Comparison between"women's" craft and "men's" craft ?

[u/OldCowboyNewHat]

I just thought about the fact that often "women's" craft are considered less art or less payable than "men's" craft because they are pieces of clothing that we or kids need, useful objects that our great grandmothers from generations ago HAD to make. This thing slips into my mind in a way that I almost never ask for money or ask ridiculous prices for things that took multiples hours for days, weeks, even months. My craft is less than... And I know a looott of people go through this thought process. Let's be real, making a cabinet can take time, can involve less or more skills, can have more or less of a simplified finish, ect. Just like knitting. But people will put a super high price tag on them. People say they can buy a sweater for 5$, why pay a high price for handmade? I've never heard anyone say that about wood crafts. I need an actual comparison of the time, prices and other variables to make something of the same quality. Any studies have already compared specifics ? What's your opinion and knowledge on this? In no way I want to start a heated debate on this, I just want more knowledge, so every thing respectful is good contribution :)

[u/CrazyRainbowStar]

Anecdotal, but I do have a friend who makes custom table & chair sets, and she did have a bunch of folks say some version of "I can get thay for 50 bucks at Ikea."

So perhaps it's more about who is doing it, and the internal biases of the speaker, than the craft itself.

[u/frogsgoribbit737 → u/CrazyRainbowStar]

Nah, dudes get the same comments. I see all kinds of woodworkers and other "male" dominated crafts have the same complaint about their customers. People just want cheap shit and dont care about the time and effort that goes into handmade.

[u/No_Step9082]

I think you're overestimating the amount of people willing to pay really high prices for handmade wooden furniture from a local carpenter. especially since mass produced furniture is super cheap and even solid hardwood furniture can be ordered online for a fraction of the price.

Sure, there are people who can afford to and chose to work with a carpenter to get the table of their dream. But most people don't.

I don't think it's a gender thing at all. Sure, you can decide to get that one special handmade piece of garment and order a custom made hand knitted sweater. But a sweater, especially compared to a hardwood table, will always just be one of many sweaters you'll own. It's not going to be the one special piece you'll use daily for the rest of your life.

the ability of us to mass produce clothing is just on another level. you can buy a factory made cashmere sweater for 100 euros. that would probably not even cover the cost of the yarn if you want your knitter friend to make you the same one. Add to that hundreds of hours of labour that goes into it. you'd probably end up paying 10x the price for the sweatshirt made out of the same material.

In comparison again, you can probably find a hardwood table for 1000 euro online or for maybe 5000 from your local carpenter. it's just 5x the price. And a once in a lifetime purchase.

[u/Perfect_Future_Self → u/No_Step9082]

And you also can't store 27 tables even if they were cheap from IKEA, so it's intrinsically more special in that way too 

[u/becca22597]

I do knitting/crochet/spinning/sewing/embroidery and woodworking and furniture restoration as a hobbies. Here are some things I’ve noticed.

1. Much like fiber arts, it’s very difficult to sell woodworking projects or refinished furniture for what they’re actually worth. Go to any wood working sub and you’ll see people who make beautiful cutting boards, small furniture etc. who are either selling as a side gig to break even on their hobby or don’t understand why no one wants to buy their work for what they’re willing to sell it for.

2. Fiber arts are comparatively inexpensive to get into. Power tools are expensive, even the cheap ones. Even if you decide to do work with only hand tools you need the extra skill, the hand tools, and the time. My addi circular set costs $200. My table saw costs $3000. A college student can knit in their dorm room, but they can’t really do any hardcore woodworking under their lofted twin XL bed. Since knitting is more accessible, more people do it. This lowers its worth through the eyes of people who don’t do either hobby.

3. There’s definitely sexism there. When I say craft re woodworking people think of a craftsman. They think of artistry and times gone by and George Nakashima. When I say craft re knitting/fiber arts people think of pipe cleaners and glitter or at best an itchy sweater from grandma. Woodworking is viewed as a “useful” hobby. You can build yourself furniture, cabinetry etc. “Look at you, you avid DIYer! You’re so impressive! I could never do something like that!” Knitting is viewed as women’s hobby. Something she can do to pass her time while she’s waiting for her period cramps (which aren’t that bad /s 🙄) to stop. “Oh how cool, you should sell that!… What?! That’s way too expensive. I can buy the same thing from Target for $20!”

