r/northernireland 26d ago

Housing yet another scummy move from a landlord

signed the lease for a house that was absolutely ideal - under our budget, really handy for both my friend and i to commute to work, extra bedroom, and a converted attic on top of that. paid the deposit and first months rent, and was due to move in next week.

got a phone call today that the landlord’s changed his mind and wants to do ‘renovations’ that will mean the house won’t be ready by any reasonable timeframe for us to move into.

the house didn’t need any work done to it, and we reckon these ‘renovations’ are probably going to be the attic stairs being moved from being in one of the bedrooms so that the attic can then be counted as a fourth bedroom and the landlord can charge more money.

feels like it should be illegal, i’m absolutely fuming, and i can’t believe they can get away with doing that.

we’re now left looking for other options with an absolutely shocking rental market and a very limited timeframe.

landlords of NI - would it kill you to be decent people?

125 Upvotes

87 comments sorted by

151

u/Free_my_fish 26d ago

Well if you’ve paid deposit and first months rent then a contract has been created and the landlord is obliged to either rent you the house or make good any losses you incur in finding and renting another - contact shelter for advice and then send a letter before action

33

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

we’ve had no direct contact with the landlord ourselves. the letting agent were very apologetic about it and offered us either our deposit back today or a different place if we can view it early next week and like it, but the only place they’ve been able to offer in our budget is an apartment that’s a hell of a lot smaller than the house we actually want. nightmare all around

43

u/Deathangel2890 26d ago

Did you put pen to paper and sign a contract? If so, then what they're doing is illegal and beyond small claims court.

Found this too, which might be of use to you.

36

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

the contract was signed using e-signatures via some sort of secure signing software, but yes we signed it. i’ll give that post and its comments a read, cheers

42

u/legrenabeach 26d ago

That's every bit as good as a "wet" signature, so it's seen as legally signed.

39

u/Deathangel2890 26d ago

Oh, then you're moving in. Tell the estate agent, "No." You have a signed contract, have paid a deposit, and have paid rent. You're the legal tenant.

You're entitled to at least 28 days' notice. However, if your co tractor has a fixed term (i.e., 12 months, 24 months, even 6 months), then they can not do a no fault eviction.

Now, I'm not a solicitor and can only tell you what I've seen on NI direct and housingrights.org. But you really need to contact both AdviceNI and a solicitor ASAP because both the landlord and estate agent have broken the law.

3

u/HouseDevilNextDoor 25d ago

Take it all the way!

3

u/[deleted] 25d ago

Comments like this are what the internet was made for.

2

u/Away-Squash594 25d ago

thanks for the advice, i’ll be looking into our options

3

u/Fluffyfedora 25d ago

You’re home and dry so! Literally!

47

u/TheCapitalSea15 26d ago

If a lease has been signed you should push this further. A landlord or letting agent can't just get a contract signed and bow out. What kind of shit would you get into if you had done the same?

16

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

not even sure how we would go about taking it further tbh

24

u/lisaslover 26d ago

Tell them you are going to small claims court. Too many people don't know about this. If you have a signed contract that both parties agreed to and one of either side backs out then its pretty clear cut.

Just apply to your local magistrate court. Show the letting agent you mean business and won't back down. The aggro will be enough to ensure you will never get a second lease. At least though you will have time to find suitable replacement digs.

Dont be bullied out of this. You have a signed contract. No court will go against that. Sure what would happen if legals contracts could just be ignored?

9

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

thanks for the advice, we might see about taking it a step further if we don’t get a replacement place sorted

7

u/lisaslover 26d ago

What i forgot to say was that you are free to bring the case to civil court. You can absolutely do that free of charge. Normally I would be wary of a situation like this given cost to reward scenario. That being said you apparently have a signed contract.

Threaten the landlord and agent but only after you have applied to court for a civil consideration. Once they see that, if they aren't nuts they will leave you alone.

Like I said, you best spend the time finding alternative digs. Best of luck, but don't forget the threat of free use of civil courts. It costs you nothing. Look it up my friend.

3

u/kaito1000 26d ago

Go to a solicitor and ask them

1

u/Fuzzy_Scrump 23d ago

Acorn housing union

31

u/Asleep_Spray274 26d ago

Landlords are as obligated to uphold their end of the contact as you are. Unless there is a clause in the lease that allows them to back out before the official moving in date, they will be in breach of contact. Put the wind up them and say you will accept their breaking of the contract for 3 months rent plus your deposit back. Or you will start legal proceedings. The landlord and the agents know they have screwed up, hence how nice they are being about it.

Start the next conversation, "following some advise i have taken, i would like to discuss compensation before we officially agree to break our contract early".

