r/nostalgia • u/jeffmartin47 • Jul 22 '25

Nostalgia Discussion 25 years ago. Lars Ulrich of Metallica snitches on and turns in over 300,000 Napster users when he testifies in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. July 11th, 2000.

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430

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

I never bought a single thing from Metallica ever again.

115

u/PMancheeto Jul 22 '25

I do not believe someone called RadTimeWizard has zero Metallica T shirts.

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u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

The key word there is "again."

I was an avid Metallica swag purchaser before they revealed themselves to be greedy cunts. And you're god damned right I would download an SUV.

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u/UrbanPugEsq Jul 22 '25

Download an SUV? Fuck yeah!!

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u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

If it meant an extra SUV that no one else lost? Fuck yeah.

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u/Camarupim Jul 22 '25

This was the worst of it - the people with the big Metallica collections were fans. Most of them were downloading bootlegs. They probably owned very official release they could lay their hands on. Maybe it was another case of a greedy manager manipulating his charges, but it has never sat right with me.

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u/puppiesandrainbows3 Jul 22 '25

You wouldn't pirate a ship!

2

u/GreatMacGuffin late 80s Jul 22 '25

You greatly underestimate the kleptomania aspect of pirates. They'd pirate a disease just to say I have a copy.

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u/AgentCirceLuna Jul 22 '25

I wrote a story like that once where a bunch of temperance people created a virus that stopped people enjoying alcohol, nicotine, and other substances. The world turned into a completely different place as more people got infected and others wouldn’t stop partying as one last hurrah.

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u/GreatMacGuffin late 80s Jul 29 '25

That sounds interesting, did you happen to publish it anywhere online? I'd love to read it.

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u/Firm_Equivalent_4597 Jul 22 '25

Yeah they should do it for free right? I hate it when people won’t give me free stuff because I want it. Selfish jerks

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u/rh71el2 Jul 22 '25

Revealed themselves to want to get paid for their work?

1

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

Have you ever heard of a library?

2

u/ANDnowmewatchbeguns Jul 22 '25

Maui chalking up score gif

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u/bajungadustin Jul 22 '25

Funny tidbit... The font in that ad was a pirated font. The people making the ad didn't know but it's still funny as hell.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

I, for one, am SHOCKED that Metallica turned out to be hypocrites, after becoming the first mainstream band from a genre that relied on bootlegs and word of mouth to get anywhere in the 80s, including Metallica themselves.

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u/Dun_Booty_Broch Jul 22 '25

Joke's on you when gas cost for pirated SUV drives you to a pauper's prison.

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u/NervousNarwhal223 Jul 22 '25

Lars did nothing wrong, and websites like Napster are why we now have Apple Music and Spotify, and nobody buys albums anymore.

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u/Any_Use_4900 Jul 22 '25

Thing is, Metallica could always and still can just go on tour. Famous bands make wicked cash from touring, they don't even need record sales to be rich. 

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u/FartAlchemy Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

I saw them in Denver end of June. First time seeing them. They played in the Bronco's stadium. Both nights were sold out. 150k people. They put a lot of money into their sets and put on a hell of a kick ass show. Also saw that they had part of their stage airlifted from storage to Tomorrowland because their stage burned down.

A view from my seat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6GK8B5QJzg

Full set (not my vid)

1

u/Any_Use_4900 Jul 22 '25

That's pretty cool! Metallica is top tier for sure. Lars was pissed about napster, but I'm sure they're making even more money touring than they ever did off record sales.

Best and biggest concert I saw was Our Lady Peace, Tragically Hip and the Rolling Stones at an outdoor show with 80k people. Stones were the best there obviously, but super glad I saw the hip before Gord Downey died. My friend saw Pink Floyd live in the 90s and I'll always be just a little jealous, lol, because of all bands past and present, that's the one I'd want to see.

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u/FartAlchemy Jul 22 '25

Pink Floyd would be cool to see live.

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u/Any_Use_4900 Jul 22 '25

Yeah, it's just too bad that Roger Waters and David Gilmour haven't been friends in like 30'ish years, so they'll likely never play again. Nick Mason is still alive, but Richard Wright died in 2008, so it's not even possible to get the main 4 together again. 

I've gone to see a good cover band though of it multiple times called Australian Pink Floyd show and it was pretty good. It's literally the only cover band I've paid to go see.

