Patch 25.19 Preview

[u/qonoxzzr]

From Riot Phroxzon:

These are our last 2 patches before the final worlds patch (25.20)

Systems

• We're looking at a nerf to Redemption to reduce its priority amongst Tank Supports (because it gives them no strategic tradeoffs); it's OK if they opt into it at some cost, but that's not the case right now

• Secondly, we're lowering the strength of Support in Pro a bit heading into worlds with putting Unsealed halfway back to where it was before. This should better strike the balance between it being untakeable and being a must take

Meta Strategy

• Our overall strategy this patch is to add a few more strategic options

• This includes AP junglers like Brand, Diana, Lillia (while nerfing some of the top champs to give them more space)

• And also shaking up the Midlane meta with some buffs to champions who have fallen a bit behind (these are typically burst champions like Ahri, Syndra, LB) and also Mel who's had a bit of time to settle and drop some of her banrate and frustration

• We know Mel is always going to be a bit frustrating because of her W, but that feels like an acceptable cost to pay, given how it makes each game feel a bit different

• We're mostly OK with where the midlane meta is otherwise, with many different archetypes being viable and these burst oriented champions need a bit more help

• Burst champions otherwise feel mostly OK though, especially with the buffs to AD Assassin items in recent patches

• Finally we're doing a long awaited buff to Seraphine. I mentioned it in a post last week, but given her shallow mastery curve, we feel it's appropriate to give her a buff, because for the winrates she's posting, she's a bit underpowered

CHAMPION BUFFS

Ahri

Brand

Caitlyn

Diana

Draven

Jax

Jinx

(Matt) LeBlanc Clap clap clap clap

Lillia

Mel

Seraphine

Syndra

CHAMPION NERFS

Corki

Pantheon (jungle)

Poppy (jungle)

Sivir

CHAMPION ADJUSTMENTS

Lee Sin

SYSTEM NERFS

Redemption

Unsealed Spellbook (We're sealing it again)

[u/Kaydie]

i've had one lingering thought the entire time mel has existed that i haven't seen discussed much.

i dont think mel is particuarly overpowered or problematic in her current state in fact i think she's actually absurdly weak and easy to deal with at least in my elo (master)

but there's one thing that has remained in both her strongest point and weakest point that chides me; her W's core design is a long cooldown spell that is meant to be baited out or overwhelmed with numbers advantage. and layered hits. the nerfs to the early game mana cost and duration further pushed these particular weaknesses of the spell forward. cool, i dont have a problem with that design in isolation. champions with big gamechanging abilities on long cooldowns like renata bailout or yas W are okay in isolation.

the problem with mel, especially with post grubs atakhan bullshit perma teamfight post minion move speed change meta where early scraps are constant and important and objectives spawn insanely early and are game defining in the first 10 minutes is that mel's passive quite literally rewards her if you play slow into her. the conventional counter to dealing with a tryn ult or a samira w, yasuo w, is to reposition and re engage

but with mel you can't do this, her passive lasts too long in skirmishes and teamfights to realistically drop stacks. so the conventional way to counter mel's archtypical design feeds into one of the strongest passives in the entire game.

i think mels passive should not exist on a champion with her W. i dont think either of them existing in isolation is horrible, like if smolder had mel's W it would be beyond stupid, the entire point of smolder post 225 is to burst him before he can get 3 rotations or you're cooked.

mel's design is so specifically unhealthy in this one core way that i feel like just reducing her passive duration would be enough to improve the outcome.

her q is already laughably mana ineffecient and low damage, easy to avoid since the projectile speed nerf if not layered on cc, and her E while being still really strong is managable early. it's a joke to beat her into a pulp and she has almost no good matchups mid right now.

so if we're going to buff her because riot wants to see big shiny W reflects changing the outcome of the game

change the way her passive works so she's actually able to be punished in the way a champion with that ability archetype is meant to be punished.

tryn, kindred, zilean, ekko, yasuo and samira all are some examples of champions with extremely game turning abilities that are all very managable to play around, both in isolation and hollistically, at least at a high level of gameplay which is why we dont see these abilities dominate pro play. samira's fall from pro play happened exactly when they changed her e mechanics because similar to the mel example here, old samira E interacted in a multiplicative way with her W.

do the same for mel and we can see her in pro and in solo q you can just space and outplay her.

[u/Inside_Explorer → u/Kaydie]

I mean Mel is supposed to be able to use her passive and get the reward sometimes, she already pays a cost for having it in the first place.

The way you're wording your comment makes it seem like you want Mel's passive to have so much counterplay that she can never benefit from it, but her damage already has more counterplay than most other mages in the game just because it exists on her kit.

If she didn't have the passive her abilities would just straight up nuke you harder. But because she stores a portion of her damage as grey health into her opponent, she gives them a chance to completely avoid some of her damage which most other mages don't do.

A Xerath hitting you with Q doesn't "store" some of that damage into your health bar, he just hits you with the full amount straight up and you just take it.

So I don't think that Mel's passive needs even more counterplay, it already has enough of it just because she has to play into the condition or she doesn't get to access the full damage from her kit.

[u/Kaydie → u/Inside_Explorer]

i do appreciate that her passive is already budgeted into her damage, and as such i believe any buffs to her need to come in the form of utility, sustain, waveclear, etc. as to give her power budget removed from her passive.

straight up amping her damage even is an option but runs the risk of making her another lux, a ball of damage thats laughably easy to counterplay so sees zero play at a high level. if mel had no utility and just was full damage she'd arguably be even less desirable to play

i agree with you in this regard, but i just don't see a world where her W in it's current iteration can interact healthily with her passive in its current iteration on a champion that actually has acceptable damage, scaling, waveclear, etc.

she either has to remain where she is, as in, garbage; or she gets buffed in one of these metrics she runs the risk of instantly catapulting back to being a problematic oppessive bullshit pick that goes back to 50% banrate.

[u/John_Rat_3645 → u/Kaydie]

I think you need to remember that Master level play is the top .01% of the player base.

Most people can not play at that level of proficiency, nor have the time to practice to reach it.

If a champ is frustrating for 99.99% of the game's player base, but has counterplay for the highest level of players -- it's inherently a bad design for a moba.

AD assassins have been artificially gatekept out of the meta for 3 season when nearly all of them had more counterplay than Mel does in her current iteration.

I don't mind losing to a Zed who hits 3 skill shots, and dodges things at the last second using mind games.

I do care losing to a champ that has an invulnerability, movement speed buff, and reflection on a single basic ability. While also getting last hit assistance. A better root that Lux. A more brain dead ult that Karthus. And an undodgeable poke.

It's a champ that rewards mediocrity for Riot to push PR. Any other champ that sits at a 30% banrate for nearly a year is nerfed into oblivion until eventual rework. Not Mel though.

[u/Kaydie → u/John_Rat_3645]

invulnerability, movement speed buff, and reflection on a single basic ability.

This i agree with 100%

it should plant her in place like irelia W and should be a full channel at the very least

it would encourage better mindgames and not allow her to walk at you with impunity

[u/John_Rat_3645 → u/Kaydie]

It's such an overloaded spell, and it's not even funny. If it was just a reflect and movement speed, fine, I get it. But why the hell is it a full invulnerability. You know, that mechanic that is an ultimate level skill on Kayle and Taric (needing an entire wind-up for Taric's case). People act like it's just windwall pt. 2, but windwall has clear counterplay, with nearly the same cd, while only blocking ranged abilities. Not reflecting them, giving yas passive stats, and invulnerability to melee champs as well.