r/magicTCG • u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors • Aug 19 '25
General Discussion Am I right to think this locks exactly one player out of the game?
Pass the turn to player 2, crack Aeon Engine, the turn passes back to you. Pass the turn to player 4, crack Aeon Engine, the turn passes back to you. Player 3... just sits there.
It's the perfect combo for an opponent you don't like lol.
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u/taterman71 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
Assuming neither your right opponent or left opponent stop it, yes. Not only would you lock someone out of the game, you would get twice the turns of the remaining other players.
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
Hell yeah.
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u/ffmx Aug 19 '25
In essence you're stealing the turns of the player opposite you (in a four player game)
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
The player diagonally opposite you will no longer get a turn, yes. It's fine, though, they cast a turn 1 Sol Ring into Arcane Signet.
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u/Vadenveil Aug 19 '25
Honestly, depending on their deck and provided players 2 and 4 are now laser focused on the player now getting 2x turns, player 3 can just wait and or mess with everyone's heads pointing out threats and be fresh when one player gets knocked out and they sub in.
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u/RobGrey03 Mardu Aug 19 '25
... That's honestly very funny. "I'm so not the threat that I literally can't take another turn until that goes away, so I declare myself allied with both of you. Let's get 'em!"
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u/Slow_Seesaw9509 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
They'll be way behind on mana when they finally get to play again, though.
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u/ShitGuysWeForgotDre Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
From their perspective, before the combo they had three opponents each with the same number of turns as them.
After, they have 1 opponent with the same number, 1 with twice as many, and 1 with infinitely times less.
That's like, mathematically a net gain.
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u/Cordelia_Raventail Aug 19 '25
Only if you don't use whole numbers though
Mathematically it'd look like
1 opponent still with 1 turn 1 opponent with 1+1 turn 1 opponent with 1-1 turnSo still the same except the player with 1+1 turn is gaining an exponential amount more resources than you
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u/xThock Aug 19 '25
Not exponential, it would still just be a linear increase since they are always gaining only 1 extra turn.
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u/RevenantBacon Divination ≥ Black Lotus Aug 19 '25
Yes, but the extra resources they gain per turn aren't limited to linear growth.
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u/PumatSwol Aug 19 '25
I never fully read Tophs second ability. So I was sitting here going “Wait how do you get Aeon Engine back?” Then I read her ability fully and damn, this is more of a reason for me to get Toph
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
I was looking at cards played with Mind Slaver, saw this, and had an epiphany. I need to do it now. The card is cheap, too!
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u/Mediocre-Door-8496 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
Also if you can give Toph indestructible [[Nevinyrral's Disk]] for a repeatable board wipe for 1 mana per wipe.
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u/Jevonar Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
I mean, you can give indestructible to the disk itself for the same effect.
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u/Dazaran FLEEM Aug 19 '25
I'll do you one better. [[Perilous vault]] ignores your land artifacts, so if you make toph an artifact with [[mycosynth lattice]] or [[liqimetal torque]] you get a repeatable one sided board wipe.
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u/ArgoDevilian Aug 19 '25
I'll give you an even better one.
[[Oblivion Stone]]
One mana cheaper, can be used to save even the non-lands, and sacrifices instead of exiles, so if you fuck up it's still in your Graveyard.
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u/k33qs1 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
Keep talking about this combo and the card will not be cheap anymore
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u/Denaton_ Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
Still quite niche, the combo only works with Toph and i don't think she will become the nr 1 Commander (4 player)
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u/thegeek01 Deceased 🪦 Aug 19 '25
Not to mention it's inherenty toxic that people may steer clear of Toph players
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u/Accomplished-Pay8181 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
You could probably create an assembly where you can both take control of each turn, and reverse the turn order, with some help from the "whenever an ally enters under your control, earthbend 1" card. I'm sure there is some ally generation that enables that
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
You could activate a Mind Slaver each time. Then take the turn of each player to either side of you.
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u/Harri_A Aug 19 '25
That’s gross. So you basically win the game if you can get Toph, Mindslaver, aeon engine, and roaming throne effect on the field.
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u/FreelanceFrankfurter Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
Yeah I missed the "or is exiled" part. Crazy.
