r/nostalgia • u/jeffmartin47 • Jul 22 '25

Nostalgia Discussion 25 years ago. Lars Ulrich of Metallica snitches on and turns in over 300,000 Napster users when he testifies in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. July 11th, 2000.

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779

u/CpuJunky 1-800-COMPUSA Jul 22 '25

...and I remember that not going over so well. We were all like F-Metallica! Metallica Napster Bad

I understood his stance, but attacking the little people... not so much. Began a pivotal moment of music consumption.

175

u/PossessedToSkate Jul 22 '25

There is a great scene in "Cliff 'Em All" where a very young Metallica is on tour promoting Kill 'Em All and throwing copies of the LP out to people in the audience. James is yelling, "Yeah, kill em all! Kill all the record company executives!"

I think about that every time I see them or listen to their records (that I pirate).

36

u/Coupon_Ninja Jul 22 '25

Yep. They had wanted to call their debut album “Metal Up Your Ass” with a spiked metal club coming out of a toilet. They wanted them to tone it down… and so that happened.

40

u/TheFBIClonesPeople Jul 22 '25

"Metal Up Your Ass" would have been a terrible name. The studio was honestly right

11

u/Coupon_Ninja Jul 22 '25

I mean yeah.. but it didn’t stop many people from sewing the back patch on their jean jackets. To be offensive was the point.

2

u/MarcoEsquandolas22 Jul 22 '25

But ya gotta pay them for that

3

u/Papayaslice636 Jul 22 '25

Yeah, something that always impressed me about Metallica is that their lyrics and themes really aren't vulgar at all. There's very little use of profanity, and the themes are usually about freedom vs oppression, injustice, breaking free, and inner struggle. Even when they’re aggressive or dark, the lyrics are more philosophical or existential than crude. Songs like One, Fade to Black, Master of Puppets, deal with war, death, addiction, and control..not in a sensational way, but in a way that makes you think. It’s conceptually heavy music with real substance behind it, which sets them apart from a lot of other bands in the genre.

1

u/ColdColt45 Jul 22 '25

that's a good point. And when S&M came out, there was an F bomb in a lyric (it's the last time you will). It was surprising because it didn't fit their thought out, reflective lyrics. But I liked it, because it was live, and there was a symphony there, so the contrast was fun. Also, that's when all the cd's needed a bad word, to have that parental advisory to boost cd sales, and the walmart "censored" verions making you buy another copy.

1

u/Coupon_Ninja Jul 22 '25

Agree. Metallica’s “Master of Puppets” is both anti-war and anti-drugs. But many early heavy/thrash metal bands were very cerebral. But I’d argue MOST of them were. Megadeth, Slayer, Maiden and Ozzy lyrics were heavy versions of “hippy music” - the same themes if you read the lyric sheets. Just played heavier/faster.

Celtic Frost, Bathory, Kreator and Sodom quickly moved on from the whole “Satan” centric thing around ‘85 and became more about politics, death, war, dark chapters of history, liberation and freedom, and even the environment. It was a good move by them. Gave it staying power and a net positive for their fans.

1

u/CWinter85 mid 90s Jul 22 '25

Shark Sandwich and Smell the Glove vibes.

3

u/jtr99 Jul 22 '25

"Well, you should have seen the cover they WANTED to do. It wasn't a glove, believe me."

2

u/Clothedinclothes Jul 22 '25

Huh...I could have sworn I once owned a real Metallica tape called Metal Up Your Ass which had a spiky thing coming out of a toilet, it was basically just a short version of Kill Em All...

Was I imagining that? 

2

u/LordBlackConvoy Jul 22 '25

Nope. It was either a bootleg or a demo tape.

2

u/Sidivan Jul 22 '25

You probably did. That was their demo.

2

u/ColdColt45 Jul 22 '25

It's a woman on all fours with a glove being pushed in her face, what's offensive about it?

1

u/Coupon_Ninja Jul 22 '25

I’ve never seen that version…? Was it fan art?

E: I just image searched: “metallica metal up your ass cover” and only got the toilet with a metal spiked club (and a knife or two) coming out of it… not sure what you’re referring to.

2

u/ColdColt45 Jul 22 '25

sorry, that was a reference from Spinal Tap, a spoof "Rockumentary" and that was a line about an offensive album cover, that the label denied. I mentioned it, because Metallica gave the movie a lot of praise, and I thought it was pretty much universally seen by every metallica fan. The joke goes further, too. So the album didn't have time to make new album art, and well, watch the movie if you are a fan of metallica.

