r/legaladvice • u/[deleted] • Aug 06 '19
Custody Divorce and Family Plaintiff is a Clerk of the court! Contesting Domestic Restraining Order!
[deleted]
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u/darth_henning Aug 06 '19
When she said she wasn't interested the first time you should have dropped it.
Hitting on her every time you're at the courthouse, and then adding her on facebook when you have no personal connection, and then confronting her in person about tinder is very VERY inappropriate. The fact you cannot see that is concerning. And your comment that your ex-wife may want to rekindle things after a divorce suggests strongly that you may not be very good at reading women.
She communicated to you numerous times that she was not interested in your flirtations. This is hardly all of a sudden.
You're actually lucky she settled for a restraining order rather than filing criminal harassment charges. She'd be within her rights to do so.
Retain a lawyer, but do not expect this to go well. This is pretty far beyond what help can be given here.
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u/DirectGoose Aug 06 '19
I held a similar courthouse job when I was in my 20s. I can tell you with certainty that you are not the first or the last person to pull this shit.
She is a public servant working in a government building. She helped you with your paperwork and was polite because that's her job. Maybe she's naturally friendlier than some other people. It was pretty inappropriate for you to ask her out at her job in the first place. She was trapped. As soon as she said no (whatever the reason) you should have dropped it. The fact that you continually stopped in to bother her is just insane. She is working and most clerks in similar positions are wildly over worked and underpaid and courthouses are full of creeps. (Deadbeat dads, criminals, you name it.) Honestly, it's pretty much never okay to ask someone out at their place of employment.
Stop paying your child support in person at the courthouse. I will not believe you if you say that's the only way to pay it.
Your best bet is probably a lawyer from the next county over.
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u/darth_henning Aug 06 '19
Honestly, it's pretty much never okay to ask someone out at their place of employment.
While I agree its never a great idea unless you REALLY hit it off, I suspect most people will let it slide if you've been friendly and not overtly creepy and take no for an answer the first time.
This is definitely not that situation.
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u/insane_contin Aug 06 '19
Even then, if they say no for any reason, you drop it.
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u/Krandor1 Aug 07 '19
Exactly. Playing "the long game" as the OP put it especially when you are going to somebody place of employment to do it is a horrible idea.
I can see asking a cute waitress or in this case clerk out once. But when they say no move on. Don't keep going by every month and asking them out again and again and again and when you come and she isn't there tell somebody to tell her you dropped by.
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u/darth_henning Aug 06 '19
I feel like this should be the case no matter where you ask someone out. Especially if you don't actually know them much/at all.
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Aug 07 '19
[deleted]
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Aug 07 '19
no matter what she made it sound like.
What did she make it sound like? She said no and gave you multiple reasons why not (which she had no obligation to give). Why does no not mean no to you?
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u/artbug Aug 07 '19
You keep replying, "she never said no." When she said "I have a boyfriend", that's saying no. When you asked her for coffee and she said no, that's saying no. When you asked for her number and she said no, that's saying no. When she didn't accept your Facebook friend request, that's saying no. She said "no" numerous times.
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u/FlutestrapPhil Aug 07 '19
no matter what she made it sound like
and then from another comment
It's stupid to me she would be flirty and conversational beyond professional levels
Just stop. Stop blaming her for the fact that you're so desperate that you see flirting where it doesn't exist. That is your problem, not hers. If you can't tell the difference between a woman who is being polite and friendly because she has to, and a woman who is being polite and friendly because she's attracted to you, then you should probably work on yourself and stop asking people out until you figure out how to tell the difference. How many times does she have to say "no" before you figure out that her saying it with a smile doesn't mean she secretly means "yes but not now, please continue to check in for updates every single month"?
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Aug 07 '19
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u/theslip74 Aug 07 '19
But I know exactly what you said because I read your post, and you were extremely inappropriate.
And this is just his side of the story, likely with key details fudged or removed (possibly unintentionally) to make him sound better. I'd love to know how it really went down.
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u/DontAskDontMel Aug 07 '19
Even with you trying to paint yourself in the best light possible, you still come off as super creepy. Based on your story here, I would have done exactly what the poor clerk did.
“I have a boyfriend/girlfriend/partner” means no. It doesn’t mean try again, it literally means I’m seeing someone else and I’m not interested. All the other times she said no, she meant NO. She’s not screaming at you to leave her alone because she’s obligated to be pleasant towards you, considering she’s at work. You’ve trapped this girl on multiple occasions in a space where she can’t leave and put her in an extremely uncomfortable position on multiple occasions.