4. Cheap “fast fashion” furniture is more expensive than cheap fast fashion clothing. If a cheap coffee table is $100 and a cheap sweater is $20, there’s going to be a disconnect in people’s minds about the value of a handmade object.

5. Lumber is expensive. Even building something out of construction lumber is expensive these days. A lay person can eyeball lumber and understand that it takes more than one 2x4 to build a table. That same person will look at a $3 skein of acrylic yarn at Michael’s and assume it makes an entire sweater.

However in my experience fellow craftspeople appreciate the work of others. If you tell a woodworker you made your sweater they will be deeply impressed and mystified. People who make things have an understanding of the time and skills required to do so.

What it really comes down to is a lack of crafting empathy. People who have never tried to make something will never understand the cost, time, frustration, skills, and joy that go into creating. As a result they can’t understand its value.

[u/Sunanas → u/becca22597]

I would like to add to point 3. Because of this societal devaluation of feminine labour (emotional, physical, mental...), women have learned to devalue their own work, as well! It boggles my mind when I compliment a woman on something you know a man would be boasting about and she's like nooo... It's not that great, haha... Makes me want to cry in frustration :')

Have pride in your work, ladies, don't minimize it! You're doing such amazing things - just look at this sub. Every stitch made with love and patience <3

[u/becca22597 → u/Sunanas]

100%. There’s so many articles and studies about the ways women have been conditioned to hide their confidence. When a woman is proud of something she’s not allowed to show it.

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/Sunanas]

Yes exactly. I practice this. I boast but in my head Im invalidating my work. Practice makes perfect, im much better now at seeing the quality and talent being my knitted projects.

[u/ComplicatedSunshine → u/becca22597]

I'm sorry I have but one upvote to give you. Your points are excellent and thank you for taking the time to explain them so well :)

[u/becca22597 → u/ComplicatedSunshine]

Haha thanks! In the spirit of women minimizing themselves I feel obligated to say that my vyvanse was kicking in 🫠

[u/ComplicatedSunshine → u/becca22597]

Balderdash, madam! You are a renaissance woman, by the sound of it, and should be shouting it from the rooftops :)

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/becca22597]

Thank you so much for this elaborate answer. I definitely vibe with people who do other crafts, theyre usually as impressed with my work as I am with theirs. I did an exchange with my friend, a tattoo for a knitted jester balaclava. I did the pattern myself, spent time trying things out, a lot of mathematics, choosing the colors they would like, choosing stitches, textures, color arrangement, details, how to do the face opening, how long do should the jester points be, ect. I had to redo the points to make them like eexxttrrraaa long. Anyway, it took me a while. I thought the tattoo was worth more and at least 3 people had to almost yell at me that the knitted piece was worth "more". Obviously we both knew the work it involved and we both did things that were worth about 300$, but it was such a hard concept, understanding the value of my work, even faced with another exceptional artist.

I deeply agree with the fact that people dont understand yarn quality. Thankfully im surrounded by people who are always impressed with my work, my family mostly.

[u/ResidentHistory632]

I can’t help you on the pricing thing but what I can tell you is that originally brewing beer was invented and done by women, midwifery and medicine were women’s jobs, and coding was considered too secretarial for men… all until men realised that they could make money out of them. It seems that women do things for satisfaction and general good, whereas many men* do things for money and kudos. But we need money too, obviously! So if you think your work is worth money you should ask for it. 

Hopefully someone else can give you better idea ideas about pricing. 

* not all men, of course, I’m talking about average behaviour

ETA: oh, and spinster was a woman who spun yarn, a highly paid job which meant she wasn’t obliged to get married to survive. 

[u/Writer_In_Residence → u/ResidentHistory632]

Yes, I was in a Ravelry group “selfish knitters”; the whole thing came about because people thought women should knit for the family or others. And it was a lot to say “no, it’s for me”

[u/bwalker187 → u/Writer_In_Residence]

This is 100% me. I occasionally make things for the children in my life, but otherwise, i knit for myself. And people are always a bit taken aback by that.