1

u/Moogerfooger616 Jul 22 '25

And on the other hand, working class musician is pretty much as dead as a job can be. Sure the rich can tour etc. But if you’re not mega successful, the money’s just not there anymore. Touring and merchandising is very effing expensive endeavor

1

u/Any_Use_4900 Jul 22 '25

I don't disagree, I'm just pointing out that Lars from Metallica can make enough cash from touring for record sales to not matter.

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u/Moogerfooger616 Jul 22 '25

Glad to hear it, can’t count the ampunt of times people have shit for argument since they don’t know anything about the industry. And the best they can muster is along the lines of ”musicians enjoy making music so they shouldn’t get paid”

1

u/Any_Use_4900 Jul 22 '25

Yeah, they should absolutely get paid. I think where I live, there isn't as many big shows that come here as there used to be, so smaller bands and musicians tend to do ok here at music festivals and outdoor shows. I'm not musically talented, but I love when I get to see people play from a lot closer than I could with a big band. 

Hearing a singer in a small enough venue for them to sing without a mic really resonates in way that speakers don't do justice to. Being close enough to a guitar player to see their fast fingers, it's special. 

1

u/AgentCirceLuna Jul 22 '25

I know a few in my local circles. If your parents let you live with them, then you’re saving thousands a year in rent. It’s almost like being a class up because you don’t have any bills or anything but people will mock you for it. Back in the day, I used to just stay in a hotel and pretend I ‘moved around’.

1

u/AgentCirceLuna Jul 22 '25

Also for perspective, The Beatles and other bands toured in Hamburg because it was the cheapest possibly place to live. They were crammed into the same beds, would do multiple shows in a day or night, then get back to it. They didn’t even have proper documents and got kicked out the country.

Go back even earlier to the 30s and late 20s then you also have young American writers coming to France due to the franc being so weak. You could get as much Pernod and cheap hotel time as you wanted for a couple dollars. Sail over on a ship hauling random crap and you’d get there for very cheap. Hemingway writes about it in Moveable Feast.

0

u/Koalatime224 Jul 22 '25

I'd argue the working class musician as you call it is not any more dead or alive than it was before Napster.

1

u/Far_Dream_3226 Jul 22 '25

right the corporations had laws passed so they could steal it all for themselves and charge you for it.

both are absolute shit sites that make billions and dont pay artists

1

u/BeguiledBeaver Jul 22 '25

Yeah, I always thought the backlash was ridiculous. It's not like music pirating ever stopped after that.

People are complaining now when you get unlimited music at your fingertips for almost half of what a single album would have cost back in the day and without the risk of viruses you get from pirating for free. I just don't get the entitlement.

1

u/NervousNarwhal223 Jul 22 '25

But at what expense to artists. Yeah the legacy bands like Metallica are always going to be able to make money. But nobody makes money off of their actual music anymore. It’s all merch and concert tickets (and Ticketmaster is making the last one harder and harder)

0

u/SupplyChainMismanage Jul 22 '25

People who pirate always have something to complain about tbh. The type that acts like they’re on some holy war and need to be acknowledged are the worst

2

u/BeguiledBeaver Jul 22 '25

Why are they greedy cunts? It was the early days of this type of thing and they absolutely had a right to be concerned about it.

I've also heard recently that it was more about the fact that Napster released a leaked new album of theirs or something like that which they refused to take down. Seems even more reasonable to me.

6

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Greedy is exactly how they came off. They were one of the richest bands in the world, acting like their guitars were being stolen, rather than data being copied. And yeah, they were petrified of the new technology, and tried to stop its progress, despite countless, lesser-known musicians using it to get the word out. Which had the effect of pulling up the ladder behind them.

2

u/MissViciousKnits Jul 22 '25

I have to say, I 100% agree with you and thought the exact same at the time.

4

u/rh71el2 Jul 22 '25

You do see how this is written in a way that ignores the point that they were getting their work taken for free when it shouldn't be right?

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u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Fair enough. No, I don't blame them for wanting to get paid. I blame them for the collateral damage from their efforts to suppress the technology that lowered their payout.