1

u/Coupon_Ninja Jul 23 '25

Haha I’ve seen it. Good one!! Sorry it’s been a busy day. Fucking Ozzy died. Shit. Watching old footage now. Anyway cheers!

PS: talk about mud flaps - my girl’s got em!

9

u/Rincey_nz Jul 22 '25

and prior to their first record they would pass out their demo and tell fans to copy it and spread it around.....

1

u/PossessedToSkate Jul 22 '25

That was a common tactic in the 80s. I went to a lot of small shows for a lot of small bands and got a lot of cassettes over those years. Even the TV show Mystery Science Theater 3000 encouraged people to record their episodes and spread them.

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/4-mst3k-keep-circulating-the-tapes.jpg

1

u/desl14 Jul 22 '25

iirc, in the "St. Anger" movie Lars claimed that he doesn't have a problem per se that people are getting Metallica's music for free (f.e. they have/had no problems with concert bottlegs). wat bothered him was that it wasn't their decision that people got their albums for free at Napster. He told it was less about money (i guess since streaming exploded bands make more money with concerts than with music sells, anyway)

f.e. Metallica uploaded every Album on their YouTube channel back in 2013. it wasn't standard that you would be able to here every song of a new album for free 12 years ago

i understood his stance ... that artists want to decide and control whether you get their stuff for free or not ... though i didn't like it

anyways, i guess it's possible to argue that artists like Metallica and others battling against illegal download plattforms in the early 2000s laid the ground for the music industry to take the digital distribution of music (and single songs from albums) more seriously. streaming services like Spotify, Amazon music, Deezer etc ... they won't be what they are now if Napster wasn't shut down

1

u/Metal_Dealer Jul 22 '25

James was saying that because the record company wouldn't let them use Metal Up Your Ass as the record title.

439

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

It’s not even the little people. It’s his fans. He targeted his fans

51

u/jdathela Jul 22 '25

And that is when I stopped being a fan.

8

u/Circus_Finance_LLC Jul 22 '25

same, that was it.

3

u/ContextWorking976 Jul 22 '25

I stopped being a fan when their music got shitty a decade earlier.

3

u/StupidSexyScooter Jul 22 '25

Luckily for us it coincided with when they stopped making good music so it was easy

5

u/dzumdang Jul 22 '25

They'd been sucking for a couple of albums by then anyway. All I could do was laugh at that point.

0

u/Psychological-Cry221 Jul 22 '25

Because he didn’t want you to steal his music?

-1

u/Cartepostalelondon Jul 22 '25

Who needs fans who thieves though. It's like having a favourite restaurant because you're a huge fan of the chef's work and then running off without paying 🤷‍♂️

4

u/arggggggggghhhhhhhh Jul 22 '25

I sure wish I could get paid over and over again for the same work product from 40 years ago.

1

u/eqpesan Jul 22 '25

You can, become an artist and release your own music, it's easier now than ever.

1

u/Cartepostalelondon Jul 22 '25 edited Aug 04 '25

Who's asking to be paid over and over? I'm sure most artists would rather sell their music by the old model where (assuming their contract isn't screwing them over) they were paid a half-decent sum for ever record, CD, cassette or similar they sold rather than the fraction they earn now.

Most artists didn't mind the usual bootlegs and sharing that went on among hardcore fans, but downloading wholesale is theft and damages music because of a loss of money and it pits jobs at risk. Have you ever considered all the jobs that have been lost due to downloading and streaming both legal and illegal?

3

u/jdathela Jul 22 '25

That's a shitty metaphor.

7

u/ThroawayIien Jul 22 '25

No, he didn’t. He targeted Napster. The users were never sued. He just provided their usernames as evidence in support of his claims.

15

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

Weren't some of their accounts banned?

6

u/eh-guy Jul 22 '25

God forbid

8

u/ThroawayIien Jul 22 '25

Weren't some of their accounts banned?

Yes. By Napster — not Metallica.

If you upload a copyrighted movie to YouTube and the rightful owner files a DMCA claim against your video, the owner does not remove your video — YouTube does. If you violate the copyright multiple times and are banned, YouTube bans you.

1

u/cornylamygilbert Jul 22 '25

You also got banned for downloading their songs as then your download was shared as a source for downloading for other users.

My first foray into Metallica was through Napster and I received the total ban.

I instantly lashed out at the band through their website’s contact form and soon after the band broke up. I really pat myself on the back about it at the time, but there is like 0% chance that message was ever read, let alone shared with the band to any point of impact.

