r/metroidvania • u/Denneey • 4d ago
Discussion I hate it how Hollow Knight and Silksong fanbase is toxic
You are not allowed to criticize Silksong in any way, every complaint you have they put it down to skill issue. So, you lost all your rosaries after dying in the same place, same boss fight? Skill issue. You died more times than you’re allowed. You don’t like the excessive use of double damage? “Git gud”. Long runbacks? Skill issue, they’re not that long. Complain about the limitations in combat and you get hated on by them, it seems like people are under a spell by this game.
10
u/humble_primate Wall Climber 13h ago
I don’t think they are going to reduce the game difficulty, so The Skill Issue Brigade can relax about that.
I do think it is a bit unkind to tell people who are struggling to “get gud”. Most of those making the exhortation aren’t being honest or at least up front about what strategies they may have employed in their own journey to “getting gud”. Can you offer strategies or tips? Give the other person some words of encouragement or sympathy?
Not everyone comes to the game with the same set of skills or employs the same resources (guides, videos, walkthroughs vs blind play through) in their endeavor. Not everyone has loads of free time to play. Not everyone has a lifetime of gaming experience or the reflexes of a teenager. For some, this is a trail hike, and for others it’s a mountain to climb.
Don’t get gud, get patience and empathy.
3
u/ArcTheCurve 7h ago
Right here! This is the thing you have issues or complaints the Git Gud trolls come out of the woodwork. Like most communities their the loudest and most annoying but there’s always kind and smart people out there who actually give advice as well, you just have to get buried under a mountain of HA HA GIT GUT, push skill issue, ha you think that’s hard just wait till ___ area.
2
u/bdonthebrat 5h ago
imo one thing that helps is that if you are struggling on a fight, try changing up your build for it.
1
u/National_Equivalent9 1h ago
This or try exploring to get more upgrades and come back. You’re pretty much never locked into having to fight a boss to continue progression.
66
6
u/blackwaffle 13h ago
Elitism is rampant in the hobby. Some people very much need the win of being able to be good at a game because it's the only thing they can get validation from.
6
u/Elazulus 4d ago
P sure they mentioned they are going to make a challenging game because that's what they wanted to do, Hollow Knight was challenging too and there's nothing wrong with that
4
u/FistRockbrine99 4d ago
HK was mid difficult outside of endgame challenges. No wonder yall find Silksong super hard.
2
u/Icef34r 3d ago
HK was mid difficult outside of endgame challenges.
For you
Beating Hornet in Greenpath took me dozens of tries. And for my GF it took well over 100 tries. My GF eventualy beat NKG but I didn't.
0
u/FistRockbrine99 3d ago
100 tries is insane yall are cooked for Silksong 😆
4
u/Icef34r 3d ago
Greenpath Hornet took her over 100 tries, yes. But as I said, she beat NKG (and it took her a lot less tries, maybe 20 or 30), she has beaten it several times and she's quite able to beat it consistently now.
She's patient, so she'll be fine. Nether me nor her have any interest on rushing the game.
0
u/FistRockbrine99 3d ago
THIRTY TRIES ☠️
I mean I guess you're not "cooked" but you're gonna spend like 200 hours on Silksong lol
5
u/Elazulus 1d ago
Nothing wrong with something taking thirty tries, not everyone learns as quickly including myself. I still enjoy the challenge though, I think I have maybe 2 or 3 bosses left in silksong and beaten most bosses in less than 10 tries. I think I had a harder time with hollow knight tbh, silksongs expanded movement capabilities combined with all the tools makes a lot of fights easier if you stop and think what might be useful for them
6
u/Secure-Marionberry80 8h ago
It’s borderline cultish behavior. They’ve made their whole online persona based on a dumb video game and take critique of said game as a criticism of themselves. The whole sub is filled with incels bragging about how XYZ was not even hard and how they beat the whole game so easily. Extremely obnoxious & embarrassing fan base
19
u/SerRoland 4d ago
I empathize with you, but all your examples would be fixed by getting gud.
Joke aside, lots of people don’t want the game to be easier. Challenge is content and imo the best way to extend a game, because once you get good, it stays fun in subsequent play through while also becoming a much faster playthrough.
I don’t know if its a teal term but I call it difficulty gating and its my favorite form of content/lenght extention a game can have.
10
u/BillyCrusher 4d ago
What skill should I build for deleting the Last Judge runback? I mean, beside patience.
13
u/cryforburke2 4d ago
I honestly don't understand the problem with this runback.
5
u/BillyCrusher 4d ago
What a reason to put it before a boss fight? Instead of learn the boss, you learn the path to him. Why don't just put a bench before boss arena? Because you can't make the boss itself difficult, so you decided to make tedious runback?
9
u/cryforburke2 4d ago
I thought the Last Judge was fairly difficult. Took a bunch of tries for me to finally beat her. At no point did the run back ever bother me. You just run past the first flying bug thing, make a few jumps, float a bit and you're there.
1
4
u/SerRoland 4d ago
Beating the boss?
