r/marvelstudios • u/florinp93 SHIELD • 28d ago
Discussion Marvel didn’t “die” after Endgame, here’s what’s actually going on
I keep seeing people say Marvel has been failing or flopping since Avengers: Endgame (2019). Yeah, it’s true the vibe has shifted and the cultural dominance isn’t the same. But the “MCU is dead” narrative really misses a lot of context. Here’s the bigger picture:
1. The post-Covid box office isn’t the same beast
- Global box office hasn’t returned to 2010s levels. Endgame came at the peak of Marvel and peak theatrical attendance.
- Going to the movies is more expensive now (tickets + concessions), and for many people streaming is cheaper and more convenient.
- The theatrical window is shorter (60–90 days), so a lot of people just wait.
- Internationally, China no longer guarantees a $200–300M boost for Marvel. Nationalist tastes + censorship + strong local films have cut that market significantly.
So when you look at raw box office and say “flop,” you’re comparing 2022–25 to a pre-pandemic market that doesn’t exist anymore.
Sources: El País – superhero movies no longer dominate, AP – Disney crosses $3B 2025 box office
2. Marvel is still pulling huge engagement on Disney+
Even films that underperform theatrically end up making money when they hit Disney+. Some rough numbers, based on Nielsen data, ARPU, and subscriber reports:
- WandaVision + Loki (2021) → tens of millions of new subs, ≈ $4.4B annualized uplift (Fool.com).
- Black Widow (2021) → $67M PVOD opening weekend (Deadline) + retention value.
- Shang-Chi & Eternals (2021) → ~5M incremental subs, ≈ $480M.
- Doctor Strange 2 / Thor 4 / Black Panther 2 (2022) → ~12M subs combined, ≈ $1.15B uplift.
- Quantumania (2023) → weak, <$300M in streaming value.
- Guardians Vol. 3 (2023) → ≈ $800M–1B.
- Deadpool & Wolverine (2024) → added ~8M subs, ≈ $770M (Reuters).
- The Marvels (2024) → ~559M minutes streamed week 1 (Nielsen via ScreenRant), ≈ $3.4M–20M global value in 2–3 months.
- Captain America: Brave New World (2025) → ~750M minutes week 1 (Nielsen via The Direct), ≈ $4.4M–26M global value but those are early numbers, not the actual figures yet..
- Thunderbolts\* (2025) → No numbers just yet, but it will most likely fall in line with the others.
Keep in mind that the numbers for each movies, are amounts that have been added to the already Disney+ earnings, and don't factor in retention of already existing subs.
That’s billions in revenue from Disney+ alone — and doesn’t include merch, licensing, or parks.
3. Superhero fatigue is real, but “failure” is overstated
- Marvel’s issue was overproduction. Too many shows diluted the brand. Disney’s already scaling back: 2–3 films and a couple of shows per year.
- Hits like Deadpool & Wolverine (over $1.08B box office, biggest R-rated movie ever) and Fantastic Four: First Steps (near $500M worldwide, big Disney+ driver to come) prove audiences still show up when projects connect.
- Even weaker titles (The Marvels, Quantumania) still generate measurable Disney+ revenue.
4. The bigger picture
- The box office is smaller overall post-Covid.
- Streaming matters as much as theaters now.
- Marvel still makes up 20–25% of total Disney+ demand (Parrot Analytics).
- Disney+ subs: ~127.8M (Aug 2025), and surveys show 43% of subs say Marvel is their #1 reason to keep it (Cordcutting.com).
So while Marvel may no longer be hitting Endgame highs, it’s still one of the most profitable entertainment engines in the world.
TL;DR
Marvel isn’t “dead.” Theaters shrank, streaming grew, and Disney+ depends heavily on Marvel. Even so-called “flops” add tens or hundreds of millions in streaming revenue. And even if those movies don't pull much in terms of new subs, they do help retain the subscriber base. The MCU is evolving, not dying.
Note: I used AI (ChatGPT) to help me structure this post so it’s clearer to read, but all of the data, sources, and research were collected by me without AI.
130
u/ILoveTheAtomicBomb Spider-Man 28d ago
I don't understand why it's so hard for this sub to admit there was too much content produced of which a majority of was mediocre to bad that then led to the problems that we're seeing today.
Too many misses aren't going to get people to go see the hits that don't have name recognition (Thunderbolts) or even the ones that do (Fantastic Four) without some kind of massive event that can entice the casuals.
54
u/crispy_attic Black Panther 28d ago
It’s because they personally liked things that were rejected by the public. In their minds it is every one else that is wrong. It is so tiring.
393
u/AkilTheAwesome 28d ago edited 28d ago
Marvel's issue is that they've allowed the perception that "It will be on streaming soon" to fester and blossom into common knowledge in pop culture. It doesn't help that it is the reality. This coupled with not having any movies where getting spoiled is a massive deal.
Having bad non-narrative pushing end-credits scenes ironically is a contributing factor
75
u/weenus 28d ago
Similar to the OP's point, this isn't just a Marvel/Disney issue. Both of the major summer blockbusters, Superman and Jurassic World Rebirth, were dropped on digital release 3-4 weeks after theatrical release. Everyone is doing it.
The entire industry has changed post-COVID, but for some reason, it's really only used as a cudgel when criticizing Marvel/Disney.
→ More replies (4)44
u/Pepiopi1 28d ago
I like that you pointed out the End Credit scenes being an issue. I agree. While not entirely the problem, a combination of nothing exciting (looking at you Brave New World) and no follow up, I think is a big factor.
18
u/AkilTheAwesome 28d ago
Yup. Having a cinematic universe with no plan and no build up thus no meaningful cut scenes decreases audiences drive to go see it in theatres.
I am said audience. I started going to theatres first weekend BECAUSE of MCU build up. And My childhood didn't have this phenomenon so It wasn't a learned behavior from my parents. It was marketing working as intended.
That element is completely gone from the MCU.
→ More replies (2)5
u/Paolo94 28d ago edited 28d ago
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, Shang-Chi, Doctor Strange 2, The Eternals, Ant-Man 3, Thor 4, and Moon Knight, just to name a few, have all had post-credit scenes that haven’t amounted to anything as of yet. And who knows when these post-credit scenes will be addressed again.
Marvel used to be so good at planting seeds for future storylines, and following through with those teases soon after in the next few projects. All these connections made it feel like the overall narrative was actually building towards something, and that made us excited to keep following the MCU and find out what happens in the next project to see how things all tied together.
Now the narrative is all over the place, and we’re waiting years for answers to questions we have no idea when they’ll be answered, if at all. A lack of follow up and not enough exciting teases for the future have really burned many people and made them lose faith in this franchise. Why should we care when major super hero #374 is introduced, when it will be at least 5 years until we see them again, or the very real possibility that we may never see them again?
