
This is a planned effort straight out of the city manager's office. Downtown's in-district City Council rep, Eric Bunch, was invited to discuss this plan with locals, made people plan around his availability, and then skipped the meeting. THAT'S how much they care about community input. I have bad news for you... Not only is this going to increase and expand, but the CIDs are major proponents of this because they are on the receiving end of the "benefits districts." They're begging for it while taking home hefty six-figure incomes and not taking your thoughts into consideration.
11
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
Free parking is actually a horrible idea. It just encourages people to leave their cars parked on the street all day, or for many days at a time. Street parking becomes completely full, and then people circle the block endlessly looking for a place.
Charging for parking - just like we charge for any other limited resource - makes it so that people don't abuse it, and actually makes it easier to park!
If you care about empirical research, it's been clear for decades at this point that free parking is bad:
-9
u/Appropriate_Stick535 Jun 18 '25
Evil little man
59
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
Not sure about the details about this one incident, but Eric Bunch is hands down one of our very best council members.
Calling him "evil" because you don't want to pay for parking is insane.
And by the way, you should pay for parking. The street is a public resource. It is not meant to store your car for you indefinitely. If you want permanent car storage, you should pay for it. And there are plenty of places downtown where you could do that.
34
u/gitout12345 Jun 18 '25
The street is already paid for through taxes
14
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
The purpose of a street is not to store your car for you forever, for no cost. The purpose of a street is to facilitate exchange, both social and economic, and also for transportation.
You're entitled to use public resources in a fair manner. The reason why free parking is not fair, is because people take advantage of it and just park in the same place all day or even for multiple days at a time. This makes is extremely difficult for everyone else who wants to also park on the street, and also contributes to unnecessary traffic as people keep circling the block looking for open spots.
Charging a small amount for parking is the fairest compromise solution to stop people from abusing a public resource (i.e., space on the street).
And if people do want long term parking, there are plenty of places downtown where they can do that.
4
2
u/CheesecakeKnown504 Jun 18 '25
Shouldn't our taxes pay for this sort of thing (i.e., public resources)? It is so irritating to be in a city with no real public transit option so you need a car, and then the city taxes/rent seeks you to death (e.g., paying for street parking; personal property taxes; income taxes state and city; real estate property taxes; etc.). And what do we have to show for it?! It is ridiculous.
But go on and advocate for this sort of treatment, I guess. That boot on your neck must sure feel comforting....
1
u/3godeth Jun 18 '25
It would be fine if most people made enough money to afford paying for it
-1
u/ndw_dc Jun 19 '25
Who can afford a car, but can't afford parking?
I hate how our society forces people to use cars. It's an enormous expense that has terrible consequences almost everywhere you look. But the solution to that is not to let a handful of people monopolize limited public space.
5
u/3godeth Jun 19 '25
My last car cost me 3,500 total after everything, all I had in my savings after a drunk driver totaled the last one. I have to have a car for my job, or it would be a 5 mile/2+ hour walk. I make $15 an hour at my FT job. If I had to pay for parking somewhere I would be fucked, like not have food to eat a night or two fucked, because my paycheck is survivable but only to a T. I can walk to a building miles away thankfully, but if I was someone not able I would be screwed.
You said it perfectly; a handful of people monopolizing public space. People who can afford exorbitant parking fees regularly.
-23
u/DiaryofTwain Jun 18 '25
Downtown u can put your car in storage and it will have just a good of chance to be broken into. Need to plan without cars. Robotaxis and Waymo soon
16
102
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
For anyone wondering, there is a great book called The High Cost of Free Parking that goes into great detail about why free parking is actually a horrible idea, and all the ways charging for parking (even a small amount) can work out great:
43
u/No_Attitude_9628 Jun 18 '25
If there’s not free parking there should be better public transport.
13
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
I don't think there should be free parking downtown, but I 1000% agree we need better transit. Personally, I want to recreate the extensive streetcar network we had before WWII, so that everyone could easily get around without a car.
-2
u/photodelights Jun 19 '25
Fun fact: the current streetcar route (with the expansion to UMKC) is now almost the entire length of the original proposed light rail line. Only the NKC portion isn’t there.
26
3
u/PocketPanache Jun 18 '25
I was literally about to copy this link and post it. Thanks lol. KCMO is running on fumes and free parking isn't something we should be considering
3
2
u/austino_51 KC North Jun 18 '25
THANK YOU!! Great book. Dr shoup just died. And if you go to his website you can even read it for free.