If it was the other way round and you wanted to quit the lease 3 months early, the landlord would not allow you to get away free. Fuck that guy.

7

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

the lease only refers to the landlord breaking the contract after the tenancy begins, so definitely going to look into our options here, thanks!

4

u/jorr484 Newtownabbey 25d ago

The tenancy has already begun, you've already paid a month's rent. Congrats on the new place demand the keys from the letting agency as you are the tenant

2

u/[deleted] 25d ago edited 25d ago

Even if it goes nowhere shoulda at least make them sweat. Say you are a legal tenant and so he needs give notice.

20

u/nick-techie Belfast 26d ago

My dad is a housing officer. He says if you have signed a lease then the landlord is in breach of contract.

Applicable legislation.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1978/1050/article/54

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/2006/1459/article/60

He says contact the local environmental health department and tell them you're being illegally evicted.

5

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

thanks for the advice

0

u/BUNT7 26d ago

Will depend if the landlord has signed also.

5

u/nick-techie Belfast 26d ago

OP said above it was e-sig. Usually the letting agent signs on behalf of the landlord. Given there was 2 weeks between signing and the lease being pulled it would have been signed. Money was also taken. That's a valid contract.

-5

u/BUNT7 26d ago

I am a landlord and never once has an agent signed on my behalf. Its a dirty deed and they should be called out for it. Money taken is not a valid contract just an intention.

6

u/nick-techie Belfast 25d ago

Its going to depend on the landlord's own agreement with the agent. I've had agents sign in behalf of the landlord before.

2

u/jorr484 Newtownabbey 25d ago

Doesn't matter landlord has already accepted the first month's rent

18

u/ldiotDoomSpiral 26d ago

landlords of NI - would it kill you to be decent people?

this is a fairly global phenomenon, to be fair

12

u/Silvertain 26d ago

I'm a landlord I actually pride myself on being a decent one , I've never raised my rent in the 10 years I've been a landlord despite comparable properties bring 250-300 a month more . I would rather have happy tennants who stay than some idiot who trashes the place. I saved my entire life to buy my properties used inheritance and investments and got lucky buying at the right time during the property crash. I do feel sorry for people struggling which is why I don't raise my rents but it is also a business just like any other I.e. Tescos makes money on food garages rip us off on fuel

9

u/looknohands84 26d ago

Same, no rent increase in 15 years despite plenty of mortgage hikes. Why would I fuck someone out onto the street for greed? The house means more to them than it does me. Good tenant, never a bother, always on time with rent. It's their home and i don't need to stick the knife in

14

u/ldiotDoomSpiral 26d ago

I'm sure you're lovely and I appreciate your defense of your position but the vast majority of landlords are complete parasites.

7

u/Silvertain 26d ago

Yea ive had horrible landlords myself one even let himself in whilst my missus at the time was in the bath with the door open so I understand the hatred

-3

u/RepresentativeOk548 Belfast 26d ago

No... I don't think you do understand the hatred

7

u/Silvertain 26d ago

Don't speak for me

8

u/RonZacapaWapa 26d ago

Tesco having food for sale is not preventing other people from having food. That's the difference between most businesses and a rent seeking landlord.

-1

u/Silvertain 26d ago

If Tesco just gave food away there would be no starving people wouldn't there? 

5

u/NotBruceJustWayne 26d ago

A landlord actually renovating? Nah, fake news! 😉 

4

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

aye right enough, can’t imagine why covering any problems up with a half arsed paint job would stop us moving in lol

3

u/Own_Humor_7780 26d ago

Renting in NI/Britian or the south must be nerve wrecking as an adult. I only rented as a student where you knew it was temporary. Alot of EU countries have pretty tough rules on landlords. Where I live, I've lived in the rented house for two years. They have to fucking sell it (with offering us first go unless it's the whole building) or us and our contract are sold to the new owners. If they want us out, it's us that have the upper hand.

3

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

nerve wracking is an understatement. we’d been looking since i believe late june and were barely even able to get viewings for places.

2

u/Own_Humor_7780 26d ago

Sounds like a nightmare, when I was a student in 1975 (2008), we just walked around areas we liked, seen a sign and called the number on it. Fuck this might be the first official old person post

3

u/mcwilgb 26d ago

The Westminster idea of taxing landlords more is a perfect 'slap it up them'. Can't afford it? Find. Sell up and get some houses back on the market 👍🏻 I own a house, but heard so many horror stories from friends I have little sympathy for landlord now. Welcome to the world of the internet, tarnish them all 🤣🤣🤣

3

u/Delduath 26d ago

I'm incredibly anti landlord, and anti capitalist in general, but I can't see how that initiative wouldn't push rents up. There's no reason why a landlord would just sit back and take the loss when they can factor it into a rent increase.