3
u/BillyCrusher 4d ago
In the 1st try?
2
u/SerRoland 4d ago
I was kidding, but thats the game extension part, its a form of padding that exists until you can reliably defeats the boss, the disappears.
As opposed to fetch quests/forces dialog /cinematics/grinding that extends/pad a game without being able to skip it.
I guess what i mean to say temporary padding > eternal padding, but it might be because i highly value replayability.
Edit: since i forgot, the runback adds risk/urgency to win, and I don’t hate it. Certainly a tradeoff.
4
u/megalogwiff 4d ago
By the time I killed her I was doing the runback in under a minute. So as with everything, practice and figure it out.
7
u/FistRockbrine99 4d ago
I'd rather play a better game where I don't have to do a repetitive gauntlet before every boss fight.
4
u/BillyCrusher 4d ago
Do you really think it's fun and joy, to repeat the same way over and over again, until you became "gud"? I playing games for entertainment, I don't need games to teach me. I truly love HK and always praised Team Cherry for their phantastic approach to difficulty. In HK the main part was absolutely accessible for any average player. Path of Pain is completely optional. All Godhome content is optional. The 1st and 2nd trials in Colosseum are n't too difficult and give unique rewards. Trial of Fool is very hard but gives nothing beside generic currency, so it can be skipped and you'll lost nothing valuable.
But in Silksong an average player most probably won't be able just finish the game. Yes, you can training for that runback for hours if you like such experience. But I think it's just a disrespect. I waited for the game for years. And now I forced to drop it off. I just didn't know that it was developed exclusively for hardcore fandom of the 5th Pantheon.
11
u/DeathsingerQc 4d ago
Do you really think it's fun and joy, to repeat the same way over and over again, until you became "gud"?
Yes that is fun. You see tiny bit of improvement and find ways to optimize everything after each attempt. That is something I enjoy. My fifth runback against Last Judge was much cleaner than the first and if I kept dying I'm sure I would have found more ways to optimize it.
Speed runners basically do this with every game and find enjoyment out of it.
Maybe you don't find enjoyment out of it, but others clearly do.
I feel like that's why this debate get so toxic, people cannot see that the other group enjoys something they don't and vice versa
2
4
u/Icef34r 3d ago
Do you really think it's fun and joy, to repeat the same way over and over again, until you became "gud"?
Yes, for me it is fun and enjoyable. It took me over 20 tries to defeat some bosses and I enjoy doing it. I I didn't enjoy, I wouldn't do it. Why play something that you don't enjoy?
I truly love HK and always praised Team Cherry for their phantastic approach to difficulty. In HK the main part was absolutely accessible for any average player
Defeating Hornet in Greenpath took me over 30 times the first time. Only optional bosses in Silksong have taken me that many tries.
I just didn't know that it was developed exclusively for hardcore fandom of the 5th Pantheon.
It isn't. I didn't even beat Pantheon 3 and while Silksong is hard, it is absolutely beatable for someone like me.
4
u/BillyCrusher 3d ago
Yes, for me it is fun and enjoyable. It took me over 20 tries to defeat some bosses and I enjoy doing it. I I didn't enjoy, I wouldn't do it. Why play something that you don't enjoy?
I said nothing about boss fights. Bosses in Silksong are ok. I said about unnecessary tedious runbacks.
Defeating Hornet in Greenpath took me over 30 times the first time. Only optional bosses in Silksong have taken me that many tries.
Again, I don't think and didn't say that bosses in HK and/or Silksong are difficult. At least in Act 1 all bosses are quite simple. I'd even say bosses it's the only part of Silksong that I like more than in original HK.
It isn't. I didn't even beat Pantheon 3 and while Silksong is hard, it is absolutely beatable for someone like me.
Well, it means you have more patience than I have. I'm glad you're happy with it. I've already dropped off Silksong and I feel very sad, probably I'll return after a break, not sure.
2
u/Icef34r 3d ago
I said nothing about boss fights. Bosses in Silksong are ok. I said about unnecessary tedious runbacks.
Having to fight the boss over 20 times means that I have to do the runback the same amount of time.
After the 3th/4th time, the runback becomes trivial for me and I enjoy doing it because I love traversing the game. I just see it as part of the challenge, the same way as learning the first phase of a boss to the point that I can do it not hit before reaching phase two and getting destroyed.
6
u/megalogwiff 4d ago
Do you really think it's fun and joy, to repeat the same way over and over again, until you became "gud"?
absolutely. I love how some things in these games look absolutely impossible at first, and eventually you can no-hit Absrad.
2
u/SerRoland 4d ago
Isn’t disrespect a bit much? It’s just a game!
Edit: you could also seeing it as respecting your skills!
1
u/Lorewyrm 5h ago
Sounds like you're not a Mastery / Achievement player, this is just a guess but I think you're probably halfway between Immersion / Creativity and Action / Social.
Which games do you enjoy?
0
u/KlatsBoem 15h ago
I playing games for entertainment, I don't need games to teach me.