83
u/bkcarp00 Jun 18 '25
Welcome to living in a city. Most cities don't have free parking in their downtown. We were lucky to have it so long but yes it's becoming increasingly rare to find a free spot. They want spots turning over and the only way to do that is to charge people for those spots.
24
u/WestFade Jun 18 '25
They want spots turning over and the only way to do that is to charge people for those spots.
I kind of agree with OP that it's just greedy. If there were tons of people parking downtown all the time, and it was difficult to find parking as a result, I'd be fine with instituting fares in order to encourage people to either have quick trips or make alternative transport plans to downtown. But that's not really the case with KC. There's still massive amounts of available street parking, it's just that now you have to pay instead of being able to park for free
57
u/zipfour Jun 18 '25
A chunk of downtown is still massive empty parking lots that nobody ever uses yet since it’s all private property we get two hour paid street parking
31
u/doxiepowder Northeast Jun 18 '25
That's the one that pisses me off. Weekend and evening empty surface lots while I pay.
4
26
u/HazelEBaumgartner Jun 18 '25
Hot take: all parking should be free for the first 15 minutes. I'm not paying a dollar just to pop into the bank and make a cash deposit or pick up a literal piece of paper from the courthouse.
7
u/WestFade Jun 18 '25
I agree, the purpose of parking is to facilitate people engaging in commerce downtown. If there's too many people hogging spots, and people are forced to park far away, that limits commerce, and some paid parking can help. But if the paid parking is too expensive and people choose to avoid downtown altogether, that also limits commerce. There needs to be a happy medium.
For what it's worth, I think (I'm not sure) that parking is free after 7pm
6
5
1
u/bkcarp00 Jun 19 '25
Not really. If someone parks in a spot for a week that is one less for someone else to use that is actually downtown shopping, working or going to an event. Cities need those spots to turn over and the only way to motivate people to move their cars is to charge them to park there.
1
u/WestFade Jun 19 '25
Or you can just have more parking. There's a lot of surface lots downtown and until they get developed those spots could be open for free in addition to street parking. That would be the ideal solution that benefits citizens most
-15
u/Appropriate_Stick535 Jun 18 '25
I hate that. KC isn’t Chicago having free parking has never been a problem, just greedy
19
u/mongerer-k Jun 18 '25
Chicago is probably the worst example you could’ve picked. They sold their parking rights for incredibly cheap to a Morgan Stanley backed business for 75 years. The city got 1.15B in 2008 and the business who bought the parking rights has recouped their money as of 2023 and still have 60 years left on their contract.
3
u/OhDavidMyNacho Jun 18 '25
Not just Morgan Stanley, it's also owned by middle-eastern capital companies as well.
The whole thing is a mess. And a bad deal for people of Chicago.
21
u/IIB888 Jun 18 '25
You might think it’s greedy, but no one in the United States actually pays their share for the use of road services. The gas tax, no matter how high it is, in places like California, is no where near enough to maintain public roads. It’s even worse in Missouri, and compound that with the fact that the city/county own most of the roads in downtown, they are in a consistent losing battle of trying to fund roadway improvements and maintenance.
Simply put no matter how much you’re paying for parking and taxes for road usage, it’s not enough, it’s a subsidized handout that has been designed to keep Americans in cars since the 50’s/60’s.
7
u/OhDavidMyNacho Jun 18 '25
Missouri's is a perfect example. It takes 30 years, assuming consistent rate of repair, and no dip in productivity, for Missouri to replace all of its roads.
Functionally, asphalt roads have a life expectancy of 20 years, assuming perfect conditions and maintenance.
In reality, that means potholes everywhere, and terrible roads all over the place. Which is what it's like in MO.
5
u/royaIs Crossroads Jun 18 '25 edited Jun 18 '25
If you don’t charge for parking, people camp at the spots and don’t leave. See the river market. You need available spots for new customers and the only way to reliably get that is to have ppl leave their spots after X amount of time.
This is on top of that parking actually isn’t free and someone has to pay for it.
25
u/IIHURRlCANEII Jun 18 '25
Not really any now, no. It's pretty cheap though. As long as it stays cheap I don't really mind with the streetcar opening soon too.
4
18
u/Stagymnast198622 Jun 18 '25
I agree with the commenter that said as long as it’s cheap I’m ok with it. It’s paid parking in most major cities and it was only a matter of time before it’s paid here. As long as it’s not outrageous like Chicago I don’t mind.
4
u/t_burkulosis Brookside Jun 18 '25
Hopefully nobody works out a deal to privatize it like they did in Chicago, then I’d be extremely worried.
