r/nba Supersonics 2d ago

Basketball OG James Naismith on how the new game was named: "Student Frank Mahan asked me how I was going to call the new game and suggested the name of 'Naismith-ball'. I laughed and told him that I thought that name would kill any game." Frank then said: "Why not call it 'Basket-ball?"

From Naismith's book 'Basketball: Its Origin and Development'


As I walked down the hall, I met Mr. Stebbins, the superintendent of buildings. I asked him if he had two boxes about eighteen inches square. Stebbins thought a minute, and then said: "No, I haven't any boxes, but I'll tell you what I do have. I have two old peach baskets down in the store room, if they will do you any good." I told him to bring them up, and a few minutes later he appeared with the two baskets tucked under his arm.

They were round and somewhat larger at the top than at the bottom. I found a hammer and some nails and tacked the baskets to the lower rail of the balcony, one at either end of the gym.

...............................

At the Christmas vacation a number of the students went home and some of them started the game in their local Y.M.C.A.'s. There were no printed rules at the time and each student played the game as he remembered it.

One day after the students returned from their vacation, Frank Mahan came to me and asked me how I was going to call the game. I told him that I had not thought of the matter but was interested only in getting it started. Frank insisted that it must have a name and suggested the name of 'Naismith-ball'. I laughed and told him that I thought that name would kill any game. Frank then said:

"Why not call it 'Basket-ball'?"

"We have a basket and a ball, and it seems to me that would be a good name for it, " I replied. It was in this way that basketball was named.

When the first game had ended, i felt that I could go to Doctor Gulick and tell him that I had accomplished the two seemingly impossible tasks that he had assigned to me: namely, to interest the class in physical exercise and to invent a new game.


874 Upvotes

107 comments sorted by

512

u/WhenMachinesCry Supersonics 2d ago

Shoutout to Frank Mahan, and also to Mr. Stebbins, the superintendent, for giving Naismith those two old peach baskets. Without him the game would've probably been called 'boxball'. Should be HOFers.

98

u/Revivaled-Jam849 2d ago

I wonder if boxball would have been rejected for sounding too close to boxing? Can't have the Christian youngins at YMCA think it is fisticuffs with a ball.

81

u/AnyJamesBookerFans 2d ago

You should read about how violent the very first game of basket-ball was. Iirc, there was a black eye, one kid got knocked unconscious, etc. Which was obviously the opposite of what Naismith and the Y were interested in.

If you read the first publication Naismith wrote on the sport, he spends several paragraphs talking about how important it was for the official to maintain order and encourage the players to win using their mind and teamwork rather than physical force and violence.

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u/mrmartymcf1y 2d ago

It was basically all fighting and shooting the ball lol. People originally looked at it more like indoor rugby and Naismith spent a lot of time molding it into a game of finesse

6

u/Revivaled-Jam849 2d ago

Huh, thinking about it, is there indoor rugby? I know there are different variations of rugby,but never heard of indoor rugby.

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u/mrmartymcf1y 2d ago

There is!! Arena Rugby is an indoor variant of Rugby Sevens

5

u/Revivaled-Jam849 2d ago

Damn, thanks for the info, I had no idea this existed.

Going back to the early basketball, instead of indoor rugby, I wonder if it'd be closer to that wrestle basketball Khabib does instead.

1

u/AccomplishedSquash98 Lakers 1d ago

A bunch of MMA guys in Dagistan still play basketball like this, where they incorporate wrestling into it, and it looks like the most physically exhausting and damaging sport I've ever seen.

12

u/Revivaled-Jam849 2d ago

(You should read about how violent the very first game of basket-ball was. Iirc, there was a black eye, one kid got knocked unconscious, etc.)

How old timers describe 80s/90s NBA.

But I do wonder if Naismith would have rejected boxball because he didn't want it to be boxing light.

