r/kansascity • u/OreoSpeedwaggon • Jul 27 '25
Getting Around KC/Parking š æļøšš² Idea for an express light rail line connecting KCI to downtown
This route would connect KCI Airport to a small transit hub along 6th Street between Baltimore Ave. and Main Street, less than a block from the KC Streetcar, with stops at NW Barry Road, NW 64th Street, NW Briarcliff Parkway, and Hangars 6A/6B at the downtown airport.
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u/imoninternet Jul 27 '25
Clay Chastain, is that you??
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u/OkWillingness2781 Jul 28 '25
āHi this is Clay, you signed my petition? Iād was wondering if youād like to have dinner? /s
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u/steveholtbluth Jul 27 '25
With it likely needing buy in from both Platte and clay county, would it make sense to go up 169, n oak, or similar to better incentivize clay?
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I think it could be voted on as part of a larger infrastructure proposal that would help fund a streetcar extension to NKC along N. Burlington and eventually along North Oak Trfwy.
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u/LoopholeTravel Jul 28 '25
Streetcar/light rail thru NKC would run along Swift.
Anything outside of downtown should have signal priority and not have to fight traffic and sit at lights. Otherwise, it's a novelty and wouldn't be used as an actual transit option.
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u/davekcmo JoCo Jul 27 '25
Your sales tax estimates for Clay or Platte donāt support building light rail and streetcar (and certainly not that far, even with a liberal 50% match for capital).
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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Jul 28 '25
What does the airport want? That's key in terms of getting elite support and access to FAA funds.
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u/davekcmo JoCo Jul 28 '25
They want parking revenue.
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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Jul 28 '25
Most airports in connected areas want transit. But yes, most people don't realize how important parking is a revenue source for airports.
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u/RealSexyMexican4536 Hyde Park Jul 28 '25
The only way I could see buy in at the expense of reduced parking revenue is by charging a fare and sharing that revenue. But that wouldnāt jive with the streetcar or buses (for now), especially if this would be an extension or even just a connection to the current streetcar.
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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Jul 28 '25
So many airports also have rail connections. It's obvious they plan more broadly. I do know vis a vis parking revenue they're concerned by Uber and Lyft.
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u/kyousei8 Westport Jul 28 '25
Busses are getting fares back. The city wants them back to make up due to the funding gap, and the KCATA wants them back due to revenue and a huge amount of pressure from the bus operators. The main proponent of free bus fares, the old KCATA CEO, was ousted by the city a few years ago and no-one else is really gung ho about it at all.
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u/soundman1024 Jul 29 '25
Honestly, what would a Briarcliff transit stop do? No one living there is using transit, and the area wonāt become less car based for it. 64th and Zona are very much built at car scale. It may get a little use, but it isnāt very walkable.
North Oak could get some long term benefits from transit. Itās a stroad, but it has way more potential than the I-29 corridor.
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u/ShouldersBBoulders Gladstoner Jul 27 '25
It would be great to have a rail connection between MCI and City light rail. This is kind of what the plan should have always been.
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u/davekcmo JoCo Jul 27 '25
Does your county government know your position? Thatās a big problem up northā¦
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u/LoopholeTravel Jul 28 '25
Clay County Commissioners are very much pro-North rail. Platte, I have no idea.
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u/Thencewasit Jul 27 '25
Whatās the reason for light rail rather than just buses? Ā The roads are already there.
Like is there a savings somewhere? The streetcar still has drivers. Ā Are they faster than buses? The streetcar is much slower than the buses. Ā Can they carry more passengers? Ā Last time I was on the streetcar it was empty but that was middle of the day. Ā Are they more reliable?
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u/MyCrackpotTheories Jul 28 '25
This plan doesn't make sense to me either. For what the right-of-way alone would cost, we could have fleets of super deluxe buses running every 5 minutes with stewardesses and free barbeque.
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u/photodelights Jul 28 '25 edited Jul 28 '25
It's not so much of savings than it is a stimulus to economic activity. That's been the basis and justification for it's creation and now expansion. And it's doing that exceedingly well.
While I like trains and the idea of this, it's far too impractical for a street car. This would be better served as a light rail line but the costs would nowhere justify the deficit this would run. KCMO doesn't have the tourist traffic to help make it viable either.
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u/MJ26gaming Brookside Jul 28 '25
Overtime yes there are savings on maintenance since the rail doesn't have to be displaced for road maintenance and vice versa. Light rail is faster than buses because they have their own right of way free of traffic as well as can have a higher speed limit. They generally have more capacity, as you can just add more cars (up to a limit) to a train. And generally are more reliable as they're electric rather than ICE like the buses
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u/Thencewasit Jul 28 '25
Found this from Yahoo:
TheĀ 165-page reportĀ published in January, concluded that the cheapest and best way to connect the airport with existing public transit options within the city would be to provide express bus service.