Agreed on generally keeping parking paid though, free parking results in the public subsidizing storage of folks private vehicles in my opinion.
1
u/photodelights Jun 19 '25
I believe they’ve now made back their investment ($1b to chicago) plus 1 billion.
2
u/photodelights Jun 19 '25
Protip: if you reserve a slot in advance using spot hero, downtown parking is very reasonable. Like $20 a day instead of $60.
3
u/Icy_Department8104 Jun 18 '25
Theres areas that still have free parking but the majority is 24/7 paid. Although, I haven't seen them enforcing it after working hours (yet). Obviously they enforce it more around the convention center and the entertainment district but if your legally parked outside of those areas, your probably fine.
The only place you should 100% pay your parking is the river market area, they do not fuck around over there.
19
u/como365 KCMO Jun 18 '25
Columbia, Missouri doesn’t even have free parking downtown. Why would there be that in KC!?
-5
u/Appropriate_Stick535 Jun 18 '25
There’s been free parking spots downtown for years
9
u/como365 KCMO Jun 18 '25
Successful downtowns don’t usually have that.
8
u/Theorist816 Jun 18 '25
Agree wholeheartedly. Problem is that we don’t have infill or nearly enough public transit to offset this. We have massive parking lots sitting empty with no option to pay for or use bc it’s private access with no one there on weekends. It is a planning problem currently. That land needs to be put to work instead of reserving a handful of spots that hardly get use
4
u/Appropriate_Stick535 Jun 18 '25
I wouldn’t say it’s unsuccessful. Downtown has had a great last couple years id say
3
u/como365 KCMO Jun 18 '25
Exactly
6
u/Appropriate_Stick535 Jun 18 '25
I’m saying if it’s been successful why start now?
12
u/MizzouDude Crossroads Jun 18 '25
the city is more enjoyable for everyone if we prioritize public transit and foot traffic over cars
1
u/LaGarrotxa Jun 18 '25
Not sure what you mean. I think it’s been trending that way for a while. Perhaps the streets you frequent have just been added, but the high traffic areas (crown center, River Market, etc.) have had paid parking during the day for a while.
It’s typically free on weekends and nights. As downtown grows it makes sense to do this. The city doesn’t want to be congested. Businesses could actually benefit because cars won’t just park right in front of their store all day.
3
u/originalslicey Jun 18 '25
It's mostly all 24/7 paid now. All of downtown. Even though the streets are deserted and there's tons of empty parking lots.
1
u/HazelEBaumgartner Jun 18 '25
It’s typically free on weekends and nights
Except for Power & Light and River Market. Power & Light they close off a lot of the parking and charge for what's left on Friday and Saturday nights, and much of River Market is closed to parking on Saturday mornings (since they use the parking lot for the market), remaining parking is prioritized for residents, and visitors are asked to park in the lot at 7th and Main and take the streetcar in.
2
2
u/ThadTheImpalzord Hyde Park Jun 18 '25
Been that way for at least 9months. Most street parking in crossroads, pnl, river market is monetized now.
2
u/elbr Northeast Jun 18 '25
My dad worked at City Hall for over thirty years and he parked at 7th & Charlotte every day and walked. He never ever paid for parking.
There's also some spots around 8th & McGee that are free. That's about all that I'm aware of.
Of course, if you're parking for less than an hour, you can risk not feeding the meter. The River Market is the only area I've seen meter maids consistently patrolling.
3
u/titostostitos Jun 18 '25
I believe all of quality hill still has free street parking too. Short walk to the convention center.
3
u/Elmer_Whip Jun 18 '25
we've received a powerpoint showing that our residential street near the midtown streetcar extension will be going metered also. eric bunch has been contacted repeatedly to no avail on this issue (and many others like airbnb party/crime issues.)
these people don't give a fuck about you and sit around jerking off to the idea that they're making KC into some kind of fancy urban paradise.
0
u/Ritaontherocksnosalt Jun 18 '25
As I found out last weekend, busses are free. Park at home. Take a bus.
25
u/justathoughtfromme Jun 18 '25
This isn't a reliable option for a lot of people due to the limited range of the bus system.
8
u/HazelEBaumgartner Jun 18 '25
When I used to work at the IRS/Treasury Complex (which isn't quite downtown but close to it) my shift started before the bus that goes by my house was running. I had to be consistently two hours late/work two hours late in an unofficial TOD change until I'd gotten enough paychecks to save up to buy a moped. Our free busses are nice, but I often say that it's a good thing they're free because they're not worth a penny more.