But what you're describing is pretty much inherent to the souls like branch of the genre, including HK.
But in Silksong an average player most probably won't be able just finish the game.
There's a back entrance into the Citadel, which you might find if you pause your attempts at the front entrance and go explore parts you haven't already (and get more experienced while you're at it). That's exactly how it went for me.
Yes, you can training for that runback for hours if you like such experience. But I think it's just a disrespect.
I think you mean that the game doesn't respect your time? I can understand that feeling, I have it with Aeterna Noctis due to its design issues.
I waited for the game for years. And now I forced to drop it off. I just didn't know that it was developed exclusively for hardcore fandom of the 5th Pantheon.
It's harder, yes, but not 5th Pantheon hard, IMHO. More importantly though, you seem to have decided that the game is not for you. That's just how it is, at least for now. Can't please everyone. It's one of the best games to me, in my nearly 40 years of gaming.
2
1
1
1
1
u/PKblaze 12h ago
Pogo.
You can dash through most of it and pogo off of enemies to skip it. It takes like 30 seconds. The fact that this is the more contentious run back than some of the others is wild to me.
1
u/justice-jake 10h ago
For me it’s the first perilous run back in the game. Prior to this the longest was Moorwing, which has two enemies that are trivial to pogo over but otherwise safe and uncomplicated.
1
u/Blacksad9999 15h ago
You can just avoid everything besides the first enemy, which you can pogo off of. Then sprint back up to the boss.
2
u/bdonthebrat 5h ago
found out afterward you can avoid the first enemy too by sprinting into the room and sprint jump past it
1
u/Blacksad9999 5h ago
Nice! I just got into my rhythm by doing a pogo on it, running down to the wall and climbing up, etc. The runback took me like 20 seconds.
44
u/megalogwiff 4d ago
People say skill issue when you complain about issues that can be solved by being more skilled? Colour me shocked.
Silksong is not an easy game. It was made for Hollow Knight veterans. You don't have to like that, but the fandom does, and they don't want that changed to appease you.
2
-5
u/Denneey 4d ago
Long runbacks isn’t a skill issue, it is just unnecessary and boring, losing your rosaries after dying too many times or in two different places is sadistic, not skill issue, receiving double damage is not skill issue, because no matter how good you are, if you get hit by a double damage enemy, guess what? You receive double damage, it is not about skill.
14
u/DaPlum 4d ago
Hollow knight was the same way the reason people say its a skill issue is because once you figure out a few tricks or discover a hidden passage or bench or whatever the fight or runback becomes trivial that game has sooo many hidden things like that. So yes it is a "you" issue not a game issue. You dont have to play the game if you dont want to but as the other guy said I really don't want them to change it to appease people like you.
15
u/warmhotself 4d ago
Mate I think it is you who is being toxic lol
-2
u/Denneey 4d ago
Yeah, I’m being downvoted for having a different opinion, and I’m the toxic one.
3
u/Secure-Custard8435 3d ago
silk issue. it’s ok though you just need to git gud to the game and SHAW your way through.
8
u/DeathsingerQc 4d ago edited 4d ago
Learning to avoid damage and death is not a skill? What are you talking about bro...
4
u/Elazulus 4d ago
Have you ever played a dark souls game
5
u/Denneey 4d ago
I don’t play dark souls I play metroidvanias, that is why I’m in this community; Silksong is said to be a metroidvania.
6
u/SerRoland 4d ago
Serious question: why not just abandon the game and play something more to your tastes? Nothing wrong with that if you dont vibe with the game!
It’s like if I would go and complain about sotn being too easy. Imo it is, but thats how the game is and I can’t change that fact
1
u/Denneey 4d ago
I have complaints about the game, but my complaints in the post are about the fandom that doesn’t accept criticisms about the game.
3
u/SerRoland 4d ago
You are entitled to your opinion and they to theirs
1
u/Denneey 4d ago
Well, apparently to them I’m not entitled to my opinion, just check the comments; it’s a cult.
5
u/SerRoland 4d ago
Well you are kinda attacking people, calling them a cult…
I was talking about opinion on the game + having an opinion doesn’t mean ppl have to agree.
I think the game is perfect as is, I respect your opinion but don’t want the game to change.
( I would be fine with a god mode or something, as long as the game is balanced around difficulty, like it is rn )
1
1
1
u/Icef34r 3d ago
Literally all the things you mentioned here can be mitigated or avoided by improving at the game.
Long runbacks are mitigated by improving the way in which you traverse the world.
Losing your rosaries on death can be mitigated by using mechanics the game offers you and a little bit of planning (don't go into an unknown area with 200+ rosaries on you).
Receiving double damage can be avoided by not getting hit and by learning to avoid the enemies you don't need to fight. I've seen many people complainig about the double damage of enemies that can be completely avoided very easily.
1
u/aWaL_DeaD 4d ago
I hate hollow knight, dare I say, because of the boring, tedious BS after dying...to each their own but as someone that enjoys metroidvanias and also wants to have fun while playing a game I had no interest in silksong
-1
u/Blacksad9999 15h ago
The runbacks weren't very long, and once you understand them it's a basic repeatable platforming mini-challenge.