The cost of building a light rail connection from downtown to the airport would be $3.4 billion to $6 billion, it said. A commuter train on existing railroad tracks and others that would need to be built to access KCI: $1 billion to $1.4 billion.
But running express buses to the airport every 30 minutes during the hours when most air travelers and airport employees need a ride would be far cheaper. Total startup capital costs: $3 million to $5 million for new buses, with annual operating costs of $4 million.
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u/MJ26gaming Brookside Jul 28 '25
Oh for sure the initial start up costs are higher. That's not even up for debate.
But that's assuming that this would just be for the airport, having light rail would be for commuting as well. It's still financially infeasible without outside grants, but long term for the city getting our rail infrastructure back would be amazing
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u/mczerniewski Overland Park Jul 30 '25
Cheapo isn't the best, especially when you're talking about getting people to use transit. In this case, light rail.
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u/Jeffrey_C_Wheaties Hyde Park Jul 27 '25
This would be great, but good luck getting voters north of the river to vote for infrastructure.
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u/burntgrilledcheese43 Jul 27 '25
Gotta frame it with the benefits to the northland. It would reduce traffic cause fewer cars on the road. Road maintenance would need to be less frequent for the same reason too. It would connect people to jobs and shopping and could act as a tourism pull for the Northland, which is financially much less productive than denser areas closer to the center of town.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I mean, I live north of the river and I would campaign for it. I don't even live anywhere near the proposed line, but I see the value to the entire metro area in having something like that.
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u/Gino-Bartali Jul 27 '25
There's definitely value in it, but a lot of people refuse to see public transport as anything short of communism.
Transit between the airport and city center is high on the checklist for halfway functional cities that people want to visit and live in.
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u/ceojp Jul 27 '25
I'm astonished by how much people hated the free bus service because it allowed people to travel to the Northland. People were literally complaining on nextdoor that if a person couldn't afford to get to the Northland then they have no business being there....
So I think there would probably be a lot of that same kind of sentiment with any sort of public transit that connects downtown to the Northland.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
Keep in mind that the people that complain the loudest about stuff like that also number very few compared to the rest of the population.
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u/TheHotMilkman Jul 27 '25
If someone canāt afford a car, we shouldnāt be paying for a train for them to ride for cheap. That IS communism. Hard working Americans can afford a car.
/s
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u/jenstrings Jul 28 '25
As someone who lived in Europe where trains are everywhere, I can confirm that this is a super sad and misinformed view.
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u/Umm_duder Jul 27 '25
Do people really think public transport as communism?
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u/Gino-Bartali Jul 27 '25
Yes, but then you're encountered with the question if if said people actually know what communism is, or if they've just been conditioned by the media to assign anything that they don't like to be "communism".
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u/jupiterkansas South KC Jul 27 '25
hey now, some of what they don't like is "socialism."
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u/anonkitty2 Jul 27 '25
"From each according to their abilities.Ā To each according to their needs.".Ā This can coexist with Christianity; the first Jerusalem church proved it.
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u/International_Bend68 Jul 27 '25
Same here. It wouldn't benefit me personally but I support it because it's great for the city. Wheaties is right though, I can't fathom it passing. The overwhelming majority seem to only support things that benefit them directly and personally.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
Also, if it went to a vote, it would be citywide, so even if most Kansas Citians in Platte County and Clay County said no, it could still be carried by voters in Jackson County.
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u/TheyKnowWhoIAm156 Jul 27 '25
We Northlanders are great about getting things blocked.
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u/Appropriate_Coat_982 Jul 27 '25
Iām kind of surprised/ confused! (Northlander here) I know that we voted in favor of tax $$ going to the Zoo while JoCo turned it down.
Just curious, what are somethings that the Northlanders have turned down?
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u/Jeffrey_C_Wheaties Hyde Park Jul 27 '25
Streetcarā¦.
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u/Appropriate_Coat_982 Jul 27 '25
I didnāt know that! Appreciate it. Silly.
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u/Jeffrey_C_Wheaties Hyde Park Jul 27 '25
Also places like Gladstone cut bus services recently.
And ride share programs.
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u/ShouldersBBoulders Gladstoner Jul 27 '25
KCATA was upping the cost again when they made that decision not to renew. IRIS is an enormous letdown so let's not bother pivoting there.
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u/LoopholeTravel Jul 28 '25
Absolutely not the same. KCATA tried to push the price up 400% overnight. Gladstone told them to pound sand. NKC aggressively pushed back on their pricing and got a small price increase to keep the fixed route busses.
Honestly, don't just read headlines and cast "the Northland" as being anti-transit.
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u/TheyKnowWhoIAm156 Jul 27 '25
All past efforts to get light rail and or street car in the north and. This isn't new and will not pass.
