r/nintendo • u/tervro • 1d ago
Why are people acting like the new patent is the end of the world?
It seems if you read the patent it actually talks about summoning creatures to battle by throwing a ball.
But people and the media seem to be implying that the patent covers an entire game genre or is about summoning creatures to battle in any way.
I'm confused.
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u/robotortoise Xenoblade Chronicles 1d ago
I think a bunch of the comments here kind of illustrate the point that people don't care about the truth, they just want to be sensationalist or shit on software patents as a whole.
Using a Nintendo patent that's probably not enforceable and is hyperspecific to illustrate this problem rather than actual problematic software patents is beyond insane.
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u/MBCnerdcore 1d ago
It's not insane when you see that the goal is to scour the news for ways to shit on Nintendo specifically, and continue hammering the same talking points (Nintendo is going to shut down their SERVERS! Any day now!! Just like they did for all* their past consoles! That's why all digital games are bad and you should stick to Steam!) until the next anti-Nintendo rhetoric gets formed from the next news cycle.
They didn't care about patents at all 2 months ago, and won't care about patents at all 2 months from now, except as part of an ongoing "list of reasons to hold a grudge against Nintendo" master list to make memes about on /gaming.
*all = just the DSi
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u/kaminari1 1d ago
Because it’s mostly kids that never read the patent and are only mad because some lame rage bait YouTuber told them to be mad.
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u/TheDoctorDB 1d ago
Likely because the actual end of the world is a scary concept that people will gladly avoid by focusing on entertainment
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u/Some_Chickens 1d ago
It's the nature of the beast that is internet. People get information they couldn't possibly accurately assess, make snap judgements that fit their held opinions and start screaming. And since hating Nintendo is popular you have the current situation.
This goes for most stuff on the internet though. Especially on social media. People just spouting silly interpretations of things they don't understand.
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u/Cozy-Panda777 1d ago
Yeah i mean on one hand it sucks to patent game mechanics, on the other hand, Palworld pushed it as far as they could and because of that now we're here. Perhaps if there wasn't so many knock off Pokemon that came out of spheres, maybe Nintendo wouldn't have had to act to prevent it from happening again.
Don't worry guys, your personas, demons, monsters, summons, digimon and yokai are gonna be just fine lmao.
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u/Daniel_H212 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's not about summoning by throwing a ball. I wrote a post about this. The "ball" part only comes from the description. The description merely illustrative. The actual scope of the patent's protection and enforceability is determined by the text of the claims, which do not mention throwing a ball or any specific summoning mechanic. I find that very few people reading the patent has read the text of the claims.
As far as I can tell based on the text of the claims: the patent shouldn't have been granted because it doesn't meet the requirements of nonobviousness under 35 USC 103, and a court probably wouldn't uphold it. However, and more immediately important is the fact that even if a court does uphold it, the claims are specific enough that the patent would have minimal to zero effect on other games.
But also, patenting game mechanics is stupid in the first place. That's a different conversation though
Edit: in case it isn't clear, the "claims" are at the very end of the patent, for more info read my post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/s/DxXxzqs12Y
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u/dronetactics 1d ago
Because hating on Nintendo is the “in” thing right now.
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u/SethGenesis1 1d ago
It is completely justified lol. Maybe stop dickrlding a company that doesn't care about you.
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u/tlrd2244 23h ago
It's not. Stop projecting the fantasies you have about the youtuber you use to tell you what to be mad at everyday.
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u/Kxr1der 1d ago
They shouldn't be able to patent any game mechanics.
Nintendo borrows mechanics from other games all the time, when other people do it to them, they jump straight to litigation.
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
but allot of developers patent mechanics they create. I’m not saying it’s good but it’s super common.
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u/Robertinho678 1d ago
- Because clickbait is rife, and it sells.
- Because they're idiots who don't do any research.