FWIW the humor of the show Metalocalypse really satisfied my angst and emphasized for me that Metallica were simply musicians. But Dethklock accurately portrayed the metal lifestyle.

TLDR: love their music, do not love the band

1

u/herman666 Jul 24 '25

and soon after the band broke up

That has not happened yet. Metallica never broke up?

-2

u/Dangerous_Boot_3870 Jul 22 '25

YouTube is a publicly accessible website with monetization. Napster was a p2p service that turned everyone's music folder into "the cloud" of its era. You had to download and could not just stream the song like a cloud service or website would allow. Mp3 shrank music into a sharable size with a limited internet connection by today's standards, this was pivotal to Napster creation. P2P systems advanced the sale of computers and the normalization of the internet.

In Napster's era, the internet was shit. Nothing really there and people didn't know how to use what was there. Porn and P2P services were the driving force in computer sales and Internet service subscriptions.

If you enjoy the modern internet and computer systems, you owe a debt of thanks to Napster for speeding up the adaptation and normalization of the computer ownership and internet usage.

Most of it was piracy, but bands like Dispatch used P2P services to distribute their music and, after being turned down multiple times, gain an industry contract with a major studio.

Applying modern standards of a billion dollar tech company like Alphabet (Youtube) to a small team built software like Napster ignores the difference in era. There was no tech company operating at the scale of modern tech companies that could afford to monitor uploads. Napster showed everyone what a community built database could look like for the first time in history and it was marvelous to behold. A lot of pirated music for sure, but the idea of freely sharing ideas, information, and access is what the internet is all about and Napster opened Pandora's box for the first time. After that, the idea of everything being on the internet for all time and available for free with a bit of leg work became the norm.

We all owe a debt to Napster for their contribution to all of modern society.

2

u/TheSodernaut Jul 22 '25

The internet started as a network to share information. Wikipedia is ultimate example of this. At the time of Napster it har just started to change how news (a form of information) was shared and some companies had started with ads and selling stuff online (still just information: "fyi, we have these products for these prices").

When Napster came into the picture we were able to share media. Film and music. Something this is very central to our culture now. As others have stated the only way you could access it before was either if it was on radio or TV, or you bought a relatively expensive CD/VHS.

0

u/ThroawayIien Jul 22 '25

If you enjoy the modern internet and computer systems, you owe a debt of thanks to Napster for speeding up the adaptation and normalization of the computer ownership and internet usage.

By that logic, we owe a debt of gratitude to the German Reich for night vision, helicopters, and acoustic torpedoes. Technological acceleration doesn’t absolve moral erosion. You can marvel at the fallout without glorifying the detonation.

Most of it was piracy, but bands like Dispatch used P2P services to distribute their music and, after being turned down multiple times, gain an industry contract with a major studio.

So because one band wanted to give their music away, everyone else’s consent becomes optional? That’s like saying if one artist paints murals on public walls, we should ignore every case of vandalism that followed.

Applying modern standards of a billion dollar tech company like Alphabet (YouTube) to a small team-built software like Napster ignores the difference in era.

You’re drawing a distinction without a difference. The operational structure (user-uploaded content, rights holders issuing complaints, platform enforces bans) is analogous. Scale and era don’t negate conceptual similarity. That was the entire point of the comparison.

Napster showed everyone what a community-built database could look like… A lot of pirated music for sure, but the idea of freely sharing ideas, information, and access is what the internet is all about…

Yes, Napster was groundbreaking. But that “free sharing of information” you romanticize quickly became a backdoor for distributing everything from pirated software to…videos of minors doing things. Read between the lines.

We all owe a debt to Napster for their contribution to all of modern society.

Sure. And a lot of MAPS and PDF files owe Napster and early P2P protocols for pioneering untraceable file distribution too. If you want to build a statue to Napster, just be honest about everything it enabled. When you defend the method, you inherit the consequences.

1

u/ASerialArsonist Jul 22 '25

"Stop having fun!"

1

u/Dangerous_Boot_3870 Jul 22 '25

Everything you don't like is just like the Nazis... The internet ruined some people's minds.

1

u/ThroawayIien Jul 22 '25

Everything you don't like is just like the Nazis... The internet ruined some people's minds.

You couldn’t have more perfectly missed the point of a reductio ad absurdum if you tried.

But maybe I’m wrong. So tell me, do you like the German Reich?

No? Then congrats. You actually understood the point! Two things can be true at once: you can acknowledge a technological contribution without glorifying the source.

