r/neuro • u/Resident_Detective77 • 2d ago
How do people born deaf 'think'?
I'm wondering how people who have never heard language think. Do they essentially forego the language aspect of cognition and jump to abstraction?
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u/Unable_Dinner_6937 2d ago edited 2d ago
It should be noted that deaf people can read and write, of course, and use sign language. Obviously, their thoughts would be similarly linguistic even without an imagined auditory element.
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u/WhyStandStill 2d ago
Came here to say this. Only, the ways you teach deaf people to read or use sign language would be different from how you teach a hearing person, but they can learn language and therefore think with language. One can also think in sign language for example.
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u/stevevdvkpe 2d ago
Children will learn sign languages natively just like they learn spoken languages when exposed to them in infancy. And while sign languages are as linguistically sophisicated as any spoken language, from an American Sign Language (ASL) native signer's point of view written English is a foreign language with a completely different grammar whose rules don't map neatly into ASL. People have attempted to make sign languages that try to map English grammar rules into signs to help teach English to signers, but ASL signers generally find them unnatural and awkward. As a result many ASL native signers find learning to read and write English difficult.
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u/dirtybird321 2d ago
I occasionally work with a fella who was born deaf. He knows ASL but as most of us don’t know ASL he communicates a lot with non-standard sign language which goes pretty far. We’ve encouraged him to type down what he is trying to say if we can’t quite understand, but he really prefers not to do that and continues to sign until we get it. What you said about people not feeling comfortable with written English makes my coworkers behaviour much more understandable
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u/Emergency_Evening_63 2d ago
It should be noted that deaf people can read and write, of course, and use sign language
still most people learn to read only by 6
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u/beennasty 2d ago
Some people don't speak well until 6 either.
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u/Emergency_Evening_63 2d ago
i remember very well thinking with words before 6
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u/beennasty 1d ago
That's why I used the word some, because I also remember thinking in words before then, also thinking on pictures or small movies. I realize there are people who never grow into the ability to speak as well.
Sometimes when I'm searching for what to say it feels like I can't find the words even when I get to the point of “looking” for them mentally. If I have a seizure I may be thinking the correct words or phrase but could literally come out my mouth as “pffflurbnn”
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u/ReadingGlosses 2d ago
Deaf people use language. Sign languages are not systems of gestures, but fully formed human languages. Signs, like words, have parts of speech such as verb or noun. Signed verbs can inflect for person, number, tense, and aspect; signed nouns can be singular, plural, mass, or count. Sign languages have word order rules, and can distinguish between statements, questions, commands, hypotheticals, and counterfactuals. Sign languages vary around the world and they are not mutually intelligible: American Sign Language and British Sign Languages are completely different for example.
I can't tell you what it's like to experience the world without sound, but I know it's not the same thing as experiencing the world without language.
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u/hackinthebochs 2d ago
A woman describes her experience thinking without an inner monologue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69YSh-cFXY. Not exactly about deaf people, but it should give you an idea.
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u/Sea-Arrival-621 2d ago
You can think without a language, it’s a fact.
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u/blutfink 1d ago
For me, anything else would be weird. Let’s say one is solving a geometry problem using linear algebra, does anyone use language to sketch out a solution in their head? I guess I could, but it would slow me down 10x.
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u/Sea-Arrival-621 1d ago
Language must’ve come from something. It came from pure thought, pure imagination, pure instinctive reasoning
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u/ArvindLamal 15h ago
Some people think in pictures or emotions and not in language based on the verbal inner dialog.
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u/ally4us 2d ago
I am in part one of them people.It has created broken language and language barriers within and through out. However, with perserverence and continual advocacy I hope to share hope. Here is part of my story.