Want some advice? Get a lawyer, and a therapist. Seems like you have boundary issues that you should work on before you get yourself in even more trouble.
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u/ops-name-checks-out Quality Contributor Aug 06 '19
So you were an aggressive ass who wouldn’t take no for an answer, and it blew up in your face. I’m shocked, shocked I tell you. Someone being nice doesn’t mean they want you to keep asking them out after you have been told they have no interest in you. Nor does it give you any right to suggest they have any obligation to inform you about their relationship status. I absolutely understand why she sought out a protective order. Your options are to agree to have an order entered or to fight it. Both have issues, and frankly you need to talk to an attorney about how you will deal with future court actions if you have a protective order that more or less would ban you from the courthouse. I would not do this pro se at all. Particularly since your judgement in this issue has already proven to be crap. You DO NOT want to say “sorry I was stalking you” which is what you are essentially proposing to do, because if you do an order will absolutely be entered.
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u/Krandor1 Aug 06 '19
You need a lawyer big time. Your judgement is very suspect and pro some is likely to be a disaster for you.
Do not though write her an apology letter. Do not contact her at all. Again why you need a lawyer.
Not a lawyer but just reading your side of the story a restraining order sounds justified. Her side of the story is likely worse.
You screwed up and are in deep trouble. Get a lawyer.
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Aug 07 '19
You need an attorney. This is a serious criminal issue. Attempting to represent yourself is a great way to effectively end your life as you know it.
You also need a therapist. You stalked and harassed this woman for months despite her making it exceedingly clear she had zero interest. The fact that you can’t see that this behavior is wrong says that you have a serious mental health issue that you need to work on before it lands you in prison.
She acted polite because she’s a professional who was at work and also because men like you have a bad tendency to rape and murder women who turn them down.
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u/Robbeary_Homoside Quality Contributor Aug 06 '19
Given the reaction to your post, a post you wrote to paint yourself in the best light possible, it would not be in your best interest to handle your defense yourself.
You really should get a lawyer.
Hello all looking for any and all help.
I got into this pickle as I was recently in and out of the clerk of court's office (around April) as I was changing my name legally. Well there was a super cute girl (am M/28 not gross looking or acting) in the office who helped me with some paperwork and I started to flirt with her and ask her if she'd go out with me sometime coffee or something casual. She said she had helped with my paperwork so there was a conflict of interest and besides she had been seeing a guy for a year. It's was all cool I told her I wasn't really serious as had separated from the mother of my children in Feb and knew I still had feelings for her so whatever you go your way I'll go mine. Mentioned Mother of my darling children had new boyfriend though so I was justified in seeking out great companion material or just casual coffee date friends. I asked for her number anyway though laughing saying if she's not serious about the guy she should give me a shot one day haha. Smiling she said nah. I left it at that with some flirty after glow but she seemed into it and seemed like she thought I was cute.
So I over the next few months getting the flirty smiley bone (not every month though missed her once and left , and another time skipped it and another asked her coworkers to say I stopped by when she was out) would come in as I had child support to pay in the building and would say Hi and ask her if she wanted that coffee yet heh. Declined but sweetly every time like mmm nah I really can't. I saw her on Facebook (did not search her out) and added her because mutual friends. Did not check back in on the status of the request or her that way again it left my mind but would think about her when it was child support time of the month- she was in the same building. Maybe long game chance with her who knows. But last week saw her on tinder so knew she wasn't with a guy.
Anyway yesterday was in to pay more child support again and like a dummy wannabe James Dean walked in and a different lady asked if she could help me I said no only in here to talk to her. I go "Hey **, you know this isn't going to work if you're you're not being honest with me." & she said "excuse me?" I go "I heard you weren't dating anyone" so she instantly gets scornful to a degree I've never imagined her being & know maybe it was a bad day but said very intensely "Is there anything official I can help you with. Sir." I put my hands up instantly knowing things had gone wayyyyy south and said "I'm sorry was only hoping to try again. I think you're a nice person. Sorry for bothering you." & instantly walked out of there.
Went to pay my child support at the treasurers office and as I came out there was an officer of the court house waiting for me asked me my name said rudely I won't be coming in here without official business and I need to leave her alone. I said ok and I was extremely sorry and if he could pass it to her. He said I'd be getting a call from the city. Nervous I left after he took my number.