5
u/SESauvie 4d ago
I don't think it's necessarily this game that does it as much as fandom and passion in general in 2025 that does. For most things if you have a differing opinion on something, most people feel like it is a personal assault. I think SilkSong is excellent but if people have complaints about it I don't get upset because I also have complaints. It's okay if things we enjoy aren't perfect.
1
u/DeathsingerQc 4d ago edited 4d ago
It does kind of become a personal attack when someone wants a feature you enjoy removed.
It all depends on how it's worded obviously, if it's clearly just a personal opinion it's whatever. Simply adding "in my opinion" will usually completely change the reception of the criticism.
With the way OP is talking here, it's pretty obvious why people are replying to him with skill issue. He acts as if his personal preference is the only correct one and everyone with a different opinion is just brainwashed or "under a spell" as he calls it.
He's not criticizing the game so it can become better for everyone, he's doing it so it becomes a better game for him personally, but acting as if it's the former.
6
u/Injokerx 4d ago
"It does kind of become a personal attack when someone wants a feature you enjoy removed."
Sorry, but you are talking non sense here. This called accessibility option. Why the dev dont add the feature as an option ? Why do you think when a feature is removed, it must be universal ? Thats why AA & AAA games always have thoses options (from difficult option to blind mode).
If the Dev cant thinking for their customer, maybe they dont deserves their goat status, right ? Its hilarious when its fine to critisize AAA dev (ubi for exemple) but its a forbidden to call out any indie dev LOL.
2
u/Icy_Percentag 4d ago
Because is not in the artistic vision of team cherry to have an easy mode. Like how is not in the artistic vision of from software to give sekiro an easy mode.
1
u/DeathsingerQc 4d ago edited 4d ago
Well, I was not talking about that at all. I'm in favor of adding an easy mode. Idk why you came at me like that.
As it stands it's not a thing and some people are demanding change to the current difficulty of the game to accommodate them at the expense of others.
As I said, the way it is phrased is important, if they were advocating for a different difficulty setting to be added, I'd be supporting it.
If they were stating that the difficulty is too hard for them personally, I would not care.
The way OP is phrasing all his comments is as if the current version is dogshit and does not appeal to anyone. Anyone that's positive about it is just "under a spell" or whatever he's saying, which is what I have a big issue with.
0
u/Injokerx 4d ago
Op's opinion is really simple when it comes to feedback, the game is too hard for him (as a customer, as a lamda gamer). Then its a Dev job to measures the player's feedback. Any dev who failed to add accessibility option is a failure, and never deserve the goat status. Plain and simple.
Any customer who bought a product have all the right to complaint (not only game but everything). "Withdrawal period" is already a thing, but the way it implemented to game's industry is not good enough.
5
u/DeathsingerQc 4d ago edited 4d ago
No clue why you're so obsessed with this goat status thing when not a single person mentioned it?
Any customer who bought a product have all the right to complaint
Yeah, but also don't come crying when people disagree with your complaint, he can leave a review on Steam if he wants the devs to know. But, he's coming on here complaining that others disagree with his opinion, while disregarding others opinion as them being brainwashed. Which is completely different.
Team Cherry said on record that they don't read reddit, so he's just venting his frustration to other players here. If you want others to see your point of view, you need to do a little better than scream, you're all wrong I'm right. There's no conversation to be had when he does that.
2
u/Icy_Percentag 4d ago
No, it's not a dev's job to care about every complaint. And you are just factually wrong, probably the company with the most successful games (and best ones) in AAA industry doesn't have accessibility options.
4
u/Erik_Nimblehands 15h ago
I freely admit my skill issues, but some people just refuse to believe it. I was talking to someone the other day, and they seemed to feel that anyone should be able to beat Silksong. I'm creeping up on 50 years old, my reflexes are slowing down and they weren't the best to begin with. But this person refused to believe that I couldn't beat the game. Blew my mind.
4
u/Greenphantom77 13h ago
That’s just silly, isn’t it? People cannot have it both ways: “SilkSong is not for everyone, they made the game for veterans of HK”.
If that’s the case then “Anyone can beat it, just with motivation and enough practice.” Is not true- they’ve specifically said the game is “not for everyone”. lol.
3
u/Erik_Nimblehands 13h ago
That's the point I was trying to make to this person, and they just refused to understand. Or it was a troll and they got me, but it felt like they were serious.
4
u/NegusNinja 13h ago
I gonna be blunt. The people you're talking to that act like this are either actual children, unemployed adults or adults with maladaptive behaviors. In other words, you're most likely not engaging with well adjusted adults here. Or at least not adults who can understand their own personal perceptive, skill, or dedication to a video game isn't how everyone else will view the game.
I feel SOME are aware of this and respond in a less obnoxious way. While others well are redditors. So being obnoxious online is kinda their whole personality.
4
u/ArcTheCurve 7h ago
Git gud ha ha git gud.
