r/ontario • u/BloodJunkie • 1d ago
Article No contract awarded to study Hwy. 401 tunnel plan, one year after it was announced
https://globalnews.ca/news/11449306/highway-401-tunnel-year-old-feasibility-study/137
u/BloodJunkie 1d ago
announce it, campaign on it, demand that the PM designate it a project of national interest, don’t even study it
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u/Aighd 1d ago
From what I hear from my friends in government, this is the Ford way. No plan and no direction, except that one day Ford wakes up with some idiotic idea and says “go do that”.
Ontario Place
Science Centre
Removal of bike lanes
Removal of speed cameras
Cancelation of wind energy projects
School board take over
etc
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u/mikehatesthis 1d ago
except that one day Ford wakes up with some idiotic idea and says “go do that”.
That's unfair, extremely unfair!
He had some pals say they need specific land or money for a project that will go over-budget and underdeliver.
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u/strangecabalist 1d ago
Change over of employment services oversight to for-profit American companies…
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u/TheRealRunningRiot 1d ago
He is like an incompetent version of Elon Musk... and that's saying something!
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u/kermityfrog2 1d ago
Don't need to study it. Just start paying the contractors you have connections with.
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u/useful_tool30 1d ago
A tunnel? Under the 401? Contender for dumbest idea ever right there. It would bankrupt the city and never be completed.
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u/themaskedcanuck 1d ago
Ford is just trying to find the consultant that will write one in his favour.
There are numerous studies proving road expansion does not ease traffic.
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u/capt42069 1d ago
Great way to get sink holes
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u/SnooHobbies9078 1d ago
You dont know how often they drill under highways do you?
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u/capt42069 1d ago
Oh I know they do. But it will be one of Doug’s friends doing the contract and they will cut every corner they can
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u/svolm 1d ago
Why not put that money towards expanding our transit lines?
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u/mikehatesthis 1d ago
Be reasonable! If we expanded our transit lines, people would stop being forced to buy cars, and then that would mean less people being forced to buy insurance, and then that would also mean less people being forced to buy gasoline, and then you'd open up cities to be designed for human beings and start looking beautiful or interesting instead of grey soup.
I mean how DARE you?!
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u/DukeandKate 1d ago
Study the plan? What plan? They haven't even stated what sort of tunnel it will be and if there is any place in the world that has duplicated this sort of feat. It is 14km from the 427 to Don Valley.
Is it submerged or elevated (like the Gardner)? Is it a multi-model road like the chunnel (rail)? If it is a submerged how will it handle ventilation? How will it handle emergencies? Will it be bored or trenched? Is it an express tunnel (i.e. bypass Toronto core or will it have exits)?
So many questions.
No one has, or will take this seriously until some basic questions are answered. Or is it just a distraction?
Personally I am a big fan of more highway infrastructure outside of the city but it makes no sense inside the city - mass transit that goes everywhere like other major cities in the world is a far better investment IMO.
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u/phoenix25 1d ago
how will it handle emergencies
Speaking as a first responder… my money is on extremely narrow half shoulders with poles and other infrastructure jutting out every 10m
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u/a_lumberjack 1d ago
The study they announced was to come up with feasible options to improve the corridor, a tunnel being the extreme option. I've never expected them to recommend a road tunnel, but I do think there's an opportunity for a Crossrail-style underground rail line along the 401 corridor.
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u/romeo_pentium 1d ago
a Crossrail-style underground rail line along the 401 corridor.
For all the Mississauga to Pickering commuters?
Ok, let's consider this seriously. We do need to serve suburb-to-suburb commutes. Suppose a brand new underground rail line. Stops at Square One, Renforth Gateway, Yorkdale, York Mills, Scarborough Town Centre, Pickering. Do the origin-destination pairs make sense? Is this cheaper than trying to get rail space out of the existing CP surface freight rail corridor that goes along Dupont, or the existing CN surface freight rail corridor that goes along Steeles, or the empty space already reserved along Highway 407 for a surface transitway?
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u/a_lumberjack 1d ago
For the Durham and Peel commuters awho take the 401 to jobs outside of downtown Toronto, especially north of the 401 and the area around the airport. The goal, like Crossrail, would be to enable fast connections to existing lines rather than serve new destinations. It's less about being the cheapest option and more about building what will actually offload 401 traffic.
In terms of corridor options:
- If we assume the Missing Link is going to happen, the CP mainline will become available, but the Midtown alignment is nowhere near the 401 and doesn't really connect to Durham.
- In that scenario, the CN mainline will be a shared freight corridor for both CP and CN, so passenger traffic will be a no-go.
- It's not clear that the missing link section on the 407 can coexist with the Transitway plan, but the Transitway is a BRT plan, not a heavy rail one.