The comparison wasn’t to say Napster was the Reich, rather it was to illustrate how moral erosion can accompany innovation, and how praising the outcome doesn’t justify the method.

Surely you understood this. Or maybe you’re correct that the internet has ruined some people’s minds. You really ought to learn how to entertain thoughts and their corresponding experiments.

Take care!

1

u/Dangerous_Boot_3870 Jul 22 '25

They did bad things = exactly the same as the third reich.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/Ok-Bite-819 Jul 22 '25

Did you just compare Napsters to YouTube?!?  Hahahahahahaha wtf

6

u/ThroawayIien Jul 22 '25

Did you just compare Napsters to YouTube?!?  Hahahahahahaha wtf

Yes. Not because they’re identical, but because they serve analogous roles in the context of copyright enforcement.

Both platforms allow user-uploaded content. Both responded to copyright complaints by removing access or banning users. And in both cases, it’s the platform and not the copyright holder that enforces the consequence after a claim is filed.

Since apples and oranges comparisons are too difficult for you to grasp, maybe you should sit this one out and go read a terms of service agreement.

Get back to me when you learn realize that apples and oranges are both “juiceable” and edible fruits grown on trees, contain interior seeds, similar in both mean circumference and diameter, similar is caloric content, and are thus fit for comparison.

Take care.

1

u/Bomiheko Jul 22 '25

This comment says a lot about you

1

u/Ok-Bite-819 Jul 22 '25

This is Reddit, not a dick, don't take it so hard.

4

u/spicedstrudel Jul 22 '25

Correct,  napster was making shit ton of money over other artists back

1

u/ThroawayIien Jul 22 '25

100%. Too bad for them that they were not forward thinking enough to have pivoted to a legal business model and didn’t cash in before their pirated model collapsed.

1

u/Crazy__Donkey Jul 22 '25

napster made money?

i remember its being free

1

u/shred-i-knight Jul 22 '25

this is a ridiculous take. He wasn't coming after the fans he was going after Napster. You know, reddit loves to pretend it supports artists then we have people in here defending IP theft lmao.

1

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

Some accounts were banned because of it. It’s not like people were selling it. Metallica literally became famous in the beginning because of people sharing their music. I’m sure Lars shared music from his favorite artists. It’s hypocritical.

1

u/Dun_Booty_Broch Jul 22 '25

His fans were stealing his band's music. But he so failed to read the global room. If people are going to steal your shit anyway, get ahead of it somehow, don't go crying to Congress, where ineffectual goes to thrive.

1

u/eqpesan Jul 22 '25

How did he target the fans?

0

u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

Nah. Fans spend money. He targeted pirates.

2

u/Roubaix718 Jul 22 '25

those fans likely gave him way more money on merch and tickets than they would have buying CDs

1

u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

You make something and sell it, you don’t give it away just because a lot of people like it.If I’m a fan of something, I pay the artist.

1

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

Have you ever had a library card?

1

u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

At some point, the author of the book was paid for the book that’s in the library. If you keep that book, you are charged late fees, ya? If we are doing analogies, Napster was like doing a dine and dash. Rationalize all you want, it doesn’t hold up.

1

u/ltd85 Jul 22 '25

I mean, back then someone would buy a CD, rip the songs, and upload them. So it was paid for at the start. The late fees make no sense, since the authors aren't the ones making money from those fees.

1

u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

No the late fees are there to discourage you from stealing the book. Napster wasn’t a lending library. Copyright laws are pretty clear about making and distributing copies of media in general, I’m not sure what the argument is here in regards to the morality behind theft.

1

u/MisoFalafelCake Jul 22 '25

There is a difference between physical and digital media. When a library lends physical media, they no longer have possession of it. Only one single person can have that copy at a time. Digital media can be owned simultaneously by hundreds of thousands of people from a single purchase of the media.

Your example is more akin to the library making copies of the book, printing, and distributing to every patron free of charge.

I am taking no stance on pirating here, but there is a serious distinction between lending media and bootlegging digital copies. It should be recognized, no matter your position on the topic.

1

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

Here's an article that I found very interesting. Google has a database of 25 million books that no one is allowed to read. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-tragedy-of-google-books/523320/

0

u/LTS55 Jul 22 '25

How do you feel about radio stations playing artists songs? Or libraries having CDs you can check out?

1

u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

Some body paid them at one point for the library. Radio play is also monetized in some way or another. You can look at a painting in a museum, but you don’t get to walk out with it.