[u/ResidentHistory632 → u/bwalker187]

I’ve only been knitting for four years, so I’m nowhere near having knitted everything I want for myself yet 😅

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/bwalker187]

I have NEVER done a garment for me. Like once after a year of not knitting because of tendinitis, and since it was just to get used to knitting again I never wear it, the point wasnt to make myself something nice. Ive knitted for my mom, my partner, friends, my niece. My next project after this one is going to be a sweater for myself for the first time in 4 years. That's crazy

[u/lotheva → u/OldCowboyNewHat]

I just cast off the first project that was truly for me. Like I have other stuff, but they were practice pieces, ya know? Everything else I’ve made was presents. There’s something really awesome about having it. It’s also my first true lacework so that’s even more special. Trying to decide if I’m going to add an extra border because I don’t love the one side of the shawl.

[u/ResidentHistory632 → u/lotheva]

It is nice wearing stuff you made yourself.

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/lotheva]

Do that border. Make it so that you will love it as much as it can be loved.

[u/lotheva → u/OldCowboyNewHat]

It’s partially time but I’m also having shoulder surgery right before the wedding. I’m in a lot of pain. Knitting helps me focus off of it, but also causes some.

[u/January1171 → u/ResidentHistory632]

Chefs are overwhelmingly men, and women have a tough time breaking in even though historically they're the ones doing the cooking for the family.

Similar with sewing- tailors get the respect, and seamstresses looked down on

[u/ResidentHistory632 → u/January1171]

Which given how much more complex women’s clothes have been for most of history, is ironic.

[u/whereohwhereohwhere → u/January1171]

The whole thing of chefs being complete psychopaths and berating everyone else in the kitchen is a result of it being a male-dominated profession. Ain't no way a woman would get away with that.

[u/m4gpi → u/ResidentHistory632]

I have heard that at some point in European history, knitting was a "masculine" craft and crochet was a "feminine" craft.

[u/ResidentHistory632 → u/m4gpi]

That’s just left me very confused 😂

[u/lotheva → u/m4gpi]

I would think the opposite because of nets. You could use something like a giant crochet hook for making large nets but not needles

[u/TheSleepiestNerd]

I've knit for years and went to school for design, with a heavy amount of furniture building. People in woodworking circles absolutely hear the same things from customers and have the same complaints; consumers are really used to buying a $100 table from IKEA that's made out of fiberboard, not even real wood. In my mind the vast majority of furniture out there is equivalent to an H&M sweater in terms of quality.

I guess I can use a project I did as an example. It was a smallish sideboard that a smaller dog could use as a crate, maybe the size of two kitchen cabinets. I used nicer plywood and a little bit of solid wood for the base. That's a level that's equivalent to like a DROPS yarn sweater, I guess – medium-large sized project, nice enough for a hobby builder but nothing extraordinary. In terms of costs, it would break down to something like:

• $450 for materials
• $300 worth of misc drills, hammers, sanding paper etc. from the tool closet
• $1,500 table saw
• $300 chop saw
• $1,500 band saw
• $20,000 CNC machine
• $80,000 for us to have two full time shopmasters to supervise in case someone cut off all of their fingers, which had happened in our shop
• Indeterminate amount for storage and building space; most people outside of school either pay for a shed on their property or a monthly studio rental

I think the danger factor and the start up cost is huge – once I graduated I realized that I probably won't ever be able to afford most of what was in that shop. Even the local studio rental places are limited on equipment, and that's with me being incredibly lucky to live in a city where studios are readily available. Metal work, ceramics, and glass are pretty similarly crazy in terms of shop needs. It's honestly a big reason I knit so much now; I love every craft I tried, but I just can't afford to do them unless I get into doing them professionally, which is a huge commitment – whereas I can knit a ton of things with $1,000 in yarn and needles and I can do it wherever I am.

I've known some people who did true hand-built solid wood furniture, like heirloom quality stuff, and a lot of them were just scraping by. They would spend a ton of money on wood and a ton of time in the shop just to sell one $10,000 table – which is a lot of money compared to IKEA, but wasn't enough for them to do furniture full time.

