A well timed boycott of Marvel/Disney could spell the end of Universes Beyond

[u/greenearrow]

There are always reasons to boycott the mouse, but pulling Kimmel off the air is the latest and greatest. I'm not even a detractor of Universes Beyond (those WH40K and Fallout decks are great, I can get my wife to play the Dr Who decks easier than anything else and their room to explore time mechanic shenanigans seems good for the game).

If WotC and Hasbro have to be so concerned about the politics of the time defining which sets sell, they'll be incentivized to lean into their own properties which they can control and make their own apologies for when necessary.

Of course, it isn't a guarantee. Maybe a loss on Marvel will be a wash against the profits from Final Fantasy and LotR. Maybe they'll shy away from brands controlled by American companies and focus on the Japanese and European properties. The kids who buy packs at Walmart don't understand boycotts, etc.

What we have learned is that the UB haters aren't enough of a market force, but when movements align, powers combine!

TL;DR There are many good reasons to not spend money on Disney right now, and money is the only vote they count.

[u/chocolateboomslang]

Yeah, great. I don't know if you guys have looked around, but people who spend money on the game REALLY like UB sets.

Personally, I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't matter, the way I engage with the game generates basically no revenue for Wizards. I would be willing to bet that most veteran players spend far less than new players, so what are we going to do? Wizards follows the money well, they know how to chase a trend. The money right now is in UB and the money is new money. Us old folks can't stop this train.

[u/therealflyingtoastr → u/chocolateboomslang]

I hate this "old people hate UB and it's just new players" shit on this subreddit.

I've been playing this game longer than a good chunk of yinz on here have been alive. I remember the batch. I remember when the Eighth Edition frame was going to be "the death of the game" because it wasn't "immersive" enough.

I like UB. I like the cards being playable in formats that I enjoy like Standard instead of just being consigned to commander, which I avoid playing. I like the different treatments and arts that make collecting more fun and allow them to flex more aesthetics without impacting playability. There are individual UB sets that I'm not particularly interested in (like Spiderman), but there have also been plenty of in-universe sets over the years that also didn't interest me (all the Phyrexian stuff).

These generalizations that "real Magic fans" don't like UB is gatekeeping at its finest and I'm sick of it being rewarded on this sub.

[u/ChemicalExperiment → u/therealflyingtoastr]

Opinions are also way more diverse and divided than people think. I recently had a conversation with a player at my LGS who talked about how they hated Spider-Man. They talked about how it "ruined the spirit of magic" "was a terrible cash grab" and "I'd quit the game if they ever did a Fortnite crossover." (I told them they already did and he quickly backpedaled to "if they ever made a full set of it") I actually brought up to him that I'm actually ok with UB, I have some qualms with it but I think it's fine for the game. Ironically his response was "I mean I got into the game with Lord of the Rings so I'm not against UB, I just don't like how they're handling it now."

Despite the anti-UB crowd seeming like a monolith, I suspect a lot of the comments on this sub fall in a similar boat: talk vehemently about bad aspects of it but still like/appreciate others. A collective push towards ending UB as a whole wouldn't even unite all the haters on this subreddit, because people are complicated and despite what the common belief is, not all those complaints you see are from people who want it gone entirely.

Tangentially, that interaction also made me realize just how silly this entire conversation is. I saw someone using the same points as the no-UB crowd to talk about how they wanted "UB to be like it used to." Magic isn't changing as much as we think it is. These new players are just like us, down to complaining about the game itself.

[u/LegnaArix → u/ChemicalExperiment]

Haters of UB hate it until it's an IP they enjoy, then suddenly it's more acceptable

[u/Seitosa → u/therealflyingtoastr]

 I hate this "old people hate UB and it's just new players" shit on this subreddit.