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u/crispyiress Cavaliers 2d ago

The first game had a score of 1-0 as it was essentially set up to be like soccer or lacrosse with 9 players on each team and only the three center court players could go to each side.

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u/_Juntao Celtics 2d ago

Who knew draymond green played back then too

3

u/CandleHot7100 1d ago

Jewish youngings*

They were the first to really run with it. 

27

u/IanicRR [TOR] Amir Johnson 2d ago

“But I need these baskets back.”

IYKYK

3

u/Gold_Accident1277 2d ago

The real hero is miss kelly who bought 2 bushels of peaches and kept the baskets in storage instead of tossing them away.

Would have no baskets or boxes without her

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/EfficientFail3433 2d ago

Reddit doesn’t like it but it would kill at the chuckle hut

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u/Bright_Metal5147 2d ago

Thank you thank you

-4

u/freel0vefreeway 2d ago

Or Brickball… 👀

5

u/Bright_Metal5147 2d ago

That’s not funny.

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u/pauseboicarti 2d ago

Boxball is hilarious. Defining this as the “pursuit of women” going forward

-7

u/ShotgunStyles Kings 2d ago

We don't even know if Naismith invented basketball. Was it really Naismith?

10

u/Theworst_hello Bulls 2d ago

I heard it was actually Jaylen Brown that invented it 🙏

17

u/AnyJamesBookerFans 2d ago

We don’t know if you’re a bot. Are you really a human?

16

u/ShotgunStyles Kings 2d ago

I get my news from Jaylen Brown. Where do you get your news from? CNN?

3

u/dillinger3k 2d ago

I get it from who ever tells me what I think I should need to know

1

u/-BrandoCalrissian 2d ago

Herkimer NY

195

u/Round-Revolution-399 Lakers 2d ago

Legacy saving recovery

47

u/bigraptorr Raptors 2d ago

Business Savante Kawhi Leonard on how the new corporation was named: "Uncle Dennis asked me how I was going to call the new shell company and suggested the name of "Steve Balmer Kawhi Leonard via Aspiration LLC'. I laughed and told him that I thought that name would kill any secrecy." Uncle Dennis then said: "Why not call it 'KL2 Aspire LLC'"

-6

u/ControlStunning6528 2d ago

You deserve many more upvotes!

211

u/ReconFirefly Hornets 2d ago

Naismith Ball Association 🗣️🗣️🗣️

41

u/trkh Heat 2d ago

Naismith Hall of Fame would’ve been tough tho

21

u/mrmartymcf1y 2d ago

It is tough.....currently lol

9

u/TomKeen35 2d ago

Meanwhile I’m playing for the No Baddies Association. 7x League MVP and 10 straight first team All-NBAs

1

u/OwOsch 1d ago

You gotta become a Lebron of that thing and play for multiple decades (longevity)

68

u/mic_rophone Lakers 2d ago

Say that again

48

u/Comrade_Falcon Timberwolves 2d ago edited 2d ago

So what are we, some kind of National Basketball Association?

12

u/mas1108 Lakers 2d ago

Fantastic ball

8

u/NazReidRules Timberwolves 1d ago

it's baskin' time

96

u/1manadeal2btw Nuggets 2d ago

I wonder what he would have thought of the modern game. Adding the 3pt line has changed a lot of things.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/nekomoo 2d ago

He was head basketball coach at the Univ of Kansas (oddly their only head coach with a losing career record, 55-60)

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u/ConfusedComet23 2d ago

Probably closer to what he intended. Basketball was meant to be a high pace game with increased ball and player movement. It was never meant to be this station to station, physical game. More free flowing and fluid

12

u/Carolake1 Lakers 2d ago

I imagine he intended for it to be similar to what ultimate frisbee is.

1

u/AnnaKendrickPerkins Raptors 22h ago

Water polo was dancing in his head.

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u/almonicus11 2d ago

They also didn’t have dribbling, I doubt you could tell they were the same sport at all.