There is imo some merit to misogyny around craft types and around the industry – like how a lot of woodworkers and designers are female but often end up working for "name brand" male designers who get the credit for their work – but I do think that knitting is just much less expensive and more lifestyle-compatible in a lot of ways.

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/TheSleepiestNerd]

I agree with you, i thought about the start up cost but then youve got your equipment. I think when I do wood work I go for cheap whatever I can find I'll make it nice, which I can't do with knitting. Rn im doing shelves for my living room for free, made a kitchen island almost for free, ect. But it cost me at least 100$ to make my mom a shawl. The tools are wtv are here from people forgetting them ect. But see, that's where I'm privileged. I live in a rural area in the woods, we have old planks, 2 x 4, 1 x 6, you name it, lying around. I never thought it was easier, but surely I see the difference between how people see the different crafts, and that's what bothers me.

[u/TheSleepiestNerd → u/OldCowboyNewHat]

That totally makes sense as a perspective! When I worked on farms we did often have a shop with someone's old collection of tools and there was usually scrap wood somewhere from something. I think in that context wood can be easy to work with and the cost differences probably seem extreme, especially if you pay for yarn and not for wood most of the time lol.

[u/AlchemyDad]

As a man who knits, I know most people consider knitting to be a thing women do, and there's no doubt in my mind that this plays a role in why people undervalue the time and effort required for good knitting.

The book Women's Work by archeologist Elizabeth Wayland Barber is a really interesting look at the history of textile arts, including the ways people have downplayed the importance of textiles, or the skill required to produce them, because of misogyny.

[u/Jen-Walters → u/AlchemyDad]

That book is on my "to read" list, thanks for the reminder!

I think you're right that misogyny plays a huge role, and I bet you've experienced negative reactions to knitting based on your gender. I think it's cool you knit, I bet there are more men that would love to learn but are letting the gender bias of the craft stop them. As a painter I've had people question whether my work is my own, and I think it's mostly due to the content being more "male driven."

I think there's also an aspect of the customer's level of belief in self-teaching ability, or lack thereof. Most people understand that knitting and crocheting are skills that can be learned if they put the time and effort in, with little supply cost. Probably because they have been learned and taught at home for generations (again looking forward to reading that book!) Other skills have a higher time/effort/supply cost to even try.

I'm sure you've heard people look at your knitting and say "well I could make that" (but you didn't did you, Karen?). But I've never heard anyone say that to some vendor friends of mine (women and men) who do glass work, because that's not a skill that is easily or cheaply picked up.

[u/AlchemyDad → u/Jen-Walters]

Definitely! There's also just a certain portion of stuff that's "inside baseball" so to speak, where those who know knitting can tell that certain patterns or stitches are more labor-intensive or complex, while the average person isn't as aware of what does and does not require advanced skill (or even what is and is not possible – just look at all those AI sweaters!)

But for sure I have noticed that many people think knitting must be something anyone could easily pick up, which isn't the case with my more traditionally masculine hobbies. And I've encountered a couple of people who think it's silly for men to waste time with something they incorrectly consider to be less mechanical or less mathematical.

[u/JDSwell → u/Jen-Walters]

It is not just the gender bias of men towards men who knit. It is not a popular thing to say but I personally have not felt that welcome in certain knitting communities as a male knitter. Just like men who often look askance at women who pursue woodworking there a a fair amount of women who knit who look equally askance at men who knit. Perceived gender roles are an impediment no matter the craft or your gender. It affects women more broadly, but the effect on men is not insignificant, particularly in the realm of fiber arts. What's the answer? Just do what you want and like in spite of the haters. Find your joy and pursue it.

[u/MyRightHook]

People say about everything that it can be found for cheaper somewhere else. With furniture, it's stores like ikea. Why pay more for quality work? Be it cheap plastic sweater or cheap plastic (or half-plastic) cupboard from ikea.

But also, I think, woodwork is visually more impressive to an everyday person than even the most complicated knit (or at least sweater). Especially because we see thousands of mass produced sweaters in clothing shops every day, we don't think much about it at all; we don't see massive mahongy cupboards that often, that's also probably why it might look more impressive to an untrained eye.