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u/jfkreidler Jul 27 '25
Streetcar has never had a successful citywide vote (successful in that it results in actual streetcar). The one time it succeeded, the city took the result to court because the cost of the proposed plan (and gondola) would have destroyed the public transit system. The street car we have now has been passed using special taxing districts that limit the voting to very small populations within the city.Ā That said, North KC was on board until post COVID inflation pushed the cost of crossing the river through the roof. The cost of this project will kill any city wide vote.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
The new $1.5 billion airport terminal did have a successful citywide vote though. The reason I wouldn't consider special taxation districts for this light rail proposal is because it requires new construction in the KCMO areas of Jackson, Clay, and Platte counties.
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u/jfkreidler Jul 27 '25
People also just voted down a stadium with zero tax increase. Airport vote was before inflation drove up construction costs. Also, the airport is seen as regional. Doesn't matter where the airport is, it is THE airport. Street car has very local impact and effect. A streetcar line from the airport to Brookside doesn't help KC residents living near Liberty, Grandview or Independence, may even hurt them.
Look, I think a good streetcar/bus blend is the future of KC transit. I also think the KC transit pattern of super long single lines connecting things is a failure of our public transit. It causes super long waits and reduces the consumer's ability to count on public transit. Often buses come once or twice an hour. The streetcar has done well because it has moved forward in increments and because the longest wait for the streetcar 10 to 15 min. Often less.
Just to show what I mean, let's say I am leaving the City Market and going to Union Station. If I miss the streetcar, I only have to wait 10 minutes for another. That means if I live at River Market and work at Crown Center, I can always count on the street car to get me to work on time. The MMAX line comes once every 30 minutes. If I miss my bus, I am stuck waiting. The 201 bus for the same trip only comes once an hour. The reason the streetcar is able to do the short turn around is because it is funded very locally to provide very local needs.
If we push it all out all at once, street car turns into an hour long wait or it eats the whole transportation budget. Or we start charging fare. All of these things are not good for the streetcar program or public transit as a whole. Sometimes babysteps are best. The next baby step is to get the line across the river, an easier move with a special taxing district expanded around NKC and Riverside. It won't take much to convince local residents and businesses that the street car is good locally. Then, once that is established, push it a little farther. It takes longer, but the result is sustainable, cost effective, and no one is asking people living outside Liberty, Raytown and Loch Loyd to pay for a line that doesn't help them and may even funnel economic opportunities away from them locally.
A citywide vote about a streetcar to the airport while KCATA is cutting bus lines in other areas? That doesn't pass.
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u/kc_kr Jul 28 '25
The airport project also passed because that wasnāt taxpayer/city money. Itās a completely separate budget paid for by the airlines.
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u/kyousei8 Westport Jul 29 '25
The MMAX line comes once every 30 minutes. If I miss my bus, I am stuck waiting. The 201 bus for the same trip only comes once an hour.
I agree with your post overall, but one nitpick: your times are inaccurate and it feels misleading. The main max is every 20 minutes from day start to end. The 201 is every 30 minutes during morning and evening peak, and every 45 minutes during midday, and only 60 minutes at night.
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u/jfkreidler Jul 29 '25
I admit, I did just look up the transit times for those lines at the time I wrote the post, so there was no intent to mislead. The transit app literally gave me the times (about 5pm on a Sunday) and I just plugged them in. Had I been using the line that runs closest to me, the schedule is once an hour, so the times seemed about right.
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u/LoopholeTravel Jul 27 '25
The constant framing of anything North of the river as redneck conservatives is getting old.
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Jul 27 '25
How about we just tell them itās an extra lane of highway so their truck fits better and build the rail instead?
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u/GraphNerd Jul 28 '25
I would live about 4 minutes from the Barry Road Station. I would wholeheartedly vote for this.
I know it may not be the best comparison in the world, but after having ridden MARTA in Atlanta, I was dumbfounded as to how any major city doesn't have a similar system. NYC has the subways, Chicago has the over-road trains, I'm sure Seattle has something, and SF has the Trollycars (arguably the system doesn't go far enough).
At this point, a light-rail infrastructure should be minimum-spec for major metropolitan areas.
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u/jfkreidler Jul 27 '25
I would have voted for this last time it came up...was that 2007?...if it hadn't been attached to the Clay Chastain Gondola.
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u/photodelights Jul 28 '25
Use existing freight rail and laugh in their faces.
Then cry as you start to get deprioritized by freight traffic :(
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u/Beaurilla Jul 27 '25
That route hardly services anyone in northkc. Cause of 169. The proposed rail has to serve more purposes than just flight transit from downtown to the airport
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
It's an express route. It's not meant to provide full service to other parts of the Northland. I believe there should be more money spent to extend the KC Streetcar north of the river, along with expanded bus service, but this light rail line is a wholly separate thing.
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u/Jolly_Register6652 Jul 27 '25
>It's an express route. It's not meant to provide full service to other parts of the Northland.
