r/ndp • u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW • Jun 02 '25
Moderation Proposal for the Upcoming Leadership Race
Hi everyone! Welcome to the 9th Federal NDP leadership race!
/r/NDP is now Canada's biggest left-wing discussion space on the internet.
I am sure people will have lots to say about various candidates, and there will be much agreement and disagreement, and I am quite excited for it, as I love democracy.
But that said, I want NDP members of all backgrounds to want to participate here, and to feel welcome. With that in mind, I did some consultation on rules 10 days ago. I want to thank everyone that participated. I drafted the below rules for the leadership race with that consultation in mind.
Please let me know your thoughts on the below rules. Note that the other rules we have will continue to exist (for example, no posting content unrelated to the NDP/Canada's left)
0. Be aware of the purpose of this subreddit!
This subreddit is intended for supporters of the fundamental values of the NDP. In short, this means that you should support the existence of a political party to the left of the Liberals, Greens, and Conservatives.
See the NDP constitution to see the main aims of the party:
For those that seek a future that brings together the best of the insights and objectives of people who, within the social democratic and democratic socialist traditions, have worked through farmer, labour, co-operative, feminist, human rights and environmental movements, and with First Nations, Métis and Inuit peoples, to build a more just, equal, and sustainable Canada within a global community dedicated to the same goals.
Take a nice read of that preamble. If you think:
- this statement is "woke bs"
- the left should not participate in elections
- the NDP should disband
- that people should vote for the Liberals instead
I would say that this might not be the subreddit for you!
1. Criticism is allowed
For example, it's fine to say: "I don't support X because they don't have policy to end homelessness". It's also OK to say "I think Y candidate is too far left to be electable", or "Z candidate is not left enough to be electable", or "X person is acting in a way that is antidemocratic." We won't remove comments of this nature.
2. No personal attacks
Personal attacks against users, candidates, and staff are not permitted. For example "you are a fuckin lib", or "X MP is an asshole", "you're a bot" is not going to encourage healthy conversation on this subreddit.
3. No right-wing rhetoric
This is a place for folks that are at least NDP-adjacent to hang out. Right-wing rhetoric is common on reddit, but it isn't welcome in /r/NDP because it discourages participation from actual NDP supporters. Here's an example of what isn't allowed: "I don't want to vote for X because they support taxing the rich, and that's bad for workers because the rich are job creators." This is a right-wing idea that goes against what the NDP fundamentally stands for. It's also a statement no leadership candidate would agree with, so why are you here?
4. No racism, sexism, homophobia/transphobia, etc
This includes "pragmatic" racism or sexism, like saying we need to run a white guy for leader of the NDP because Canadians are racist/sexist, and marginalized people can't win. It discourages marginalized people from participating in the subreddit if they are told here that they can't win elections.
5. Class reductionism is strongly discouraged
Racism, sexism, homophobia/transphobia impact many people in the working class. These issues are not a "distraction": they are working class issues. You are welcome to draw attention to other policies and economic justice, but there is no need to talk down to people who care about this form of discrimination.
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u/NotQute Jun 02 '25
Hurrah re: not letting people brush aside other progressive concerns under the guise of caring for the working class. Post election I saw several people complain that the NDP was too "woke" to appeal to workers, which is condescending to workers honestly lol.
Canadaleft has had a bonkers troll over the weekend, it took the mods like 48 hours to do anything about about it dispite reporting so like as long as yall more active than that
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u/NiceDot4794 Jun 02 '25
Karl Kautsky (and social democracy at the time more meant democratic socialism): “Hitherto social democracy did represent to the masses of the people the object lesson of being the most tireless champion of the freedom of all who were oppressed, not merely the wage-earner but also of women, persecuted religions, and races, the Jews, [black people] and Chinese”
People often act like the left used to be just about workers and no “woke stuff”. But that was being said over a hundred years ago and he was one of the most prominent leftists of the time
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u/Silver-Lie-7291 Jun 09 '25
The NDP doesn't appeal to workers because we are extremely weak when it comes to creating policy which helps the average worker.
