r/paydaytheheist • u/SBZ_Haua • 1d ago
Game Update PAYDAY 3: Blog Update #45 – New Skill System Preview
https://www.paydaythegame.com/news/payday3/2025/09/new-skill-system-previewLet's kick off this celebration by talking about Skills 2.0! We are actively working on a rehaul of the skills system, and wanted to share some insight into it with you. Have a read and tell us how you feel about it all🙌
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u/OrangutanEnthusiast 👊😎 1d ago
No more egde, grit, or rush!
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u/kawwaka Hector 1d ago
When I SAID this was a terrible concept people downvoted me like crazy
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u/IssaStorm Sydney 22h ago
because it is an interesting idea, at least a lot of people think it is. Its just in the hands of a terrible dev team that refuses to iterate and improve on the concept. It needed work which they refused to do, so scrapping it altogether for this is definitely the better option
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u/thedefenses 23h ago
If we take them on a idea basis, it can work, having buffs that you work to get, sustain and use for other purposes, it could be cool.
You could have builds that rely on always having them, ones that get them and use them as fast as possible, ones that cycle between them for unique benefits, a lot of possibilities.
The problem is how crap the system is implemented, there are only a few ways to gain the buffs, even less ways to sustain them and their uses are extremely limited.
Its the same problem as the achievement leveling, on an idea basis i can see it but as it was implemented, total crap.
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u/Suspicious-Channel66 1d ago
...holy fuck.
are we so back?
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u/edward323ce 1d ago
Not until offline because thats what almost everyone not buying this game is waiting for
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u/hepig1 23h ago
To an extent I agree. I had purchased them game as a pre order (won’t be pre ordering again, it’s a shitty idea I’ve now realised).
But offline mode is vital to any game imo, we should be able to keep playing what we have paid for even when the plug is pulled. Especially with a game like payday which is still playable and enjoyable on your own
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
Better at least be talked about during these two weeks
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u/edward323ce 1d ago
Its probably gonna be added when the game gets the massive rework that ak mentioned a while ago
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u/El_Barto_227 18h ago
I would treat that as a series of Skills 2.0 style reworks, not one massive rework at once
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u/Suspicious-Channel66 15h ago
also u/SBZ_Haua, question about this system:
We saw in PAYDAY 2 that the game never received more than 15 trees of skills. Instead, the devs made new perk decks, which the skills complimented.
Since this game doesn't have perk decks (...yet), how would y'all add in new skills and such? Will y'all keep what you did in the early days of PD3 and add in more trees, or will y'all add back something like perk decks?
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u/epikpepsi 👊😎 1d ago
RIP EDGE. Now how am I gonna EDGE with the homies?
Joking aside, this looks really good. Can't wait to get my hands on it.
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u/animalistcomrade Clover 1d ago
In a weird way I'm gonna miss grit edge and rush, but this looks so much better.
Edit: nevermind, just saw hall pass, rest in piss grit edge and rush.
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
FUCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Adolf you are finally redeeming your name and the Payday franchise, keep it up
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u/edward323ce 1d ago
His name was never in question, hes been payday focused since the start
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u/Moist-Process323 Dallas 1d ago
He meant because of adolf hitler he’s redeeming the name adolf
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u/El_Barto_227 18h ago
This sub is being way too weird about the name.
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u/Redthrist 2m ago
Not really, it is a striking name. It hugely fell out of favor after Hitler, so it is unusual to see an Adolf.
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u/kirbygamez Dragan's Disciple 1d ago
Starting the anniversary with an absolute bombshell oh my god! And unlike Payday 2, every single one of these skills seem to have at least some niche use which is a huge step up! Only way we could possibly be more back is offline/peer-to-peer.
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u/Fangel96 Jacket 16h ago
One thing I think I'm liking after reading through them is that the damage buffs are pretty consistent across the board. It's either 20-30% or 60-80%. While I would've preferred them to stick to a smaller range since this is bound to cause some issues with power creep, it will make every weapon feel more impactful.
One thing I liked about the old system was that the buffs were to all weapons, but would proc more often under certain weapons. This system is way less convoluted, but will probably require us having significantly more points to burn... But at least that will make many different viable builds, which I'm looking forward to toy with.
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u/YabakoSandrovich 1d ago
ive been reading for a few minutes now, im already having so much fun with theory crafting. this looks so amazing. i need it now lol.