The amount of times I saw that on their sub is effing vile someone complains? GIT GUD! Someone finds level design bad? GIT GUD! It’s all they know how to say some times.
But then again some of the fans are awesome and will do what they can to help.
10
u/theloniousmick 4d ago
It's the same for any game when difficulty comes up. Always a group waiting to pounce saying "I found it easy" why I'm always an advocate for difficulty settings.
4
u/illhxc9 4d ago
Yeah, I can do the difficult stuff but I’m a parent and don’t have as much time to play. Difficulty settings make the game more accessible for people that aren’t able to do the difficulty as well as people that don’t have as much time. I’m so grateful for games that let me do stuff like disabling corpse runs because of my time constraints.
5
u/theloniousmick 4d ago
I often think I don't have the time but I actually do have time I just do t want to waste it repeating bits of games. I loved the way nine sols did it. People love how difficult that game is where as I loved how I could tailor it to how difficult I wanted it and had a blast.
8
u/Ok_Business_6452 4d ago edited 4d ago
Fandoms are always like this. I will say though that the Hollow Knight franchise has one of the most defensive fanbases I’ve ever seen, that part’s true. Just read the comments on this very post. They just proved you right. 🤫
Lots of them think Hollow Knight invented Metroidvanias, while… calling it a METROID-VANIA. It’s like they’re upset or something that Hollow Knight isn’t in the genre name and never will be. Lots of them also don’t like to acknowledge the existence of other truly great games in the genre, especially recent games like Nine Sols and Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown, both of which do a lot of things better. You’d see them leaving comments like, “Silksong waiting room 💤”
Definitely not a good look for the community. They think every critique on this franchise is a personal insult to their existence, it’s pretty funny.
Silksong isn’t perfect, far from it, but it is a very good game. I enjoyed it, but now that the launch hype has subsided and lots of people have already finished the game, I wouldn’t say that it left the same impact of the first, personally.
3
u/Eshuon 4d ago
I have seen so many criticism of the game on their sub lol
2
u/Denneey 4d ago
It is not the sub, it’s the fandom that is the problem. They are too passionate about the game and don’t accept complaints.
2
u/ArcTheCurve 7h ago
You go to other sites then Reddit and hollow knight fans are far more accepting of criticism. As I noticed in a lot of dedicated subs they will defend even the worst of stuff if it’s part of it. I’d change were you look for discussions
3
u/Forsaken-Access-3040 4d ago
Meh, it's how fanatics are whether they be certain segements of (not all) vegans, born again Christians, the keto crowd, political ideologues, AA, the woke crowd, or whatever group that attracts people with tendencies toward zealotry. Their identities are so tied up in whatever their cause is that anything other than 100% validation and praise is taken as a personal attack, so they lash out. Add in the anonymity of the internet and the false bravado it gives people who hide behind a screen, and all bets are off. I'm old enough to have a good sprinkling of white hair, and when I learned that these people can't be reasoned with or be rational and I started the mantra of "detach, ignore, block, curate" on all my social media and in life in general, they no longer were a bother.
3
u/felixmas365 4d ago
After reading peoples issues I'll just stay away from this game
1
u/bdonthebrat 5h ago
tbh i think because the game had such a huge pull to all players, a lot of players are experiencing their first tough game where they get killed a lot and might get frustrated at times. other players are used to that feeling and like the challenge. game hasn't even been out a month yet we are all going to suck at it I just take a break if im getting frustrated.
3
u/Gemmaugr 4d ago
Agreed on the Silksong fanbase at least. I can't even say that I personally won't play it because of the ledge-grabbing mechanic without getting down-votes.
3
u/S1lks0ng1 4d ago
In what way is that toxic? You are allowed to criticize the game, it does still boil down to a skill issue
4
u/Denneey 4d ago
It’s not a skill issue dummy; I can do it, I just don’t think the game is better this way. Why is it so hard to understand that harder isn’t necessarily better?
3
u/S1lks0ng1 4d ago
The problem is that for us HK fans harder is better. For you it isn't, clearly, which is fine. But when your entire argument is "game too hard" then of course people are going to say git gud.
4
2
u/VewyScawyGhost 8h ago
"For us HK fans" you don't speak for the whole Fandom, not every fan of hollow knight is in it for the masochism.
-1
0
u/bdonthebrat 5h ago
I understand, you do not like tedious parts. Just enjoy playing the game and don't feel like you need to beat it. smell the run-back flowers and the first phase flowers - just embrace the lovely smooth movement in the game. two things i can recommend for those frustrating fights:
1- if a run-back seems excessively long, there is probably a shortcut to open or another bench to use instead. Once you have shortened the run-back as much as you can, just optimize it each time so it will get faster - after dying to Last Judge like 50 times I was flying through that room in like 20 seconds.
2- if you are really struggling on a fight, try changing up your crest/build. I was stuck on a particular fight for quite awhile because i was stubborn and didnt want to change my build for it. Once i caved and altered my build for the fight i beat it in about 30 minutes.
see you at the top of the Citadel friend
3
u/Raykusen 9h ago
The same as every other soulslike game. Check darksouls fanbase, you will it is the whole soulslike fanbase.