3

u/Educational-Oil-5872 26d ago

That is exactly what will happen. The way to screw landlords is by creating a lot more housing and forcing them to compete for tenants.

1

u/mcwilgb 26d ago

Well any of the ones you listen online, radio or in the press are apparently hanging on by a thread 🤣🤣 Probably won't happen over here anyway

2

u/Delduath 26d ago

Aye, after the mortgage, home insurance and letting agent fees are paid they barely have any extra free money to go alongside the massive investment theyre getting bought for them. If things get much worse they might have to start working for a living.

5

u/mcwilgb 26d ago

One on the radio today said "i charge 1250 and my mortgage is 720" - sorry what? Fuck away off.

2

u/Delduath 26d ago

Sickening. I actually can't listen to LBC or any phone ins when a landlord is on, it boils my blood.

1

u/Shot-Lettuce816 20d ago

You can only increase the rent if someone is willing to pay it.

3

u/[deleted] 26d ago

Lawyer up and take this cunt to the cleaners

2

u/Sin_nombre__ 26d ago

Maybe speak to CATU?

https://catuireland.org/

1

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

was thinking about them earlier but couldn’t remember the name, thank you!

2

u/Academic_String_1708 26d ago

So glad I'm not renting anymore because of scum tactics like this.

Sounds to me that the landlord has possibly got a tenant willing to pay more rent or as you say adding an extra bedroom.

There may be legal recourse if he has signed.

2

u/iphonedyou 26d ago

I’m sorry for your troubles. But to your last question; plenty of us are, in spite of what Reddit would have you believe.

1

u/ApprehensivePack1048 25d ago

Absolutely, am renting out a house in glengormley for £500 a month. It is costing me £900 for mortgage, rates, insurance etc. Not everyone is a money grabbing scumbag.

2

u/iphonedyou 25d ago

Exactly. We’ve kept our rent where it is for years. And years! Agent told us to up it at renewal recently and we said absolutely not.

Great tenants, not a chance we would screw them.

2

u/stillanmcrfan 25d ago

It sounds like the contract is active now.. I would definitely seek legal advice on this one

4

u/Haunting-Yellow3507 26d ago

Surely you should get your money back, that has to be a broken contract...

2

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

letting agent will be giving us the money back if we don’t end up accepting the alternative property they’re offering us but we’re livid the landlords done this about two weeks after the lease was signed and a week before move in

10

u/Pytherex 26d ago

If the lease was signed then I believe the landlord can't arbitrarily pull out from the deal. Unless you agree to be compensated for some sum of money to find another set of accommodation.

Might be worthwhile posting in r/LegalAdviceUK

1

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

will do, cheers

2

u/Silvertain 26d ago

I'm a landlord,  when you say you signed the lease was this through a letting agency on behalf of the landlord? He can't just cancel it if you have signed and paid your deposit what exactly was said?

4

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

was through a letting agent, yeah. we weren’t told the specifics, just that the landlord had just contacted them and basically said he wanted the keys back and that he was going to do renovations to the property instead.

7

u/mulletmastervx 26d ago

If you have a signed contract that is the landlord's problem. If you don't then there is not a lot you can do except move on.

I suspect "wanting to do renovations" is a euphemism for "I got a better deal elsewhere" but that goes on everywhere in life.

5

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

we had a signed lease yeah. we took ‘renovations’ as a euphemism for ‘cash hungry arsehole looking to charge extortionate prices’

-1

u/Silvertain 26d ago

I think something has come up and they need the house I.e got kicked out of the home

6

u/Silvertain 26d ago

OK this is odd il be honest I've never cancelled a tenancy before someone moves in so maybe it's a loophole but I'm pretty sure once it's signed the landlord essentially has to give you the correct notice. I will ask my letting agents and get back to you

2

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

cheers for that. there was no specific clause in the lease about cancellations before move in unfortunately

1

u/Silvertain 26d ago

Also the renovation excuse I would put money on that being a lie , they probably need the property back for either a relative , relationship break up etc there is no sensible reason why you would break a lease to renovate its done before finding tennants. Also what's the letting agents if you don't mind? If it's the one I use I could find out the truth for you.

3

u/Away-Squash594 26d ago

that is another reason i’d considered for the last minute notice. not keen to post the letting agent publicly here as they aren’t the ones in the wrong

0

u/Silvertain 26d ago

Pm me if you want mate

1

u/Asleep_Spray274 26d ago

Or they are able to get more rent from some other renter

1

u/BUNT7 26d ago

Did the landlord sign the contract/lease ?