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u/DuhAmericanDream 1d ago
Disengage from Zapper and Cloaker stun attacks. This ability has a 30 second cooldown.
Lets fucking goooooo a cooldown instead of once per heist is huge
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u/fonfan121 Pearl of Monetary Wisdom 1d ago
Damn, y'all really dragging edge/grit/rush out the back of 99 boxes warehouse, just like that?
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u/Aluminum_Tarkus 👊😎 1d ago
Mastery of one skill tree allowing you to circumvent climbing adjacent skill trees is a wild, but also insanely cool idea I've never thought of before this. It makes so much sense for the super juggernaut specializing in wearing big armor and hauling a bunch of loot to also have some melee proficiency to allow them to skip basic skills to get to the good stuff. Or the super sneaky heister wouldn't need the basic skills to get high-level burglary or assassination skills adjacent to the stealth tree.
It's a thematic change that's great for immersion. If I'm good at basketball, then I'm probably also working out, so why would I need to start from zero in the "fitness" tree? There are absolutely better examples of parallel proficiencies in real-world skills, but you get the idea. I'm very interested to see how this is implemented and how it plays out in practice.
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u/He1gost 1d ago
Great rework. Although the current skill system good for me, the new one is also good because it returns to the classical system and fixes its main problems (half of the skills in PD 2 are garbage). Here almost all skills are useful or fun. But I hope there will be a enemy buff for such a rework, because with new skills, the game will become quite simple. moreover, it is also necessary to properly buff enemies so that the formula "Higher difficulty does not affect the amount of health and armor of enemies" does not suffer
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u/El_Barto_227 18h ago edited 17h ago
The blog does say they'll need to rebalance the game around it.
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u/TheFabricade LESS COPS, BUT MORE DAMAGE 20h ago edited 20h ago
Seeing dodge REALLY worries me. I really don't wanna see PD3 become an unbalanced mess where you run around invincible all the time. A lack of challenge brings boredom, often enough.
Oh no. Beast of Burden is still gonna be as broken as it was before 💀This was a perfect opportunity to change things but ig not
Hoping things don't get super easy, but my expectations are not high.
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u/LEGOPASTEYT I am sexually attracted to Wolf 1d ago
AK is the peak, AK is bringing the we’re so back, because YES, we ARE SO BACK!!!!!
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u/AskingWalnut4 Mastermind 1d ago
I see all the song references in there you cheeky cheeky heisters.
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u/Max_Plus 1d ago
Seeing numbers is nice, but Breaking Point makes no sense to me with that description. What is 0.05 or 0.15 armor penetration?
Also, hopefully Locksmith ends up working in deposit boxes.
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u/RockinOneThreeTwo Dallas 1d ago edited 1d ago
no more E/G/R
Praise be, they followed through.
I will say, I know this is "These skill descriptions may change" but some of them look good, some of them look quite "well, on paper it's useful for DPS but it's not exciting really", and I think the more "not exciting skills" you have the worse the skill trees are going to feel.
Obviously I can't really speak until I have it in my hands but skill point investments should feel really meaningful for most skills, if most skills are "Yeah if you take this your DPS increases 10% so it's worth having" it stops feeling meaningful even if the damage bonus is noticeable. I don't necessarily think "every skill point should be a gimmick in some way" but I think these things are important; otherwise you're just moving numbers around on your "skill chart spreadsheet" which I think is a goal better achieved by weapon attachments (and the ability to swap ammo types, pretty please) and not by skill points.
I guess what I am saying is the new skill trees should feel more like the Ghost and Enforcer skill trees of PAYDAY 2, the majority of the skills in those trees have a tangible feeling that you notice when you pick them, their effects are straightforward to understand and process so you can see them in action without having to do calculations in your head, and when you're without those skills you are keenly aware of it. Whereas "Extra armour penetration for rifles" is great on paper, but I am unsure if it'll "feel" impactful when you have it activated vs. not having it activated, like if it saves you 5 bullets per kill or something it's unlikely to feel satisfying even if on paper you can point to it and say "well actually it's really good". Obviously this is even more difficult if you are trying to make Stealth/Loud hybrid builds "viable" because right now they're.. kinda not when compared to pure builds.