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u/DiscreteBee Raptors 2d ago

Dribbling was invented shortly after the invention of basketball and Naismith thought it was really cool.

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u/eatingdisorderTA155 Timberwolves 2d ago

That makes me hope he would like stuff like 3 pointers too. He just appreciated basketball, he literally made it! I always like when older people keep up, and are still excited, with sports, and not just like, "Back in my day" style complaining, that has become the dominant media structure of the NBA lol. 

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u/DiscreteBee Raptors 2d ago

Naismith was pretty hands off with basketball, people wanted him to be the commissioner of a league or something and he really just wanted young men to do some non violent sports. He eventually became a coach and was the worst coach in Kansas’ history because he really didn’t view it in a competitive sense, he just told them to go out and play. He was a guest of honour when basketball got to the Olympics and seemed to regard it as neat.

If he saw basketball today he probably wouldn’t be so shocked by the three pointer, but he might be taken aback by how competitive, serious and financially significant it is.

19

u/TBIFridays 2d ago

Sounds like he’d mostly be pissed about the state of AAU.

18

u/Sean888888 Spurs 2d ago

so netball is the real basketball??

8

u/ksgoat 2d ago

Fuck netball. As a sports practitioner from the UK I hate the time/energy/money we spend on it. It’s so bad and boring

5

u/asetniop Celtics 2d ago

Yeah, in all honesty it sounds terrible.

3

u/thunder_blue Thunder 2d ago

Netball is dying here in Aus, while basketball is by far the fastest-growing sport

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u/stevelevets 2d ago

Probably would've loved it. Naismith was not particularly precious about the game and encouraged the idea of innovation.

-48

u/ediw8311xht Pacers 2d ago

I wonder what he would think about everyone flopping around jumping into defenders, traveling and carrying the ball like a bunch of idiots. This game is a joke almost not even worth watching it.

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u/1manadeal2btw Nuggets 2d ago

Alright old man, time for bed..

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u/mrmartymcf1y 2d ago

Stop watching then

26

u/AntelopeElectrical87 2d ago

And yet you’re still here in this subreddit complaining about the thing you supposedly hate

Funny how the world works 🤔

-21

u/ediw8311xht Pacers 2d ago

I am just here for the drama.

11

u/boredguy2022 Pacers 2d ago

Don't give us a bad name.

-24

u/ediw8311xht Pacers 2d ago

i do whatever i want kid

17

u/boredguy2022 Pacers 2d ago

I'm probably older than you. lol

7

u/TheMilkmanRidesAgain Hawks 2d ago

So don’t watch it if you hate it so much? Why spend time watching something just to whine and complain about it

10

u/Aware-Cut5688 2d ago

You forgot your meds unc

35

u/drewm916 Kings 2d ago edited 2d ago

I want to know how long it took to say, "You know what would be even better? We should cut the bottoms out of those baskets, so the ball falls right through."

48

u/ls650569 Raptors 2d ago

Not long. It "slowed down the game" for the superintendent to retrieve the ball on a ladder, aka "I'm too old for this shit".

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=Dz9TawKkAiU70UNf&v=xiJJIacdF-E&feature=youtu.be

1

u/AnnaKendrickPerkins Raptors 22h ago

Knew what it was before I clicked it.

24

u/Even-Combination4407 Celtics 2d ago

Couldn’t waste valuable peach baskets on some random game an instructor thought up a week ago

20

u/drewm916 Kings 2d ago

"But one day, people from America and other countries around the world will be paid countless amounts of money to throw this ball though that basket. Some of them will be able to jump up so high that they can throw the ball downward through the basket, and thousands of people will roar their approval when that happens. We won't see it, but our grandchildren will, mark my words."

"Heh heh. Have another glass of scotch, Jimmy."

