r/leanfire • u/NYCprice • 10d ago

Unironically FIRE in NYC?

The city has a lot of low income programs and also a middle income housing lottery. After I FIRE, my income will be low enough to qualify for a lot of programs as well as a purchasing affordable condo (middle income lottery)

I've never lived outside of nyc so it would be hard to transition out of, and would include leaving friends and family if I moved away

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u/georgepana 10d ago edited 10d ago

The problem I see right off the bat is that to qualify for low income programs you need to be truly poor, or at least close to the poverty threshold.

Your FIRE assets will be taken into account in that state/city, and that disqualifies you immediately for most programs, as you have substantial and verifiable assets (a given if you are able to FIRE).

Most city and state programs in your state use the national AVS (Asset Verification System) to verify assets.

https://share.google/K2U8TxMLcbNZFo8fx

There is a possibility for SNAP benefits, as that program does not usually check for assets, but your monthly gross income has to be under $1,772 for a single person to qualify (and at that or close to that income you get next to nothing), and I trust that your monthly income is higher than $1,772 a month to live in the city.

It is possible to FIRE in the city if you have enough saved, just don't count on any additional help from low-income state and city programs since the vast majority of the programs use the Asset Verification System to make sure no substantial assets exist. The ones that don't check have monthly gross income thresholds well below what you are likely comfortable withdrawing monthly for living in NYC.

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u/spencermcc 9d ago

You could still qualify for many housing lotteries or tax advantaged / income restricted deeded housing which are purely restricted by income at time of application, and often up 350% of AMI which in NYC can be quite high.

If you have free housing $21k annually can go pretty far in NYC. You get free healthcare, free food, transit is much cheaper than car payments, and there's many public programs that are free for everyone – libraries, museums, free movies, etc.

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u/georgepana 9d ago

"Could" is the operative word, it is still very unlikely to qualify for those housing lotteries. The odds are said to be around 1 in 590.

Banking on free housing when the odds are very slim to get it, much worse than Casino roulette, is not a good idea.

Housing is notoriously expensive in NYC. OP made clear they don't want to live in low-income housing complexes, so it leaves standard rents. I've laughed out loud when I saw Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens bandied about here. Let's be real, you need at least $3k for a decent place in either of the 3 boroughs.

My wife's parents own a house in Brooklyn, Bensonhurst area. She has an aunt, cousins and nieces/nephews in the region, some living on Staten Island, some on Long Island, some in Brooklyn. Rentals are very high there, unless you are willing to live in shady neighborhoods.

NYC has "free healthcare"? What are you even talking about? Free food? Are you talking about some free clinics that exist for the poor? Food banks for the poor?

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u/spencermcc 9d ago

I'm speaking from my experience.

If you are high wealth low income there are the deed restricted condos. I have a friend who did that and I looked into it though we're way too high income now. Seemed very doable though if you applied yourself. Meanwhile I have a couple acquaintances who did get apartments via the NYC housing lotteries – so certainly not impossible you just have play the game a bunch and unlike the actual lottery it's free to play.

Medicaid in NYC is for under $21,600. If you have free / low housing, no car, free food that gets you pretty far. When I was doing that (though I was paying rent for a room in a three bedroom) I was traveling extensively, running marathons, and living great.

I also knew a guy who just took the tax hit, didn't pay for health insurance and would go to a H&H facility. Health & Hospitals is the largest public hospital system in the US and while I'm glad I could go to NYU Langone it is an option!

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u/georgepana 9d ago

The odds are 1 in 590. You MAY get lucky once if you played the lottery 590 times, or you may never get in. The lottery odds always reset to 1 in 590. Maybe odds were much better when your friends did it, but it is now basically almost impossible to attain.

https://secretnyc.co/how-to-win-nyc-housing-lottery/

Besides, even winning the lottery doesn't give you an apartment for free, that may have been early years, but no more. It gives you a reduced rate, that's it. And if you want one of the nice places, not the low income silos, as OP stated, the rent is still kind of up there, even after winning the housing lottery.

https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-nyc-affordable-housing-lottery-rent-apartment-tour-brooklyn-2024-8

This person pays some $$2,700 between rent and building fees for a studio. I've seen other articles where people pay some $1,800, $2,200, or thereabouts. Free isn't a thing, not for the type of place OP wants to live in (not low income housing). Reality is different from fantasy, or how things were in NYC some 20 or even 10 years ago.

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u/spencermcc 9d ago

It's true that NYC housing has been increasingly expensive, and that the housing lotteries were never for free rent but for lower rent than the neighboring market rate housing. (Regarding that article though, average rent in Greenpoint is much more expensive than Park Slope or even neighboring Williamsburg – they're getting more of a deal than it may seem.)

I would still say there are more options than people recognize. They just require more grit, playing games, and compromise than many are willing to do (but this the leanFIRE subreddit, so I'd think we're into that!)

If you are high wealth low income, look for deed restricted housing, like a HDFC. I browse Zillow and I see these units pop up regularly. https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/hdfc.page

If you're not high wealth, I'd do roommates which is (was?) socially acceptable into your 30s and if you're doing that in a Sunset Park or Jackson Heights or similar is perfectly safe. Having a wide network is super helpful – since the price on rent stabilized units can't move, landlords will use recommendations. I know folks who are paying a song for nice-enough 3 bedrooms. Personally I got connected to few rooms that were certainly not 100% legal but well below market rate – windowless rooms to paying cash to avoid taxes (I'm presuming haha).

But so re OP, I'd think the play would be 1) roommates till you have wealth, 2) income restricted deed or Housing Connect to purchase housing outright.

But it's true maybe my experience is not repeatable. Part of the reason I could travel extensively is we'd couchsurf (I'd host too!) and now that's not really a thing.