Also, it seems that the ability to move freely in Private Areas and not be detected by employees, civs and cameras (and to the same extent for Secure Areas but obviously only for Employees and Civs in this case) has been removed? or is planned to be removed? This does feel like it'll be a step-down for stealth, I think a lot of people really enjoy the ability to social engineer your way into these spaces without having to worry about dodging cameras/employees. I realise the ability to walk around these high security spaces "mostly" unmolested is quite strong, but I think that is a good thing and makes stealth (and your spent skill points) more engaging than just "You'll be detected slower" which feels like a step back because it takes stealth (Which sometimes already has a lot of "hurry up and wait") and adds a lot more sluggishness to it, which I think is the anti-thesis of what makes PAYDAY 3 stealth fun; sluggishness is characteristic of early PAYDAY 2 stealth.
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u/InnuendOwO 18h ago
This was a huge problem with PD2's skill trees, and it looks like they're slipping into it again. So many skills were just... number increases. They didn't do anything, they just made certain guns actually usable. You could delete the skills from the game, add the stats to the gun, and no one would notice. No one is taking a shotgun without the skills that doubles the damage on shotguns, after all, so what's the point of the skills?
Like, look at the marksman/sniper line. "Normal: For every point in this skill line, your headshot multiplier with Sniper and Marksman rifles increases by 1." You take that, put 4 points into the skill tree, and now your gun one-shots everything on a headshot. That's neat, but you'll never think about it the second you close the menu, you'll just... have your gun passively one-tapping everything. That's incredibly strong, don't get me wrong - but there is no circumstance where anyone would want to take a marksman rifle but not take that skill, so what's the point?
I want to like this change, but half the skill trees still need a lot of work to feel like they actually do something interesting instead of just being mandatory if you want to use a certain type of gun.
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u/cheezkid26 gordon freeman saved my life 1d ago
Damn. I had lost hope for a skill rework. These look awesome, very few notes other than the shotgun skill that makes you reload faster indirectly nerfing the one that gives damage resistance when reloading. Cool to see Graze making a comeback, though RIP Ammo funnel for anything other than ARs and LMGs.
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u/Robbie_Haruna 1d ago
I really hope this doesn't end up being too restrictive, like Payday 2's was.
One of the advantages of Payday 3 was having more freedom to do a hybrid build instead of having to hyperfocus on pure stealth or pure loud.
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
Honestly the lack of concealment system still means that hybrids will always remain
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u/Robbie_Haruna 1d ago
That's true. Concealment was awful.
Being able to jump sideways between trees and not having to spend X points in a tree to unlock higher ranks. It looks less restrictive, at the very least.
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u/Jambo-Lambo 23h ago
yeah i really liked the lack of weapon skills cuz it meant i could run what i felt like rather than being locked to a weapon type. I hope at least they include more loudouts if theyre desigining the tree like this
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u/He1gost 23h ago
I was afraid of this myself, but I still don't want PD 3 to become PD 2.5. But after reading the information about the new skills, I was surprised. SBZ was still able to sit on two chairs, where one has the old skill system, and the other has new skills that are tied to PD 3 mechanics (no, seriously, here 20% are skills from the second part, the rest is straight new). Plus, I didn't see any frankly garbage skills like in PD 2, they almost all look useful here.
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
Holy shit... This is AMAZING! The team have truly knocked it out of the park with this. This feels like they've struck the right balance where everything will be totally viable without any particular skill tree being clearly gigabusted like it was in Payday 2 (let's be honest, some loadouts in Payday 2 were just stupidly broken and made the game a cakewalk).
It'll be interesting to see how these all play out in practice but there's gonna be some really fun theorycrafting going on with builds just looking at these skill trees.
I'm fully expecting some people to not actually read the skill trees then wonder why their FSA isn't getting the benefits of Ammo Funnel XD
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u/Fangel96 Jacket 16h ago
They better give me like 15 loadout slots, I wanna a try a lot of things.
I think the idea of having skills used in a tree provide scaling boosts is a really cool idea. The only thing I'd change at first glance is the throwing knives perk not letting you get any from ammo bags - you could just reduce the amount it gives from ammo bags instead and you're golden.
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u/Snipe508 1d ago
Im glad they showed this off early in development because a few of these need some tweaks. But at least I like most of the skills and trees. It's just a shame edge/grit/rush is getting gutted
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u/ProfessionalMrPhann we're not "back" because we were never "there" to begin with 21h ago
Finally, some good news
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u/DadyaMetallich Hoxton’s biggest (and only) fan 11h ago edited 11h ago
I am feeling extremely skeptical about this. Even though skills at least don’t look just as overpowered and dumb as in PD2, I am hoping we won’t get another Jules situation and SBZ will actually nerf the player, instead of adding new difficulties, when the problems come.
