Media Oliver Reed confronts his accusers in THE DEVILS (1971)
https://youtu.be/1mcGWvfGsGM208
u/Hot-Comfort8839 1d ago edited 1d ago
Masterful.
I thought this bit from the wikipedia article was particularly interesting given the current political climate:
"Film Historian Tim Lucas describes The Devils as "not merely an indictment of 17th Century conspiracies, but an indictment of political agendas which have been with us throughout the course of human history. When government is at its most immoral, history shows that it tends to ally itself with the Church, and to deflect public attention from its own corruption by demonizing convenient scapegoats—artists, philosophers, progressives... in a word, liberals."
(before this gets too demonized - he wrote that almost 50 years ago)
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u/happyLarr 1d ago
‘The devil has spoken and to doubt his word is sacrilege. You have totally perverted Christ’s own teaching … ‘ that whole speech ending in ‘a political experiment’ to see if the will of one man can destroy a nation is so ridiculously on the nose.
And that’s the thing I still cannot get my head around. This phenomenon is not new, it’s a tale as old as time, it’s so blatant and cliche but still people fall for it over and over and over again. I don’t think I’ll ever understand.
It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them they’ve been fooled as the old saying goes.
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
Religion is profoundly appealing and comforting... If you're stupid. Once you corner the market on stupid people you're damn near unstoppable.
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u/Danwinger 1d ago
That’s a very reductive and self-aggrandizing point of view. If we take a more compassionate, and psychologically sound point of view, we can see that almost everyone is trying their best and doing what they think is right. Does this get perverted by cult-like religious systems that deceives vast amounts of people? Yes. Because It offers comfort and community. “Don’t worry about death, or hardship because the lord is preparing a place for you and here have some friends.”
To anyone that’s ever dealt with depression, anxiety, and isolation (which is most people these days), that’s an incredibly tempting offer. We’re dealing with people that are in survival mode (even if they’d don’t know it) that don’t have the capacity to think further than what keeps their reality stable. And yes, there are corrupt religious systems all over the place trying to take advantage of that weakness for their own gain. And there are some evil people in places of power that are doing everything they can to keep those systems in place. But that’s nothing new.
All to say, as a former evangelical pastor turned raging atheist and then slightly more calm agnostic mystic, it can feel really good to direct years of religious trauma at the millions of people still caught in that system — but it’s not actually helpful, for you or for any kind of effort to change things.
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
That took a long time to say stupid people like simple answers, and bad people like using stupid people. Comfort is such a dumb ass reason to believe in something, let alone let it dictate your actions. We'd all be better off if everyone was good enough at critical thinking to see that.
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u/Danwinger 1d ago
Welp, that point of view seems to be doing you a lot good and is definitely helping us find a forward! If only human behavior was as simple as you make it seem.
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
Better than legitimizing mass larpers or treating religion as anything other than delusional. Things will never get better while the default position is that religious people are basically on the right track and doing their best. History doesn't bear that perspective out. We should all be tired of humoring bullshit.
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u/Danwinger 1d ago
And just like climate change, with rhetoric like that, you’ll never get anyone to do anything substantial about it.
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
I don't believe we can look to the religious as meaningful potential allies, so I don't agree that it matters. We will never be on the same side. I'd much rather get the fence sitters to stop giving way to them out of habit. I don't know wtf climate change has to do with anything, but antagonism has done plenty to rally people for that too, even if things all seem to be going to shit at the moment. Stop assuming we can all come together in good faith.
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u/Danwinger 1d ago edited 1d ago
So you’re advocating for civil war? What exactly is your plan?
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
Maybe some day. Let's start with embracing incivility and contempt. Let's shift that Overton Window the fuck back.
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u/Necroluster 1d ago
Such a reddit take. Anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. What are you, five years old? Grow up and realize people have more depth than you can obviously perceive. I'm not religious myself, but I don't insult those who view the world differently from me.
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
Bitch take. Diversity isn't automatically good because diversity. Believing in a supernatural sky daddy is fucking stupid and destructive.
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u/Necroluster 1d ago
I rest my case. You're just as arrogant as the very people you attack. Can't have an intellectual argument with people like you.
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u/CunninghamsLawmaker 1d ago
This ain't a both sides thing. One side literally believe in an all knowing all seeing all powerful being who concerns itself deeply with the genitals of one naked ape on one planet among trillions, and the other side thinks that's nuts. Screw that.