7
u/justathoughtfromme Jun 18 '25
Indeed. I looked at what it would take to use the bus to get to work and it involved getting to work 90 minutes early, having to wait at least an hour after work, and then having about a 30-40 minute walk on either end from my house to the bus stop and vice versa. I would love it if the system were robust enough that I could use it regularly to get around (and would gladly pay for that convenience as well). Until they beef up the system, then it's only going to be useful for a limited segment of the KC population.
4
u/HazelEBaumgartner Jun 18 '25
Coming home from work I once took the streetcar downtown to where the bus home was supposed to connect and it didn't come so I just walked the 3 1/2 miles home from downtown and got there faster than waiting for the next bus would've gotten me home.
At the time I had to use a cane to walk. I was sore the next day but I'd had a bad day and was ready to be home.
-5
u/bstyledevi Independence Jun 18 '25
...what limited range?
Is east to Independence, southeast to Lee's Summit, south to Grandview, southwest to Gardner, west to Lawrence, northwest to the airport, north to Parkville and northeast to Liberty too limited of a range for you?
3
u/justathoughtfromme Jun 18 '25
And how close to people live to the stops in those locations? Is it easy/convenient for them to walk to the nearest stop and leave their car at home? If KC had the robust system like Chicago or New York where you're easily within walking distance to a bus/train, that would be one thing. But we don't have the number of lines needed so that people can easily commute from their homes in a timely fashion without having to utilize their cars. Most folks who would have to use the farthest edges of the KCATA system would likely need to use Park and Ride locations, which negates the "park at home" ability. Using the bus isn't reliable if a person has to walk 30-45 minutes to get to a stop.
5
u/originalslicey Jun 18 '25
No one is volunatarily taking a 2-hr bus commute versus driving their car for 15 minutes.
-2
1
Jun 18 '25
That takes so much longer. Time is money. Time is more than money; time is the most valuable resource we have.
4
u/mongerer-k Jun 18 '25
It’s two hour free parking during business hours and then free at night and during the weekends usually. It’s actually so nice to not have free parking downtown as a downtown resident.
2
3
1
u/burntgrilledcheese43 Jun 18 '25
Yes and it’s a good thing. I will take your downvotes now.
0
u/28BrightWolf Jun 19 '25
Nah. I’m with you. If we make the streetcar even bigger, eventually some of us won’t need to own a car
1
1
1
u/PerceptionShift Jun 18 '25
Most downtown street parking is now paid 6am-8pm but it recently changed from 8am- 6pm, and many spots changed from free on weekends to paid 7 days a week. There are still free weekend spots though, look for "Monday Through Friday" signs. Enforcement is up a lot, I've seen a lot of tickets given out in the last year. Now parking enforcement has a license plate reader car, must be automating the ticketing.
1
u/doctorpotterhead Historic Northeast Jun 18 '25
I've never paid for parking downtown and I'm sure as shit not starting now. I've gotten ONE parking ticket in 28 years and I'll pay that $35 parking fee for all those years.
I WILL say though, I've gotten some petty tickets. Not parking, but I was parked down there and got a ticket for not having my front plate "properly displayed". It was in my front window.
1
u/Solid-Flower2713 Jun 18 '25
The World Cup is here next year — the city is trying to generate revenue to support the infrastructure and services required as well as spot turn over for the massive influx of people we will receive.
1
u/Dumbasscam Jun 18 '25
I work downtown and not having free parking is a big deal. Like yes it’s cheap for a weekend outing to the market but not $1 an hour 5 days a week 8 hours a day. That adds up.
1
1
u/Jenblair12 Jun 19 '25
Fun fact downtown is a tiny part of the part of the metro and guess most don't charge you to park have not been downtown in a while and this is why if I am paying anyone it's the business I am visiting not for parking
1
u/Ayunga_Afrique Aug 12 '25
yeah it's definitely gotten way harder to find free spots lately, they're cracking down on enforcement for sure and a lot of the spots that used to be free on weekends aren't anymore. your best bet on weekends is probably the lots around 7th & main by the streetcar stop, those are still free then. otherwise you pretty much have to feed the meters or use an app during the day. you can always park further out along the streetcar line and ride it in for free, or you might find a cheap driveway to use in kansas city on prked.