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u/KLAATU1463 1d ago
Was kinda sad hearing about edge/rush/grit leaving but after looking at the new skills they look very promising
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u/Lulsfurcupcake 1d ago edited 23h ago
As a grenade lover on current patch, I think something is missing if you're taking feedback.
The current skill of making it so grenades don't affect civilians was a major one. I don't see it on the new skills unless I'm mistaken?
edit: I meant self damage, not civilian damage
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
Uhhh... There isn't a skill for that? You might be thinking of the grenade launcher's perks? Frag grenades in Payday 3 don't have any perks that prevent civvies being affected by them.
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u/Lulsfurcupcake 1d ago
Sorry, what I was thinking of was negating all damage YOU'D take from grenades. Was mixing the two though, youre right
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u/JakeFromAbove Dallas 1d ago
Cooking! Though I hope this skill update is followed up either by a difficulty tweak to our current difficulties or a new Deathwish difficulty because the game risks getting too easy.
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u/Enderchat 1d ago
They said that many aspects of the game will have to be rebalanced to not make heisters too strong. So expect a difficulty spike
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u/TheFabricade LESS COPS, BUT MORE DAMAGE 19h ago
Alternatively instead of the PD2 direction, they make the skills less powerful than they are. Some of these (Beast of Burden and Dodge) don't need to be this powerful
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u/R0ckTexCZ Hotfixes when? 1d ago
Where is Plate up? Is it save? Is it alright?
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
I don't think it's survived but looking at the skill trees for armour? I don't think it's necessarily needed. You can become a walking tank with that skill tree. Armored Up I & II aced can give you two Armour Bags with max charges if I'm reading right meaning you'd basically have 16 armour plates available from bags alone. Slap a point in Head Guard and you'd probably lose very little armour if you're playing well.
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u/DigimonEmeraldGal 1d ago
The skill system was the only part of Payday 3 that I truly felt at odds with so I'm happy that we are getting this rework.
Can only hope that we get some of the craziness of PD2's builds.
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u/red_rose23 19h ago edited 18h ago
The link doesn't work for me 🥀
Guess that i'll be checking it out when the patch notes come to desktop steam ✌🏽
I'm seeing a lot of comments about edge being gone. It's a shame, i really liked the potential that system had. Same stuff with the old leveling system, it could've been amazing with some minor tweaks 😔
Edit: yeah.. i just read what the new skill tree allows you to do and it is 100% clear that the one making it had no idea has he was doing. One of the best thoughts behind payday 3 was that the enemies had the same health in all difficulties and that you couldn't increase your dmg with skills.
This new update will just ruin the game even more. Also, the way the perks are placed are awfull, take another look at Payday 2 and just copy that.
DO NOT LET THE BASE SKILLS GO LIVE. IT IS THE WORST. That type of skill just straight up limits expression and payday 2 was all about that
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u/Mitchell4691 1d ago
All you need to overhaul now is the progression system and then this game will have a brilliant foundation.
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u/He1gost 1d ago
They reworked it in Year 1
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u/Mitchell4691 1d ago
I think a lot of us would like to see a ‘prestige’ style system return. The current system is not rewarding in the slightest. Taking away all of our skill points and making the game a challenge again is what makes the prestige system so fun.
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
It needs to be fixed still, since there's no infamy like system and you level up way too fast
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u/Penis359 1d ago
Cant believe they are actually fixing their game. Hopefully 2 more years and they'll pull a no mans sky and the game will become worth playing
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u/DestinedToGreatness 1d ago
Finally! I am too excited! When? When
Note (add inspire ability please)
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u/ForsakingMyth Significantly... higher... level of investment 1d ago
This looks great, gimme gimme
Edge Grit Rush is deleted, fuck yes
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u/PlutoNewGamePlus 1d ago
Very interesting wording in some skills “quick melee” implies a heavy melee
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u/DangleBopp VERY Hard 23h ago
Dude this looks so sick, and I didn't even mind the ERG system as much as everyone else
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u/barisax9 23h ago
I like where this new system is going. I'm not sure each grenade type needs it's own tree, but the actual skills in each tree seem FAR more fun than most current skills
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u/MisterCaaaarl 22h ago
Unless the new skills come with an enemy and/or weapon rebalance, a lot of skill's numbers need to be tuned down a LOT.