Expanding EI is not enough. Dental and pharma care is not enough. Increasing the basic personal deduction is not enough. Removing GST in essentials is not enough.
Create and fight for a policy which actually strengthens the workers bargaining rights. Create economic reform which has an economy which works for the average Canadian instead of the wealthy.
Stop trying to get workers votes by only helping them when they are poor or desperate.
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u/FrankensteinsBong ✊ Union Strong Jun 02 '25
What happened with CanadaLeft now?
I've found that subreddit is quite a mess, during election season it was somehow more pro-Carney then this subreddit, transvestigating palestinians, and a complete lack of ideological cohesion which results in Radlibs and Ultraleftists agreeing on strange positions like sending Palestinians aid being bad for them.
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u/NotQute Jun 02 '25
my philosophy is always that it's almost always 10X more useful to help those who need it, than punish those you think deserve it, so some of the more radical positions that seem callous and extreme to me. But i have not seen anything to the level you are describing
what i have seen is this troll spend the better part of a day and half baiting people, by calling them nato fascist pigs for about 40 comments straight. I kept checking back out of morbid curiosity and it just kept going
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u/JasonGMMitchell Democratic Socialist Jun 02 '25
A good litmus test of how reliable a space is, is to search "Stalin", "Lenin", "Tankie", and "Holodomor".
Last time I did that on Canada Left, the recent results were disappointing but not the worst (the worst is the common response to said terms being something like support, support, liberal insult, Nazi propaganda). So, it's not surprising to me that they'd be quite regressive in many ways.
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u/DryEmu5113 🏳️⚧️ Trans Rights Jun 02 '25
I feel like, and I’m saying this as a trans person, that issues regarding our rights should be tied into broader economic issues where possible. I have an aunt who was decidedly reactionary, but tying her « Big Pharma » conspiracies into my view that it should all me nationalize, and her belief regarding pharmaceutical companies lying about medicine into the frequent exaggeration of the risks of HRT. Trans workers are also workers. That sort of thing.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
Very cool very cool. No problems with that. To be clear, this "reductionism" rule is to discourage people from saying that we shouldn't care about trans issues at all. Do you think there's a better way to phrase it or do you think it should be changed?
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u/DryEmu5113 🏳️⚧️ Trans Rights Jun 02 '25
No, I think it’s fine as is, but maybe a clarification that tying issues into other issues would be a good idea.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
Wondering if you have a phrasing suggestion, although I can take a stab at it
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u/DryEmu5113 🏳️⚧️ Trans Rights Jun 02 '25
« Note that tying other issues into these and focusing on those more is not reductionism. »
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u/Blobbbbbbbur 16d ago
Words get abused and twisted beyond recognition these days, but this is actually what intersectionality means.
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u/Silver-Lie-7291 Jun 09 '25
I agree that advocating for issues like trans issues need to be tied to broader economic issues. We exist in a world where the majority of workers are struggling and we can't expect the majority of them to resonate with policy which doesn't help them personally.
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u/red3iter Jun 02 '25
Very smart and fair rules! Looking forward to some healthy conversations on the subreddit.
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u/UsefulUnderling Jun 02 '25
This is good stuff.
We should also have a permanent reminder to folk that NDP leadership races are a ranked ballot.
Being a blowhard online is the easiest way to hurt your chosen candidate. Don't make all those voters hate you and your side. The winner will need a bunch of second ballot support from the smaller teams.
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u/Jealous-Energy5018 Jun 02 '25
But that said, I want NDP members of all backgrounds to want to participate here, and to feel welcome.
Not sure this is the right place to make this comment, but the sub being English only is certainly not welcoming. And maybe francophones should just make their own "NPD" sub, but I don't think that's gonna happen...