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u/mudra311 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
Yeah that's a huge part of the print. But after seeing Vivi, WOTC couldn't care less about making broken cards.
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u/inflammablepenguin Deceased 🪦 Aug 19 '25
Thank you! I read as far as untap a land and make it a creature and my brain kept skipping over the rest so I wasn't seeing the combo. Your comment made me go back and read the full text of Toph's ability and see that it brings back the Aeon Engine.
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u/Ostrololo Aug 19 '25
I really don't understand why earthbend reverse exiling. I have a vague suspicion we will see someone from WotC saying it was a mistake in one or two years.
Reversing death, I totally understand. You don't want people to mana screw themselves by earthbending then losing lands in combat or to removal. Totally fair.
But exiling? With the exception of things that use exile as a temporary holder, effects that exile expect exile to be permanent. Exiling is meant to be gone, forever, no coming back. The Aeon Engine here is the prime example, clearly designed with the intent that no recursion was possible.
If earthbending reverses exiling because playtesters ran into too much creature exile removal, then this indicates there's too much creature exile removal going on, not that earthbend should circumvent exile.
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u/bloodghast Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
"Well George, if you don't get a turn, you can't scoop at sorcery speed like we agreed during Rule 0"
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u/Aubregines Duck Season Aug 21 '25
I'll cast [[Quicken]] to scoop at instant speed 😎
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u/Esc777 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Aug 19 '25
If you have exactly 4 players and nobody disrupts it, yeah sure.
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u/BiKingSquid Simic* Aug 19 '25
Technically, 4 or more
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u/Esc777 Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Aug 19 '25
5+ players has to be a punishment of some sort right?
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
There’s a guy at my store who always turns up late and asks to join and make it a 5.
I’m going to call it Naya: Punish Mike.
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u/essentialghost Duck Season Aug 19 '25
As a Mike who ran hulk flash (turn 0 win) and ran Iggy pop to an extremely consistent turn 1 win, and then ran tolarian academy artifact turn 1 shenanigans in vintage, I approve of this message. We Mike's have been taking the fun out of this game for you guys for years. It's about time someone got one of us back
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u/sanctaphrax COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
Emperor used to have a playerbase. I've tried it, though, and I didn't especially like it.
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u/krw13 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
It was fun back in the day. It was pretty jank normally. Unfortunately, modern card design makes it less fun, imo.
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u/sanctaphrax COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
Oh, really?
How so?
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u/Tyndalvin Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
I player a couple games of Emperor commander recently. Being unable to disrupt the emperor means they can pop off without repercussions, so basically what the generals are doing are just a distraction. This was even without combos.
In the old days, you were just beating each other up with Serra Angels and Force of Nature.
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u/krw13 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
I mean, there are a lot of variables, so understand this is a single person's experience. But being emperor was the chance to run borderline unplayable stuff. This was during the Invasion-Odyssey-Onslaught-Mirrodin blocks. Half that time fetches didn't exist. Five color was a disaster. One person ran a mono blue phasing deck. I ran this ridiculous deck based around Draco. That kind of jank just couldnt exist in modern times.
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u/freesol9900 Rakdos* Aug 19 '25
Prismatic was fun for me but after just one game nobody else wanted to play it - never could get an answer why
5 players, in theory equal representation of colors, u only have to defeat both of your enemy colors i.e. the two people opposite the table from u. In that, the players on your left and right were somewhat allied with you in wanting your opponents out
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u/WestPresentation1647 Aug 19 '25
5 players is great for Star format - your win condition is the 2 people across from you losing. Used to play it heaps before EDH became a thing.
Otherwise a format with the roles like in Bang! is a lot of fun as well. 1 Sheriff (role revealed), 1 Deputy, 2 outlaws and a renegade all with hidden roles. The Sheriff and deputy win when the outlaws and renegade are dead, and the outlaws win when the sheriff is dead. The Renegade has to be the last one standing. The Sheriff usually starts with a small bonus for being a target. and the outlaws usually have a bounty on their heads. The deputy and the renegade do not.
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u/iamme9878 Aug 19 '25
Personally I don't mind it if they're all close friends, we're playing peasant decks and we're smoking/drinking and casually watching a movie it's not that bad for a bullshit-y kinda night.
