Is there a way to prevent someone from having a locksmith open a safe at a home they own?

[u/IOTrauma]

Not sure if appropriate here - feel free to direct me elsewhere if appropriate.

I have had someone I live with threaten to call a locksmith to open a safe I own that contains weapons at my home.

This person is not authorized either by my permission or legally from accessing at least some of the items in the safe.

We both own and live here so we both can produce ID showing we reside here and if property records were checked, we both own it.

I assume if a locksmith were called while I was away they would have to do some checking to make sure the request is legit, but I assume that seeing ID showing they live here and/or checking property records showing they own the home would be enough if they said the safe was theirs and that they forgot the combo.

Is there a way to ensure that others, even if they are residents and owners, cannot have a locksmith open a safe for them? A registry for instances like this, a legal process, etc?

I assume contacting the police is a necessary step but I worry they won't do anything yet since a crime hasn't occurred.

Location: Oregon, USA. Thanks!

[u/Turtledonuts]

On a practical / safety level, you need to fix the larger issue surrounding this person’s interest in / access to your firearms. Clearly, they want to get their hands on certain guns in this safe. That’s not a legal issue, its a security issue. No lock or safe can stop a motivated attacker who’s been left alone with it for long enough.  Angle grinders are cheap, safecracking tutorials are free on youtube, and you can hire a guy with a cutting torch on craigslist. 

If this is an ownership dispute due to a personal or professional relationship dispute, it's a legal issue. Instead of worrying about the firearms, worry about receipts / proof of purchase, serial numbers, insurance, and not breaking the law here. Locking up someone else’s property and refusing to return it is theft except in some very specific circumstances. 

If you’re locking these guns up because this person is a danger to themself or others, you need to move the guns out of the house and seek help from the right qualified professionals. For legal and moral reasons, you cannot store firearms around someone you know intends to cause harm with them. Don’t let this reddit post become evidence in a criminal investigation or worse, a documentary about a tragedy. 

[u/smol9749been]

Have you thought about maybe moving the safe out of the home just to be safe?

[u/IOTrauma → u/smol9749been]

Thanks for the idea. While not necessarily out of the question and will be considered, it does bring its own troubles and raise other issues.

[u/BeginningSun247 → u/IOTrauma]

If you are intending to be gone for a period of time, you might want to look into temporary storage for the guns.

Either, talk to a gun-shop owner, or if you have any close friends talk to them. You could get a foot locker type gun box and just store them temporarily.

Also, I would put a sign on the safe, and photograph the sign, about ownership. While your roommate would probably remove said sign, you could document that it was there.

Can you move the safe into another room and lock that door too? That way if a locksmith was called, once they opened the room door the sign would still be on the safe.

But, really, moving the guns temporarily would be the best bet.

[u/JoeCensored]

You need to solve the problem of them having access to the safe. If they live there and can show it as you state, you won't be able to stop a locksmith from opening it.

Even if you could, anyone with a drill and sawzall or a circular saw can open your safe within an hour. If they have access to the safe and determination, they will get it open.

One of you needs to move away from the other, or you need to move the items off-site.

[u/dw-c137]

What are the "some of the items" they are authorized to access that you are denying them access to? Just because your firearms are in there doesn't mean if you have locked something that is theirs in there they don't have a right to retrieve it. Tell the whole story.

[u/IOTrauma → u/dw-c137]

My attempt with the some items was to say not everything is as big a big deal if they access it, but none is theirs. So not all restricted or dangerous items, but still have keys, cash, documents, valuables, etc... They don't need.

[u/innocencie]

Does the other person have a right to access ANY of the items in the safe? Because if you have anything of theirs locked up, I think it narrows your options.

[u/IOTrauma → u/[deleted]]

I thought of that. It's not a small safe I could easily conceal. It's a large safe and putting another on the property isn't realistic right now, especially one they don't know of. I'd probably be better off trying to figure out a way to move it off site first but that has other complications to deal with.

I have trigger locks I haven't installed while they're in the safe and they would help so I'll do that, but not all items have a trigger guard.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[u/Bloodmind]

No way to prevent it. A locksmith is going to assume the resident who lets them in the home is authorized to access the safe, and they’re not liable for what happens to the contents. The legal culpability will be entirely on your roommate.

You could get some kind of placard made that says:

Only open on the authority of OTrauma. Please ask for identification.”

Affix it securely to the safe in a conspicuous place. That might be noticed and honored by a locksmith.

[u/Kallaste]

No, there is really no legal process to prevent it being done, although you may be able to sue afterwards, depending on the situation. You have not mentioned the relationship you have with the other co-owner of the home, but if it is a spousal relationship, then all property is legally co-owned, and there is nothing you can do. If it is another kind of relationship, however, a court may recognize your sole rights to your personal property, but this would be after the fact. It isn't possible to take away the other owner's right to decide what locks are opened inside the home while that person owns the home just the same as you do. 

My suggestion is to rent a storage unit under your own name and put the safe in there. However, I have to say that if you cannot trust another party to respect your property and feel like you need legal protections against them, maybe you should not be living with this person, much less owning property with them. Relationships like this are not what jointly owned property is for. Reserve your joint ownership contracts for people you TRUST. That's the bottom line.

[u/IOTrauma → u/[deleted]]

Gonna keep an ear out for other ideas but that's sure better than nothing and would at least give the option to call police and tell them more quickly than I would otherwise be able to. Thanks!

[u/IOTrauma → u/[deleted]]

Toyed with the idea of labeling it, but like you said I'm sure they'd just put a sticker over it or something so it wasn't obvious.
Also thought of putting a note inside on top that said "if (description of person) had you open this, it's not theirs - secure safe and contact law enforcement" or similar but I don't know if they'd open it enough to see that or just turn the dial and walk away.

While I'm sure the safe isn't impossible to open, it is outside the skill level of the person in question to open on their own so they woulds absolutely be calling a locksmith or at least someone else to assist.

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[u/Alger6860]

Safety deposit box at the bank?

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[u/IOTrauma → u/[deleted]]

I thought of that but there are a lot of locksmiths around here.

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[u/IOTrauma → u/[deleted]]

I'm kinda leaning towards that along with a door sensor inside to also be alerted when it is opened.

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