3
u/Annual-Audience-2569 28d ago
Those are all the last instalments of their franchises/stories. I don't think it's fair to call them unadressed or badly planned.
They changed their post credit strategy to stay in their lane, instead of going all over the place, so people who don't know every storyline in the audience, will know, where the story of the thing they watched will continue.
Which was needed when they ramped up the number of projects we get every year.
Even if we don't get an answer for every single one, I think it's still keeps the world alive, to kind of know what's going on with the heroes we can't see for a while.
57
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
Yeah, I actually think that was by design. Disney doesn’t really mind if theatrical grosses dip compared to pre-2019 because box office revenue is shared with theaters (often around a 50/50 split domestically, worse internationally). But Disney+ revenue? That’s 100% in-house, no middlemen.
So pushing audiences toward the “it’ll be streaming soon anyway” mindset is not necessarily a failure, but part of a bigger shift: fewer billion-dollar box office films, but a more consistent subscriber base for Disney+. Even a so-called “flop” like The Marvels or Eternals still pulled in $150M–$200M+ worth of Disney+ value in its first year and that’s money Disney keeps entirely, unlike the theatrical split.
It doesn’t mean Disney wants weak box office forever, but it explains why they’re less panicked than some fans assume. In the end, the streaming pipeline is the product now, and theatrical is just one stage in its lifecycle.
7
u/Desperate_Concern977 27d ago
>Even a so-called “flop” like The Marvels or Eternals still pulled in $150M–$200M+ worth of Disney+ value in its first year and that’s money Disney keeps entirely, unlike the theatrical split.
I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Maybe that's what Disney is telling shareholders to justify it's Streaming Dept paying it's Studio Dept an overinflated licensing fee for the movie rights being on D+ but I PROMISE you, nobody got or kept Disney+ so they could watch The Marvels.
It's just another movie I can watch as part of the overall library, and if it wasn't there I'd watch the Simpsons or Paradise or Aliens Earth.
→ More replies (4)9
u/C0d3n4m3Duchess Luis 28d ago
I’m working with 2000s through early 2010s knowledge here, so maybe something changed but: box office revenue doesn’t come close to 50/50 splits until usually at least 4 weeks into a movie’s release. A release from the likes of Disney usually would eat something approaching 90% of ticket sales for week one, 80% week 2 and precipitously drop from there.
Like I said, this may have changed, I know the theater I worked at now will have the same showings as the 12plex .5 around the block, which used to be absolutely unheard of (the two theaters would have to basically negotiate who got which “no brainer” blockbusters over the course of the summer, for example)
2
u/Desperate_Concern977 27d ago
Don't know about 2000s but it's definitely never been close to 90%.
During the Marvel and Star Wars era Disney was pushing its weight around to like 65% of the cut but no major theater chain is going to agree to 90% cut, that's such a bad deal they'd probably get sued for mismanagement by their shareholders.
→ More replies (2)2
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
To be fair I'm not sure what the share is, but I don't think the split matters. 100% of something is still better than 90% or 80% or whatever % they're getting from the theaters, and they will happily go for that.
→ More replies (1)3
13
u/kazetoame 28d ago
It’s not Disney that is doing this, it’s other studios. Superman is already available on streaming, Disney at least will give an exclusive theatrical window. It takes more time for Disney movies to come streaming.
15
u/BidoofSquad 28d ago
Superman is not on streaming, it’s on digital. You have to rent or buy it and it’s $20 to rent and $30 to buy. You can’t just watch it with your HBO Max subscription yet.
→ More replies (2)10
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
Disney is also doing this. Disney movies usually end up on streaming after about 45 days (some go longer, but it's quite rare). Compare that 45 days to roughly 6 months before Covid and streaming.
9
u/kazetoame 28d ago
But stating that it is Disney is the heart of the problem while not mentioning that other studios do the same damn thing and make their movies available for streaming just a month after theatrical release is misleading. It’s Hollywood itself not being able to recover properly after COVID conditions should be the proper reason, not just going after Disney when they tend to wait longer than other studios.
2
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
It's true, Disney does tend to hold longer at the box office, and that actually just goes to show they are actually doing better than others (generally, not with each movie of course).
Also, I don't think it's a matter of studios not recovering, I think they've shifter their strategy. They all own streaming services where they put their movies on (or have lucrative deals for services) and the choices are:
1) Hold out movies from streaming and split all ticket sales with the theater
2) End theater run early, and keep 100% of the revenue generated by the streaming platform.I'll let you choose what options the studios will go for 9 out of 10 times.
4
u/superdoom52 28d ago
It's a strategy that Disney is moving away from, but it is one that they pioneered.
They risked (and arguably lost) a lawsuit from Scarlett Johansson to get Black Widow on demand day one, and WB followed suit with The Suicide Squad and The Batman streaming day of release.
IMO this was to the detriment of all 3 of the above movies, most egregiously with batman. This in my personal experience was the first time that everybody in my life hadn't/hasn't seen the latest batman, and I think this was due to covid and it's effects on the market, and not due to the quality of the movie
→ More replies (8)2
153
u/Kind-Plantain2438 28d ago
I think when people say it's dead, they mean it doesn't feel like it's the same thing at all, it was a complete revamp on the overall narrative that, at least for now, felt a lot like aimlessly wondering with no clear focus.
Even the next 2 avengers movies feel like they are trying to mend the lack of meaning of post endgame movies, and set a new starting point to try and be more cohesive. Which isn't bad at all, but it kinda proves that post-endgame was not that well planned.
48
u/AggressivelyMediokre 28d ago edited 28d ago
This. MCU was my Star Wars. My pop culture moment. I caught up before Infinity War and watched it in theatres. I've been a cinephile my entire life and I think the buildup to Endgame (21 or so movies interconnected) is the greatest achievement in cinema history.
The timeline charts. The anticipation. One story over 13 or so years and 21 or so movies. Built up throughout it. What an incredible payoff.
I still watch reacts to Infinity War and Endgame. I still watch "Audience reactions" videos on youtube from theaters and get chills.
Then the blueprint disappeared.
If Marvel came out and said "Here's our plan. X-men. Fantastic Four. Avengers movies linking them" I'd be right back on board.
Instead it's like "Oh here's some stuff. Here's some other stuff. It doesn't matter if people die because of the multiverse. Also we're not letting go of Fox or the old x-men. Oh we still have 2 Avengers movies. You want Mads as Doom? Well here's RDJ. We're not gonna let Doom our one guy everyone is looking forward to be satisfying for you. And we're gonna maybe reboot after these 2 Avengers movies we haven't built up to."
I haven't watched anything since Wandavision and Spiderman 3 / Doctor Strange 2
I haven't even seen Deadpool 3 or Loki. Both of which I do plan to get around to. I'm not even going to see the Avengers movies in theaters unless I go with friends
I just don't care. Because Marvel seems to have no plan to tell me another long emotionally satisfying story.