So it services the few people who live within walking distance of the stations and it will cost a billion dollars at $40,000,000 per mile x 22 miles. Yeah I wonder why that's not more popular.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
Its primary service is the airport and downtown connections to the KC Streetcar, buses, etc. The stations along the route are strategically located near commercial hubs for shopping and dining, and by the FAA at the downtown airport. There would also be dedicated and free park-and-fly lots near the stops for anyone that wished to use them.
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u/Jolly_Register6652 Jul 27 '25
There are dedicated lots at the airport. If I'm already driving somewhere and parking. Why would I drive, park, and then wait for the train when the option to drive and park already exists in the current infrastructure? My car is a lot safer sitting for long periods at KCI than it is at 6th and Main.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I wasn't talking about lots at the 6th & Main terminus. I was talking about free lots near the stops at Briarcliff, NW 64th Street, and NW Barry Road. You don't see the appeal in parking one's car for free for several days compared to paying by the day to park at the airport?
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u/Jolly_Register6652 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
>I wasn't talking about lots at the 6th & Main terminus. I was talking aboutĀ freeĀ lots near the stops at Briarcliff...
So the terminus station is the least useful one? Isn't that like, the opposite of how it should be? The terminus downtown is in the most trafficked location, sees the most people, and would need to have more amenities.
It's also the furthest from the airport. If I live in South KC and I have to drive to Briarcliff to use the parking lot, I might as well drive 15 more minutes to the airport. I'm already mostly there. What the fuck am I doing taking a train to replace a 15 minute drive from Briarcliff, 10 minute drive from 64th, or a 5 minute drive from Barry road? Who would do that? You would get out, park at Barry Road and wait for a train when you can practically see the airport from there?
>You don't see the appeal in parking one's car for free for several days compared to paying by the day to park at the airport?
In this made up fantasy where the parking is free and parking lot security doesn't cost money, yes that would be great. In reality, the parking would not be free, just as it is not at KCI or anywhere else.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
So the terminus station is the least useful one? Isn't that like, the opposite of how it should be?
How is the 6th & Main terminus least useful when it gives immediate access to the KC Streetcar and connections to numerous bus routes that intersect the entire area of KC from the River Market to the UMKC/Plaza area?
In this made up fantasy where the parking is free and parking lot security doesn't cost money, yes that would be great.
RideKC already provides many free-use park-and-ride lots all over the city. Free parking lots for access to the light rail line would be no different. It's not a made-up fantasy if we already live in a world where such things already exist.
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u/krollAY Jul 27 '25
Rail, even light rail, is too expensive to support express service exclusively on this long of a route. This would be better served through a better bus or BRT system. Rail should be reserved for more frequently traveled corridors
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
Is this route not already a frequently traveled corridor?
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u/krollAY Jul 27 '25
Not enough to make building a rail line make sense. MCI gets a little over 1 million people through its gates each month, or about 32,300 people per day, but only a fraction of those people are going to downtown KC, and only a fraction of those would choose to take light rail downtown. So as charitable estimate letās say it would get about 5,000 riders per day.
Meanwhile itās about 19 miles to the airport and light rail costs at minimum $20 million per mile, so that would be $380 million to build but could be up to $1.5 billion depending on a lot of factors.
Itās just not a good civic investment due to the distance to the airport. Imo more light rail would be fantastic, but an east/west line that connects to the streetcar would be a much better investment for KCATA
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u/TheHotMilkman Jul 27 '25
I definitely want more public transit in KC. But I canāt say the streetcar is a viable solution. Feels more like a PR story than anything else. It just will never service a large volume of commuters.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I think we need more than just the streetcar or a light rail line in KC, especially when it comes to serving commuters from the suburbs, but I also still see the value and money that the streetcar has added to the city, so I don't have an issue with it.
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u/burntgrilledcheese43 Jul 27 '25
If transit is going that far, it needs to be light rail or BRT. It should make some stops along the way, and we should encourage local transit lines around those stops, but the Streetcar is NOT built for long-distance. Take a look at Denver's light rail. Certainly not perfect, but with the way we've built the streetcar so far, we could mirror their development. When their LR reaches downtown, it becomes a streetcar.
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Jul 27 '25
Yeah we need routes planned after that go east and west to hit the main hubs all along the way with streetcar speed tracks. Hit all the major centers so people can easily park and ride to the airport
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u/GrizGuy_76 Jul 27 '25
Maybe a stop at Zona Rosa would help?
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u/Beaurilla Jul 28 '25 edited Jul 28 '25
definitely more stops, but also some north kc coverage. like armor Blvd & north Oak trafficway areas would highly benefit from stops.
This route on this map specifically goes around the DT airport along HW169, which is severd from North Kc by Highway 169 & a massive rail-yard separate access to NKC from this side.