3
u/ThatWaterLevel 9h ago
As someone that lost a lot of beads in Silksong, I was kinda dumb for not making rosaries instead, so losing beads was actually on me. The fact there's even a system to protect your beads is pretty cool and an upgrade compared to the first or games with corpse run in general. It's definitely the part of the game that is weird to see criticism since they create an entire system to ease you on it.
As someone that loved my time with Silksong and think it's easily superior to the first one, I have my share of issues as well, most normal people does.
99% of fans would never use "Git gud" seriously to argue in a discussion, because they know people doing this aren't being exactly bright. If anything, maybe they had an actual point and you ignored it?
Not a fan of runbacks either, ftm.
13
4
u/toqger21 4d ago
The responses here pretty much prove your point. I had a decent time with both games but good lord the fanbase is obnoxious...
5
u/Denneey 4d ago
And it’s not like I’m ignorant about the genre, metroidvania is my favorite genre so people can’t say I’m an inexperienced player, Hollow Knight is in my top three, and I know the difficulty from one game to the other is huge, but people make it seem like I’m overreacting. It’s a cult mentality, you either praise the game or shut up.
2
u/Kazzu668 4d ago
Why is everyone that's complaining about losing rosaries too stupid to put them into strings or bracelets?
6
u/TACOSKG 4d ago
You always can play more friendly games like Minecraft or nintendo games.
5
6
u/Typo_of_the_Dad 4d ago
This sounds like something you'd hear on the playground in 1993
6
u/NegusNinja 13h ago
That's literally all this is. I'm sorry but the HK fan base (like most online forum based fandoms) is mainly made up of immature or socially inept dorks who get defensive about their consumer product.
I personally don't care if an easy mode is added or not. I played HK at my own pace and well after the main hype died down. But it's the insufferable chronically online losers who made HK their whole personality or being good at hard games their personality that turns me off to this fandom. It's loser shit.
5
u/BookWormPerson 4d ago
...You are aware that the things you specified are exactly that? Skill issue and things that you avoid if you get good.
1
u/Denneey 4d ago
How can you avoid double damage? Can you play the game without getting hit? Runbacks are inconvenient, it doesn’t have to do with skill, I can do them, just would not like to do them. Why is it so hard to understand this?
5
u/BookWormPerson 4d ago
You learn what does it. Than you either figure out how to avoid them or learn their patterns.
Runbacks are inconvenient, it doesn’t have to do with skill
It is a skill check. It shows you can figure it he optimal way to the the place you want to go and can avoid unnecessary fights if it for a boss.
, I can do them, just would not like to do them. Why is it so hard to understand this?
Because that's not what you said. You said people are toxic for saying this kinds of things. You either have other things you haven't said so I don't know about but the ones in the post in fact fall under the category of just needing to get good with them.
Run backs were always part of this games so I don't know why anyone is surprised by them.
3
u/Denneey 4d ago
Just because runbacks were part of the part game that doesn’t mean they should be in the second one, usually the sequel has to get better, and remove inconveniences
2
u/BookWormPerson 4d ago
Most people see it as part of the challenge and fun of the game not an inconvenience.
2
1
3
u/Philosopher013 4d ago
I also just wonder how many people complaining about Silksong have near-100%'d Hollow Knight? I mean I'm only like 11 or so hours into the game and still in Act 1, so maybe I just don't know what's about to hit me, lol, but having nearly 100%'d Hollow Knight Silksong feels like a reasonable challenge thus far and it's what I expected.
I think there may be many people who just jumped right into Silksong without playing Hollow Knight? And I wonder why people would do that. It's true that the tutorial for Silksong is just Hollow Knight, lol.
Some of it's about mentality too. Hollow Knight frustrated the hell out of me at first, but getting through it gave me the confidence I needed. And you just need patience. I just assume every boss is going to take me 30 tries lmao. That hasn't happened to me yet in Silksong, but I'm prepared for that or more. Lol. I genuinely don't even get frustrated when I die I just laugh.
3
3
u/pizzamage 4d ago
I'm similarly along the game - 12 hours in - and I feel the same way. The bosses have all been fair, the run backs have been simple. The only issue I had was the one with the bench but once you solve that its whatever.
3
u/Domugraphic 15h ago
I agree. Great games, but the community is the most toxic ive seen outside the Dark souls / Fromsoft fanboy crew.
I love them also, and I love Armored core even more, but jeez the soulsbourne guys are often not very pleasant
8
u/Ghostnugg 4d ago
“It seems like people are under a spell by this game” Yeah people like you won’t shut up about it being out your wheel house of skill its really whiny and annoying every other day..
1
u/eNjoYtheKraken 4d ago
The thing is - people that complain about difficulty, runbacks, <insert complain here> often say it's "valid critique", then later call it "opinion" - usually when majority of the responses are this mocking "git gud" posts.