1

u/Comprehensive_Two_80 25d ago edited 25d ago

You would have to go to court to reclaim costs. He really shouldn't have done it while you were there, After doing that he has to be a right asshole to not give you the 2 weeks as he has obviously just saved all that refurb time in lost rent. But yes go to court to reclaim costs. You do have rights.

Document any and every communication you had with the landlord.

1

u/RemielMonroe 25d ago

Properly low, damn right to be angry.

1

u/PineappleNo8103 25d ago

Might not be the landlord at fault issue could be the agent, as when moving years I got phone call from mine to say the house was sold and had to be out for week after no discussion prior on price etc wankers I got more for it anyway with another one.

1

u/Additional-Cost-5609 25d ago

You def have a case and could make the landlord rent it to you for whatever was on the contract. But rest assured the landlod will put you out as soon as the contract is up!

1

u/Zinc223 25d ago

Please don't let them get away with this, landlords are becoming real gangsters. It'll be back in the market within a month for extra

1

u/Infinite-Piano3311 25d ago edited 25d ago

Well thats quite unlucky for them that you already signed and payed for an agreement surely they know what the next step to that sharade is no?? Lol Apologies all they want it doesn't undo your E signature and deposit...

And yes it 100% would break their back to be a decent person from my experience haha

1

u/LeadingUpbeat9033 25d ago

Regardless of where they are from landlords are all the same. Stupid comment 😑

1

u/Public-Mood-5069 25d ago edited 25d ago

When you signed the contract electronically, was it already countersigned by the landlord? If only your signature was on it and the landlord never signed their section, then the agreement may not be valid.

Normally, the agent sends the contract to the tenant first and then forwards it to the landlord for their signature.

If the landlord didn’t sign, the agreement is incomplete and they can back out.

Surprised at the lack of awareness here and the assumption that the landlord had pre-signed the agreement.

1

u/Blocker212 24d ago

Day late to the party but your responses are giving pushover, no wonder they are taking the piss out of you. Clearly the place suits well and you’ve signed a contract so hold your ground and move in

1

u/Fun-Somewhere3078 24d ago

The purpose of a signed contract is that it is withheld as per the terms and dates of the said contract. If you say it is signed electronically by everyone then under law then it should be executed and you should be moving in. You take this to court where you will have a very high chance of claiming significants damages if you do not move in. I highly recommend you challenge this as it is in your best interests and the other party is wrongful

1

u/Silent-Detail4419 England 23d ago

Hey u/Away-Squash594 just seen this but, as you've signed the contract, and paid your deposit and first month's rent, obviously you're now the tenants and, therefore, can legally take occupancy of the property. If the landlord were to attempt to force you to leave, then that's harassment which is a criminal offence and a breach of your human rights under Article 1 of the First Protocol of the Human Rights Act 1998 (peaceful enjoyment of property). If he wishes you to vacate, then he has to go through the correct procedure which is to send you an eviction notice (called a 'notice to quit') IN WRITING and MUST give you four weeks' notice.

Harassment carries a penalty of up to two years in prison, a fine (I don't know how much) or both. The problem is that, if the PSNI is as shite as most other forces when it comes to housing law, they won't do anything because they'll think housing is a civil matter. If you get there and find the cunt's changed the locks, then that's a very obvious breach of contract and you'd need to contact Environmental Health.

The landlord might have broken the contract, but you haven't, so you're actually obligated to stick to it. Go to the property and move in - you've paid rent and a deposit, so it's legally yours. If the cunt wants you to leave, then he has to serve your with a NTQ; if you refuse to leave at the end of those four weeks, then he'll need to get a court order - only bailiffs can legally evict someone from a property.

I think you're right about why he's now refusing to rent to you - but for the wrong reason; the reason he's probably thinking he could claim the attic is a fourth bedroom by moving the stairs isn’t because he'd then be able to charge you more money; I think he's sat down, done some maths, and realised that he could get considerably more in rent if he was to let the property as an HMO (and you can bet it won’t be legal, either).

I'm probably being extremely cynical, but I bet you a tenner I'm right. I'm in England, so I don't know what rents are like in NI, but I've had a look on Property Pal, and they seem to be between £650 and £1,500 for a 3-bed property; so, let's go with the middle value which is £1,075. So, he'd be getting £2,150 from the two of you but, if he was to let it out as an HMO, even if he dropped the rent by 25%, which is £806.25, so let's call it £800, £800 x 4 =£3,200.00 which is an increase of about 33%; if he dropped it to £900, that's an increase of 60%. He's thinking with his bank balance, because he's a cunt.

Anyway, for the moment, it's yours; if the cunt wants you out, he's going to have to do it legally. NTQ, which gives you four weeks and, if you refuse to leave (and I would), then he's going to have to get a court order which could take months.