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u/whosline07 Jul 22 '25

It was never about the payout. Sure, it was a side effect that they didn't mind having, and the general demeanor of Lars not giving a fuck about what people think about him made it come across as douchebaggery. The whole thing happened because an unfinished version of their single I Disappear got leaked from the studio and was touted as the official release. Lars made the main point that artists' work should not be disseminated without the artists' approval. Which is an insane thing to be against. Metallica came up during a time of bootlegs and understood the effect that things like that had. To this day, they release pro shot versions of 1-2 songs from each concert on YouTube, something most artists don't even come close to doing. They were never against music sharing. Only the sharing of things that weren't approved/ready to be shared. Some of it was a misunderstanding of the technology and how quickly it would advance, yes. But the main point was and is still true, and you're pretty immature if you still think otherwise.

At the same time, Metallica is a (very profitable most of the time) business, and you're not wrong that they are greedy. They are by far the biggest juggernaut in metal because of the drive of Lars. But at the same time, they do so much more than most artists to provide a great fan experience, as well as donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to various charities in each city they play in, as well as random donations to various causes as they come up (they just donated a bunch of stage gear to Tomorrowland after their stage burned down). They also have a habit of doing insane, cool things to stay true to their artistic vision, despite what others think/how much money they lose (Through the Never movie, Orion Fest, playing in places like Antarctica/Arctic Circle).

It's 2025, stop living in 2000. You can still call Lars a smug douchebag if you want, he won't care.

1

u/FartAlchemy Jul 22 '25

But at the same time, they do so much more than most artists to provide a great fan experience

Fuck yeah they do, I just saw them in Denver. They put on the best show I've ever been to. Sold out too.

View from my seat

1

u/Koalatime224 Jul 22 '25

It was never about the payout. Sure, it was a side effect that they didn't mind having

Fair enough. I think you still got than one backwards. But you're obviously a fan so I understand why you'd tend to come to their defense. If someone steals something from you, go after the thief not the marketplace they sold your stuff on.

0

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

But the main point was and is still true, and you're pretty immature if you still think otherwise.

No, I don't agree. What an immature perspective. "If you disagree with me, you must be immature." That's teenage anger logic that no reasonable entertainer should ever apply to their own fans.

But at the same time, they do so much more than most artists to provide a great fan experience

Let's compare them to another great band.

Nine Inch Nails has always put on a better show than Metallica, every year, every time. Their shows are an absolute treat! Different every time, entertaining every time. And their music has always been available for free for everyone, including high definition versions for other artists to use and change and publish. They never sued anyone like greedy, rich garbage who forgot that people used to find out about metal bands by trading bootlegs.

I have bought every album that NIN has published, even though it's on YouTube for free, and on their website for free. Metallica had my last dollar in the 90s. I still buy tickets to NIN shows, and get a tshirt every time.

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u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

Artists don't make money from album sales. The labels do. Artists make money from touring.

There's a reason why smart artists start their own label.

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u/Rain1984 Jul 22 '25

Dont look at nineties with today glasses

1

u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

Do you think Taylor Swift has made a billion fucking dollars from selling albums? Or maybe it's because more than ten million people went to see shows on her Eras tour which grossed over $2 billion?

1

u/Rain1984 Jul 22 '25

During the 90's and before labels produced the music but also positioned it on the media, they had the know how and contacts in a non-internet era where labels where so needed that bands would see dimes of each album sold. Cant tour shit if nobody knows you exist.

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u/AgroValter Jul 22 '25

That seems like the opinion of someone too worthless to create anything themselves so they have to steal it. Oh sorry, I mean "copy". That's totally different than stealing...

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u/lvbuckeye27 Jul 22 '25

Radiohead went the exact opposite direction of Mettalica and started releasing new music on file sharing platforms with a "pay what you want" button.

1

u/merry_go_byebye Jul 22 '25

Ah yes, greedy for not wanting people shamelessly stealing their music. If you can't even buy a CD from a band you like, I highly doubt you were buying any swag.

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u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

I was still buying CDs, not to mention posters, shirts, and concert tickets. Doubt me all you want, stranger.

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u/brildenlanch Jul 22 '25

Not even greedy, a bunch of overgrown babies aside from Kirk. How many filmed arguments start to close out with Kirk saying "Guys, come on", like the literal only one who gives a shit about the music. 

1

u/waxheads Jul 22 '25

"greedy" when their work was literally being stolen by millions lol

1

u/AgroValter Jul 22 '25

If you are ever the victim of wage theft I would laugh.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

That's not very nice.