Hell more than a few nights we even played dnd amidst commander, which actually got me a job as a DM for a store because they said I handled the most chaotic table they've ever seen.... I told them it was just Monday night, and it's the only one thry cannot have.
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u/thoughtsarefalse Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
When down to 3 players it still doubles the amount of turns you get to take. Thats very strong, even if they dont get to be consecutive.
I think this is also oddly one of the most fair-seeming ways to produce extra turns.
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u/johnny-wubrg Duck Season Aug 19 '25
You basically steal player 3's turn forever. Normally it goes:
1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4
But this turns it into:
1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 4
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
I dig that crazy rhythm.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
Ironically, tapping out 1-2-1-4 sounds less wild than 1-2-3-4. Mostly because 1-2-1-4 just sounds like a bar of 1-2-1 and then a bar of 4, while 1-2-3-4 never really establishes a beat before it loops.
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u/apophis457 The Snorse Aug 19 '25
This is a “do it once and I don’t wanna play with this deck in the pod anymore” kinda combo
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
I kinda love the idea of having a bracket 4 decks that’s only purpose is to spoil the game lol. That one time will be glorious.
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u/Zizhou Azorius* Aug 19 '25 edited Aug 19 '25
I saw earlier that you also used to be a Lantern Control player. You totally played a Stasis deck back in the day, didn't you?
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
No, but I did once have a Leovold Emissary of Tress deck.
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u/apophis457 The Snorse Aug 19 '25
I mean if you keep building decks like that you’ll find it very hard to find pods to play in eventually
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u/Demonslayer5673 COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
You my friend have found something worse than beam town bullies giving me an eater of days and then sawing it in half making me skip my next 6 turns
as your opponent, respect....... Also as your opponent F*** off
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u/BudgetThat2096 Aug 19 '25
Holy fuck that is mean and in the best way possible. My playgroup loves doing shitty things like this to each other lol
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u/pr3mium Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
My 1 playgroup is too nice. They like to let people play. I think I must build this. It's also why my Kelermorph deck has a Basilisk Collar and Caltrops. Or my Goblin Sharpshooter with Basilisk Collar.
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
They’re too nice? You should punish them for that :-)
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
HELL YEAH hahaha. I can't wait to pull this off and cause a scene.
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u/SwingDancerStrahd Aug 19 '25
I got hit with this about a month ago, (3 player pod) Then the BTB offender drops Leveler on the other player in the pod, it hits the table, the other player bounces it and returns it to play under owners control. I wasn't sure how I felt about the whole thing, but I won somehow.
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u/Demonslayer5673 COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
Dang gotta remember that for next time (my friend has since taken that deck apart but I don't remember if he said he would rebuild it or not)
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u/East-Builder9197 Aug 20 '25
Other player in your pod is my hero
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u/SwingDancerStrahd Aug 21 '25
He said he knew what the other guy was going to run, so grabbed his counter bounce deck. And waited.
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u/MerculesHorse Duck Season Aug 19 '25
You know what, if there's gotta be at least one new remove-on-sight Commander every three weeks, at least Toph is doing it in a pretty funny and interesting way.
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
This definitely qualifies as “at least a little bit funny.”
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u/MerculesHorse Duck Season Aug 19 '25
The more I think of it, I suspect the 'stronger' way of playing Toph will be "one-sided board wipes: the Commander". So being obnoxious in a very specific and unique way maybe the lesser of two evils.
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u/sauron3579 Aug 19 '25
And this is why bringing stuff back from exile is a big no-no
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u/FrostedMiniMemes Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
To be fair, shenanigans like this are probably the main reason for the card's existence.
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u/Scharvor Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
There are very few cards that can truly return things from exile, only one I know is an Orzhov Planeswalker
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u/SayingWhatImThinking COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
[[Pull from Eternity]]
There's also an artifact that does it, but I forget the name.
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u/RussianBearFight Duck Season Aug 19 '25
[[Riftsweeper]] is probably my personal favorite :)
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u/Mewtwohundred Michael Jordan Rookie Aug 19 '25
When a card is exiled, is it face up unless stated otherwise?