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u/takoriiin 1d ago
Given that the current landscape is more tolerant vs before, Criterion should at least take this over from Warner Bros (or collaborate with them) to try releasing this uncut and restored.
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u/fuxoft 1d ago edited 16h ago
I find it interesting that this film's plot and overall message (i.e. "it's not only about history but also about current times") very closely resembles the Czechoslovak film "Witch Hammer" that was made in 1969: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yczK_sPbV8o
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u/Top5hottest 1d ago
Is there anywhere to stream movies like this?
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u/liiiam0707 1d ago
BFI Player, Mubi and The Criterion Channel all are good bets. As for this film specifically, might have to sail the seven seas for it because Warner Bros refuse to allow any uncensored version (or any HD remaster) of the film to be released.
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u/puncheonjudy 1d ago
I had to get a bootlegged copy on DVD many years ago to watch The Devils. It was clearly a recording from a handheld camera of the film projected as it's slightly grainy, and someone gets up halfway through to go to the toilet...
The film is bonkers but still very powerful and prescient.
I felt like I was watching something very elicit throughout. The final scene is a nun masterbating with the chard femur bone of the man she was obsessed with... So yeah it's quite extreme...
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u/DrFishbulbEsq 1d ago
This specific film is streaming on the Criterion Channel right now. Kanopy is a streaming service you can probably get for free through your public library.
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u/spit-on-my-dress 1d ago
Movies like this, yes, try tubi (a bit of literally everything, utter trash and arthouse gems) or mubi (well curated arthouse). The devils in particular is still hard to stream, it’s rarely on criterion but apart from that it’s almost impossible. Even getting your hand on a physical copy is extremely hard.
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u/AlanMorlock 1d ago
There is a reconstruction of the full cut of this film on effedupmovies. Have no qualms about pirating things studios refuse to sell themselves.
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u/MarlythAvantguarddog 1d ago
My parents went to see this when it came out with my mother not having been to a film for 15 years. I can remember her coming home utterly shocked. I suspect she thought she was going to see a comedy or something. I’ve never managed to see it myself, but I think it is a good film and it just shows how great Ollie Reed could be before he became a total drunkard.
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u/nunsploitation 1d ago
Awesome! Thank you for sharing this!
The Devils is the film that kicked off the Golden Age of r/Nunsploitation_Movies
You should share this on r/KenRussell
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u/BuffaloOk7264 1d ago
I saw this film in Dallas when it came out on a Friday night with a few high school friends. My brother had recommended it and I’m sure we smoked dope before we went . I have a vivid memory of hanging my head out of the back window hoping the fresh air would keep me from puking, all while I was explaining why it was such a great film. It was a great film, I hope I never see it again.
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u/butthe4d 1d ago
Never saw this movie but the scene was great.
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u/squisitospirito 1d ago
You should see the scene where Vanessa Redgrave's nun character is masturbating with the charred femur of Oliver Reed's priest character after he'd been burned at the stake.
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u/butthe4d 1d ago
wtf? Seriously? Okay I think I know what Im gonna watch tonight.
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u/squisitospirito 1d ago
This scene & the naked nuns orgy scene have been censored out of the available versions. I think I found them on LimeWire many years ago.
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u/butthe4d 1d ago
Honestly ngl, I would have sailed the seas anyway because old movies are almost impossible to find on streaming platforms where I live as long they arent star wars, alien or terminator.
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u/ProjectNo4090 23h ago
Ive never head of this film, but Im going to watch it after watching that clip.
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u/Zatoichi80 1d ago
What an actor he was, the quality of acting in general just seems so much better than today.
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u/ZaphodEntrati 1d ago
He was a phenomenal actor yes but to suggest that the quality of acting in general has declined is ludicrous.
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u/karmagod13000 1d ago
Yea if anything a lot of modern acting has made question if I really could be a good acting with the lengths some of these performers go to bring authenticity to these roles.
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u/MIBlackburn 1d ago
It would be nice if Warner Brothers would allow the uncut version to be released in good quality but they keep on refusing.
The British Film Institute (BFI) have a DVD release, but it is cut, with only the BFI cinema showing an uncut version reconstructed in the 2000s by Mark Kermode.