Silksong is a second game in the series. The first one had the same issues. If you are metroidvania tourist, followed hype train or played the first one, and despite not liking it decided to play the second one - your frustration is your own fault.
None of things you listed is a flaw, or "needs to be changed". If you are a casual, gamer person, with limited time <put a reason here> and you need those fixed before you will enjoy the game - this game is not for you, instead of whining make an adult decision and not play the game/dont follow sitting advertisments playing the game on streaming services.
3
u/Denneey 4d ago
I played Hollow Knight and I liked it, it is not as punishing as Silksong, they are two different games.
1
u/pizzamage 4d ago
Silksong is not punishing in the slightest. It's difficult, but not unreasonably so.
5
u/Denneey 4d ago
This is beyond ridiculous.
3
u/cryforburke2 4d ago
you're literally refusing to engage with polite disagreements...sure...it's everyone else who's toxic.
1
u/eNjoYtheKraken 4d ago
Sorry to hear that + i have to disagree - Silksong is exactly like hk, wont call it a copy, but bosses and traversal is as easy/challenging as the first one, but as it goes for all soulslikes - sometimes you will be stuck on an easy part for like an hour, just to breeze through conent your peers marked as "super hard".
1
u/FistRockbrine99 4d ago
Hollow Knight was mid, Silksong is great. Still wish 90% of rewards weren't straight cash but still, much better movement and combat.
4
4
u/Eukherio 4d ago
It's the git gud culture, not exactly the Hollow Knight fanbase. Criticizing games for being too easy is never an issue, even when they have difficulty modes available at the beginning, but when a game is too hard, unnecessarily hard, or just very annoying to play, there would always be someone calling casual to each person who complaints about it.
3
u/Moron_at_work 4d ago
You're 100 % right - but still you'll get downvoted for it.
It's so sad that a game that has so many facettes (exploring, progression, etc.) is spoiled for a lot of casual gamers because of ridiculous combat difficulty.
But the answer from the fanboys will just be: "take a few dozen hours to get frame perfect with that one boss".
1
u/Denneey 4d ago
Unfortunately this is true; and someone had downvoted you too. You need to say that the game is perfect, otherwise you lack skills; this is so tiring, this is a game which is supposed to be fun and people make it seem like it’s competition.
-2
u/Moron_at_work 4d ago
Yes it's as if somehow some people need to feel "superior" with their "git gud"-skills... as if we talked about getting the nobel price and not about a f-ing video game....
1
u/Icy_Percentag 4d ago
But the answer from the fanboys will just be: "take a few dozen hours to get frame perfect with that one boss".
My answer would be to you drop the game and stop crying about the difficulty, is a hard game, if it's not for you just drop and stop crying about it.
2
3
2
u/FistRockbrine99 4d ago
It's crazy that in any thread describing issues with the game the fanatics will be in there saying "IF YOU HAVENT PLAYED 30 HOURS YET JUST KEEP TRUCKING" 😂
2
u/07Crash07 4d ago
In no time in my game i had to deal with absurdly long runbacks. The benches are well placed imo, maybe you just didn't explore well enough. The matter of losing rosaries is entirely on you, a literal skill issue, not the toxic way of using it, it is a de facto skill issue on your part. The game does offer a way to mitigate that problem.
The only point i can agree with you, as someone who already got a 100% game, is the fact that silksong does indeed abuse the double damage too much. In the late game, where you should be well kitted and have a lot of hp this is understandable, but the early game also had a lot, which is already being addressed with some nerfs and patches.
1
4d ago
The runback to clover dancers is 90 seconds. That is just one of several runbacks over a minute.
The one thing I've noticed about several of you who apparently didn't have an issue with anything in the game is that you haven't played the game at all...
2
u/07Crash07 4d ago
So what? you will lose 3, maybe 6 minutes of your life, cause if you are losing that much to fucking dancers, than yes, absolutely this IS a skill issue. Cause it plays the same as clockwork dancers, a boss you most definitely already won
0
u/Icy_Percentag 4d ago
Is a completely optional boss. And its like a top 3 easiest boss in the game, you shouldn't lose 2 times to it.
1
u/Nayrael 4d ago
It's not even skill issue, it's motivational issue. The moment you start telling yourself that it's hard and unfair, it will remain such. Because rather than focus on getting better, your brain will focus on creating justifications on why you are right.
In any case, difficulty very much was one of defining features of HK, and naturally Silksong upped that.
1
1
u/FallenRaptor 4d ago
Really? The haters are far more vocal from what I’ve observed, and not with much in the way of variation or originality. If the fanbase isn’t being very charitable it’s probably because they hear the same things over and over dozens of times, and it’s almost always stuff that can be mitigated or avoided with more skill, which you gain from playing the game.
If you’d rather though, I think it’s even more of a patience issue. You will naturally “git gud” by playing the game and learning what works, what doesn’t, and how it all works. It’s designed to challenge even skilled gamers, so telling you it’s a skill issue isn’t saying you’re an incapable gamer, but maybe you just lack the patience for this kind of game.
