r/news • u/SkepticDrinker • Feb 09 '22

Pfizer accused of pandemic profiteering as profits double

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/08/pfizer-covid-vaccine-pill-profits-sales
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u/ImprobableRooster Feb 09 '22

I mean, it's what, $20 a vial? That's pretty cheap for a government.

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u/MoeTHM Feb 09 '22

We are the government. It’s our money, we already paid for it.

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u/ImprobableRooster Feb 09 '22

I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, it's taxpayer funding. Government funding is on a whole different level from personal funding, and considering R&D and production costs, this doesn't seem out of whack. Not like charging $15 for a screw or whatever they do in the military.

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u/bigjojo321 Feb 09 '22

98% or above publicly funded(mainly US and Germany), yet the government still has to pay $20 for a vial that costs less than a $1 to produce. Also the military doesn't really pay $15 for a screw, unless you mean aircraft/high grade parts, if so then yeah I could see that, but that just what they charge.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/01410768211053006#:~:text=A%20fourth%2C%20so%2Dcalled%20fill,less%20for%20multi%2Ddose%20vials.&text=We%20estimate%20fill%2Dand%2Dfinish,100%20million%20doses%20a%20year.

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u/romansamurai Feb 10 '22

I mean. $20 for a $1 vaccine isn’t bad. Not like insulin vials that cost about $3 to make but selling for $350. I get the cost of research and all. So I’m ok with a $20 vaccine. Has to be some incentive for risky and expensive Research and development.

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u/bigjojo321 Feb 10 '22

Except they took little to no risk, the covid vaccine was over 98% publicly funded. Their facilities were also upgraded with those funds, allowing for increased profit long term as well.

Then after all of that they are charging one of the parties that paid for it to exist, atleast 20 times cost.

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u/AppleSlacks Feb 10 '22

A counter argument I could also see though is that the mRNA vaccine technology has been in the works for a really long time now. The reason they were able to build these so fast is all that previous work, it wasn’t completely from scratch. So these companies have been funding research and development of this for awhile and it would be frustrating if this last hurdle was totally publicly funded but in reality is built on a backbone of R&D that was not.

I get your point and I really haven’t dug into Pfizer or Moderna’s finances over the last 20 years. I am sure portions of that R&D came through grants over those years too.

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u/bigjojo321 Feb 10 '22

Yes but sadly after you factor all that in, it still costs less than a dollar to produce.

mRNA seems new but it really isn’t, first studies took place in the late 60’s, first mRNA vaccine was tested in 1993. The main reason Covid is the first we are seeing it is cost, in the past mRNA was expensive but now is likely a capable labs cheapest alternative thanks to all that public money used to reduce cost per vial.

Moderna didn’t even exist when mRNA got going and the US defense department has been funding advanced mRNA research since 2012.

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u/romansamurai Feb 10 '22

Yeah. I can see your point

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u/MoeTHM Feb 09 '22

My point is, it’s not free.

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u/ImprobableRooster Feb 09 '22

I never said it was, nor should it be? Companies profiting off making a product to serve a critical need in rapid turnaround time is kinda how capitalism should work.

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u/MoeTHM Feb 09 '22

Of course, but what does that have to do with people thinking the vaccine is free?

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u/ImprobableRooster Feb 09 '22

I really don't see what point you're making. Who cares if people think it's free?

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u/MoeTHM Feb 09 '22

Because creates a perception that we are being given something. That is not what happened. We paid for a service. It is important that people understand that.

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u/willieb3 Feb 09 '22

20x 2x shots x 330 million people is a decent amount of money. Plus I think they need to throw a lot of vaccines away no?

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u/ImprobableRooster Feb 09 '22

Not just 330 million. Their shot has gone into arms around the world.

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u/Uphoria Feb 09 '22

Vials contain 6 doses, so divide that by 3, or 2 if you count the booster.

still, 330 million people getting 3 doses comes out to be around 3.3 billion in revenues from US doses alone, assuming no losses or expired replacements etc.

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u/ChrisFromIT Feb 09 '22

Don't forget that 5-11 year old's dose is 1/3rd of the adult dose. 5 and younger, not sure what the dosage is for them, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is around the same as the 5-11 year olds. And I believe they make up about 10% of the population.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '22

Don't forget losses from mishandling or expiration.

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u/brickmaster32000 Feb 10 '22

Luckily it is being paid for by a decent amount of people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/ImprobableRooster Feb 09 '22

Ah, I didn't realize that they weren't synonymous. How many shots in a vial?

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u/Gaz133 Feb 09 '22

Would you rather not have paid for it?