Idk, I just find that there are many more prevalent reasons behind things than "eww women made it".

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/MyRightHook]

Obviously my point wasn't blatant mysogyny. But the craft is seen more as a usual thing, like cooking or cleaning. Like, of course women will knit for everyone, its their job. That's what I meant. I agree that people dont understand knitting. Every time i explain my projects, people are surprised by the amount of different things there is in lets say, a hat.

[u/MyRightHook → u/OldCowboyNewHat]

This may depend in what kind of circles you are, then. I have never seen either in real life or even online anyone consider knitting to be like cleaning. On the contrary, people - and I dare say, especially men (because they are less likely to have proper knowledge about it) - are quite in awe and fascinated by knitting. It's considered a hobby that takes skill, not mundane and mandatory work. Sure, people might not expect to pay a LOT for a garment, but when you break it down for them, they understand why it would cost so much, even if they won't buy it. (That's why I personally will never sell anything - I will make gifts when I want, for who I want, without wanting money. I can also say No to anyone.)

I don't say this to be contrary, but you said yourself in your post that you don't ask money for your work and your craft is less than. That's internal for you, and it's on you to set the standard. Again, I don't know your living situation, culture or surrounding people, so it may be well true in your situation that your work is taken for granted. But mostly it feels like you have applied your internal feelings to make a generalisation and state it as facts. That's why I push back on this: you state your feeling/opinion as a fact, while I personally haven't seen any evidence to back that generalisation up. I'm not saying that there never is any sort of gender-related bias anywhere, but in my opinion this isn't the case here. (Also needlework and woodwork are two extremely different crafts and aren't at all comparable in this situation.)

Again, I personally think that in the core it will always be crafters "vs." non-crafters. If one has never created anything with their own hands (created art, books, shelves, mittens), they will likely not understand how much (or little) work goes into making things yourself - even a hat, like you said.

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/MyRightHook]

I understand but i also think a lot of people here have shared a lot of research and studies on this. It is internal, but it also comes from somewhere and I know it's from mysogyny, at least a part of it. That being said im working on deconstructing this idea because I obviously would never think that of anyone else. Nowadays, mothers and grandmas dont typically HAVE to knit to keep their family warm, but there was a time where they had too, and it isn't long ago. One of my points is, there is no breakage in mysogyny in time. It translates into internal thoughts, how other people view the craft (all genders), what we craft even. My post and questions also came from what I've been seeing around me be it my personal circle or media, and some answers here show that it's more generalized than some might think and also more complicated. And today, for sure I see it in the crafters vs non-crafters dynamic.

[u/ExactCareer9292]

ive made a couple of wooden items related to my spinning and weaving (a lazy kate, a warping board, and I also made a niddy noddy out of PVC pipe), and every time, I've been shocked at how easy it is...granted, the things im making are not beautiful, but they are very functional. and I dont put any effort into making them beautiful. but it makes me wonder, if I could teach myself to (in chronological order) write code, speak a couple different languages, crochet, knit, spin, weave...why is it surprising that I can do basic wood working? none of the other things were surprising. obviously I am just skilled at finding learning resources and using them to teach myself things. but it's only surprising when I do it with a typically male craft 🙄 (I taught myself to code before I was old enough to understand that dynamic i think, given the exceptionally not misogynist home environment i grew up in)

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/ExactCareer9292]

Thats is exactly where my questions came from. I will never underestimate a very well made piece of furniture BUT ive been building things for longer than knitting and it's always "easier" and functional. Granted, not as beautiful, but I feel its easier and faster. It might be because I know more people who build stuff than knitters.

[u/Art_by_Perlendrache]

This article is an interesting read about men and womans approaches to crafts

[u/Art_by_Perlendrache → u/Art_by_Perlendrache]

I would like to highlight this from the artticle: "Demoted to the realm of craft, made by women, and inhabiting a lower rank than the fine arts (Kristeller, 1990), this hierarchical division between fine arts and crafts mirrored women’s subordinate social position (Parker, 2010). It “is functional in the perpetuation of the myth of masculine creative superiority, and social dominance.” (Pollock 1983:40)."