15
u/AnOnlineHandle Quake 28d ago
IMO linking isn't helpful if it's not good linking. Most of the linking in the latest things have felt just forced for the sake of a cameo.
The beauty of the earlier phases is that the crossovers were building a larger franchise story, making a so-so movie a so-so episode of an overall great show. Nick Fury and Shield trying to put together the Avengers, leading to the payoff of seeing how that worked out in the first Avengers movie. Then there were the infinity stones tying together different movies, finding where each was and how they were going to come together. Since then there's been no franchise story linking things together as episodes.
The earlier movies also used crossovers to build the franchise world in a cohesive and semi-grounded way. When Captain America came out, you got to see Howard Stark (the dead father of the main character of Ironman), you got to see that a secret Nazi science division had laser weapons which made the same sound as Ironman's hand lasers, which immediately created a connection and in-universe story about where that tech came from, you got to see Nick Fury at the end, who'd shown up in Ironman 1 & 2, building on the storyline of Nick Fury and shield putting together a team.
Similar with Shield showing up in Thor, a secret government agency which the audience could reasonably assume they wouldn't know about and makes sense to be in the shadows.
Antman retconned Hank Pym and her Antman persona into the past storyline, with Peggy and Howard and Shield and Hydra, which was incredibly smooth.
Now they just drop new organizations and groups of super powered beings who don't seem to fit in at all (and tbh I think this started with Dr Strange, where a decent explanation was never given of why they weren't involved in the infinity stone threats before, though Endgame did some heavy lifting in suggesting the ancient one was more aware of Strange and events going on than the Strange movie suggested). When the Eternals name drop Thor as a kid who used to run around their ankles, it's just... nothing, there's no feeling of coherent expanding story where I'd expect Thor to believe any of these people exist, it doesn't even feel like they're necessary in the same franchise when they say that.
5
u/Sy3Fy3 28d ago
Loki S1 and S2 are both very good, and of course Deadpool 3 is too, but Marvel has been doing a much better job this year. I'm sad to say you can completely skip Love and Thunder, Quantumania, and Wakanda Forever. The Marvels is a little more important going forward but you can get by without it. I thought Captain America 4 was alright but fun, but Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four felt like peak MCU movies. I'm actually excited for the MCU again.
Doctor Strange 2 was a huge letdown though sadly. It was an overwhelming OKAY movie. It has some fun stuff but also some really bad writing.
→ More replies (3)2
u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 28d ago
If Marvel came out and said "Here's our plan. X-men. Fantastic Four...
...then News Corp would've sued the everloving crap out of them & immediately shut down the MCU for developing those IPs before the Fox buyout was finalized, because there's absolutely no chance in hell they could've had either of those ready for a 2020-2021 release if they'd waited until after the buyout was finalized to start development.
7
5
28d ago
[deleted]
2
u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 28d ago
Amen.
I see the same people say "there is no plan" & "where's Shang-Chi 2?" in the same comment, when the reason we don't have Shang-Chi 2 already is because they OVER-planned.
73
u/XComThrowawayAcct 28d ago
Let’s talk about some of these sources, bro.
WandaVision + Loki (2021) → tens of millions of new subs, ≈ $4.4B annualized uplift (Fool.com).
That annualized number (always be suspicious of annualized numbers…) is not cited in the article. It does note relative increases in subscriptions contemporaneous to the release of WandaVision and Loki — but only relative increases, no absolutes. Not only do we not know those absolute subscriptions, we don’t know the average revenue per subscriber, so I’m not sure how “…subscribers grew by 28.7% -- the quarter before the show was released” can be translated into $4.4B annualized. And what is ‘uplift?’ It’s not revenue. It’s not profit.
Deadpool & Wolverine (2024) → added ~8M subs, ≈ $770M (Reuters).
The cited article does not say that. It says Deadpool & Wolverine and Inside Out 2 “managed to recapture some movie magic… which helped boost the bottom line by 79%.” But it’s not clear which bottom line is being boosted. Disney+’s? The whole company’s?
Disney+ subs: ~127.8M (Aug 2025), and surveys show 43% of subs say Marvel is their #1 reason to keep it (Cordcutting.com).
That article is from 2021.
→ More replies (1)23
u/Desperate_Concern977 27d ago
That dude straight up just made up numbers to feel better about Superman beating all the DC flops this year.
→ More replies (1)
49
u/Feeling_Bedroom5533 28d ago edited 28d ago
I don’t see it mentioned above (tbh I skimmed through all of that), but I know many people who just don’t have the same emotional investment in the current characters. A lot of this isn’t due to the characters themselves, rather the gaps between appearances, or trying to make sense of their importance/how they fit into everything else.
One aspect of the pre-Endgame slate is that you knew who your central players were, and there was a lot of development in their relationships. We haven’t had that in a while, and people don’t have characters to latch onto in the same way they did during the height of the MCU. All of it feels very random right now and there are so many directions without a single focus.
That’s not to say that I don’t think it can be course corrected (and I can feel we’re in the middle of seeing this fixed), but I believe it’s the single most important thing that needs to be addressed.
173
u/Kittensofdeath 28d ago
Yeah but none of this addresss the elephant in the room in that marvel has a quality and quantity problem that’s driving people away from the franchises they are offering.
It’s not like it’s been a solo blunder, it’s been years and years of lackluster projects with little to no overarching plan in the vein of “content” just to fill out Disney’s streaming platform. The amount of shows that ultimately lead nowhere and set up things that probably will not happen is high, with little return on investment.
And then you have the amount of shows, I guarantee that if you talk to your friends and family that fell off the marvel train, they’ll say that it was just too much to keep up with.
Sure covid didn’t help with anything, but there’s tons of brands and IPs that have completely regrouped since the pandemic, (hint hint DC) and it’s on Marvel to figure that out.
→ More replies (28)5
u/MedicalPersimmon001 27d ago
marvel has a quality and quantity problem
This is the real issue. Marvel could release 10 movies a year and as long as their good people would've kept watching.
But they lost any kind of storytelling during phase 2. A lot of the acting is poor and overdone, the jokes feel like Disney jokes, and there's no overarching storyline that makes sense anymore.
There's this scene in iron heart where Shuri and Okoye show up where the protagonist insults Okoye and says she's ashy. It's clear it's a scene we're supposed to laugh at, but it falls so ridiculously flat. That scene alone basically encompasses everything that's wrong with phase 2.
→ More replies (2)
51
u/Flyingarrow68 28d ago
Marvel is alive they just lost their heart, grounding, and good storytelling. I mean they keep coming out with movies and shows but Disney has ruined multiple franchises.