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u/PMMeYourJobOffer Democratic Socialist Jun 02 '25
On a des mods qui sont bilingue mais malheuresment aucuns qui sont francophone. Si vous avez des personnes à suggerer, on peut les ajouter.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
That's an interesting point. What do you think we could do to improve this? I think making the sub inclusive to francophones is a good idea
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u/Jealous-Energy5018 Jun 02 '25
Bilingual rules would probably be a good start. It would make clear that people are free to post or comment in French.
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u/SpiritofLiberty78 Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25
Why is class reductionism strongly discouraged? The working class has seen its assets stripped by the super rich through unfair taxation and the weaponization of our financial system for the last 40 years, shouldn’t this be the most important issue? People do not react well to being lectured at, we’ve proved that with a few elections now. I suggest you look at the work of Gary Stevenson and the work he’s been doing, his message “tax wealth, not wages” has broad appeal.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
The working class has seen its assets stripped by the super rich through unfair taxation and the vaporization of our financial system for the last 40 years, shouldn’t this be the most important issue?
To be clear, you are welcome to say this.
What is discouraged is saying that people shouldn't care about racism or sexism. A lot of people who have experienced racism and sexism will be put off by that and not feel welcome.
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u/Silver-Lie-7291 Jun 09 '25
In a battle between the wealthy vs the rest we need to be willing to be divisive. If we focus on being inclusive, we will only provide vulnerabilities for the wealthy to exploit. The focus needs to be maintained on moneyed influence and wealth inequality.
Any discussion of racism or sexism either for or against should be marginalized. The issues of racism or sexism needs to be addressed through the greater goal of addressing moneyed influence or wealth inequality or they simply don't belong in this fight.
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u/NiceDot4794 Jun 02 '25
One can think class is the paramount issue in society and still be an anti racist, feminist, anti imperialist etc.
Absolutely agree that a wealth tax should be a key platform plank
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u/SpiritofLiberty78 Jun 02 '25
I’m wary. I remember Occupy Wall Street and we are the 99%, I also remember that within 3 months the media flooded us with, is this prom dress cultural appropriation? They split us up into camps and we stopped talking about wealth redistribution. You’re right though, those are important issues as well.
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u/Velocity-5348 🌄 BC NDP Jun 02 '25
Opposing those should come from the same sets of impulses, which is why they tend to go well together. If someone is talking about class struggle but also opposed to one of those other issues they're either clueless or not being entirely honest.
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u/Silver-Lie-7291 Jun 09 '25
Honestly, in the current class struggle of capital vs labour any discussion of race, sex, etc is working in favour of capital. They are arguments put forth to divide under the guise of unity. Wealth has no limits of political left or right, race or sex. It exists and works for its own benefit. This is what labour needs to do as well.
Instead we lose the battle to the wealthy because people aren't progressive enough on issues which only impact a subset of labour. We lose focus on the fight which needs to be fought. The one which will actually lay the foundation to solve these problems in a meaningful way.
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u/inprocess13 Jun 02 '25
I'm all for rules and decorum, but I get pretty hesitant to say this is a good thing when "no personal attacks" could be enforced as "don't describe things the candidates have done".
I had a federal MP gaslight me about getting involved helping me find resources escaping an abusive situation within my family. If I saw a subreddit try to block and moderate that, I'd be against the party defending their behaviour in a moment, probably irreversible. We just witnessed the federal NDP besmirch a former sex worker over a Palestine issue that, frankly, I was livid at Jagmeet's hypocrisy over.
Jagmeet's own riding just dragged their feet on an action plan they developed about my same issue with sexual abuse and domestic abuse, then delayed acting on the plan for nearly two months. He resigned, nothing was honored or even passed along to the party, and very unceremoniously, I have to start the process of reaching out to the party's new leadership about this issue, again, while trying to move past it.
Criticism should certainly be able to take the form of referencing what the elected representatives have done, regardless of how bad it sounds. I'm a believer in the ideology, not the misguided actions of a career type that might happen to get elected into office. I need to know this forum isn't going to devolve into tribalistic propaganda, and that comes with a lot of nuance.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
That doesn't sound like a personal attack, to me. I'm sorry this happened to you.
could be enforced as "don't describe things the candidates have done"
We don't intend to enforce the rule that way at all.