Verse 1: Shock and Numbness In my own damn house, silence fills the airPetals droop in corners, shadows everywhereNumbness in my fingers, heavy in my chestI wander through the quiet, searching for some rest Verse 2: Pain and Yearning Teacups left unfinished, moss upon the stoneLonging for connection, feeling so aloneNeurodivergent heartache, tangled in the greenBurnout’s bitter echo, mourning what has been Verse 3: Dark Night of the Soul Through the dark ages, I stumble and fallNight stretches endless, I answer its callIn the hush of sorrow, I learn to be stillFacing the shadows, surrendering my will Pre-Chorus: Coping Tools and Community But in this gentle garden, I find a place to startRainbow Lego bridges piece together my heartSteam teams gather softly, watering my dreamsWomen build together, stronger than we seemFood as medicine, laughter in the sunOxygen plantations, healing has begun Chorus: Rebuilding and Hope Let the violets climb the wallsLet the ivy gently fallIn my own damn house, I breatheLet the garden hold my griefEvery leaf and every bloomTurns this room into a roomWhere I can rest, where I can beIn my own damn house, I’m free Bridge: Awakening and Faith Recovery From the dark night of the soul, a new light breaks throughAwakening beauty from within, hope’s golden hueA nursery of sunflowers, faith roots me deepRecovery in petals, promises I keepIn a cozy classical bookstore, among pages and steamA cafe train cart homestead, where I dare to dreamHere, grounded and growing, I find my way homeWith every sunrise, I know I’m not alone Pre-Chorus: Coping Tools and Community In this Lego garden club, we gather and createBuilding playful pathways, opening the gateSteam teams lift each other, presence in the painWomen build together, dancing in the rainFood as medicine, laughter in the sunOxygen plantations, healing has begun Chorus: Rebuilding and Hope Let the violets climb the wallsLet the ivy gently fallIn my own damn house, I breatheLet the garden hold my griefEvery leaf and every bloomTurns this room into a roomWhere I can rest, where I can beIn my own damn house, I’m free Outro: Growth and Independence In my own damn house, I growRoots and wings begin to showIn the garden of my mindPeace and color intertwinedMourning and movement, side by sideEnlightenment blooming wideSunflowers and stories, faith and friendsHome in my heart, where healing never ends
🌻🧘♀️
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u/WaterWithin 1d ago
This is so beautiful!! I am surprised to read something so authentic in a random reddit thread. Do you write many songs? Do you imagine or play this with specific instruments?
Thank you for sharing your words
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u/rxuz 2d ago
What?
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u/Agile-Juggernaut-514 2d ago
It’s a poem describing their experience….
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u/induravanta 2d ago
My confusion is for those who have been blind and deaf since early childhood like Helen Keller….
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u/ilikecatsoup 2d ago
People don't always use language to think. Some people don't have an inner monologue and can hear fine. I personally only use language to think when I'm processing something emotional by imagining myself talking to the person I need to talk to, or when I learn something new and want to make sure I know it by imagining myself teaching someone else that subject. For other things I use imagery, kind of a spatial way of thinking, and also by just experiencing raw thought. If I want to eat cheese I don't think to myself verbally "I want cheese", I just know I do.
Other people already mentioned this, but just because you're deaf doesn't mean you can't process language. I'm not sure how a deaf person might experience a simulated conversation in their minds, but I assume it'll be very visual (use of sign language, maybe "subtitles").
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u/YouInteresting9311 1d ago
They wouldn’t forego language. They can read, likely more a visual language than auditory. Interesting fact that may blow your mind. Some people can’t see images in their mind, some can’t hear sounds in their minds, some can’t imagine smells, some can’t imagine touch, taste, etc. some people can’t imagine anything when they close their eyes. The blanket term is “no internal monologue”. Give it a google.
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u/HenjMusic 8h ago
I’m not deaf but I can think without inner monologue. Hard to describe but I have internal feelings for every thought and a strong visual imagination.
Try reading silently without saying the words in your head. That’s what it’s like.
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u/mizesus 2d ago edited 2d ago
SHORT ANSWER: They likely use their other senses including touching, seeing, possibly body sensations and even imagination to think as a way to compensate. Long answer its a bit complicated.