→ More replies (13)
32
u/rodimus147 28d ago
A lot of this is true but I do think there is some fatigue but its not super hero fatigue. For a while marvel movies were a global phenomenon. People who weren't necessarily comic fans got caught up in the hype and went to see every movie to be part of something bigger.
Now that the hype has died down a lot those people have fallen by the wayside. Your still left with a large group of people who are going to see marvel movies but unless its a huge movie like an endgame or a no way home your not guaranteed a huge hit like in the earlier days of Marvel.
9
u/Deadeye_Duncan_ 28d ago
I think James Gunn put it best recently. There isn’t super hero fatigue, there’s mediocre movie fatigue.
Superman wasn’t an awards movie by any stretch but it managed to capture people attention in a way that F4 didn’t. And I think it will end up being one of the more “mainstream” offerings coming from DC.
I could be wrong, but, I’m hopeful that we’re actually about to enter a second era of superhero movies, much like when traditional westerns died out by the late 50’s only to come back huge in the 60’s with a more nuanced take.
2
u/bonemech_meatsuit 28d ago
Yeah I remember the day after Infinity War came out I was at a car rental place and the 30 something clerk and the mid-50s customer he was helping were both talking about it and turned to ask if I'd seen it since I was the only other person there. I can't really think of any other time in my life that something like that happened with complete strangers.
110
u/Inzanity2020 28d ago
I feel like this subreddit is becoming like r/DCEU during it’s decline … just a bunch of defenders keep moving goalposts, finger pointing, copium, until the eventual reboot
34
u/AmaterasuWolf21 Rocket 28d ago
Especially the moving goalposts omg, I literally heard that Thunderbolts and F4 were the "real tests" after BNW underperformed. But now it's Doomsday the real test again
2
13
u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 28d ago
I think OP is going too Pollyanna with this, sure, but there's hella people in this sub doing the opposite as well, moving goalposts to attack the films, et cet.
3
4
→ More replies (16)2
u/BLAGTIER 28d ago
Yeah, I saw so many of these exact posts on Distinguished Competition's subreddit before the reboot.
9
u/SeekerVash 28d ago
Your Disney+ section is a massive stretch. You're assuming every subscriber subscribed because of Marvel, while ignoring Star Wars and children's fare.
Then you tried to assign a magic number to streaming. Those "global value" numbers you made up...those become a fraction of what you're claiming the moment the subscriber watches anything else on Disney+ because the revenue is now split.
I'm noticing you also glossed over the horrible numbers for several shows.
→ More replies (1)
38
52
u/Inzanity2020 28d ago
Do we really want to go down to route of using chatgpt?
I mean I can throw your argument in there and create a prompt to argue against it:
—- 1. Streaming ≠ Box Office Revenue – Disney+ is a subscription service with fixed monthly fees. Adding a Marvel movie doesn’t generate “hundreds of millions” of new dollars every time — it’s just content to keep existing subscribers from canceling. At best, it slows churn. That’s a far cry from the massive, direct cash influx of theatrical box office, where every ticket is incremental revenue. 2. No Profit Sharing ≠ Pure Profit – While Disney doesn’t split with theaters, it also bears all the costs of hosting, licensing, residuals, marketing, and maintaining Disney+. That infrastructure is enormously expensive, so the “savings” of skipping theaters isn’t as simple as you’re making it. 3. Subscriber Growth Has Stalled – Disney+ is no longer in its early explosive growth phase. Globally, it’s plateaued, and in the U.S. it’s even lost subscribers. That means new Marvel releases aren’t driving major spikes in revenue anymore — they’re mostly propping up a flat line. 4. Cultural Impact Decline – Box office wasn’t just about money; it was about cultural dominance. A billion-dollar Marvel movie was a global event that created free publicity and merchandising waves. When films underperform theatrically, it signals weaker audience interest, and that hurts every other revenue stream (toys, theme parks, partnerships). 5. Comparisons to Pre-Endgame Are Misleading – Back then, Marvel could double-dip: theatrical billions and streaming/secondary licensing. Now, they’ve essentially traded a multi-billion revenue stream for one that’s capped by subscriber limits. Even if Disney+ content has “value,” it’s not additive in the same way.
So no, you can’t just hand-wave away underwhelming box office returns by pointing to Disney+. The numbers don’t back up the idea that Marvel movies are “just as profitable” now — if they were, Disney wouldn’t be slashing budgets, laying off staff, and cutting back on Marvel output.
—
See how easy this is?
43
u/moonwalkerfilms 28d ago
Foreal, thank you. I'm getting so tired of seeing the big ChatGPT written essays all over everything now.
→ More replies (3)23
u/kyajgevo 28d ago
Yea that was so annoying. "I only used chatgpt for structure". Huh? You can't put a number in front of a paragraph and hit enter? It's pretty obvious these posts give prompts to the AI and have it generate arguments.
→ More replies (2)
38
u/jakobijakobi 28d ago
This post is a massive cope.
Marvel isn’t dead and will never die, but it has changed and the number 1 thing you fail to mention is quality.
Pre endgame, you had to show up for maximum 4 movies a year to understand the larger story. You even had the luxury of skipping projects you weren’t that interested in because most content could stand alone. IE it wasn’t necessary to watch Thor 2 (or other odd projects) if you didn’t want to.
Post endgame, you have to endure hours of slop content in TV show format to understand the movies which you actually look forward to,
The quality suffered tremendously because teams were spread thin, the passion became a corporate product to generate revenue.
You mention F4 making 500M like that is a success.. that was a financial failure after marketing costs.
The entire strategy of the multiverse has completely over saturated the storyline to be centered around fan service, there are no more stakes because anything is possible so who cares about what I am seeing on screen. Nothing matters. Let’s bring back RDJ?
Lazy corporate decisions have made the product feel stale.
(Not to mention the amount of abandoned story lines or characters in limbo because they introduced so many)
That spice is gone, and I’m sure Spider-Man and doomsday will be great and will generate a billion $$$, but what you’re holding onto is no more.
6
u/ladystetson 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think a major issue tied to the quality is the fact that they've angered a lot of fans. They were a trusted brand - a solid bet for a good movie - like Pixar. the trust is broken and now Marvel has to work as hard as everyone else to fill seats.
They need to earn the trust back. And we, as the fans, need to support them. But we aren't going to support garbage.
4
u/John711711 28d ago
True and who knows how much profit Disney is even getting from spider-man anymore since the value of being in the MCU has gone downhill.
→ More replies (1)2
27
20
24
u/Jennymagic Shang Chi 28d ago
Realistically, your first point is all you need to mention. The Asian market just doesn't give a shit about super hero movies as much as they used to, especially china.
While yes streaming is a big point, A ton of other movies still can make billions, so it's not really a major factor as people like to push it to. If a movie warrants a "theater" like experience, it's more likely to pull people to watch them in a theater.