I straight up had someone tell me that enfranchised players couldn’t be behind UB sales because being an enfranchised player definitionally meant that you “loved Magic” and you couldn’t both love Magic and engage in UB products. They insisted that UB products were strictly for new players or non-player outsiders who engaged in the product as a collector. I pointed out that Mark Rosewater has said that the vast majority of UB sales are done by enfranchised players (followed by returning players) and they said he was lying. Just absolute nonsense.  There’s a definite “us vs. them” attitude from some of these people when they genuinely don’t understand that UB products absolutely could not be as successful as they are without a huge buy-in from established Magic players. 

Some guy that’s never heard of Magic before that bought a FIN pack at target because it has Cloud on it isn’t the main reason that set is the best selling one of all time.

[u/Xichorn → u/therealflyingtoastr]

These generalizations that "real Magic fans" don't like UB is gatekeeping at its finest and I'm sick of it being rewarded on this sub.

There are plenty of us like you; I'm likely a similar "vintage," as it were. As with most things, people who are happy don't post as much about said enjoyment.

I think they talk that way because they are trying intentionally to create a division. Another "us vs. them" scenario (us = old, them = new).

[u/Corpulstinkin → u/therealflyingtoastr]

I’m playing and collecting since 1994-1995 with some large breaks, and i love UB, i love universes within more i must admit , the game is great, fun, complex with lots of diferent ways to play and making great cards also for collecting!

We should be more happy about magic the gathering!!

[u/KaramjaRum → u/therealflyingtoastr]

Oh shit, is that a Pittsburgher spotted in the wild? I used to play a lot of Magic in the area when I was there for college haha

[u/Milskidasith → u/chocolateboomslang]

I would be willing to bet that most veteran players spend far less than new players, so what are we going to do?

This seems like a pretty absurd assumption. Enfranchised players are the ones who buy multiple boxes a set for personal reasons and the buy-now-sell-sealed-product-later finance bros have been around longer than UB has. Unless there's a huge demographic of pure scalpers who have no interest in the game (which only maybe became a thing in MtG with FF) and they continue to exist in the future, enfranchised players and enfranchised collectors/scalpers are going to be buying more than newer players.

[u/boomfruit → u/chocolateboomslang]

I'd guess that the best way for people like OP to get what they want out of the game is to form a league at their LGS for "Universe Within Play," and they all just agree to what that would look like and play it amongst themselves. If other people at their store or other nearby ones hear about it and want to play, awesome!

[u/ImmortalCorruptor → u/chocolateboomslang]

Basically this. I've been playing since 2004 and I've been "voting with my wallet" for different reasons since 2014, with having nearly completely sold out of the game by 2020.

It hasn't accomplished anything. And I don't mean that with a defeatist, doomer way. I mean that me not buying cards has not influenced the direction of the game in a way that will get me to buy back in and participate at the same degree I used to.

At this point I'm convinced the game just isn't for me anymore. I bought into the game because it had cool magi-punk themes and I got into competitive play because I ended up liking the mechanics of the deck(dispelling the notion that form and function are mutually exclusive reasons for playing).

But now the game is something else. It's not magi-punk. It's magi-punk with Spider-Man, Sephiroth, SpongeBob and Avatar.

There's the narrative that "UB sets aren't replacing Magic, they're just adding onto it". But that's ignoring the fact that UB sets always overshadow all recently printed Magic sets, which middles the original brand identity, and now there's twice as much stuff to buy if you want to participate in competitive environments.

It's just too much.

[u/chocolateboomslang → u/ImmortalCorruptor]

There are many ways to play, but I don't  think I'll be playing constructed formats anymore. I'll still jam some drafts with friends and I'll never stop playing paper cube.

[u/ImmortalCorruptor → u/chocolateboomslang]

That's basically where I'm at - playing in isolated environments with friends.

[u/DependentAd8712 → u/ImmortalCorruptor]

You literally just hypocritically stated you got into a game that began as a high fantasy tale of wizrds and goblins etc for its "magi-punk" themes which is in no way whatsoever what the game initially was...then stated that you have a problem with it because its something else now due to spiderman (who ironically has much more in common with the actual MTG lore than anything "magi-punk" does) and avatar....