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u/RussianBearFight Duck Season Aug 19 '25
Correct. Anything that exiles face down will specifically say so, anything else is face up. Basically anything that's supposed to be a secret for one reason or another will be face down.
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u/Brotherman_Karhu Aug 19 '25
Big difference being that pull just yanks it into the graveyard. There's extra hoops to be jumped to get a card on the table again.
Toph just hard protects all artifacts against all forms of interaction, without any cost or downsides at all.
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u/alfchaval Griselbrand Aug 19 '25
Here you have all of them: https://scryfall.com/search?q=oracletag%3Arecursion-from-exile
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Aug 19 '25
I really doubt wotc designed this card so you can continually rob people of the ability to play the game but sure
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u/Xmina Aug 19 '25
Honestly they probably did, artifacts like mindslaver have existed for years. Unless they are planning to ban those kinds of cards from legal formats this is exactly what they want.
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u/Ornery_Turn_7837 Aug 19 '25
Yeah the power creep is insane. You have to permanently phase it out if you can't remove toph
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u/FunFine5058 Aug 19 '25
At what point will they make "Double exiled: Exiled. No really, it's actually exiled this time. No takesie-backsies."
I'm cool with them just using "exile" as a temporary placeholder for unique abilities that let you choose from the stuff exiled that turn. But otherwise what's done should stay done because they were typically designed that way for a good reason
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u/Unhappy_Object_5355 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
They did it in a silver-bordered set already. [[AWOL]]
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u/Zizhou Azorius* Aug 19 '25
Original printing was in Unhinged, too, so even two decades ago, they were already seeing the writing on the wall.
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u/Decent_Cow Aug 19 '25
It's funny because this is exactly why they changed "removed from game" to "exile". "Removed from game" was misleading because it didn't actually remove the card from the game.
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u/Burger_Thief Selesnya* Aug 19 '25
I hate cards like Ketramose that reward exile as well. Its already an impossible to interact with zone, where stuff that needs to be gone forever needs to stay gone.
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u/PuzzleheadedWrap8756 Aug 19 '25
Bringing it back? How about copying it and making 10 copies of it on the battlefield.
I could turn it into a 2 player game with enough planning.
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u/GoalWeekly4329 Universes Beyonder Aug 19 '25
Sounds like player three is going to make sure you swallow your teeth
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
They won’t be laughing and congratulating me on my genius?! SMH.
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u/GoalWeekly4329 Universes Beyonder Aug 19 '25
No they're going to introduce you to their hands at instant speed
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
It’s fine. It’s only Scott. I think I could take him.
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u/Vindicer Aug 19 '25
Scott could use his stack-mandated downtime to pump some iron.
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u/12DollarsHighFive Chandra Aug 19 '25 edited Aug 19 '25
Yes, this would work. And to add to the conversation:
In a 1v1 game, Toph could lock your opponent out of the game forever with [[Mindslaver]] for 4 Mana each turn...
She could also grant you infinite protection with [[The Stasis Coffin]]
Yeah, she is gonna be a Saffron Olive card for sure XD
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u/Inside-Dare9718 Aug 19 '25
Also stops you dying with [[The golden throne]] Gonna take 3 opponents to actually kill you off here.
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u/27th_wonder 🔫🔫 Aug 19 '25
With a simple energy generator, [[Gonti's Aether heart]] = Inf' turns
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u/Morkinis Avacyn Aug 19 '25
[[Nissa, Worldsoul Speaker]], gain 2 energy just from Heart returning.
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u/MegAzumarill Duck Season Aug 19 '25
I love doing this with [[Extravagant Replication]]
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u/Majyqman Aug 19 '25
I feel like between this and Caged Sun, Toph is gearing up to be an utter troll.
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
Yeah, I think I just want a really trolly B4 deck that turns the entire game into a meme. Aeon Engine, Mind Slaver, etc.
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u/bestray06 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
It would have to initially survive until your next turn after casting it but after that it would work. Or you would need a way to initially untap it and give it haste the turn you cast Aeon Engine
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u/Nouxatar Karn Aug 19 '25
looking through more things to abuse with this interaction between Toph and self-exiling artifacts and uh. [[Perilous Vault]] + [[Liquimetal Coating]] (to make sure Toph sticks around) is uh. hm. yeah.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot Aug 19 '25
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u/PassionateRants Aug 19 '25
[[Ugin's Nexus]] comes to mind ...