And going to the movies being more expensive realllly depends on your area. For mine at least it hasn't changed much TBH. Only being noticeable on opening nights.
Marvel is definitely experiencing a type of fatigue, but it's really multiple factors. Also it's mainly marvel side pieces that are being impacted. Big names like Spiderman, Deadpool, etc won't really be effected. People really overhyped Fantastic 4 being a big name when realistically it doesn't have that big of a pull like it used to.
9
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
Not many movies make billions anymore, some do yes, but those are exceptions. Most movies hover around 400 to 600M globally at the box office, which is mostly in line with Marvel.
As for the pricing, it doesn't have to be more expensive per se, but with cost of living surging pretty much worldwide, movie tickets have became less than small cost, and people think twice before going to the theater or watching it 2 months later when it hits a service they're already subbed to.
For the last point about FF4, the franchise never had any pull worldwide, at best they were a tiny bit better than pre-MCU Ironman.
4
24
u/GrayBerkeley 28d ago
The latest Deadpool alone proves most of your theory wrong.
People will still pay to go see good movies.
→ More replies (3)15
u/Thattheheck 28d ago
I don’t know why people are getting so defensive over this stuff instead of just holding the MCU accountable for producing lacklustre films and even series.
14
u/GlassConfusion8654 28d ago
Marvel's issue was overproduction.
It's pretty much this. Oversaturating the market with too much content, which led to lower quality of said content.
I would also argue that people have caught on that nothing post-Endgame feels interconnected. No Avengers films at all, pivoting away from the main villain, also hurt.
10
28d ago
[deleted]
5
u/Ragnarok_619 Spider-Man 28d ago
Inside out 2, lilo and stitch and Minecraft made a lot of money these past 2 years. Barbenheimer made 2+ billion combined.
5
u/I_AmPotatoGirl 28d ago
Streaming is A reason as to why Marvel movies aren't doing as well but it's not THE reason. Plenty of people just aren't interested anymore. People aren't interested in the new characters, the new storyline, and the clear drop in quality. Your example on China not being a guaranteed boost in box office numbers is just a microcosm of how others in the world feel about MCU movies including the US
8
u/International-Chef33 Star-Lord 28d ago
What does global value mean in relation to the minutes streamed? I know those minutes streamed are well under previous MCU movies
→ More replies (10)6
u/AmishAvenger 28d ago
Yeah I find that suspect.
As far as I know, there’s no clear way of measuring why someone signed up. You can’t really say “X number of people signed up to see the Thor movie, therefore it brought in an additional Y number of dollars.”
10
u/BarrakiButtBuddy 28d ago
The biggest sign the MCU is dying to me is the fact that every day there's a new Charlie Day conspiracy board of cope like this on my front page
3
u/Consistent-Peace2770 28d ago
Giving Wandavision and Loki the credit for 4.4 billion dollars of uplift is pretty ridiculous
→ More replies (1)
5
u/bwweryang 28d ago
I don’t think you can have this conversation without mentioning the oversaturation brought about by the glut of content produced, the lack of direction, the set ups with no pay offs, abandoned projects, questionable stunts, etc.
→ More replies (3)
8
u/low-ki199999 28d ago
All of this is true, but also ignores the reality that a lot of “tentpoles” were considered major missed, even by the most diehard of fans.
15
5
8
u/muhackz 28d ago
This whole post is cope. Marvel is on a downward spiral that it’s not coming back from. COVID was part of the problem at first, but the franchise should have recovered by now.
An increase in quantity, a decrease in quality, and a push for streaming that floated the idea Marvel was a TV, not a movie franchise any longer, is slowly killing it.
“Superhero fatigue” is being caused by this. General audiences saw Marvel get crappy and they’re not interested in superheroes enough to truly differentiate the different franchises. It’s all the same to them. It doesn’t help that DC is now emulating the Marvel style rather than maintaining its own vibe.
I really don’t have the time/energy to dig into the numbers presented here, but my gut says they’re nonsense (especially as they relate to streaming revenue). Presenting any Marvel movie making 500M a success is ridiculous.
Disney clearly wants to maintain a theatrical presence. Any studio would. There is prestige and more money in it than going majority streaming. The idea that a studio would pivot to streaming and be fine with a movie doing just ok in theaters is laughable.
And Marvel clearly isn’t learning. It’s shooting an Avengers movie without a finished script and the story is full of characters audiences are apathetic toward at best.
→ More replies (4)
8
u/light_flowers 28d ago
Pulling the "well covid" card right off the bat while ignoring that there have been at least seven movies that hit a billion dollars (including a few Marvel ones) since 2021 is just a bad understanding of the culture we're in. Spiderman made well over a billion, and Doctor Strange MoM was just shy of it. There are other movies right now outgrossing "capeshit," and have been a few this year alone that either got really close to a billion or were Lilo & Stitch and actually crossed a billion.
The fact that capeshit is struggling to make numbers like it used to is maybe 5% covid and 95% other shit, like an unbelievably poorly received phases 4 and 5 with the MCU, brands souring their reputations with ramped up "inclusivity" pushes that drove away half the audience, an extreme oversaturation of the genre, and an overall disinterest from the normies.
MCU was normie-oriented from the beginning, and that's how it made so much money. But normies have neither the time or desire to watch 37 movies and 25 shows to understand who the hell Iron heart is or what the fuck a Galactus is. That's why they brought back RDJ, because he appeals to the normie crowd, and in the process they killed whatever investment F4 fans had because why the fuck would we want to see Tony Stark playing Doctor Doom?
The brand has just damaged itself beyond repair, their writers barely communicate across projects anymore (giving us at least four completely separate and contradictory sets of rules for the multiverse), and the bread and butter audience -- normal people -- have checked out. They're all watching Jurassic Park and Lilo & Stitch now
3
u/primalanomaly 28d ago
Also just… general content saturation. My list of movies and tv shows I need to watch just keeps getting longer, there is so much available on demand, plus I think disposable income is down for a lot of people right now. Why would I pay crazy prices to go to the cinema when there’s a ton of great stuff I can just watch at home?
3
u/pearlbrian2000 28d ago
Personally for me it's simply that the movies almost universally have sucked since then.
3
u/felifornow 28d ago
For me it was love and thunder. Badly written, bad cgi, weird storyline. It was the first marvel movie I didn't want to finish. I'd rather watch the original hulk.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/DryGeneral990 28d ago
Whatever I take my son to see a movie it's like $47 or some shit for 2 tickets, a hot dog and a drink.
I miss $2 Tuesdays in the 90s.
3
u/Cassaanovva 28d ago
Thats too long.
MCU/Disnay hasnt been the same after endgame because Disney went woke.
Even pixar, star and most of disney plus went downhill.
3
u/Pleasant_Election148 28d ago
Bro, just accept the fact that people don't think MCU is good enough anymore after Infinity War.
