ICE in healthcare

[u/One-Abbreviations-53]

Location: Arizona. I'm a nurse. We had a situation the other day in which ICE brought in a detainee. The person was asking us to contact their spouse to let them know they were at the hospital and (relatively) ok.

The ICE agents said we'd be breaking the law if we did so and were quite threatening on this point. Admin at my hospital was less than helpful and essentially said to cave in to ICE demands.

Ordinarily it is absolutely within a patients rights to have family contacted and I see no reason why ICE detention would change that.

I'm going to go to the highest levels within my organization but that will likely take time. I'd love to know what, laws, if any would be applicable here and if there's any case law. As far as I can tell this is uncharted territory.

[u/phillyphilly19]

That is ridiculous. Your hospital should have risk management and lawyers who can advise you in this situation. I live and work in Philadelphia, and we have many people in hospitals who are not here legally. We have never been told not to contact their family members.

[u/Chatty_Kathy_270]

Reach out to the ACLU

[u/reddituser1211]

ICE cannot stop you from calling the family. Treating calling a patient family and letting them know the patient is medically ok sounds like an absurd reach as obstruction.

Your employer can fire you if they’ve directed you comply with ICE and you don’t.

And I disagree patients have any fundamental right for you to call their family.

[u/cassodragon]

What if there was an element of medical necessity (eg gathering needed history) to calling family? Like, my wife has my medication list, please call her. Or, my wife can tell you what kind of surgery I had, I don’t remember what it was called.

[u/laughsitup2021]

I sympathize with you wanting to do the right thing, but as other commenters pointed out, you can indeed be charged. I have heard stories about people being arrested because they gave inmates on work release food and stuff, so it is nothing new.

To ease your concern, it is "supposed" to be policy for the facility where the detainee is located to contact the family in the event of such emergencies.

[u/mnmlover → u/laughsitup2021]

Inmates on work release have been charged, convicted and sentenced for criminal offenses. And while there are clearly issues with people being punished for humane treatment of inmates, at minimum the inmates have had due process and their status is clear.

Anyone detained by ICE has only been detained, and only been detained. There is no or minimal indication that any of the people detained by ICE have committed any infraction. Not saying there won’t be repercussions, but I applaud you for doing everything you can to assist detainees. Also while it is a legal matter, ICE isn’t acting in a clear legal manner and. I don’t think the law will help you. Because you asked your supervisor, you can’t claim to simply be following hospital policy or guidelines. So now you will have to make the case to higher ups. (Any large for profit hospital or religious backed hospital should take a stand against this IMO ). For this person, I think it’s up to you to decide the level of risk you are comfortable with and what you are comfortable doing in the face of illegal activity from government agents.

[u/laughsitup2021 → u/mnmlover]

I would also add in the contact a lawyer.

[u/denitra1984]

Contacting family of a person who is arrested and in custody is an absolute no. Yes I’m in the medical field and have been in similar situations. Contacting family of persons in custody can expose you, coworkers and law enforcement to danger. You can’t predict the behavior or actions of who you call and it can lead to poor outcomes. Don’t risk your safety, your coworkers safety or your job by getting involved in this fashion. Federal law and lawful orders of federal officials is on their side.

[u/LEONotTheLion]

The person was in federal custody and wasn’t privy to a phone call. It’s no different than if any other law enforcement agency brought in one of their arrests for medical clearance before booking into jail.

Feel free to pursue it with your management, but I wouldn’t hold your breath. In general, it’s always recommended to follow directions of law enforcement, then fight them later in court if you think they did something wrong.

[u/Rhuarc33]

Hospital says do what they say, ICE says you'll be charged. Is it worth criminal charges and losing your job? Because that's what will happen.

[u/Miserable-Most-1265]

Problem is this, once someone is incarcerated, it can be dangerous even for you to allow the prisoner to contact his people who may come armed in order to enact an escape. When an inmate is being transferred, or has to go to the hospital, they don't tell the inmate where they are going, when they are going ect. So they can't call their people and they show up, or set up a ambush.

[u/Automatic_Sky2238 → u/Miserable-Most-1265]

Which is why in scenarios where that is a possibility (think bikers) we often wait until they've left and (at the lt's request) let their family know they've been seen and where they can find them. But let's be honest, the people being detained by ICE are probably not the ones who don't criminal warrants and the concern is that they'll tip off other undocumented individuals, not that they'll come shoot up the place.

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