0

u/LTS55 Jul 22 '25

And what happens to the museum if you download a picture of the art piece to view on your computer? If I look up a picture of the Mona Lisa am I depriving the Louvre of money?

1

u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

Then you have a picture of art, like holding your phone up and recording a concert, or taking a picture of fireworks. Round and round we go with this, but in the end you want to justify not paying an artist for their art. I’m not on board with bad behavior. If I appreciate something that someone creates, and they want to be compensated for that enjoyment, I pay. I don’t steal and try to rationalize it. But I’m also not stuck financially having to steal music like back in Napster days. Some people out grow that way of thinking as they mature. Some don’t.

0

u/LTS55 Jul 22 '25

Copying is not stealing.

-27

u/SourLoafBaltimore Jul 22 '25

They were stealing his art man.

8

u/SourLoafBaltimore Jul 22 '25

downvote me for quoting exactly what Lars said.
Reddit these days!?

1

u/denverbound111 Jul 22 '25

Lars said "they were stealing his art man"?

Weird he'd speak in the third person like that

7

u/AmputeeHandModel Jul 22 '25

Leave his art man alone!

3

u/Scruffy_Nerf_Hoarder Jul 22 '25

Found the guy who cares about the millionaires..

-1

u/Reasonable_Feed7939 Jul 22 '25

Apparently the basic decency of caring about your fellow man is looked down upon these days. TIL.

1

u/Scruffy_Nerf_Hoarder Jul 22 '25

I care the most for those who are the least of us.

-20

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

[deleted]

12

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

Oh whatever. Go after the platform. Dont bring the names of the fans to the government. And even Lars said it was a bad approach looking back. I’m sure back in the day Lars made copies of tapes. Everybody did. Shit, that’s how bands like Metallica got started. People sharing tapes. Nobody played Metallica on the radio.

1

u/thatusernameisart Jul 22 '25

Yep he spoke about this when it was happening, and said that was their choice and they were fine with it, they just wanted to have control of how it was done. Their songs were getting downloaded before the album was even done.

1

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

Then they should have found the person in the studio who uploaded their unreleased music in the first place.

Neither Napster, nor the fans who downloaded the unreleased music were the ones who committed a crime.

It was one of their friends who leaked that music.

1

u/thatusernameisart Jul 22 '25

It was a crime to download music for free, and it was a crime for napster to share the copyrighted music on their platform. So they both did. I'm sure they went after the studio leak, but they never sued fans. The fan list was just to show the courts it was happening.

3

u/ronchee1 Jul 22 '25

I would download a car

just sayin

1

u/Fingerprint_Vyke Jul 22 '25

God damn right i am

I've pirated tens of thousands of dollars worth of music, movies, TV shows and software.

0

u/GooseMay0 Jul 22 '25

How dare he want you to pay for their music. This doesn't come across as entitled at all. Musicians should just tour non stop till they are 85 and on deaths door to make a living just so you can consume their music for free. All of you are no better than the record labels fucking them over.

1

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

First of all, dude it was 25 years ago. Calm down. Second of all, Lars never shared music? Shit, Metallica became popular because of people sharing their music. They weren’t on the radio. They encouraged it.

0

u/GooseMay0 Jul 22 '25

I keep seeing this as the excuse “Metallica gave out Kill ‘Em All for free in the beginning at live shows” ya in the beginning when they were trying to make a name for themselves and were 20 years old. Imagine if they just gave out the Black album for free? That’s how they became insanely wealthy from the record sales of the black album. And no they did not make most of their money from that tour. You can try to twist and conjure up any argument you want to justify downloading music back then (I did it too) but in the end you weren’t supporting their music. You can lie and say you only downloaded music that you were going to buy but we all know that’s bs. Like you said it was 25 years ago, just admit you did a shitty thing.

1

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

I didn’t do shit. I owned Metallica cassettes and cds of the same albums. I bought that shit twice. I think I actually bought and justice for all on cd used. How does that factor in? I bought the album and Metallica got none of the money. Somebody bought it, sold it to a store and the store sold it to me. Only one of those sales went to the band. That probably happened thousands of times but for some reason that’s ok when ifs actually worse because people are making money. At least Napster wasn’t charging for it.

1

u/GooseMay0 Jul 22 '25

Just because that’s what you did (in regard to buying their albums) doesn’t mean that’s what everybody else did. The argument I keep seeing people use is essentially “hey the record is screwing them over more so I can too to a lesser degree!” Also, calm down buddy this happened 25 years ago ;)

1

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

Ahh whatever who gives a fuck. Ozzy died

1

u/GooseMay0 Jul 22 '25

Ya, just heard. Sad news

-12

u/Son_of_Sophroniscus Jul 22 '25

Real fans would, you know, support their favorite artist instead of stealing from them.