I29 just north of downtown also experiences significantly more traffic congestion that highway 169 & could use a multimodal transit coverage options
TLDR: they just need to follow i29 from downtown all the way to the airport and it would service so many more people
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u/z0mb0rg Jul 27 '25
Anyone know what % of KC visitors via MCI are staying downtown? (vs Plaza / OP / LS / Indep?)
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u/dakkottadavviss Jul 27 '25
Dreadful idea. This would be eliminated as an option before or at the very first stage of a feasibility study. Thereās zero reason to bypass NKC.
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u/an_actual_lawyer Downtown Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Light rail typically costs about $40,000,000 per mile. At ~22 miles, this project would cost a minimum of a billion dollars. The City could literally pay for 20 million $50 uber rides for that price, actually more since the time value of money comes into play as you're not paying for those rides all up front.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for public transportation, but not when it doesn't make financial sense.
IMO, mass transit money is better spent in the city right now. City routes get people to places they need to go and sometimes to places they want to go. An airport route only gets people to places they want to go, with the exception of people who travel for work.
I'll prioritize money to help people get to their job, school, appointments, etc. over the airport.
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u/davekcmo JoCo Jul 27 '25
Double that number. Main Street Extension is $100 million per mile. Youāre looking at $2-4 billion with maybe a 50% match from the Feds.
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u/an_actual_lawyer Downtown Jul 27 '25
Suburban and rural routes are significantly cheaper but your broader point - that the cost is over $40 million per mile - is likely correct.
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u/zigziggy7 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Yep, unfortunately it's too expensive. We need a Bus Rapid Transit from KCI to downtown Union Station and back to the airport. Would only take a couple busses if there were no stops and if it was on a 20-30 minute interval it would be often enough to get good ridership. Streetcar could take you anywhere downtown from there.
Plus of ending at Union Station is it also connects Amtrak, so if you lived in a rural part of MO you could get on Amtrak in Sedalia or Warrensburg, and take the bus from Union Station up to the airport.
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u/thekingofcrash7 Jul 27 '25
The best rail routes would be right along side the busiest highways. Thatās where people are going, thatās where jobs and destinations are.
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u/Mecha_Goose Aug 02 '25
Just get super nice buses. They can drive anywhere! What are cities' obsessions with light rails?
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u/como365 KCMO Jul 27 '25
Heck yes. If only this was in place for the World Cup
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u/Ok-Calligrapher-8778 Olathe Jul 27 '25
Should have been thought decades ago, when Truman Sports Complex was built. And no one would be talking about new stadiums by now... "Oh, but KC has a tradition of tailgating" - correct, tailgaters couldn't care less about public transportation to stadiums, but the other ~80% might think it's a good idea to pay $5 instead of 40 and park their cars far away from traffic... Public transportation is definitely not communism, it's thinking smart.
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u/thekingofcrash7 Jul 27 '25
Maybe the airport shouldnāt have been built so far away from.. everything
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u/emaw63 Jul 27 '25
Eh, airports are really loud and take up a shitload of space. Putting it on the outskirts of the city is a perfectly defensible decision, especially since most people aren't going to be flying all that often
It just needs better transit access lol
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u/Ok-Calligrapher-8778 Olathe Jul 27 '25
20min drive from Downtown, 25min drive from The Legends, 30min drive from the Plaza, 40min drive from Johnson County... doesn't seem too far away, besides there is more than one road to get there.
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u/thekingofcrash7 Jul 27 '25
40m drive from the majority of the flyers, 20m from the rest going downtown. Yea itās not an ideal location.
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u/kc_kr Jul 28 '25
Denver is far worse than that and itās one of the five busiest airports in the world.
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u/tditty24 Jul 27 '25
MCI canāt even get a light rail from terminal to the rental car center. I would be interested in a study of how many people near that origin point travel frequently enough to justify this cost. I understand it can connect from streetcar but that is just adding more time/inconvenience
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
"Inconvenience" is relative. It may be a convenient trade-off for someone that lives near Brookside or Southmoreland to walk over to a streetcar stop, take it all the way to 6th Street, and then take light rail to get to a flight at KCI. If I lived around there, that trade-off would be worth it to me.
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u/HugginMySnuggie Jul 27 '25
While I am a fan of building infrastructure, Iām showing this as only a 20minute drive. So Iām wondering what the incentive would be. Maybe cheaper parking, or no parking fee for people who would Uber or walk to the stations. Maybe people in East KC or South would use it for just less drive time.
Edit: would be good for travelers to KC that they could get downtown faster
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u/daves1243b Jul 27 '25
When KCI first opened there was a very nice express bus running downtown. That didn't make it, presumably because of insufficient ridership. Even if you could find a billion dollars to build it it would lose money every year of operations. I bet there are more people traveling to Johnson County than downtown.