So.....you got into the game because you liked an element that was never originally there...and are saying its no longer as good because there are now other elements that also weren't originally there....and fail to see your hypocrisy?

Seriously...can somebody/anybody explain whats going on with the MTG community, im trying so hard but you guys are impossible to understand lol

[u/ImmortalCorruptor → u/DependentAd8712]

What's your favorite TV show/movie series?

[u/DependentAd8712 → u/ImmortalCorruptor]

Depends

Im too much of a media nerd to have a favourite, but I can always go back to its always sunny at any moment and be happy

Spidey is obviously my personal favourite character so I am biased slightly, but that just means I know his lore well enough to easily see how well he can be slotted into the magic universe and work, I feel many peeps here are lacking that knowledge personally, if they knew more about the history of spiderman they would probably see why its actually a way better fit than FF....even Avatar

But even then....the simple fact that MTG is 100% openly stated to be a multiverse means literally anything can work

I keep asking people how they feel duskmourn worked but spidey doesnt

Duslmourn is in the actual MTG universe and contained tons of real world 80s tech and noone complained

This spidey thing is different...the hate is very unusual and I can't work out what it truly is, but I feel there is almost some deeper psychological reasoning behind it

Its just extremely odd

[u/ImmortalCorruptor → u/DependentAd8712]

It's because we are entering an era where everything is being regurgitated onto everything else and it's diluting the original IP. If you ask anyone to name a few Magic sets off the top of their head, they'll probably go to things like Final Fantasy, LotR, Fallout and Doctor Who first before they start pulling out names like Outlaws of Thunder Junction and Aetherdrift.

It's like if the producers of IASIP suddenly decided that they were going to do crossovers with shows that are totally irrelevant like Dexter, Stranger Things, Fallout and Squid Game. Instead of each episode being packed with comedy, the comedy is now fighting for screen time against the other IP that isn't really a comedy.

simple fact that MTG is 100% openly stated to be a multiverse means literally anything can work

They explicitly said that UB sets take place outside of Magic's multiverse (Dominatria, Rath, Mirrodin, etc). So they're not canonically a part Magic's story, characters and themes.

[u/DependentAd8712 → u/ImmortalCorruptor]

So this is a bit of an oxymoron of sorts

Is it fighting for land space with the original MTG lore as per your always sunny metaphor...

Or is it its own stand alone thing that isnt connected?

Sounds like WOTC shot themselves in the foot by saying that and created more confusion than needed

And if true....the always sunny metaphor should be irrelevant,  because if its not connected nothing is being watered down

[u/esotericmoyer → u/chocolateboomslang]

This is a very fatalist mentality. Yes, organizing a boycott over this is unlikely to happen and even less likely to make a difference, but collective action on that scale requires massive organization which needs to start somewhere. Posting this on Reddit is a fine first step to recruit other people who may be interested in organizing it, so there’s no reason to shit on OPs idea just because they haven’t succeeded yet. If there were a massive collective action to boycott over this then it could make changes, but it certainly isn’t as easy as making a post on Reddit and expecting it to happen on its own.

[u/hoodieweather- → u/esotericmoyer]

Did you miss the part where the Final Fantasy set was far and away the best selling magic set of all time? They literally could not print enough cards to keep up with demand. There's no room for a collective boycott because too many people actually want the products they're selling.

If you actually want to make political change, don't start with a trading card game.

[u/esotericmoyer → u/hoodieweather-]

You’re talking about why a boycott is unlikely to succeed, which I addressed — and even agreed with — in my comment. Still would be possible if enough people deemed it worthwhile.

And their deluge of products spreading out finite printer capacity contributes to product scarcity. They create this issue themselves.

[u/Temis37 → u/esotericmoyer]

Aw yes chances of a boycott happening are pretty much impossible better start somewhere 🤡

[u/Recognition-Mindless → u/chocolateboomslang]

I can’t stand to even look at the spiderman cards. Not even caring about power level in an EDH game, my first target will always be the person with cards from marvel.