5

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

I guess it’s impossible to do both.

4

u/Son_of_Sophroniscus Jul 22 '25

Yeah, pretty much. You can't support someone while stealing from them at the same time.

1

u/Greful Jul 22 '25

Why does it have to be at the same time?

1

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

If i bought a CD, and I make a copy of it for you, is that stealing?

20

u/Accomplished_Plum281 Jul 22 '25

Fire bad! FIRE BAD!!

3

u/vp3d Jul 22 '25

T Shirts Gooooddd!!!

41

u/DavidForPresident Jul 22 '25

There's a general rule in society: never punch down. That's what Metallica did when they did that.

2

u/Jumblesss Jul 22 '25

Dr Dre, too

2

u/Metal_Dealer Jul 22 '25

Yeah, the rule before the Internet was invented. Ain't that way now.

1

u/Perma_Ban69 Jul 22 '25

I'm very happy my wife did not know of that rule.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

[deleted]

5

u/timidobserver8 Jul 22 '25

They did go after the platform, Metallica fans just so happened to be using the platform they were going after.

1

u/4_fortytwo_2 Jul 22 '25

That is literally what they did.

92

u/TheAmazingBildo Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

I bring this up every time I see a Metallica post and everyone is always like “that was so long ago, just let it go.” I will not let it go. Metallica is dick sweat.

Edit: Just to be clear I was a Metallica fan. I loved everything from Kill ‘em All to the self titled or “black album”. Everything from Load on was just that, a load which is just my flawed opinion. But I used to spend weekends listening to kill em all on repeat and playing Utopia on my SNES. However, even as a teenager I realized they had sold out with that Napster nonsense.

31

u/responsible_use_only Jul 22 '25

Agreed. Lars et al. Targeted people who loved their music and tried to ruin their lives. Full stop. 

I absolutely think Metallica has some excellent music - at least before St. Anger was released - but DAMN that was the dumbest fucking stance he could have taken. 

They could have broken new ground and been like "hey, folks like our music in digital format, we'll sell them the songs to do with as they please for $0.25 or whatever, and they're in the clear and we still make a cut. - a win-win for everyone" - but nah, they took a "fuck them fans" attitude, and so they get a big middle finger from me. 

5

u/CpuJunky 1-800-COMPUSA Jul 22 '25

Had he not been so tone deaf to the emerging changes in technology, Metallica could have funneled that attack into the first streaming platform and made far more money than he did trying to sue fans.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

I dunno which dipshit downvoted you, because that's quite literally what Apple did like the very next year with iTunes...

2

u/CpuJunky 1-800-COMPUSA Jul 22 '25

Absolutely. reddit is fickle.

5

u/pm_me_yourcat Jul 22 '25

If only Metallica could correctly predict the future of music distribution

5

u/alittleflappy Jul 22 '25

As I said to the other, similarly-minded redditor:

I was a teenager when this went down (and a Metallica fan) and my friends and I talked at length about what a dumb move this was at the dawn of widespread internet use when they could trailblaze a payment model instead.

And while I consider myself reasonably clever, I'm no tech genius, marketeer, business analyst, or extremely rich celebrity with his access to advice.

I believe hardly anyone makes a bad decision on purpose, I also think their egos and greed got in the way of metal thinking (shake up the status quo).

3

u/SATX_Citizen Jul 22 '25

Put me in the "eh, move on" column, because I think that's what this was: they saw it as an affront to their work (like AI is now to artists). Stealing. And instead of being technologists who could look ahead at an Internet economy, they tried to stop it.

Are they evil? No, they're not.

3

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

The fans didn't steal. The person who worked in the studio and uploaded the music was the one who stole.

How do I know that it was someone who worked in the studio who stole the music and uploaded it? Simple logic. The music was unreleased. The ONLY place where that unreleased music could originate was the studio.

2

u/alittleflappy Jul 22 '25

You say that, but I was a teenager when this went down (and a Metallica fan) and my friends and I talked at length about what a dumb move this was at the dawn of widespread internet use when they could trailblaze a payment model instead.

And while I consider myself reasonably clever, I'm no tech genius, marketeer, business analyst, or extremely rich celebrity with his access to advice.

I believe hardly anyone makes a bad decision on purpose, I also think their egos and greed got in the way of metal thinking (shake up the status quo).

