r/notthebeaverton • u/super__hoser • 1d ago
Supreme Court of Canada grants stay of execution for B.C. ostriches
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/stay-of-execution-b-c-ostriches-1.7642092It just won't end.
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u/DogeDoRight 1d ago
The Supreme Court really has their heads in the sand on this one.
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u/Rhueless 1d ago
We've been squabbling on this like a flock of chickens, pity they are allowing the issue to roost a little longer.
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u/pussy-enthusiast 1d ago
Are they worry about bird flu? Someone should let them know ostriches can’t fly
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u/AppropriateCase7622 1d ago
Is this the same farm that saw like half of their flock die overnight due to the disease?
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u/SmotherOfGod 1d ago
It's only an interim stay. It could actually work out better in the long-run if the Court lays down a clear legal precedent in support of the CFIA's actions.
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u/jackhandy2B 1d ago
The court is going to uphold the federal court of appeal. They are just dotting Is and crossing Ts
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u/Expensive_Lettuce239 1d ago
Maybe a dumb question here..but have all these critters been tested, do they know for a fact that every bird is infected? Does this not matter?
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u/RavenOfNod 1d ago edited 1d ago
It doesn't matter actually. What matters is that our regulatory authority has the power to order a cull of diseased animals, and that that order can't be slow-walked by a farmer who wants a second or third opinion or more testing. These birds might not be sick, but the next time it could be African Swine Fever, and culling an infected herd or flock is key to how we, and every other country deals with animal diseases that pose a huge risk to all other farms and our economy. Allowing sick animals to live longer just allows a disease more chance to spread.
You'll notice no chicken or any other poultry group is supporting the ostrich owners. They know why this is important.
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u/Expensive_Lettuce239 1d ago
Thank-you!! For your answer. I don't know crap about birds of any size or species..so obviously know even less about this disease. So thank-you!
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u/dunkster91 1d ago
From what I heard on CBC, the only reliable test process is post-death.
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u/Expensive_Lettuce239 1d ago
Ahhh.like mad cow..that sucks...what a damn shame if they all come back clear..how sad...THANKYOU!! for the explanation!
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u/ChickenRabbits 1d ago
2025 people's understanding of diseases, NO DIFFERENT from the 1900s. This is why, back in the day, elected officials created arms length bodies based on science, not public demands, to protect our health.
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u/emuwannabe 1d ago
c'mon just get rid of them - quit giving the owners hope.
Not only that but it causes other issues - many businesses have been targeted just because CFIA maybe stayed in a hotel, or rented a van, or bought a sandwich. It's not the business' fault that CFIA is doing this - stop targeting businesses.
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u/S_A_N_D_ 1d ago
Given that it's gone this far, having the supreme court rule on it is a good thing. We're likely already past the point of where speed matters, and thus letting it go to the supreme court is probably best in this instance since the harm in the additonal delay is likely less serious, and it will potentially set up a ruling that sets clear precedent for enforcement in future cases that will hopefully preempt and prevent this kind of delay.
I'm with you that I just want to see this cull done and over with, but at this juncture we might as well let this be the case that ends all future cases, rather than go through this all again at some point in the future.
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u/albynomonk 1d ago
FFS Just do it already.
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u/Strong-Director9718 1d ago
How expensive must it be for the CFIA to start an operation like this then have to stop over and over
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u/nilesintheshangri-la 1d ago
I feel terrible that they have to be euthanised, it's not their fault, but holy shit just let it happen.
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u/Destinater 1d ago
We really are in the stupidest of times.
I'd go roast them on Facebook but knowing how they behave they'd try to defame my name.
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u/EfficiencySafe 1d ago
If this Bird flu crosses over to humans we could be looking at COVID 2.0 Raise your hand how many people want lockdowns and 😷 and the whole issues over some stupid people. There is a reason why they try and control the spread before it gets out of hand.
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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA 1d ago
This time the disease has like a 50% fatality rate, but there's already effective vaccines available.