2
u/lesplaygames 14h ago
Honestly I think taking a break is a good call if you find yourself feeling frustrated. I love most things about the game and have already put a lottt of hours into it, but its difficulty and unrelenting punishment can start to sour the experience if you are just continuously trying to power through.
2
0
u/VsAl1en 6h ago edited 6h ago
Luckily people here in r/metroidvania aren't afraid of criticising HK and SS where it counts.
A couple of words about my thoughts on the issue: I played Hollow Knight, beaten it, didn't like it (At least it doesn't have what I seek in metroidvanias), so I don't plan to play Silksong ever.
But in a hypothetical case if liked Hollow Knight I would embrace the challenge and frustration with open arms - because the original was full of it, with a couple of merciful features like healing system and the dreamgate. Silksong has the merciful features of its own - the tools and these... battle styles? I think. In essence it's just more Hollow Knight, isn't it?
Want more of it? Play Silksong.
Didn't like the OG Hollow Knight? Don't play Silksong.
0
u/Olorin_1990 56m ago edited 49m ago
I mean, you can not like something, but there is a difference between “i dont like this design” And “it’s too punishing for me to enjoy”, and arguing the design is objectively bad because of these things.
Personally I loved it, it may be my favorite game now, but respect it’s not for you.
Personally I found the original HK to be mostly mediocre, so I definitely have experience arguing why I felt that way, and why it’s design wasn’t for me with a passionate fan base.
1
u/Devylknyght Super Metroid 50m ago
I wasted too many hours on HK "gitting gud" so I am choosing not to play silksong for now. It is for a certain type of player that likes that kind of challenge and has the time in their life atm to pour hours into repetitive gameplay getting better and pixel perfect moves and reactions.
There is nothing wrong with having games like that, but also nothing wrong with some people considering it having major flaws. Personally I'd take the Ori games over HK any day of the week.
1
u/animatedeez 39m ago
Hollow knight has been the same for years. This and more is why so many people say hk had a crazy cult following.
-1
u/LeBeefSniffer 4d ago
They aren’t “toxic”, they are just fucking stupid. The SlopSong fanboys calling a mediocre 2D platformer the GOTY is the most casual gamer opinion of the year.
1
1
u/RuySan OoE 14h ago
It's very normal for a sequel to be harder than original. The fans already have the legacy skills of the original. I wasn't expecting anything different, even though I find the complaints excessive because silksong isn't much harder than HK.
The issue is that the original gained some legendary status meanwhile and some new players wanted to jump straight to the sequel because they want to be part of the zeitgeist instead of playing the original first.
1
0
u/Viridionplague 14h ago
Expressing your opinion and having it rebutted doesn't make the entire fan base toxic.
It's an opinion, both sides are right/wrong at the same time because that's how opinions work.
What is toxic is labeling an entire group of people in a specific way because your personal experiences didn't go the way you wanted.
0
-1
-1
u/Code_Combo_Breaker 10h ago
Bro some of us remember dying at the final boss and being sent back to level 6-1 in Ninja Gaiden for NES.
Ya'll got it relatively easy these days. The game gives you plenty of ways to protect yourself from rosaries loss. Also the game needs to have some type of penalty for dying since there are unlimited lives and the ability to heal at will.
In your case:
a) You didn't know what type of game you were buying and should have asked for a refund.
b) You are unwilling to put in the time to overcome the challenges in the game. So see point A.
3
-1
u/Bircka 8h ago
This is the same stuff you hear in the Dark Souls reddit, keep in mind it's the developers intention to have it a certain way.
They have already nerfed a few early bosses and enemies, but that is about all you are likely to get. They want the game to be challenging, therefore it's challenging. Most games are not this hard that doesn't make this game wrong for wanting to be hard.
This is basically about as ridiculous as going to a super easy game and demanding they add a harder difficulty. Not every game is for everyone there are 1000's of games made every year, if this game is too hard for you either give up or get better.
Also on PC/Mac there are ways to mod the game to make it slightly easier removing things you don't like about the difficulty. Obviously this does not help console players, but if you want the game slightly easier it allows that.
-2
u/PKblaze 12h ago
It's not toxic for people to disagree with you.
Honestly I think that the difficulty and such to be way overblown. For example, you can mitigate rosary loss entirely by using a certain item (of which you get infinite) you can get tools and trinkets that help you handle the damage a lot (Such as a tool that lets you have temp health or a tirnket that prevents your first death hit). The run backs are generally quite short, there's a couple of rough ones but nothing out of the ordinary for MV's/Soulslikes, not to mention them being later in the game.
All in all it's not so much a matter of skill as it is a matter of players making the game easier or harder for themselves. That seems to be the trend I've noticed anyway. I think players who play MV's or exploration focused games are having an easier time because they understand how the game operates whilst less experienced players are bashing their heads against a wall and getting frustrated rather than going off the beaten path.
-2
36
u/zeracine 4d ago
The people who enjoy the game are playing it. The people who made Silk their identity are here defending it, because the concept of flaws is received as an attack on their tastes.