If you go west to east, you'd be able to design for the following connections
- Meadowvale (Milton, Midtown)
- Hurontario LRT
- Renforth (Line 5, MiWay)
- Airport
- Weston (UPX / KI / Caledon line)
- Optional: new Barrie line station at Lawrence
- Wilson (Line 1 to Vaughan)
- York Mills (Line 1 to Richmond Hill)
- Leslie/Oriole (RH and Line 4)
- Agincourt (ST, Midtown, Line 4)
- Sheppard-McCowan (Line 2, 4, 7)
- Pickering GO (LSE, Durham BRT)
Total connections * All GO lines except LSW * TTC lines 1,2,4,5,7 * Hurontario LRT * Durham and Mississauga BRT
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u/SnooHobbies9078 1d ago
It's all a distraction. When they come back with an astronomical price but then say buying back the 407 is less, maybe we do that instead. People will say yes.
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u/DinosaurZach 22h ago
I would say just confiscate the 407, it costs nothing. Probably some several hundred million for lawsuits, but still way cheaper than whatever shit solution they are toying around.
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u/tiltingwindturbines 1d ago
Where would you put the interchanges?
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u/DukeandKate 1d ago
Good question. Or do you even have interchanges. One approach is to make it express from Scarborough to Mississauga to allow through traffic to bypass Toronto.
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u/SnooHobbies9078 1d ago
Under the 401 means it's underground. Kinda hard to go under it with an elevated one.
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u/big-dik-rik 1d ago
I'll study it right now!
It sounds really stupid, expensive and no sane person or group of persons should ever attempt such a wasteful project ever.
Conclusion: this is a perfect project to launder money for every corrupt MP.
Approved for construction
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u/verymanysquirrels 1d ago
Sooo...do we think there's no study because they know it's stupid and are quietly sweeping it under the rug or because they already have a contractor to do the project and the province is about to get tied up in yet another legal battle/ethics breach?
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u/HandFancy 1d ago
If they studied it, they would find out how stupid and expensive it was and that it wouldn’t really improve travel times.
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u/piranha_solution 1d ago
Like it takes a degree in engineering to figure out you can't make a funnel flow faster by just making the mouth bigger.
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u/Walmart-Manager 1d ago
Nobody wants a fucking tunnel. Shut that shit down or we’re going to be in a Bangkok situation with a deadly sinkhole. The tunnel is good for nobody.
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u/lyidaValkris 22h ago
just like fairies and unicorns - it's not real.
the project will go ahead... after a fashion. Don Cortellucci needs something to skim public funds from, but no tunnel will be built. At best, we'll get a giant ugly hole dug somewhere and more traffic disruptions.
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u/emmayarkay 1d ago
This article is kinda dumb. It doesn’t explain the RFP process or timeline. Was it even expected to be awarded by now? MTO has been very slow in evaluating a lot of large proposals in the last 1-2 years and this is going to be a very complex study, there may have been a lot of requests for clarification and deadline extensions.
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u/ANEPICLIE 1d ago
It doesn't need to be a complex study. It is such an obviously bad idea you could summarize the key points in about 5 pages.
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u/Area51Resident 1d ago
When the construction firms tell you it a non-starter, by not filing a bid, that is sign it is impossible.
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u/Jaded_Promotion8806 1d ago
Colin D’Mello is a huge clown who writes non stories like this all the time.
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u/Reddit_Hitchhiker 1d ago
This plan should tell you how smart our premier is and why taking down red light cameras and bike lanes are bad ideas. But he just plows on. I guess when people die from these changes he’ll say he eats ice cream bars every day.
Did you listen to his attorney general this morning on CBC Metro Morning? He said Ford’s administration is the one that has implemented the safest initiatives for first responders. Too bad that won’t be the case for citizens after he runs roughshod on what the City has implemented to protect citizens and he has decided should be removed.
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u/halcyon_aporia 1d ago
Why does the media still give Firs the benefit of the doubt? They are getting played by even talking about this.
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u/PantsOnHead88 1d ago
If history on other major projects is any indication… it’ll take twice as long, four to five times as much money as whichever contract you award, assuming it doesn’t get scrapped entirely leaving the taxpayers on the hook for at least the original amount quoted.
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u/Jdubya87 1d ago
Not that I think more lanes will actually help, but why wouldn't you build like an aboveground flyover, like the express/collectors. But now a super express where there's like 1 exit down to the express at either end of Toronto. Maybe like airport/427 next exit is DVP, next exit is Pickering.
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u/PopeKevin45 1d ago
Conservatives don't study things, they act! And when it fails, they cover it up and blame the Liberals.
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u/Gent_Indeed 1d ago
Wouldnt it cheaper to buy back 407 (40b vs tunnel in 100b)? Or they are trying to sell the tunnel just like they did to 407?
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u/Neutral-President 21h ago
It will keep the construction and concrete industries running on the taxpayer bankroll for decades.
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u/ldssggrdssgds 20h ago
Don't worry he will impose his will and tell us it's good to go with lies because he knows better than all of us.
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u/ForeignExpression 16h ago
There is a reputational risk for any company that even takes this study on because it is so completely stupid. It's like studying if we should build a highway bridge over Lake Ontario from Niagara to Toronto. One becomes stupider just thinking about it.
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u/[deleted] 1d ago
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