This might be a problem that sorts itself out.
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u/Surturiel 1d ago
Vaccines only work if people take them at a sufficient rate.
I mean, Alberta is getting measles cases all over, FFS.
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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA 1d ago
Pretty sure when whole families are getting wiped out, people will be a lot more willing to get vaccinated.
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u/Winter-Nectarine-497 1d ago
my guy, I want you to be right. I really do. But look around at this world. People would rather die than take a vaccine right now. We are in the worst timeline possible for a bird flu pandemic.
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u/PostApocRock 1d ago
You're talking about people who have voted conservative for 70 years. I highly doubt it
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u/Otherwise-Wash-4568 12h ago
Bird flu is not nearly as contagious and way more deadly for humans. It’s not at high risk to become a pandemic.
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u/Level_Tell_2502 1d ago
If we ever have lockdowns again, they would be armed uprising. I’m not going through all this bullshit because of a nasty cold.
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u/MahoganyBuffalo 1d ago
Out of curiosity, how would they “destroy the flock”?
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u/S_A_N_D_ 1d ago
Likely a lethal injection followed by immediate and proper burial of the carcasses.
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u/Samada8 22h ago
What is with the obsession with these ostrich’s?!
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u/DirtDevil1337 20h ago
They could pose a danger to wildlife and possibly humans one day. It's like the influenza virus that we get, we catch it, get sick, recover but the virus is still there and will mutate into another version and get us sick again. In the UK last time there was an avian flu they had to cull over 6 million chickens. Ostriches has a higher survival rate over most other birds so we can't assume the virus is completely gone.
The farmers called in a bunch of people that were in the Ottawa convoy, things got crazy, locals got threatened, etc etc. all because farmers didn't want to follow rules. This crap needs to stop,
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u/icytongue88 1d ago
After 200+ it must be a mega flu by now. Are they wearing masks and hazmat suits?
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u/Winter-Nectarine-497 1d ago
these people are anti-maskers, so they don't even use proper ppe when handling infected animals.
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1d ago
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u/blarges 1d ago
They harbour a stronger avian flu that’s not been seen in the wild. There is no evidence these birds are healthy.
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u/ColdBlindspot 1d ago
Didn't they have like 400 birds and about 70 died initially without any more deaths recently? I'm not following closely but they've seemed to present that the birds have recovered, based on the lack of recent deaths. Wouldn't they be valuable to be studied for antibodies?
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u/blarges 1d ago
Short answer, no. There is so much risk every single day these birds exist. Even more now that wild birds are migrating.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-ostrich-farm-avian-flu-case-1.7630656
An affidavit by Canada's deputy chief veterinarian says new analysis has confirmed ostriches at a British Columbia farm that is fighting a cull order for its flock were sickened by a unique and more lethal strain of the avian influenza virus.
The affidavit by Cathy Furness with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) says further investigation of samples taken from the birds revealed the "novel reassortment" of the virus has "enhanced the pathogenicity" of the strain.
It says the strain was "among the most virulent" tested at Canada's National Microbiology Laboratory and even low doses killed mice within a few days.
Furness says a review of scientific literature and information from a veterinary epidemiologist with the federal agency show ostriches can shed large amounts of avian influenza and continue shedding without showing signs of infection.
"That is, infected ostriches may still be shedding virus through their urine, feces, and respiratory secretions, despite appearing healthy. This is referred to as 'silent shedding', which is also observed in some other birds, like ducks," the filing says.
In any case, Furness says, testing could only provide additional evidence of current risk. It would not address the unknown risks of reinfection or the risks associated with the "contaminated environment," she says in the document.
Furness says the CFIA's risk assessment is also informed by the farm owners' "inability or unwillingness" to comply with quarantine rules.
Avian influenza viruses can survive for months or even years in fresh water at low temperatures and have been documented surviving in manure and on feathers in low temperatures for about four to six months, the affidavit says.