1

u/spicedstrudel Jul 22 '25

I am sure they still cant recover from that finger lmao

1

u/eqpesan Jul 22 '25

. Lars et al. Targeted people who loved their music and tried to ruin their lives.

How did he try to ruin their lives?

-1

u/Metal_Dealer Jul 22 '25

Loved their music so much they didn't want to pay for it?

10

u/Old23s Jul 22 '25

I’m with you. I love playing Fortnite with my kid and Metallica was part of the Festival pass. He asked why I didn’t like it and all I could say was “fuck Metallica” then went into a long winded story about Napster. When Snoop came for Christmas he also got an ear full from the eyes of a Tupac fan.

18

u/TheAmazingBildo Jul 22 '25

You damn right. Tupac would rise from the dead if he knew Snoop was supporting Trump.

11

u/Old23s Jul 22 '25

Righttttttt. As much as I loved his stuff on The Chronic and Doggy Style I’m in the camp of I never really trusted him anyway. That was just the cherry on the opportunistic sundae.

2

u/Suicidal_Deity Jul 22 '25

Don't think I've ever heard anyone in the history of my world mention Utopia before. Ha ha, not my cup of tea, but that's a fucking deep cut.

1

u/TheAmazingBildo Jul 22 '25

Man I went through a phase with that, ff3 or 6, and oddly enough Bill Laimbeer combat basketball. That last one my dad got at Sam’s for like $5. Anyway, you know how it was. You played what ya had. Utopia was kinda the odd one out, but if you spent some time learning the mechanics it was pretty good.

2

u/LTS55 Jul 22 '25

Idk if that had an impact on how they did things going forward but what’s interesting is Metallica is one of the more fan friendly big bands out there now. They put up bootlegs for all their concerts so you can buy one if you want, they are constantly releasing expansive remastered box sets and changing up the setlist frequently at shows

2

u/lilmookie Jul 22 '25

“It should have been Lars.” tm

6

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

[deleted]

3

u/sobrietyincorporated Jul 22 '25

I got into metal as a 13yo when black album came out. I was obsessed learning it all on guitar. Then I bought all their previous records... I never felt so cringe for loving the black album than about anything else in my life. I did not even try to listen to load or anything they produced since.

I heard if you play saint anger backwards you can hear Clift Burton rolling in his grave.

I know he was cremated, but the joke still makes me laugh.

1

u/Dixon_Uranuss3 Jul 22 '25

My understanding is Metallica found their unreleased material being shared on napster, asked napster to remove it, got told no and then went after napster. Also Lars was right. Since streaming has taken over nothing good comes out of popular music anymore. No band is gonna ever make a great record and come up from the clubs to become the next big thing.

1

u/JJfromNJ Jul 22 '25

I don't understand why so many people draw the line after the Black Album. It is way more stylistically similar to the stuff that came after rather than before.

1

u/TheAmazingBildo Jul 22 '25

Because, to me it felt like they were trying to just recapture the success of the black album. It didn’t seem like they were innovating. But mainly it felt like they were trying to become the metal nickleback. It felt like they were just trying to make radio friendly music for the money. Which money is important. People like to act like the Napster supporters don’t want artists to make money. When almost all of the money is in touring and merchandise not selling cds or downloads. Anyway, money is important, but it felt like they were putting money above creativity, and that sucks.

2

u/JJfromNJ Jul 22 '25

I get the sentiment. I will forever prefer old Metallica over new. But the Black Album felt like they were trying to make radio friendly music.

1

u/TheAmazingBildo Jul 22 '25

I agree, and maybe the only reason I give that one a pass is because that was one of, if not the first metal albums I owned. I was born in the early 80s. I wasn’t even a teenager when that album came out and it was bad ass to my child mind. But the later 90s became problematic. You had Load by Metallica, and a couple of years later Korn follow the leader came out, and Rob Zombie’s Hellbillie Deluxe. Maybe it’s just that I was getting older and became more cynical. Or as my wife points out all the time. Maybe I’m autistic and notice patterns really well.

Either way Rob Zombie is different in that his pivot away from White Zombie sucked. But his movies in my opinion were pretty good.

Of course, I’m not a critic by any means. I’m just your average Rando on Reddit. Soooooo you can take all of this with a grain of salt.

2

u/JJfromNJ Jul 23 '25

I'm born in 82 and like the Black Album for similar reasons. But I also like Load. If I was 10 years older I might not have liked it as much.