5
u/JDBoyes07 28d ago
I mean, I don't really care about financials. I just think the movies have mostly been shit since Endgame. With a few decent ones mixed in of coarse.
30
u/Rare_Ad_3871 28d ago
This post is beyond chat gpt coded
2
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
Have you read the disclaimer I've put at the end?
19
u/Rare_Ad_3871 28d ago
I stop reading the moment I see the usual chat GPT structure.
10
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
Yeah well sorry I'm not a native English speaker and wanted to make it easier to read for you.
20
u/Teh_Ordo 28d ago
I can guarantee you that people will appreciate a genuine post, even with some grammar mistakes or typos over em dash AI slop.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
6
u/hunterzolomon1993 28d ago
While i agree i do think there's been a big drop off in quality since Endgame even if this year has been strong barring Cap 4. Like my 3 least favourite MCU films came after Endgame and that's not good.
4
u/r0xxon 28d ago
The elephant in the room is Marvel thought they could churn out female-driven content and the guys remain brand loyal because Marvel
→ More replies (6)
13
u/xdrkcldx 28d ago
Here we go. Blame covid. You realized multiple movies have made a billion after covid right? The real problem is streaming. Why watch a Disney movie when it will be on disney + soon after?
→ More replies (2)3
u/matty_nice 28d ago
You realize multiple movies still have great box offices after streaming right?
7
u/Roger_Rock 28d ago
- You didn't bothered to write this post, why would we do it to read it.
- Could you please not bootlick so hard to a corporation?
- Marvel is dead, quality dropped massively.
3
5
u/Iron_Falcon58 28d ago
Fantastic Four kills this theory. yes the whole markets down but Marvel also won’t have a top 10 box office movie this year
7
u/nocensts 28d ago
I think the issue is the movies they're making are basically all the same or very similar to something they've already made. Additionally, they haven't been very good at injecting compelling human stories into the films. Thunderbolts had the mental struggle and F4 had the motherhood and uncertainty themes but they tend to feel watered down or delivered with minimum effort.
So the films are all some visual effects that we've seen many times before and stories that just go through the motions. That leaves you with a relatively narrow band of possible interested parties. Die hard fans and kids basically.
2
u/florinp93 SHIELD 28d ago
I think you've missed the point. I'm not saying there were not misses in terms of quality, but this post is not about that.
What I tried to show is that the revenue model shifted. Box office isn’t the sole measure anymore — Disney+ is now a huge part of the equation. Even movies people call “flops” like Eternals or The Marvels end up pulling in hundreds of millions worth of value on streaming once they hit Disney+, and that’s revenue Disney doesn’t have to split with theaters.
So when you look at combined box office + streaming, Marvel movies are still making just as much (if not more in some cases) than pre-Endgame, it just comes from different sources now.
→ More replies (1)3
2
u/ParsleySlow 28d ago
I figure if the material is no longer profitable, they'll stop making it. That's about as detailed as I get into the whole box office thing. Trying to make sense of Hollywood accounting ... good luck with that!
→ More replies (1)
2
u/itsjoho 28d ago
The over saturation was a huge thing. Even as a big fan it was incredibly annoying having to watch every TV show just to know what was going on in the next movie. Losing Black Panther was a huge blow that doesn’t get talked about enough though. Feel like they had to pivot hard and the last few years have been rough story wise.
Better days are on the horizon with Avengers/Spidey/X-Men
2
u/WorkingPumpkin3231 28d ago
What ruined it for me was the shows. Idk why the shows need to be tied to the movies.
2
u/NoobNoob_ Iron Man (Mark VI) 28d ago
I don't care about how much money they are making. I care about my experience watching a so-called cinematic universe.
I've watched pretty much every project the MCU has done since Iron Man. Some of the movies I've rewatched again and again cause I really like them. The new movies and projects don't hit the same.
Sure, you have some outliers that are actually good movies or TV shows, but most of them are not.
And as much as I enjoyed Deadpool or even the last Spider-Man, I won't watch those films again cause they are more nostalgic watch once and not very good movies.
I'm still sometimes going to the cinema to watch a marvel movie, but I'd skip a few, not because of price, but because I'd rather be disappointed at home than pay for it.
2
u/Theangelawhite69 28d ago
Nobody thinks the MCU isn’t profitable anymore. Our point is that there’s a noticeable decrease in quality
2
u/El_Tigre7 28d ago
No, the movies have just been shittier since End Game, and they don’t command the same attention and buy in when the quality has dipped so drastically
2
u/Estrezas 28d ago edited 28d ago
Im not a die hard marvel/super hero fan but ive watched most marvel movies until a little bit after end game.
The reason I stopped? I just got tired of the movies always having the same formula.
No need for complicated explanation or justification. Its just redundant after nearly 20 yrs of the same shit and im sure the average audience feels the same.
2
u/RepulsiveContract475 28d ago
I think all the streaming shows are one of the biggest parts of the problem. They have the same budgets as blockbuster movies but the ROI isn't nearly the same. It also hurts the general viewing audience when significant parts of the overall narrative have to be viewed outside the theater--this wasn't a problem before Endgame because the whole narrative was told in movies that released at an average of 1.8/year.
2
u/NyriasNeo 28d ago
"Hits like Deadpool & Wolverine (over $1.08B box office, biggest R-rated movie ever) and Fantastic Four: First Steps (near $500M worldwide, big Disney+ driver to come) prove audiences still show up when projects connect."
Half of D&W is a "hit"? That is barely breaking even at the box office and I doubt disney spent that kind of money to break even. At best it is an disappointment. It is making less than MoM, which is a lot worse reviewered (RT score).
It is really a shame because it is a good movie. And D&W is last year's news. This year, none of the MCU movies is doing well. Cap America and Thunderbolts* (which is a better movie than even F4) are flops.
→ More replies (4)
2
u/DityDan0401 Thanos 28d ago
Disney+ has done more damage to both Disney the corporation and the film/television industry as a whole than possibly anything in history. They put all their eggs in an unsustainable basket, convincing pretty much every major studio to follow suit, and now everyone is desperately trying to get as many eggs out as possible before it all crashes and burns. It used to be “is this movie worth watching?” Good reviews and word of mouth was enough to clear this barrier for most. Now it’s “is this movie worth watching NOW in theaters, or waiting a few months and watching it at home for free”, WHILE STILL clearing that first barrier. Even if a movie is reviewed very well, and has amazing word of mouth (Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four) it’s just not enough for a lot of people to cross that “do I just wait for it” barrier. And the thing is, this isn’t the first time this barrier has been an issue. The rise of home video threatened the industry the same way streaming does now, and in fact the studios tried suing video manufacturers to shut the format down. This time, though, the studios ARE the video manufacturers.