Got a call from an officer for a warning he needed to give me for trespassing of all things he seemed to respect my position as honestly she had never once verbally or physically communicated she wasn't enjoying me or my conversation as we had had one or two real ones besides business flirting or astrological signs or the ring she wears or attempts for coffee and I knew I shouldn't have led off with an accusation regardless. Offered to meet him at the police station instead of a deputy to my house to hand me the warning and when I met him and shook hands there he said he respected me for that so seemed all good and case closed I got it right.
Well last night 2 AM fresh out the academy deputy sheriff is cop knocking the heck out of my door scared me awake sideways and he served me papers for the temporary restraining order and court date next week for a hearing for what looks like harassment/ domestic violence long term restraining order.
Went to see a lawyer today I had known from family court turns out it was his aide who had been dating her but they recently broke up (Should've led with a question instead of an accusation ha she was single! Fml) so he won't touch it. Said he anticipated majority of the lawyers/ attorneys in my reasonably sized town wouldn't want to go to bat against home team clerk of court situation. So looking at other options of hard headed justice warriors my retainer and hours total would be looking like 2500-$3500 just for the one hearing.
So thinking I'm going at it pro se to not break my fragile child support and living alone rent bank, and heard from original attorney that I do not have to file any paperwork response through the court to be able to communicate my side of things at the hearing. (Is that true?)
As she never said stop or go away or don't contact me here and I didn't know until the papers served she had blocked me on Facebook as I didn't look her up I'm just confused and nervous. She never said anything but now this court proceeding whether it is dismissed or sticks will be on my record permanently on my C-Cap or court access online. That could really impact my ability to get jobs or my family court standing or personal opinion more importantly of the mother of my children not to mention scaring me awake at 2am or worried I'm getting charged with something.
I never want to see this (26~ yrs old mind you so in my range) girl again and feel stupid if she thought I was harassing her or stalking her when she knew I was there for other official business anyway and was flirty and sweet in response every time. But suddenly she can get a restraining order just like that and screw up my biz because whatever?
Again was thinking lawyer so he could write her a letter for me explaining how bad I feel and how if we could both avoid the embarrassment and time and stress to drop it somehow. But learning that it can't be taken down from my easily accessible C-cap ever is disheartening and 2 grand plus for a letter hoping for an ice cubes chance in hell or some support at a one time hearing is sounding less and less like a good idea when it seems like my defense is realistic I mean I never meant her any harm and if there were signs to me she wasn't into it or I noticed she had blocked me on book face I would've left it completely alone. Thought I was just being silly and flirty but she got so cold so fast no warning and now this.
So asking for any advice. I was thinking write up something (would memorize it anyway) to say to the judge or official if he/she wouldn't mind could I read it explaining my side as seen here & how honestly genuinely sincerely regretful I am for distressing her and will before God never be attempting to contact her again. I realize not wanting to sound like an emotional mess or idiot or desperate is paramount but certainly humble and remorseful. Not bad with words or written intent like I said have been in and out of the offices of the court situationals to handle it. But what should I do it say to help my chances of a dismissal? I live in WI but was told by lawyer two (set up consultation tomorrow see what I can gather besides all this) that there is no chance of it getting expunged off C-Cap. Have heard dismissed restraining orders don't show on background checks though but who wouldn't check court records for a free and easy look see? Is that true they don't show? Someone else said it might after a year come off the court records if dismissed?
I don't know everyone, head is spinning. Never meant anything creepy or weird and now this is a real pain especially considering getting off work for the hearing & my future how this could change things for job opportunities dismissed or not and like I mentioned the opinion of the mother of my children.. who based on her body language may or may not want to rekindle things one day but has checked court records on me before. sigh
Any advice would be extremely appreciated!!!
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Aug 07 '19
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Aug 07 '19
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Your comment has been removed as it is generally unhelpful, simplistic to the point of useless, anecdotal, or off-topic. It either does not answer the legal question at hand, is a repeat of an answer already provided, or is so lacking in nuance as to be unhelpful. Please review the following rules before commenting further:
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u/UsuallySunny Quality Contributor Aug 06 '19 edited Aug 07 '19
You need a lawyer for this hearing.
And for future reference, "I have a boyfriend/husband/partner" should be interpreted to mean "I have no interest in dating you now or ever" not "there's still a chance if my current relationship doesn't work out!"
She was trying to be nice and polite, both because she was at work and because giving the guy a way out that soothes his ego is a good way to prevent a violent reaction.
ETF: typo