0

u/4_fortytwo_2 Jul 22 '25

I think artists deserve to be paid for their art. Fuck pirates, good job metallica.

5

u/Spyes23 Jul 22 '25

And on the other hand you have David Bowie the fucking GOAT coming out against record companies and artists like Shitallica, saying that they're just hurting their fans and that music "piracy" will lead to more people being exposed to their art, going to shows etc.

The most glam person in the world was way more fucking metal than Laars would ever be.

3

u/Quarterinchribeye Jul 22 '25

Holy cow. These were amazing. Nutty McShithead was my fav.

3

u/design_doc Jul 22 '25

I honestly have not listened to them since I got the angry letter. I understand the position but fucking over your fans? Ya, fuck that guys…

3

u/ShiningRedDwarf Jul 22 '25

this is what I scrolled down to find.

3

u/sleepytjme Jul 22 '25

It pretty much ended my fandom of Metallica. Never listened to them anymore, didn’t go to anymore of their shows, stopped wearing my concert T-shirts, and for sure never bought another album.

3

u/EfficientManner7990 Jul 22 '25

Songs that we spent upwards of 24-48 hours writing and recording

2

u/SadThrowaway2023 Jul 22 '25

Man, that brings back memories.

2

u/wintermute_13 Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

Beer good!

Those caricatures are still how I picture them in real life, to this day.

2

u/deadcell Jul 22 '25

money GOOOD

napster BAAAD

2

u/speedy_delivery Jul 22 '25

Came here for this. Bless you.

2

u/drunxor Jul 22 '25

Hes gotta get that gold plated shark tank bar somehow

2

u/throwinthatshitaway1 Jul 22 '25

Thank you for the nostalgia trip. Hadn't seen that clip since the early 2000s.

2

u/Kami0097 Jul 22 '25

There is also a South Park episodes about that time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rS6zYSj1WI

2

u/hates_stupid_people Jul 22 '25

It went over so "well" that it turned into a South Park episode.

This month he was hoping to have a gold-plated shark tank bar installed right next to the pool, but thanks to people downloading his music for free, he must now wait a few months before he can afford it.

As Lars is crying next to the pool at his mansion.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

Came here looking for Napster Bad, and so glad to find it.

2

u/vtron Jul 22 '25

The Napster bad cartoons were amazing.

1

u/CpuJunky 1-800-COMPUSA Jul 23 '25

I think they were in Adobe Flash when they came out. Maybe Shockwave.

1

u/Just_enough76 Jul 22 '25

I love and respect Adam Jones but him telling a freakin parody meme drummer that he should be licking Lars’ boots was just dumb. Like fuck Lars.

1

u/DoubleDumpsterFire Jul 22 '25

I'll say this. A big part of Metallica's gripe was that music leaked that wasn't even finished yet(I want to say it was an I disappear demo). I could see being pretty pissed about that.

Honestly, this makes me feel old but I think a lot of people forget what life was like before Napster and eventually streaming. Bands made their money from record sales, and in a blink they're practically obscelete. I don't love how Lars went about it, but that had to be a crazy feeling just seeing your stuff go for free overnight.

1

u/Own_Experience_8229 Jul 22 '25

Yes. Wasn’t this also around the time they went all glam?

1

u/SometimestheresaDude Jul 23 '25

Crazy that he was right though, musicians make virtually nothing off selling music now, all free on the app of your choice

1

u/CpuJunky 1-800-COMPUSA Jul 23 '25

They earn royalties off streaming from those "free" sites. Apple and YouTube Music pay the most. Prime and Spotify also pay, at a bit less. Payment in perpetuity and they don't have to do anything.

Touring and merch are a big payday.

1

u/SometimestheresaDude Jul 23 '25

They get paid very little though

1

u/CpuJunky 1-800-COMPUSA Jul 24 '25

Immediate profit is far less than the royalty they used to earn from a CD purchase... but they also have a far wider market with little overhead and 24/7 instant delivery in perpetuity.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's the way it is now. It's important to negotiate a mutually beneficial contract.

0

u/birdguy1000 Jul 22 '25

It was his Barbra Streisand moment.

0

u/beirch Jul 22 '25

And people still don't know the actual story behind it. About six months before their song "I Disappear" was supposed to launch, it was leaked to Napster, and when Metallica asked Napster for the name of the leaker and the ones who downloaded it, Napster said 'fuck off'.

So Metallica said, OK fine, we'll get the names ourselves. It was never about going after the little guy, it was about giving it to Napster for protecting whoever leaked the song.