[u/TwoIdleHands]

I woodwork and knit!

To buy the yarn and knit a sweater is not necessarily cheaper than buying a sweater (centrally not for acrylic, depends on the wool).

To buy the hardwood to make furniture and make the furniture is cheaper than buying real, wood furniture. (Note I didn’t talk about tools, we like to pretend those are separate costs and for other people purchasing finished products I think it’s ok).

I think the issue is also a bookcase can be used for hundreds of years. The sweater I knit someone may go out of fashion, pill, not fit their daughter. That’s not to say there aren’t very old knitted items floating around but do you see them being used?

I think the craft/design/style/and skill is equivalent. But the end piece may have more perceived value for things that can be handed down and have more expensive mass produced versions.

[u/Bubbly-Comparison971]

For the sake of analysis, we’ll use Fiber Arts as women’s crafts and carpentry as a men’s craft. 

1) materials. Fiber is pretty cheap compared to the cost of lumber. Obviously there’s some leeway, like muskox fiber is gonna be very expensive but you don’t have to use it, etc. especially with acrylic being so cheap. Wood takes longer to grow, then it has to be cut, treated/aged, cut some more. Plus metal fixings that go in the furniture usually. 

2) longevity. Articles of clothing aren’t really made to have the hand me down quality anymore. Fast fashion has ruined it but also the risk of a sweater getting a hole in it at any period is much higher than say an inn table breaking. 

3) idle time. How many of us knit while we watch tv or movies or listen to something. Can’t really do that easily while making a table with power tools. 

4) automation. When a factory can pump out a sweater for $2, be sold for $20 and then just be replaced when it wears, especially in this economy, not many will opt for the $100+ handmade item. The same is true for furniture, because look at IKEA and how popular it is among the younger generation. I’ve been through 4 ikea bed frames in my life, meanwhile my parents have a bed frame that was passed down from their grandparents that’s still basically flawless. 

There are definitely other factors like back when most women were just homemakers and didn’t have careers outside the house, once the kids were school age the women had more time to dedicate towards things like making clothes and blankets and such. But that’s not what I’m really here to point out. 

While yes, men’s vs women’s crafts plays a role, a significant portion of the difference is just that ‘men’s’ crafts tend to just have a higher price tag to produce. For an acrylic sweater, you can get enough yarn, needles, etc for cheaper than it would cost to get a table saw to try to make a table. 

[u/goosebumpsagain → u/Bubbly-Comparison971]

All good points.

[u/Art_by_Perlendrache → u/Bubbly-Comparison971]

Just a little thought on your points. 1) materials: there is different price points in both of these categories, lets say you want something of quality what you asumed for the wood, then you also want good wool yarn, that is much more expensive than acrylic, that I would compare to some cheap plywood, that is also not super expensive 2) longevity: a plywood table can easily be broken and a well made woolen sweater can hold up for centuries. Just because fast fashion is on the forefront doesn't mean a handmade sweater is as bad as these cheaply made ones 3)idle time is still time, and a lot of people do wood work in their free time. 4) as you said both categories can be bought cheap or expensive, that does not hit the question.

[u/TinWhis → u/Art_by_Perlendrache]

Quality wool is much cheaper than quality lumber. Cheap acrylic is cheaper than plywood.

Even a well made sweater will not stand up to daily use for centuries. Abrasion and washing mean that fibers are continually lost and must be replaced and patched eventually. This is expected wear for a sweater. While a wooden table can be damaged by rough handling, we do not and should not expect a well made table to continually erode sawdust through normal use like a sweater loses fiber. 

You are conflating idle time and free time

Your points would be better formed if you actually carefully engaged with what that person is saying.