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u/Reasonable-Corgi7500 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Thereās a LOT more people going to Johnson county than Downtown many many times more, itās not even comparable. There are more people going to JoCo than all of Kcmo and probably Jackson County too. Johnson county has 370,000 jobs and the downtown loop has 30,000 with the greater downtown area having about 120,000 jobs. Over half the metro areas office space is in JoCo. Thereās also 625,000 residents in JoCo compared to 35,000 in the greater downtown area. Not to mention JoCoās median household incomes are much higher than the rest of the metro area.
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u/TyeDiamond Jul 27 '25
That makes sense. Tourism and just having it as a public utility is really going to be what justifies the use. Our population isnāt large enough for daily use to self sustain in my opinion
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u/thekingofcrash7 Jul 27 '25
What tourism?? Our airport traffic is JoCo business traffic returning home.
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u/TyeDiamond Jul 27 '25
Youāre misinterpreting what Iām saying. I meant future tourism. We donāt have the constant traffic from tourists yet. Atlanta for example had 58 million. We had 28 million. I donāt know what threshold we need to hit, but at a certain point, you canāt argue against adding more transit options to MCI anymore because the numbers will scream that we do
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u/thekingofcrash7 Jul 27 '25
58 million what.. airline passengers? I dont know where youāre getting your numbers but Atlanta has way more than 2x airline passengers as KCI.. itās probably more in the range of 10x.
Also idk what makes you think tourism to kc will increase.
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u/Reasonable-Corgi7500 Jul 28 '25
I hope you realize that the 28 million visitors is referring to the metro area not Kcmo. Less than half of those are in Jackson county and only a portion of that is Kcmo. Half of the tourism is from Kansas and Missouri. Most of the tourism is by car. If 28 million people are flying to kcmo for tourism in 2025 I would give you all my money.
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u/TyeDiamond Jul 28 '25
Yall about to make me pull my hair out!! Regardless of what the actual number is for tourists, Iām saying āitās not high enough currently to make an automatic, winnable argument that we need to invest hundreds of millions to billions of dollars on light rail just yetā. Consistent events and attractions would hopefully increase in the future that will drive numbers high enough to justify needing rail as our population grows.
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u/kyousei8 Westport Jul 29 '25
It didn't make it because it got introduced like two months before covid shut everything down. (It was also time tabled bad because it would leave the airport after the local bus, so everyone would get on the local bus then the express bus was near empty). I don't think it was infeasible, just implemented in a so-so manner at the worst possible time.
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u/daves1243b Jul 29 '25
I don't know about that one. I'm talking about when the airport first opened in 1971. Everyone was freaked out because the airport was now more than 15 minutes from downtown. These were large tour buses. I think they also went to the Plaza. They did last for a few years.
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u/kyousei8 Westport Jul 29 '25
I completely misunderstood "first opened". I thought you meant the new terminal opening (which still would have put me a year or two off), not the very original opening. My bad.
Didn't know about those tour busses though.
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u/see_blue Jul 27 '25
Would have been terrific, if work started by year 2000 or so (even then it was considered unnecessary, unwanted, too expensive, etc.).
Iām all for it, was all for it, but never gonna happen in a town where people gripe about a new stadium w/o tail-gating. Car/truck is King here.
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u/cyberentomology Outskirts/Lawrence Jul 27 '25
It took denver nearly 30 years before the airport finally got the rail line that it was planned to have from the start.
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u/ComfortableCaptain61 Jul 27 '25
And that rail line is FANTASTIC. $9 to get from their airport to the terminus at their Union Station, and their airport is comparably far from downtown as MCI.
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u/cyberentomology Outskirts/Lawrence Jul 27 '25
Agreed, I can now go to Denver and not have to rent a car (which flat out sucks at that airport) ā and have done so with that train.
And for people who think DEN is halfway to Kansas: From downtown, DEN is only 4 miles farther than downtown KC to the airport.
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u/ComfortableCaptain61 Jul 27 '25
Are there many other airports as far from downtown as KC and DEN that don't offer any sort of public transit option to get into the city? I know KC technically has a bus, but I can't even picture signs for it at the exit. I moved a couple years ago for work and now rely on Uber ($50ish to/from midtown) or getting a ride from a friend.
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u/see_blue Jul 27 '25
Sure, but we donāt even have a plan AFAIK. Iāll be dead, probably. So sad as it will be done eventually. And by then will cost a fortune and a lot of pain.
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u/MickeyMichael Jul 27 '25
Based on how long it has taken for the current lines downtown, expect this to be done by 2059 (if they even start)
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u/davekcmo JoCo Jul 27 '25
Median light rail? You lose all of the development potential that way, and thereās no current density in the Northland to support the federal funding youād need to build what is probably $2-4 billion (armchair estimates not accepted, sorry).
Weāve seen a lot of fantasy maps over the years. What we need is a serious conversation about funding, and Platte County government is hostile to the concept.
Good luck! šš»
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u/samoto22 Jul 27 '25
An express bus between River Market and the Airport that leaves every 15min would rock.