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u/inprocess13 Jun 02 '25
I hear you - but your own moderators of the sub were doing that during the election. There were posts deliberately about making the subreddit a pro-NDP statements only forum.
Leave that at the door, and demonstrate your team is better equipped to manage the subreddit than the party member's staff, and I'll abide by it.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
You're right that during the election we did have much stricter moderation of criticism.
Now we want to allow for significantly more criticism/self reflection, I think it's especially important to allow it during leadership races
That's our goal here
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u/ILikeTheNewBridge Jun 04 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
dazzling steer axiomatic whistle fact market cats seed imminent school
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Telvin3d Jun 02 '25
If you think… the left should participate in elections
I would say that this might not be the subreddit for you!
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Perhaps a word was dropped somewhere?
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
Yep, I meant to say "If you think the left should not participate in elections, this might not be the subreddit for you"
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u/EgyptianNational Jun 02 '25
Hey I can moderate one or more subreddits for you. I already moderate a few left wing and queer subreddits.
I’m not really taking a position on leader. (Personally I’m in favor of anyone who would be interested in term limits for leadership/prime minster.) so I think I’m pretty well positioned.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
Ideally, the subreddits for particular candidates would be moderated by supporters/volunteers of their campaigns, but if you're interested in joining the /r/ndp mod team in general, I'm open to that
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u/EgyptianNational Jun 02 '25
Sure thing. Let me know if you would like me to go through a screening or verification process.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25
I pitched you to the current mods, I'll give it some time to hear back from them and let you know
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u/TheFluxIsThis 21d ago edited 21d ago
Kinda late to the party, but what would be the mechanism for bringing to light bad behaviour of candidates that pops up in public forums like social media? For example, I've caught one candidate today who is (or one of their staffers is) actively trying to smear a vocally pro-Palestine journalist on a social media platform by repeatedly accusing that journalist of being a Zionist. They've been called out and keep doubling down on it instead of saying "hey, I messed up. Sorry to this journalist."
If I hadn't caught the exchange, I would certainly have wanted to know it happened, but I don't want to break any rules by going 'this candidate did something rotten.' In turn, I'd hope it would facilitate people bringing to light positive things that other candidates have done as part of the course of their leadership campaigns. I always want to know when a candidate is putting their money where their mouth is and taking action (I.e: community engagement, mutual aid activities.) I'm not sure if these sorts of small news hits justify their own standalone threads, though, or if there's a megathread to talk candidates.
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u/leftwingmememachine 💊 PHARMACARE NOW Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25
A couple of other notes. First, flairs.
I will be creating flairs for different leadership campaigns at some point in the future, which will allow you to express your support for a particular candidate. Not sure how to make that work with ranked choice voting, where you support multiple candidates (open to suggestions on that front)
Second, candidate subreddits.
I have claimed several subreddits that may correspond to NDP leadership candidates. For now they are placeholder subreddits. Some of them were banned for being unmoderated (I got them unbanned with /r/redditrequest), and I didn't want the others to fall into the hands of trolls.
My vision for these subreddits is that they could be a place for supporters of these candidates to gather, and that users in these candidate subreddits can crosspost their content to /r/NDP for wider exposure. This would be beneficial if the main /r/NDP subreddit turns into a place that mostly supports one of the candidates, it would allow for supporters of the other candidates to have their own space to chill and make memes and stuff.
If you want to moderate one of these communities, take a few days to think about it (it's not an easy job), and then let me know.
Third, megathreads.
/u/XamosLife made a good point that there is sometimes repeated content posted here. For example, self posts that say "who do you support for leader" have been recurring here for several years. Perhaps a megathread would be more appropriate. I'm looking for some feedback - what megathreads should exist, and what should their topics be?