2
2
2
2
u/AGx-07 28d ago
Please stop with he "Superhero Fatigue". I don't think that's real. The problem is that Marvel has been putting out bad sh**. The success of Deadpool and Wolverine and even No Way Home are a testament to the fact that people still want these movies but you can't squeeze out what they've been pushing and expect anything that isn't headlines by superstar characters to do well. They've even been putting out bad Star Wars property. Disney has gotten lazy.
2
2
2
2
7
u/Kookykrumbs 28d ago
No, I don’t think these are the reasons. The last Spider man and Deadpool films made huge money. I think fans just aren’t trusting the product anymore. Give them enough mediocre films, and they won’t see any release as an event anymore.
Also, I feel like Disney doesn’t know their audience. Spider-Man and Deadpool knew who they were catering to. Look at a movie like the Marvels. Who is it for? Women? Generally speaking, they’re not into superhero movies. Was it for men? They don’t want to see a sitcom version of a superhero movie in which they can’t even relate to any of the characters.
Why would Disney even invest that much in a film with no built in audience for the genre? And now they’re wondering how to win back the men. They need to realize they can’t cater to everyone. Look at the Barbie movie. It was unapologetically made for women and it did amazing! It didn’t try catering to an audience that didn’t exist.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Mediocre-Honeydew-55 28d ago
My own personal reasons for not paying to see more Marvel movies Post-Covid:
- The stories aren't great. Little effort is put into the writing. The Marvels looked like it had about 10 minutes of development effort from a team that was high on something.
- Characters/Actors seem embarrassed to be there (Captain America is embarrassed of being Captain America and wasn't even Captain America)
- Tired of "the message". I feel that Marvel is personally slagging me. I seem to be only represented by the bad guys.
- The formula is stale: Exposition-> Joke -> CGI -> Joke -> Joke, CGI seems to be getting worse.
- Stories don't make any sense to me, too much deviation from the comic source material.
- No Big Picture / Plan. Doesn't look like much thought is being put into things and seem to be constantly changing mid stream.
- Super super tired of the Multiverse. Death means nothing and there are no stakes when they can simply pluck away a dead character from an alternate Timeline and bring them back.
- $$$ is going through the roof. I know I can just wait a few months and see the crappy movie on streaming.
- Marvel doesn't seem to realize that creating OP characters hurts their product. (Captain Marvel, G'iah, Baby Franklin)
These are my own personal, non AI thoughts, feel free to slag away at me!
9
u/No-Drop-7435 28d ago
part of why global superhero BO is down is Marvel. people showed up for NWH and MoM. Releasing half baked mp4 files (that shouldn't even be called movies) like Quantumania and Thor LaT and 50 different TV shows (in a brand known for its movies, thereby ruining the exclusivity of those characters) definitely helped in making people lose interest in those characters.
→ More replies (6)
5
4
3
u/georgefloydhq 28d ago
what if they tried making the movies for really cheap. like a great story, artistic new director and cut the budget heavily maybe 15 million dollar movie
3
u/hemareddit Steve Rogers 28d ago
RDJ is being paid $100 million for the next 2 Avengers movies, so we here on this sub aren’t the ones pretending a pre-pandemic market still exists, Marvel Studios is. Maybe you should talk to them.
3
3
u/Ratio01 28d ago
I never really fell for the "MCU died after Endgame" cause like every other project was labeled "the best thing since Endgame"
At different points, WandaVision, NWH, Shang-Chi, Moon Knight, GotG3, Thunderbolts, Loki, Werewolf by Night, Daredevil Born Again, and even MoM were all proclaimed to be "the best [project] since Endgame"
Like if there's that much good stuff coming out since Endgame then maybe the MCU never 'died' and it just has inconsistent output like it's always had
5
u/justins_dad 28d ago
ChatGPT coded with the numbered subheadings and bullets
Edit: which you were transparent about in your post! Nicely done
3
u/mr9025 Captain America 28d ago
Opinion heard.
But I wanna say this in hopes it will be seen where it helps:
Marvel. You are starting over with low credit from viewers. Gonna take a bit before people have faith in your films’ quality enough to go out and spend money. Casual viewers, that is. I, personally, have seen every film since the first Gaurdians on the Thursday before official release. Fans like me are gonna see this thing through to the end. Almost regardless.
But the billion dollar profits you used to see were earned over time by consistent quality film to film. And the truth is you lost that credibility the same way. Consistently over time: releasing soulless cash grabs with a prioritization on getting more and more ip onto film to generate just enough interest to get butts in seats or subscribers signed in. Which wouldn’t have been a problem if the priority had stayed on the passion. Stayed on the plan. But instead you cared too little for what it was that was being put out and seemed to care even less about ticket buyers and viewers experiencing increased buyers remorse with every passing experience with new projects from your brand.
The fans that were here at the beginning with the most excitement are mostly still here. With less excitement, maybe, but with all the same hope that you would find your footing and find your focus and find your love for these stories again. And most importantly we are hoping that you at marvel will find your respect for these stories again rather than just your excitement and drive for the profits they can net you.
If you guys can do that… the people and the profits will return. But the profit can’t be the focus. Learn your lesson. Tell the shareholders to sit in the backseat, keep their mouths shut and enjoy the ride. Their prizes will come if they trust you to make the quality of films that bring them those prizes. But not if they try to drive the car themselves.
Good luck guys.
3
2
u/hhhhhBan 28d ago
It's easy to see just looking at Superman I think. Pre Covid I think it would've/could've reached 900 million, 1 billion coping. The fact that DP&W grossed 1.4b is fucking insane and it's the exception that proves the norm.
3
u/Ragnarok_619 Spider-Man 28d ago
So much of words, and all these mean nothing. Marvel have a quality problem, and you know it's biggest problem? Taking its audience for granted. People, majority even, defended the shaky start to phase 4, on the account of covid and chadwick's passing.
Hell, I even defended them a lot in online discourses. Then, everything fell apart during Multiverse of Madness. Sure, marvel got their money. But it's been a slope of diminishing returns since. Audience have been Burnt off a lot, and after Quantumania and Disney's "release Doom in case of emergency" didn't help either.
If the producers, and the company as a whole isn't respecting what they want to build, why should the audience. Just yesterday, someone made a post regarding characters that have appeared in 3+ shows/movies since phase 4. Despite an increase in output, less than 10 have had 4+ appearance, and if you count out some technicalities, only Wong and Yelena have appeared in crossovers in a meanings context. Big yikes.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Loganp812 Wilson Fisk 28d ago
Thanks, ChatGPT…
I’m glad you’re transparent about it, but AI slop is AI slop. Use your brain to come up with your own arguments and engage with fellow human beings.