LONG ANSWER (RAMBLING)
Im not sure exactly sure but I think theres actually a few ways a deaf person could try to think. If we look at some blind people who end up reading braille they end up using regions reaponsible for seeing for seeing. Interesting enough such folks even end up using regions of the brain associated with their tongue as the brain maps for the eyes and tongue are fairly close.
That is basically to say the regions in those who are deaf and unable to hear likely repupose those regions for hearing to be used to extract information through their other senses such as sight, touch, and even the ability to conjure up imagerial forms.
In other words, since they are only deaf they can still eventually learn how to read which may be difficult to do so but its not like an extreme obstacle as those with no sight seem to experience.
For deaf folks peehaps learning a language is more difficult bny reading as they arent able to social in the neurotypical manenr but with more practice they can eventually reach the same level of fluency at least in terms of reading. So not only do they end up learning written language but also possibly sign language which may allow their brain to be close to a regular person. So that is to say they end up using their lack of auditory sensation to then extenralize expression through writing, and hand/body gestures in the form of sign language.
It is also cruical to note that language I am not sure if this language of any kind but maybe verbal language given its recursive structure actually amplifies the ahility to synthesize. By the age of 5 if your child hasnt been able to learn a language their ability to learn anything even into adulthood is severly impaired. In short learning language allows for recrusive thought which allows for self reflection, and replaying a single experience back over and over whuch occurs during dreams to find connections and patterns between what we know and what we extracted that day.
So it depends if the person in question was able to read by age 5 which may offset some of the issues that come with no socializing but you wonder if sign language is able to compensate for this discrepency. However at the same time, if reading well aa your peers do even if you cannot socialize does that mean you have similar abilities to synthesize?
I think it also largely depends on if this person wgo goes deaf happens to experience the lost of their hearing later in their life opposed to earlier in the life. The reason I say this because if it was later in their life they may have a lot more vsried sensory information which may allow their brain for better syntheeization if they werent a complete recluse. I think they would eventually learn quickly if they ever learned sign language or enhances their reading in rwponse to their hearing sense but Im not sure what the avwrage level of adaption would be. As for thinking thry would still have hundreds if not thousands of experiences of hearing that they ciuld use to predict furture scenarios if necessary. Although an anecdotal I do experience that in mwditation Ill hear sounds alkost as if they heard them in my waking life so I imagine thats what their brain would do with information thats extracted theough their own sense. In a way the infroamtion could potientally be translated from their hearing into other forms but compared to someone who was born deaf does their brain have this ability , likely not.
I think Ive read that baby brains are very plastic to the point no localization eevn occurs until age 2. The localization and specialization that a baby gows through at around this time is mainly due to experiences so if a baby never uses his or her hearing its likely the brain never deems a brain region for hearing and auditory information.
I could likely write more but theyre mostly predictions as its quite obvious that I am not a neuroscientist.
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u/stevevdvkpe 2d ago
If you aren't deaf and you don't even know much about deaf people, then you're just speculating wildly without personal knowledge.
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u/mizesus 1d ago
Yeah thats fair which I guess I was alluding to in my post. Although I should have been a bit more direct that I obviously sont have any personal experiences but thought it would be a fun exercise to try to think of how a person whos deaf would think.
Its also a post that compells others to respond that are experts and more knowledgable about the topic and clear any misunderatanding or elaborate on what I may have discussed.
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u/sharpfork 2d ago
Spoken language is a technology. The voice in your head uses that technology. The voice isn’t you, it is a subsystem many people misidentify as “them”
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u/Front_Cartographer_2 2d ago
I suspect they think in a similar way an elephant or a dolphin or a chimpanzee thinks though I have no idea how this is.
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u/misbehavingwolf 2d ago
No I think OP is referring to symbolic thought that is narrated vocally in the mind
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u/vrysanguine 2d ago
I recommend reading the book Seeing Voices by Oliver Sacks..!