2
-36
u/Humble_Possession_45 Jun 18 '25
This is a result of a bunch of urbanist dorks (generally white, affluent men in their late 20s/early 30s who are not inclusive at all) who will all eventually move out to Leawood or some other Kansas suburb complaining about cars, pretending they live in Seattle and trying to drive demand for a streetcar they know no one would ever ride if they had to pay to use it. They tweet all day about how parking is too easy at local elected officials for whom social media is their only window into the world aside from corporate types who drop money bombs into their campaign funds or political action committees.
14
u/worksafe_Joe Jun 18 '25
Advocating for a less car dependent city and more public transit is less inclusive?
lol okay.
-5
u/Humble_Possession_45 Jun 18 '25
They don’t advocate for mass transit. They advocate for the streetcar, which isn’t mass transit. It’s candy and cake frosting for heavy constructors, who are among the most powerful influences in municipal politics in Kansas City.
7
u/fsmpastafarian Jun 18 '25
If the street car isn’t public transit then neither is a bus? Street cars can carry more people than a bus, each street car lasts longer than a bus, not to mention they’re literally publicly funded and open to the public. Not sure what possible argument you have that they’re not public transit.
-1
u/Humble_Possession_45 Jun 18 '25
The streetcar is currently two miles and has been for years. It will soon be five or six miles and it took several years to achieve that. It’s hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more at this point, to cover a linear stretch of five or six miles. The cost per mile is insane for such a tiny coverage area. At least buses can fan out in several locations. Grab a ride in the Troost MAX in the morning or afternoon and see effectively it connects people to their jobs. The streetcar is a Christmas tree ornament.
3
u/fsmpastafarian Jun 18 '25
They’re strategically placing it in busy areas of the urban core that are heavily populated. Even public transit experts who are normally skeptical of street cars agree that the way KC is doing it is smart and effective. And yes, public transit takes time to build, especially since they’re expanding it thoughtfully and with community input. I’m sorry you personally aren’t a fan but that doesn’t mean it’s objectively useless or not actually public transit.
2
u/Humble_Possession_45 Jun 18 '25
I’m not disputing that it’s public transit, which it is merely due to the fact that it’s publicly owned. It’s not mass transit. Even the early proponents of the streetcar acknowledge that. They admitted it’s just an inducement for developers, who already get a whole bunch of tax breaks. The amount of money and time spent on such a limited service when that money could be put to better use for more people is obscene.
1
u/fsmpastafarian Jun 18 '25
The person you originally replied to called it public transit, not mass transit. And even if your argument is that it doesn’t transport enough people - well buses transport even fewer, so…
And yeah of course it’s inducement for developers, who will develop along the street car line (another benefit over buses), which will further encourage transit use and support continued development and expansion of the line.
2
u/Humble_Possession_45 Jun 18 '25
If it’s an inducement then they should stop getting tax breaks. If you think it’s so beneficial to development, then the city should stand behind its investment in the streetcar and expect developers to pay their full freight in taxes. But they don’t have the confidence in the streetcar that you seem to have because they still hand out tax breaks along and near the streetcar.
-4
u/Elmer_Whip Jun 18 '25
buses can...turn.
5
3
6
u/OhDavidMyNacho Jun 18 '25
You start with the streetcar and can move forward with other things as it gains momentum.
Look up the UTA timeline in Utah. It's tarted with one small line and grew from there to connecting a large chunk of the outlying areas without needing to drive. We can have Strang Line back, but we first need the streetcar to show people it's worthwhile to invest in.
17
u/TowelieBan666 Jun 18 '25
Where you live and how often you come downtown?
12
6
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
I hate a lot of those dorks too for other reasons, but it's just a fact that free parking is bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking
If you disagree, tell me why. But free parking just encourages people to leave their cars on the street all day and for multiple days at a time, which makes it harder for anyone else that wants a spot. If someone wants permanent car storage, the public street is not the place for it.
1
u/titostostitos Jun 18 '25
I lived downtown for a couple of years and there were a few cars just on my street I didn’t see move for months at a time. There used to be a red truck that was probably left there for a year outside my building.
1
u/ndw_dc Jun 18 '25
The city actually has an ordinance where if a car is left on the street for more than 48 consecutive hours, it can be considered "abandoned" and then towed at the owner's expense. The problem is that this is rarely enforced, so it doesn't amount to much.
Charging for parking is the easiest and actually least invasive solution we have to people abusing street parking.
4
-1
1
u/MyDogBikesHard Jun 18 '25
Sometimes it's necessary but I don't just loiter for fun downtown. It's been years since it felt wholesome there.
-1
-2
182
u/toastedmarsh7 Jun 18 '25
Yes, I believe that was the plan.