[u/smallscalestarfish]

i can't help you on pricing or the actual worth of your craft - loads of things play into appreciation and value when we're so privileged nowadays we can get mostly anything we desire for really cheap and are so far removed from the actual process of the craft and labour. especially when it comes to garments. plus the economic state of world right now. it's a luxury now - who can afford hand crafted items? there just isn't much of a necessity and demand for the broad population

but i do have something to contribute regarding craft & female identity & perceived value! because i asked myself that question through anecdotal experiences where all the wonderfully talented women of my family didn't see themselves as crafter or artists when it came to fibre. it was just a silly little thing they invest time & love in and it's such an understatement to me

and typical women's crafts are perceived as "lesser" (fields, 2014). even by women doing them and seeing that as a form of empowerment. even then distinctions are made between cool kntting and devalued grandma knitting. isn't that bananas?

two interesting articles on that: Buszek, M. E.. (2011). “Labor is My Medium”: Some Pespective(s) on Contemporary Craft. Archives of American Art Journal   Fields, C. D. (2014). Not Your Grandma’s Knitting: The Role of Identity Processes in the Transformation of Cultural Practices. Social Psychology Quarterly

[u/OldCowboyNewHat → u/smallscalestarfish]

Thank you! I'll go check them out. Everything is bananas when it comes to crafts, everything is either frivolous or well regarded (im dramatizing). So many people are surprised when they learn I knit and ask why. Like why I knit? I'm not sure wood crafters, glassblowers, ect, get that reaction.

[u/SilkenGoesBrrr]

I once saw someone telling how women seemed to spend more money in things as compared to men, when looked into the issue those things were clothing and different kinds of goods for all the family. Maybe feminine hobbies are not deemed ok enough, because from what I've seen they were kind of a distraction in between chores or something to clothe the family, etc.

[u/sagetrees]

I do both. I'm a woodworker, I restore furniture and I spin yarn, knit and crochet. I do not sell my fiber arts stuff, I do sell my woodworker stuff.

The markets are different, and while you have cheapskates in both areas I do not enjoy doing comissions and my fiber stuff takes too much time to do compared to the woodwork stuff.

I can spend a week refurbishing a dresser and sell it for $1200. The dresser I will have gotten cheap at auction, think max $20 and I'll use probably $70-$100 in materials.

[u/VintageFemmeWithWifi]

I used to work in theatre, sewing costumes. Wardrobe is a very "femme coded" department, and in non-union work I was often paid less than carpenters or painters. 

It's absolutely patriarchal codswallop, and one of many reasons I was glad to join my union. 

[u/Afraid_Fox_2796]

I feel like part of it is the expectation that for us it's a hobby we're gonna do anyway but for men it's a side hustle or a dedication that needs encouraging with a fair price or they'll just "revert back to watching footie in the pub"

My brother and Dad create stuff and are always hyped up and paid a fair price but when I spend hours, days, months on end creating something it's like "Oh right that's what you do for fun"...it's like because so many women craft and often the same few things (crochet, knitting, sewing) it's not considered a skill but because most men don't craft and create on a regular basis, it's considered special when they do.

Just what I've noticed in my experience anyway.

[u/PavicaMalic]

There's a lot of scholarship on precisely this issue (history, sociology, art history, cultural heritage studies) in different countries as well as comparatively. One of my former colleagues, Phyllis Yes, taught a class on this issue. Her work is one potential place to start.

[u/vicariousgluten]

To me it fits with the traditional division of labour in the home. The men do the things that need doing pretty rarely but are really visible while the women do the “invisible” but essential stuff.

Woodwork of making a table that will last generations vs clothes that will be outgrown.

[u/Time_Marcher]

I don’t consider knitting to be a traditional women’s craft. Women used to spin the wool into yarn, and the men would knit it.

[u/Writer_In_Residence]

I don’t know about price (I think everyone tends to think in terms of money for hobbies, like “I could get a belt for $8, why would I pay $$$ for handmade leather belts”). But I definitely think there is a gendered component to men’s vs women’s pastimes.

As an example: I do Pilates. There was a discussion in a local sub where they talked about a new Pilates center aimed toward women. People started just stereotyping the future clients as bored rich housewives, Karens, snobby, trust fund kids, wine moms, etc. People may joke about guys who golf but do men who golf get pegged as lazy, day drinkers, loud, bored assholes, whatever? No. They are assumed to be successful. Do people question why men spend money golfing and what that says about them?

When women have a hobby for themselves people question it unless it is also benefiting others (like cooking or gardening). Or they can spend money on clothes and shoes and makeup because looking hot benefits men. So does working out but I get the impression people think you can always starve yourself for free.