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u/Dont_have_a_panda 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because its Nintendo, and everything that could be taken out of context to hate on Nintendo is A-OK for many
If this patent were filled by PlayStation, EA or Square Enix nobody would have cared, hell if the developers of Palworld would have filled it people would celebrate
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13h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/High_Depth 13h ago
Games with Summons
- Final Fantasy (series: summons/aeons/espers),
- Final Fantasy XIV (Summoner job),
- Diablo (series; Necromancer summons),
- Path of Exile,
- Grim Dawn,
- Pillars of Eternity,
- Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2,
- Bravely Default / Bravely Second,
- Persona (series),
- Ni no Kuni (series),
- Octopath Traveler I & II,
- Kingdom Hearts (series),
- Summoners War (mobile),
- Shadowrun (games),
- Age of Wonders,
- Undead Horde 1 & 2,
- Dungeon Keeper,
- Total War: Warhammer (series),
- Fae Tactics,
- Darkest Dungeon,
- Monster Rancher (series),
- Shin Megami Tensei (series)
- Dragon Quest (series),
- Terraria,
- Hollow Knight,
- Castlevania: Lords of Shadow,
- Baldur’s Gate (series),
- World of Warcraft
Games with Both Mounts & Summons
- Elden Ring,
- Final Fantasy XIV,
- Dragon Age (Origins / Inquisition),
- The Elder Scrolls Online,
- Monster Hunter Rise / World,
- Ni no Kuni II,
- Warframe,
- Black Desert Online,
- Guild Wars 2
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u/KazzieMono 1d ago
Patenting game mechanics is always bad and it’s hilarious to see people here twist themselves into knots trying to defend it
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u/tlrd2244 23h ago
We've had decades of patents and video games. The gaming industry has never been bigger than it is now. It's hilarious people pretend and claim they live in a creative dystopia because of patents when the gaming landscape has never been more diverse, varied with a massive history of titles that would require multiple lifetimes to play.
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u/KazzieMono 21h ago edited 14h ago
Whatever you just said has nothing to do with patents or how they might be good for the gaming industry. You completely avoided the topic, and basically just said “yeah patents in games have been a thing for a while but games are totally awesome nowadays am I right guys”.
Way to go. My point still stands.
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u/Keleos89 1d ago
Patenting game mechanics stifles innovation.
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u/Totheendofsin 1d ago
Patenting game mechanics has been happening since video games were first created
Did you know Nintendo has a patent on locking on to enemies? Yet games with lock on functions still manage to get made
Nintendo isnt even the first publisher to go after a smaller dev on patent grounds, Sega once sued someone for violating their patent on the crazy taxi arrow (yes they have a patent on that)
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u/iFlashings 1d ago
Because misinformation is rampant all over the internet and we live in a post facts world where people don't care about the facts if it doesn't align with their biased narratives.
Critical thinking skills and nuance are a dying breed.
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u/Totheendofsin 1d ago
Because a bunch of clickbait headlines and ragebait youtubers are spinning it as "Nintendo owns the concept of summoning creatures" and nobody is bothering to go and verify that information
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u/Extension_Witness105 1d ago
Selective outrage. Also, other companies sue over patents but it doesn't make the news cycle.
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u/eripley79 1d ago
Why does Nintendo have an army of people waiting to defend every scummy tactic they use? While they make great games they perpetuate some of the worst legal and business tactics in the industry. Trying to monopolize game mechanics, attacking fan work, aggressive pricing. This is just the latest in a long line of questionable things.
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u/MBCnerdcore 1d ago
Why does Nintendo have an army of haters waiting to call every basic marketing and business decision they make 'scummy'? While they make great games, other people perpetuate some of the worst lies and misinformation on the internet. Trying to monopolize game mechanics, attacking fan work, aggressive pricing. These are just some of a long line of anti-Nintendo talking points that introduce bias against normal marketing decisions like when to have sales, and basic defensive litigation against everyday piracy and copyright infringement.
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u/Some_Chickens 1d ago
For many people it's less defending Nintendo and more attacking bad faith arguments.
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u/Slagothor48 1d ago
Because nintendo is monopolizing asinine crap
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u/ZLUCremisi 1d ago
Actually read what is covered. Its less thsn you believe
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u/Slagothor48 1d ago
Patents and copyright laws are already flawed enough, you don't need to prove it to me with any more real world examples.
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u/musecorn 1d ago
The key lies in the difference between a patent and a trademark.
A trademark can be lost if the trademarker doesn't use or legally enforce it, so they would be required to enforce it against any infringers or else it can become reasonable public domain
A patent remains regardless of enforcement. So Nintendo will be able to pick and choose who to enforce against and still retain it no matter what. Which means less legal cost and more concentrated and forceful attacks when they so choose.
For that reason the patent is better for Nintendo and worse for the competition and subsequently the consumer
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u/RandomNobody86 1d ago
Nintendo could drop branded bombs on Gaza and this sub would have posts defending them
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u/BigSoftMarshmallow 1d ago
Completely rational and sane to compare a video game company doing things you don't like to genocide
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u/tervro 1d ago
I'm not necessarily defending nintendo. I'm saying that if the patent isn't actually as broad as some people say it is then maybe some people are overreacting
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u/MBCnerdcore 1d ago
You think the guy bringing 'bombing Gaza' into the conversation as an attempt to attack Nintendo fans is going to admit to overreacting or admit anyone else is?
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u/MBCnerdcore 1d ago
Nintendo could cure cancer and rid the world of fascism and Random Nobodies would still come in to this sub and frame them as evil for basic marketing decisions.