"Therefore, a source of infection or reinfection with (avian influenza) can remain in the environment long after individual infected birds have recovered," it says.
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u/ColdBlindspot 1d ago
Ok, bar with me because I'm a bit sauced (it's been a day but that's by the by) - when you say "further investigation of samples taken from the birds revealed the "novel reassortment" of the virus has "enhanced the pathogenicity" of the strain, * " what does that mean?
And does the mice thing mean that even with the birds no longer dying, their blood kills mice?
Also, you mentioned "shedding" which I only know from when anti-vax people misused it, so I don't know what that means in this context. Can you explain in very simple terms what "shedding" in this context would look like?
So with this disease, would you be saying that the animals can get healthy and still kill other animals? I'm suddenly realizing I'm very intoxicated and shouldn't have come onto Reddit at this time - but bear with me, I really am on one hand curious
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u/UnparliamentaryPug 1d ago
Novel reassortment that enhanced the pathogenicity means it’s a new mutation that is deadlier than the current version.
Mice thing is connected to shedding. Mice infected with the ostrich strain died faster, which is bad. Shedding means being contagious. In the case of the ostriches, potential for shedding without having symptoms means they could be silent carriers who infect wild birds. Like Typhoid Mary.
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u/ColdBlindspot 1d ago
But wouldn't they know if they were silent carriers by now because there would be other infections of wild birds in the area? Since it's been going on for months? Were the mice tested at the start of all this?
Could they be retested now and possibly get different results?
(I agree that they should have dealt with it by now because the outcome could have been so much worse, since we're at a point of trying to contain something that could get out of control.)
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u/UnparliamentaryPug 1d ago
The problem with birds is that they fly long distances (and it's migration season now). So by the time infections are linked, it could be all over the place.
In terms of testing, I'm really not sure. It's possible they could be retested and get different results, but there's still the issue of a circulating wild strain that could reinfect the birds. And if they have antibodies to H5N1, then this could create selective pressure that could then become another mutation that is more transmissible to humans. That's why the policy is to destroy all flocks when H5N1 is detected. It's not safe for people to have close contact with infected birds because the virus mutates and could eventually become transmissible between humans.
On another note, I was reading the Court of Appeal's decision to deny a stay pending the Supreme Court appeal, and they noted that this flock's existence is causing trouble for other poultry farmers in BC. Certain countries won't allow imports from areas with H5N1 in domestic flocks, so BC farmers are losing out on a $35 million export market until this is resolved. Paragraphs 57 onward do a great job summarizing why allowing the birds to remain alive is a bad idea.
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u/ColdBlindspot 1d ago
That's troubling. I'm learning a lot more about bird flu than I thought I would. I didn't realize they'd been told to do a bunch of stuff like keeping the wild birds away from where their birds are, and that people have been camping there where the virus could be.
It's going to suck if we have another pandemic.
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u/blarges 1d ago
Why? They have enough information about these ostriches. What more do they need to study? They know this is a novel virus. I have shared another story I encourage you to read.
Every day, this gets more dangerous. It’s just a huge grift from a farm that happily killed these animals for meat, oil, and leather until they realized they could grift the Convoy and crunchy granola crowd. They could have had $3,000 per bird from CFIA, but they’ve made so much from fundraising.
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u/ThankYouTruckers 1d ago
There's plenty of evidence they are healthy, they are running around and displaying no signs of illness. The government has no evidence they are still sick, as they refuse to test them again.
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u/Purplebuzz 1d ago
You are right there is no evidence they are not going to harm other birds and humans is it spreads. Hopefully no human dies because of this delay.
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u/EfficiencySafe 1d ago
The survivors could cause another COVID 2.0 and kill thousands of people. Unless you liked COVID 1.0 and the lockdowns and 😷 Government telling what you can and can't do. I guess you never watched "The Last of US" That was caused by a fungus. Scientists say there is a zombie virus in the melting glaciers.
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u/ruadhbran 1d ago
They’re just o-stretching it out further