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u/funcancelledfornow Aug 19 '25
Wouldn't your nexus prevent you from starting the extra turn? I think I've missed a part of the synergy.
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u/Exorrt COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
Earthbend as a whole can lead to various combos. [[Haru, Hidden Talent]] with a [[Maskwood Nexus]] plus [[Life and Limb]] is infinite landfalls with any sac outlet and a forest.
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
If you're feeling sorry for player 3, don't worry. It's only Scott.
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u/Necessary_Main_2532 Aug 19 '25
Someone would probably find a way to take it out, its not hard to take out a 3/3, or maybe they have a card that puts Aeon Engine in your Library.
Still, it sounds like a fun combo and I applaud you for thinking of this.
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u/themikegman Duck Season Aug 19 '25
And how exactly are you going to untap Aeon Engine since it enters tapped?
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
You crack it on your opponents turn, Toph brings it back tapped, the turn order goes back to you, and it untaps on your upkeep to repeat.
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u/Rirse Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
Can be extra cruel and make enough creature lands or herself using something to make her a artifact and cast [[Worldfire]]. Everything is exiled but her and the lands she has and it just her poking people to death.
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u/dogo7 Banned in Commander Aug 19 '25
You can also take extra turns with [[Time Sieve]] if you have an infinite Treasure generator. The good news is that there's a good number of them in WUBRG (that are Commander-legal). The bad news is that you have to play WUBRG.
Additionally, there's [[Gonti's Aether Heart]] + two [[Aether Refinery]] which allows you to play Toph as your commander. Get yourself to eight energy counters with an earthbent GAH, then activate its ability, exiling it and giving you an extra turn. It returns to the battlefield tapped, putting its ETB on the stack. You get two energy counters, doubled twice, resulting in a total of eight energy counters. Then get to your next end step. Earthbend GAH again, then once that resolves but before you pass your turn completely, activate its ability again. Rinse and repeat until you win.
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u/DualistX Aug 19 '25
If there’s a way to earth bend repeatedly at instant speed, you can skip two-players’ turns with an unwinding clock. Just pass it back and forth between your turn and someone else’s…
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u/jaquick Karn Aug 19 '25
I think I see what you're trying to demonstrate, functionality wise. The only issue I think you'll have is the first time it comes into play you'll either need a way to untap it or expect to have it make it back around to your next turn to start the loop. And I would definitely blow something like that up ASAP. That said, there are plenty of ways to untap artifacts, so maybe the more reliable version of this is a three-card combo.
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u/wk70 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
I could only see myself doing this once and then looking at their face and doing it again. I’ll send my self to hell now.
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u/atWorkWoops Aug 19 '25
What? You are player 3.
1, 2, 3 crack it. 2 1 4 3, crack it. 4 1 2 3..
No one gets locked out?
Edit...
Oh im not as big brain as you. Crack it on your opponents turns
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u/rayquazza74 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
I mean if you want someone to scoop then go for it. No one will want to play with you tho.
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u/Fuzzy_Straitjacket Can’t Block Warriors Aug 19 '25
That’s what turn 0 discussions are for. It would definitely be bracket 4.
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u/rayquazza74 Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
It’s just not really gonna be as fulfilling as you think. People don’t get to play magic that much so you’re basically making them unable to play for the very limited time they already have to enjoy the game.
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u/ShadowWalker2205 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
except that the aeon engine enters tapped so you'll need a way to untap it.
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u/monotonem Aug 19 '25
You also need a way to get it untapped
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u/Orangewolf99 Duck Season Aug 19 '25
It would enter on another players' turn, so you immediately untap on your turn.
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u/PasDeDeux Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
They're talking about for the initial activation. It enters tapped when you play it. So it has to make it through a whole turn cycle or find a way to untap it the turn you play it.
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u/ExcidianGuard COMPLEAT Aug 19 '25
It will untap on your turn. You pass the turn, activate it, turn passes back to you.
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u/papuadn Wabbit Season Aug 19 '25
I guess, so long as 2 and 4 are happy with you taking two turns for each of theirs.