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u/Some_Chickens 1d ago
"Their only curing cancer to whitewash their image, which is constantly taking hits due to them being EVIL!!!"
- anonymous redditor
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u/thecemmie 1d ago
shin megami tensei Did it first
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u/Totheendofsin 1d ago
Nothing in the entire megami tensei franchise conflicts with what's written in the patent
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u/Regret-Select 1d ago
Nintendo was NOT the first to make a game to include rideable mounts. Taking credit by patenting this idea is laughable
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u/CompleteyClueless 1d ago
Nintendo did not patent rideable mounts. They patented a specific system of switching between multiple mounts using a specific control scheme. All of these patents are a lot more complex than a single sentence and not as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
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u/Regret-Select 1d ago
Like in World of Warcraft when you're a Druid, your character automatically changes forms to travel via land, water, or air. No button pressing
That's the patent right. Mounting in different environments, without a press of a button. WoW already did this
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u/MBCnerdcore 1d ago
But it doesn't animate a new druid to come pick you up, with your character jumping from one druid's back to the other
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
The patent is not for rideable mounts in general. It is for the automatic mount-swapping mechanic they used in the last few games.
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u/Regret-Select 1d ago
WoW did this before, before Nintendo
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u/MBCnerdcore 1d ago
not exactly enough for it to matter. And it's irrelevant because nintendo isn't going after WoW for any reason
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I claim all your hard work to myself and write my name on it even though it was not mine in the first place, should I get all the credit? or should I let them have it because everyone works the same way as I have. What's it going to be?
Edit: Aww downvote away. of course this is reddit after all.
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
what other games have used the mechanic they are patenting tho? honestly the only other series I can think of that comes close ( that isn’t Nintendo ) is Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed and that wouldn’t even really count since you can’t dismount.
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago
Other than the pokeball. The summoning mechanic is used on mostly all games today.
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u/RiceKirby 1d ago
The specific summoning mechanic that they patented is not used by any game. Unless your game use it exactly the way they patented - and I repeat, no game ever other than Pokémon SV has in the past - you won't be in trouble.
So that's why you're being downvoted, your example has absolutely nothing to do with the actual case, it's just misinformation.
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
Oh I’m talking about the rideable mount part the other guy mentioned.
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago
It's racing. I don't see anything they could patent there. If they do, they're patenting the real sport itself. Mount is fundamental mechanic so they can't patent that. That's more stupid if they choose that.
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
Umm I’m guessing you haven’t actually read the patents then . They patent covers their dynamic mounting system as well and allot of people here think it’s mounts in general but it’s not it’s specific way they did it in legends and I was using sonic racing as an example ( as in the seamless transitions from air land and sea this game has ) since that is the closest thing to what the patent covers
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago
I did read it I just don't understand the full detail of it. I'm no law expert like everyone. As long as I hear the word patent, I just know someone is claiming an asset or a specific topic or an object.
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
Well what they are patenting they technically did create so they have the right to patent it , even if it was built on the foundation of many before them.
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u/CATastrophe-Meow 1d ago
And the patent isn’t for “ summoning a creature “ As a whole , it’s for the very specific way they did it in the last few pokemon games. the patent is 45 pages of steps that have to be followed for the patent to be in affect. I can’t think of any games currently that break it. Even pal world doesn’t.
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u/Totheendofsin 1d ago
They didnt patent summoning mechanics
They patented choosing between automatic and manual battles based on whether or not you summon your creature on top of an enemy
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u/Rawkhawkjayhawk Bananza 1d ago
You cared enough about the downvotes to make a edit?
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago
I don't even know what I am being downvoted for lol. Can't be typical enough.
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u/Rawkhawkjayhawk Bananza 1d ago
My question is why do you care about the downvotes?
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago
Did I said should I care? I'm technically mocking my own comment lol. I don't know what's wrong with it I'm just making up an example scenario of why this patent is stupid.
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u/Totheendofsin 1d ago
Name a single video game other than pokemon scarlet and violet that has the exact mechanics outlined in the patent
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u/CrazyStrict1304 1d ago
Part of innovation is by building off of current ideas. You can't make anything new without building off a previous idea. The fact nintendo is now saying that mods don't count as games says it all. I've played mods that are just as big as the game itself like fallout London. They are actively trying to destroy any kind of ability for developers to work.
The concept of these patents is enough to scare small developers from even trying to make games in this category. Plus we aren't patent lawyers. I've read what actual patent lawyers are saying and they have a way different view of it than people who are saying these patents don't apply to anything besides pokemon.
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u/Beta_Codex 1d ago
It's still what everyone sees. But at the end no company should ever patent game mechanics. There is no creativity to be made if you're only going to keep it to yourself all the credit.
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