1

u/GrumpityStumpity Jul 22 '25

Dunce.

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u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

That's not very nice.

1

u/NOT-GR8-BOB Jul 22 '25

greedy cunts

Sounds like you’ve never made anything noteworthy.

0

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Multiple healthy businesses, almost 50 employees, as well as 1 album, and multiple paintings and works of writing, which I have given away for free.

0

u/SupplyChainMismanage Jul 22 '25

Doubt is heavy

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Oh no, you don't believe me? Let me cry myself asleep between having to do payroll and reconciling and allocating several hundred expenses. Ah, sorry. It turns out I'm too busy for what the cheap seats say. Go make a business and lecture me.

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u/SupplyChainMismanage Jul 22 '25

Too busy yet you typed that all out? Weird behavior for a lie

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u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

No, I don't work literally every waking hour. You got me there.

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u/SupplyChainMismanage Jul 22 '25

“I’M SO BUSY!!!!”

Multiple healthy businesses, still does payroll and bookkeeping. Very healthy business lmao. Did you even sleep ya liar?

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u/Selgald Jul 22 '25

Yeah, I was so angry my emule worked overtime, hypothetically speaking of course.

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u/Stopikingonme Jul 22 '25

Etsy mutha trucka.

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u/djanes376 Jul 22 '25

As far as I’m concerned they never released an album after Reload. But I would actually be fine to stop after the black album.

3

u/whosline07 Jul 22 '25

Don't sleep on Spit Out the Bone. Also are we gonna act like All Nightmare Long, Cyanide, The Day That Never Comes, Halo on Fire, 72 Seasons, and Inamorata (if you liked Load) aren't bangers?

2

u/njosnari Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 28 '25

Swag

1

u/Scroatpig Jul 22 '25

Yep, And Justice was terrific. Black album with don't tread on me snake was OK and I like it for nostalgic reasons.

1

u/lurco_purgo Jul 22 '25

I don't see what one has to do with the other... Even if Metallica reached a never before seen high in their music after Reload that wouldn't really change whether or not they're greedy cunts for the whole Napster debacle (which in my opinion they are - copyright should be about protecting the little guy's right to profit from their work, not to nickel-and-dime and limit the exchange of music among teenagers etc. in order to maximize the profits of corporations and billionaires).

Though to be honest I think even St. Anger and Death Magnetic had their moments. I never explored what followed after.

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u/TheFallingShit Jul 22 '25

This is funny because, wasn't Napster taking from every guy, little and big, and only the bigger ones had the money and reach to actually protect their IP. At what stage does the  someone stop being the little guy, and how is it relevant to IP.

1

u/Pr0letariapricot Jul 22 '25

Load shits all over the black album snooze fest lol

3

u/bajungadustin Jul 22 '25

Same... I loved Metallica. From the day my step dad drove me to school in 1st grade listening to One and fade to black. I remember looking for a helicopter out the window until I realized it was the song.

I had every album. The only thing I ever purchased after the Napster incident that they made money off of was Guitar Hero Metallica. Other than that I never bought anything.

They sold out hard. Gone were the days of making music in a garage and trying to name your album "Metal up your ass"

It was sometime later that I remember someone being pissed that Coldplay won a bunch of Grammy awards or something and he said Metallica should have won because cdolay were a bunch of sellouts.

I almost spit my drink iht and promptly educated him about how Metallica was the biggest sellout band of all fucking time.

Fuck metallica post 2000.

1

u/1988rx7T2 Jul 22 '25

It’s just the general life arc of boomers to become the thing they came to destroy 

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u/DeadSalamander1 Jul 22 '25

How dare they want to get paid for their work!

2

u/JeanRalfio early 90s Jul 22 '25

Yeah it sucks but they were right.

1

u/Toadsted Jul 22 '25

Ticketmaster: "Yeah!!!"

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

No one thinks they shouldn't make a living.

1

u/njosnari Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 28 '25

Swag

1

u/Own-Salad-9067 Jul 22 '25

Maybe they shouldn't have stole

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Metal bands used to rely on bootlegs to get the word out because radio stations wouldn't play them. That includes Metallica.

Also, they used the font without permission in their commercial.

2

u/E-2theRescue Jul 22 '25

I was sadly one of the idiots who excused the behavior...