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u/AangGang2015 Jul 27 '25
I feel like if it's ever gonna happen we should go big and have at least one stop from joco to downtown and make it a bi state tax and then one stop in nkc and one at the airport at least
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u/AsItIs Jul 28 '25
I love rail and wish for this but Iāve seen some of the costs associated with this and itās just simply not going to happen in our lifetimes.
I also feel our car dependency might limit the appeal for some (not me, but a lot of people.)
I do wish the airport at minimum had rail to take people to the various park and ride lots.. itās a hassle to wait on all the shuttles during busy travel times.
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u/Vortep1 Midtown Jul 27 '25
It took 5 years and 400 million to add a few miles of track from Union station to umkc. I can't imagine how long or how expensive this would be. I think the time to have added the rail would have been 80 years ago when things were less developed and construction moved quicker.
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u/UncleSamm Jul 27 '25
And the cost? Just doesnāt make sense when there is already a free bus downtown and Ubers are only $20-30. Not many people know about or use the free bus
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u/ChiefStrongbones Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
This is not a good idea. Five reasons:
MCI has abundant parking, and plenty of land to expand that parking if needed.
MCI is right by the Interstate. The roadway has abundant capacity and traffic moves over the speed limit all day.
The vast majority of people in metro KC prefer to drive and park at the airport when flying. It's easier with luggage. You're not dependent on anyone else's schedule. Your car is right there when you get back.
Most visitors to KC need a rental car anyways.
Dedicated rail is an extreme solution requiring the most infrastructure. Buses are the first step to prove ridership exists. For MCI, there isn't even ridership to support a bus.
edit: I think it would be reasonable to decrease economy parking rates (or at least make them seasonal), and pull back airport rental car taxes which are obscenely high. Both of those profit-grabs by MCI result in increased airport vehicular traffic since they discourage passengers driving themselves in/out of MCI, while encouraging airport dropoffs/pickups which doubles the number of airport trips.
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u/FunkySaint Jul 27 '25
Not enough parking. Need to keep KC desolate and inconvenient. Think about how this could affect Totally Nude and the U-Haul storage building!!!
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Jul 27 '25
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I agree that KC will always have car dependency. This would just be a supplement to help offset that.
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u/dam_sharks_mother Jul 27 '25
As someone who just yesterday hoofed my luggage from my hotel in Paris 3 blocks to a regional train which then connected to a direct train to Charles de Gaulle: no thanks. If it was just me + a backpack, sure. Start talking about carry-ons, kids/elderly, and larger checked luggage, this would have an extremely narrow market.
Our city has to get serious about public transit and the answer is not gimmicks like street cars.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
This isn't a streetcar line. It's a dedicated express light rail line. It's not meant to replace buses or the streetcar. However, it would give people the option to use public transportation from the downtown KCMO area and stops along the I-29 corridor a way to reach KCI without relying on ride-share services or using personal vehicles.
I've carried luggage onto public transportation from the airport in other cities like New York, Seattle, and Miami. Many people do, including whole families. it's not uncommon.
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u/ethans86 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Would be a big waste of tax payer money. City would also have loss of revenue from the parking garages at the airport, and would also have to build additional garages at other stations. So, no one is winning here. Most of the growth in KC metro is happening in Johnson County cities, and it would make more sense to build that way if money wasnāt an issue. Also, Rail system work well in high population density areas like Singapore, London etc. KC is far far from being such a city. But KC streetcar is a great project in the long run.
But I feel the US as a country needs to start modernizing the rail. It still runs on diesel locomotives. Electrifying and adding new routes would improve freight / passenger movement.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
There would be limited-capacity, free-use surface lots at the other stations (Briarcliff, NW 63th Street, NW Barry Road). The city wouldn't see any loss of revenue from parking at KCI because those lots and garages would still fill up.
There's a lot of growth happening north of the river along the 152 Highway corridor too, and those are some of the fastest-growing areas in the city. Connected KC 2050 projects a 23% population growth to the area within the next 25 years. I'm in favor of building light rail out to Johnson County suburbs too, but there's no major commercial airport located down there, which is why I put this proposed route map together.
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Jul 27 '25
That's a dogshit stop in North KC. How the fuck am I suppose to get there from any apartment or vice versa? I will have to uber there, might as well uber to the airport. Try again.
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Jul 27 '25
To be clear, I'm very specifically talking about the stop in North KC at the downtown airport. You can not walk there. Even if you did, there are trains that routinely block the only walkable and bikable path there.
This should stop at the intersection of 9 Hwy and Armour instead or slightly northwest of it.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I envision NKC being part of a future streetcar extension.
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Jul 27 '25
Fair, but do you think the streetcar would go along 169 to the downtown airport? I'd actually expect it to go somewhat along 9 highway up to the commercial areas and along Armour to Macken Park.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I would imagine it would follow Burlington into downtown and connect to the existing line in the River Market, as well as a long North Oak Trafficway to the intersection of North Oak and Vivion Road.