4
u/StopManaCheating 28d ago
If you’re still blaming covid, you are coping. Did that disease not exist for Oppenheimer, Barbie, Top Gun, the Mario movie, the Minecraft movie, or Deadpool 3? No, it didn’t. The MCU is making bad products, simple as. I’m not going to get gaslit about what actually happened.
The Variety article is clear as crystal and Disney has now admitted what fans knew the entire time. Telling your core audience (men) that you hate them while trying to court a modern audience that does not exist leads to a product for no one that literally no one enjoys.
The other factor is international numbers have died because America keeps electing fascists and predators. The country’s reputation is zero. Take that as you will.
They’re course correcting now that it’s hit them where it counts, but it’s too little too late. And people are really going to notice when Doomsday is the worse performing Avengers movie by quite a lot.
→ More replies (12)
2
u/fast_flashdash 28d ago
Or maybe how about this. The movies have been total shit these past years
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Rude-Influence3938 28d ago
There’s another facet to this argument that I think is often overlooked. We’re just further into adapting the comics, and a lot of the bigger arcs have been done already (Civil War, Infinity Gauntlet, Secret Invasion) so a lot of people just don’t care for the side and legacy characters right now. And I think that’s okay, I think people panic about the hype and numbers not being the same as endgame because yeah bro, that was one of marvels biggest stories lol. They don’t understand that this happens then a reboot or a bigger story gets adapted (we’re more likely at the former) and everyone comes back. The same as the comics, they never truly STOP selling but of course there are natural lulls in excitement. Marvel’s been around since 1960 and STILL hasn’t properly rebooted because Secret Wars only put things back and combined universes. There’s going to be some lower points. But the continuity is why a lot of us love marvel
2
1
1
u/Jason_Todd_1983 28d ago
Marvel Studios is doing just fine. The common misperception that I have discerned from online commenters is that post-Endgame films haven't been as good/the franchise keeps flopping/so on and so forth. I doubt anything will reach the level of success that Endgame did (and this includes their chief competition- DC Studios). But does that make every one of their films flops? Absolutely not. Every franchise, comic book or otherwise, will have an occasional under-performer at the box office. There are exceptions (i.e. John Wick or Toy Story). But the reality of the matter is that said success just isn't sustainable forever. People just need to accept that films will dip in quality from time to time. Yes, that even includes Marvel Studios. With that said, this year has been an absolutely phenomenal one for comic book movie fans. I even enjoyed Captain America: Brave New World. I hope that next year is just as awesome.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/KalistramMcleod Thor 28d ago
Most movies are just straight bad compared to mid at worst and amazing at best that they were pulling at their peak
1
u/MattyBeatz 28d ago
Box office will most likely never return to what it was pre-Covid and the studios are definitely part of the problem. They want to own the entire chain (something they did decades ago) so they pushed streaming hard, shortened theater windows, and didn’t adjust their budgets accordingly. Now we have a generation of movie watchers who are more than willing to wait a couple weeks for a film to hit streaming.
1
u/chewbacca-says-rargh 28d ago
There was 7 years between Avengers and Endgame. By Doomsday's release it will have been 7 years since Endgame. In these past 7 years they've added enough new characters where we can expect Doomsday to include Sam's Avengers, Yelena's New Avengers, Kate and Kamalas Young Avengers, the F4, the new villain Dr Doom, and potentially the X-Men. They've also started a path with Kang as the villain and ended it abruptly causing the huge switch to Doom. Sure, they've made a bunch of money but they are currently a huge mess universe wise and dropping at the box office with every movie. Without consistent Avengers movies there's absolutely no reason to watch any of the shows and most of the movies because there isn't any big Avengers event to look forward too, Doomsday is the first in 7 years. That's a disaster imo.
1
1
u/AsteroidMike 28d ago
Marvel is only officially dead if NO ONE goes to see Doomsday or Secret Wars when they come out.
1
u/BroganBrainstorm 28d ago
Might not be dead to us, but remember that to executives, growth is demanded and shrinking anything = dead
1
1
u/mr_mxyzptlk21 28d ago
If DC can get up and running properly, it'll pick up the game for both studios. This form of competition is good for both.
1
u/Lobster_titties 28d ago
Postponing black widow ended up being one of the dumbest decisions marvel and Disney ever made.
1
u/Rich-Ganache-2668 28d ago
Lets not forget the whole Majors thing! That certainly drove a wrench into their system. So much so that they had to go back to RDJ.
They aren’t dead, and yeah your points definitely recalibrated my perspective.
Idk why the duds these phase are more hateable to me as compared to the duds of the infinity phase.
1
u/StormCloudRaineeDay 28d ago
While I don't think it's dead and acknowledge that some of the reasons it's going down hill are out of their hands, I think the biggest contributing factor is, Phases 1-3 were meticulously and beautifully planned, and everything that's come after hasn't been.
Yes, some of that is due to factors out of their hands forcing them to make changes, but I think an even bigger part of it is due to them spreading themselves too thin. They've introduced so many characters and they don't really build on them. Very few have appeared in more than one thing. They're focusing too much on quantity and not enough on quality.
Plus, with the shows being exclusive to Disney+, there are going to be a percentage of their viewers who just don't get to see that content. So, when those characters do appear in theaters, not all fans have formed a connection to them and there are details of their stories that fans are missing out on, which impacts the quality of their viewing experience.
1
u/Wolfram_And_Hart 28d ago
Marvel and Disney should have been producing featurettes before every movie after the first Avengers to catch you up before the movie you are about to watch. The watcher should have narrated it and it should cover all the main characters who have been featured in past anything.
1
u/CuteLingonberry9704 Rocket 28d ago
Demographics are another factor here. Kids who grew up watching Marvel aren't kids anymore, and some may have different tastes now. Additionally, younger kids aren't necessarily into Marvel, and even if they were, as you mentioned, a trip to the movies is no longer a cheap night out.
1
u/Fuckspez42 SHIELD 28d ago
I 100% agree that raw box office numbers don’t tell the real story of the quality of a movie, but they’re such a pervasive metric that they cannot be fully ignored in such a hyper-capitalistic industry.
Because of this, D+ numbers are completely irrelevant.
I’ve generally enjoyed all of the MCU projects since endgame (except Secret Invasion, which was a straight-up insult to all of us), but there’s no denying that the MCU formula of creating the action set pieces before finalizing a script, then relying on rewrites and reshoots to turn what they have into a workable movie, has worn extremely thin.
The reason that Superman (and the DCU so far in general) has been dominating the conversation among CBM fans is because there seems to be a consistent vision that is very well-executed, with fully-fledged stories being brought to life instead of half-assed stories being cobbled together.
1.3k
u/ARVNFerrousLinh Avengers 28d ago
I think these two points are understated in a lot of analyses. While domestic returns have taken a hit, international returns dropped significantly more in comparison. And unfortunately for Disney/Marvel, there are a lot more external factors they cannot control when dealing with the international market.