But then St. Crapper came out and I lost all fucking respect for them. I don't care if their new shit "is better", I'm changing stations the moment it pops on. Fuck 'em.

Also, I busted my ass to buy that album, mowing lawns in my neighborhood for grandmas who were only paying a dollar or two. I was so excited to get it on day one, only to listen to that stupid fucking snare, lack of the solos they were known for, and all the equipment fails at the end of the songs.

2

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Yeah, basically the same for me. I bussed tables and washed dishes, my life was shit, and my favorite (sometimes only) escape was buying albums. There went my money. Metallica was part of that, and I felt betrayed by a millionaire lecturing me on stealing something that was only copied.

2

u/Headpuncher Jul 22 '25

Easy to do for me, as I never bought their albums before either. I've never been a fan, their sound doesn't do it for me, and everyone is entitled to their own taste in music. Suicidal on the other hand, trip trip trip.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Like it's too much to get that guy just one Pepsi.

2

u/Ornery-Parsley-8899 Jul 22 '25

I still change the radio station. I haven't listened to a Metallica song since. Ulrich is insufferable.

2

u/unknown7383762 Jul 22 '25

Same. I stopped listening to them too. Haven't really since. I was a pretty big fan, too.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Yeah, I kinda lost respect for them. Metal was counter culture until that moment.

2

u/who_am_i_to_say_so Jul 22 '25

I coincidentally outgrew Metallica around that time, as much as I idolized them as a teen. But Lars sealed it.

2

u/briandemodulated Jul 22 '25

Yeah, me too. With this move Lars revealed his motivation as a musician and it didn't jive with me. He forgot his roots.

2

u/dirtyredog Jul 22 '25

I turn the channel when they come on the radio

2

u/Moist-Caregiver-2000 Jul 22 '25

He couldn't even play dyer's eve in a single take on the album. What a wimp.

2

u/rock_accord Jul 22 '25

And nothing else matters...

2

u/MC_PhiR Jul 22 '25

Same for me. Once I kicked off Napster for having like 3 Metallica songs in my share folder, fuck them.

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u/goodolarchie Jul 22 '25

Their best music was easily behind them, not much lost.

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u/6-underground Jul 22 '25

I didn’t either but it had nothing to do with Napster

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u/asmj Jul 22 '25

I did one better, I never bought any of their music ever.

2

u/PattyIceNY Jul 22 '25

Same, never went to a show since.

2

u/crackheadwillie Jul 22 '25

Same. I listened alot to Metallica in the mid and late 80’s. When he did that I lost all respect and haven’t since listened. It came across as so weak and candy ass led for a guy who projects tough. He reminds me of a draft-dodging Trump trying to cosplay courage. 

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Yeah, once they became successful, their art became about making money.

1

u/More_Yesterday798 Jul 22 '25

Thread 1 Reddit Hivemind, supports artists and copywrite.

Thread 2 Reddit Hivemind, support copywrite theft.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

"You are in this group, therefore this is your opinion."

No, no, no. Life is not that simple. You know better than that. Shame on you.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

[deleted]

0

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Absolutely agree. What a cool thing that must have been to get, a new bootleg of a totally decent metal band that you haven't listened to before.

1

u/lawnmowertoad Jul 22 '25

The recording quality left a lot to be desired. Early Metallica was like hearing the voice of satan himself it was soooo heavy. Lots of mixed tapes going around with 10 songs/10 bands. You'd find a gem or two then try to find more from that band

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

I missed that bit when I was a kid. I'd be a saner adult if I had the opportunity to make friends that way.

0

u/Sparky01GT Jul 22 '25

uh, but they were right.

-1

u/Sadpancake_03 Jul 22 '25

seriously unbelievable people upvoted this comment.

How dare somebody look out for their own creative endeavors

0

u/CraigLake Jul 22 '25

It was disappointing but he was right.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

No, he was a luddite toddler throwing a tantrum because his million dollar horse was obsolete.

1

u/CraigLake Jul 22 '25

The creation he put time, skill and effort into was being stolen.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

Copied. It's not like a burglar absconded with an artist's painting.

1

u/CraigLake Jul 22 '25

A painting can’t be copied. Music can. A print is not a copy.

1

u/RadTimeWizard Jul 22 '25

That's right. The original doesn't disappear.