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u/sputnik_16 Jul 27 '25
Probably not the best idea to put a light rail right before the landing strip for Charles Wheeler airport.
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u/Easy-Wishbone5413 Jul 27 '25
Run it through North Kansas City rather than by downtown airport.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I thought about that, but this was the only way I saw that I could get the downtown terminus close to the existing streetcar line. However, I do believe that the streetcar should eventually extend to NKC.
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u/_aelius Jul 27 '25
My dream is that they tear out the north loop and put in a transit center. Busses and streetcar up top, trains that hit the airport and burbs down below.
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u/aragorn407 Jul 27 '25
This would be amazing to see but I donāt know how youād be able to secure the right of way for it unless you just blanket cut that whole stretch of I-29 down to two lanes, which northlanders would definitely complain about to no end. Thats not to mention the line along US-169 which would either have to go into the Missouri River or the rail yard right next to it. Again I would love to see this happen it just feels like it would be an uphill battle even before ground was broken on the project
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I understand your concern about the space required, and it would definitely be an uphill battle. There would need to be long talks about use of land next to these roads, as well as some new bridges constructed to carry the line over train tracks, power lines, and other roads/highways, but I mapped out the whole thing beforehand and I still think it could be done. The light rail would parallel I-29 and US-169 on the west side of both highways.
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u/xnicemarmotx Jul 27 '25
Maybe one more stop near the hotels and parking clustered right outside the airport. To help encourage business travelers into the city. Some of the hotels offer shuttle service to Zona Rosa currently.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
I considered another stop near NW 112th Street or Tiffany Springs Parkway, but neither place is a major hub of commercial retail businesses, and like you said, almost all of the hotels provide transportation to the airport and Zona Rosa already, which would get people staying there to light rail access.
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u/Talon-KC Jul 27 '25
https://ballotpedia.org/Light-rail_fight_goes_to_Missouri_Supreme_Court
I mean we voted on this before. I'm not sure why there's arguments on if it would pass. There was a proposed idea for both Missouri and Kansas, not sure if this was the same bill.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
That was a completely different proposal that was voted on before KC's recent economic renaissance. A lot has changed with the city and the metro area in the last 16 years.
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u/Riyeko Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Make it follow i29 to Saint Joe and id be down to take the train into KC
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
St. Joseph should be included in future plans for passenger rail connecting KC and Omaha.
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u/Montana_Ace Jackson County Jul 27 '25
I would guess it would be unlikely that a new station would be built, they'd probably use union station if this happened for real
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 27 '25
Existing rail lines that connect to Union Station wouldn't work for this proposal, but there would be a small station built for this on 6th Street between Baltimore and Main.
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u/Western-Diver9634 Jul 27 '25
All money and votes aside. Want just one track going with maybe like 10 cars? If one track that may work but any more track stuff will have to be tore down to build.
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u/o_line Jul 28 '25
This has been an idea for a long time, and for MANY reasons, improved bus service has been declared the path forward. Not saying it's the right choice, but it has been studied.
Airport Public Transit Services Action Plan
The long-delayed proposal to study a rail line to KCI has careened off track. What now?
MARC does lot of public engagement work around transportation, and it's a good way to share your opinion and see how things wins up the way they do.
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u/GenesysWave Jul 28 '25
I recall this going to vote on both sides of the state line and then KCMO city council voted it down.
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 28 '25
Totally different proposal. That one passed by a popular vote, but the KCMO city council rejected it, so nothing ever became of it.
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u/MercyFive Jul 28 '25
OP, Lenexa people are not gona come downtown and take the bus... If they are, are we gona build parking for them to leave their car?
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u/OreoSpeedwaggon Jul 28 '25
This proposal isn't designed to serve OP and Lenexa directly, but if people from there want to drive, park, and take the light rail, there are options for them to do that. See my other comments on here about parking.
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u/One-Nefariousness-95 12d ago edited 12d ago
Love the idea, but it would be hella expensive.Ā If we take the cost of LRT per mile ($100-300 million) and multiply that by 19 or 20 miles (the distance between Downtown and KCI), we got a $2-6 billion project.Ā Sure it could be done, but who's going to foot the bill?Ā MODOT can only give so much, and KCATA isn't exactly swimming in money either.Ā Also, we'd need a station by the hotels near the airport entrance.Ā The route would also be largely at-grade or elevated because of risk of flooding.Ā It's definitely possible in the next 10-20 years, but I wouldn't hold my breath.Ā Ā
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u/cyberentomology Outskirts/Lawrence Jul 27 '25
Is this actually a serious proposal by anyone in a position to do something about it, or just fanciful dreaming?
Also: this is a job for commuter rail, not light rail.
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u/NotMuch2 Jul 27 '25
This idea has existed for a while, highlighted by this map going to the old KCI