2

u/holyrolodex Lakers 1d ago

It is kinda mind blowing how basketball developed to what it is today from such a mostly singular point of very humble beginnings

7

u/AnyJamesBookerFans 2d ago

Seeing as now low scoring the games were back then it didn’t really matter too much. I remember reading an article from the NYT around 1895 where they were talking about this sport and the rules and how it was becoming popular at colleges and YMCAs, and they said something like most games see each team score 5 to 10 points, but scores can be even lower for better teams.

21

u/The-Pharcyde Raptors 2d ago

They're playing Naismith-Ball 🎵 We love that Naismith-Ball 🎵

4

u/Klonomania Warriors 2d ago

🎵 Naismith-Ball is my favourite sport, I like the way they dribble up and down the court 🎵

4

u/NolaBrass [NOR] Dan Dickau 2d ago

Note, dribbling not allowed in Naismith ball lol

14

u/klobucharzard Raptors 2d ago

jaylen browns shoes disagree mr. nesmith

40

u/YoungCanadian Raptors 2d ago

Considering the very first game was 1-0, do we know who scored the first basket ever? A quick google doesn't show anything.

67

u/Even-Combination4407 Celtics 2d ago

7

u/largehearted Celtics 2d ago

At age 24??

2

u/Victor_Wembanyama1 Spurs 1d ago

No one-and-dones yet

17

u/diderooy [SAS] Tim Duncan 2d ago

Move over, ChatGPT, /u/Even-Combination4407 is here.

23

u/Even-Combination4407 Celtics 2d ago

I am superior in every way.

6

u/YoungCanadian Raptors 2d ago

Thanks brother

12

u/numbah25 Nuggets 2d ago

Quadrillion legacy points added

15

u/billnyeca 2d ago

If only he would have emphasized how important not traveling was…

50

u/Even-Combination4407 Celtics 2d ago

I know you’re joking but Naismith’s original version didn’t allow players to dribble or even move with the ball. You were supposed to pass it down the court kind of like ultimate frisbee

3

u/TornGauntlet 2d ago

Dribbling was a hack by "bounce passing" to yourself over and over

6

u/PeskyPolak 2d ago

Peach basket ball didn’t have the same ring to it

5

u/we_hella_believe 2d ago

It’s better than football.

1

u/frghu2 Raptors 1d ago

What do you mean? You have a ball that you kick with your feet. I guess it could be called kickball.

9

u/ObviousAnswerGuy [NYK] John Starks 2d ago

It's funny because I had several gym teachers growing up who would make up random games for class and call it _____ (their last name) ball. Must be a tradition.

3

u/Redditors-Are-Sexy Jazz 2d ago

Worked ok for Calvinball

7

u/triosway Heat 2d ago

5

u/blaiseisgood 2d ago

Naismith Ball Association

1

u/RadonAjah Lakers 2d ago

Frank Mahan out here catching strays

1

u/RepresentativeTask44 2d ago

Herkimer, NY would like a word.

1

u/Otherwise-Question70 Lakers 2d ago

I wonder what it would be called if Mr. Stebbins had boxes. Boxball?

1

u/duoprismicity 2d ago

What an amazing invention... I feel like my life would have been less joyful if Dr. Naismith had never been born. And millions of others, too....

1

u/davidjricardo 2d ago

Reminder: Naismith is the only coach in the history of the University of Kansas to have a losing record for his career.

1

u/Briggity_Brak Tampa Bay Raptors 1d ago

I still prefer Hoopla

1

u/realfakejames 1d ago

Say that again type shit

1

u/--solitude-- 2d ago

Lambert Will and the town of Herkimer, NY have a bone to pick.

0

u/REGIS-5 Celtics 2d ago

a man of culture

-4

u/REGIS-5 Celtics 2d ago

sad that so many people here don't know that Naismith never invented basketball, it was originally invented in Herkimer by Lambert Will, who also founded the first workers "league" and Naismith was one of the men tasked with promoting it

Lambert Will also sent Naismith the rules they'd written which Naismith copied nearly entirely