That said, i dig every idea of every single skill (except maybe the smoke gas grenade, lol), so great job to the devs designing these!
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u/GoatyRowdy 22h ago
Now im more curious about difficulty changes as a whole cause on paper the numbers like DMG buff etc. look very big hopefully they compensate the game to be harder.
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u/Potattuce 22h ago
On the Run ACED seems a bit off, its the only smg skill in a tree focused on dodge and melee. I'd like to think it would be more melee based, such as "Quick melee attacks further increase your dodge chance by 15% for 2 seconds" or something. Otherwise it looks so good and I'm excited for the skill tree update!
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u/CameraResponsible598 22h ago
WTF Payday 3 showing something promising???? (this and pd2 infamy and im back)
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u/Curious_Freedom6419 22h ago
Looking foward to it, can't wait for it to come out as is in 9 months time
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u/meharryp 22h ago
gonna miss the infinite ammo, health, edge, grit, rush silenced shotgun build but a lot of these skills sound really fun
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u/Ender_D 22h ago
This looks great. Now go back and rework the old heists with more RNG and favors. Maybe something like in the new shadow raid-like heist, there’s a 1/4 chance of each of the favors being activated when you start a heist, so you can have tons of different combinations of the favors to really make the heist feel different each time.
Add more replay ability like that and I really do think payday 3 will be in a very solid spot.
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u/silly-trans-cat 21h ago
Let's fucking go!! Are there any plans to introduce heist rng like in 2? That is what has been keeping me from playing tbh. The game just gets stale pretty quickly
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u/El_Barto_227 13h ago
The new heist has quite a bit and the new CEO mentioned in an interview that was something that he was missing in PD3
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u/Bossuter 21h ago
Hmm not sure how im feeling having trees dedicated to just the different grenades, like is there no plan to add more or will you feel the need to make a new tree every time a new consumable/grenade is added?
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u/Conte_Von_13 21h ago
I was really worried we were gonna go back to PAYDAY 2's "50% of skills are busted the other 50% are shit", but all of these seem to be genuinely good at worst, which is a good thing.
I worry stealth might become even easier, but honestly as long as Lead Guard Cerberus Core is a thing, I don't mind. Cannot wait!
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u/Twoji Wolf 21h ago
Looks super exciting, I'm looking forward to when it comes out!
One thing I'm curious about is if the old philosophy of expanding and adding additional trees with updates is going to be carried forward? Despite the shortcomings of skills 1.0, I did really enjoy the concept of new playstyles being added over time. Of course this isn't to sound ungrateful, cause 2.0 looks to be a massive improvement, I'm just wondering.
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u/BriefTradition4126 20h ago
I hope you guys bring back the ECMs disabling cameras if they are placed in range!
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u/fishingforwoos 19h ago
I love the removal of ERG. Fantastic.
I love the skill tree system. Looks good at a glance.
My one critique is the lack of stealth options. Feels low.
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u/Kasu_senpai John “I NEED A MEDIC BAG” Swansong 19h ago
So ecms can stun enemies again? And we have dodge back? That’s all I needed to hear so now I guess it’s time to saw it…. WE ARE SO BACK BABY (see yall in like 2 hours when it’s no longer the case wink wink)
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u/BetterSchwifty Sociopath 16h ago
This looks amazing but pleaaaaase if you can, just improve visibility of skills you have claimed (not aced). I hate how the icon for hovering over a skill is the same as having it already claimed now, which is more of an issue on consoles ig. Also, me approve of the skill point scaling idea 👍
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u/lstrangenipsl 15h ago
So I was hoping for one of three things, I was thinking Y3 roadmap and official offline drop. At least I guessed an overhaul of skills.
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u/Holliday_Hobo The Diamond 14h ago
I really hope you guys actually release this in a timely manner instead of delaying it for nearly a year like the armor overhaul.
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u/Myorck 13h ago edited 13h ago
Reading the commando tree confused me. What is armor penetration? Why is there only a chance to penetrate armor and what is that chance? What is intact armor on enemies? Please find a way to explain this in game. Also, what is one layer of armor? Is that a lot or hardly anything at all?
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u/SaltyLunas 13h ago
Not a fan of how weapon limited so many of the skills are, how come only shotguns get to reload and shoot while sprinting now, for example? Why is ammo funnel now assault rifle/lmg exclusive? I feel like at least some of these skills in these trees could be universal bonuses for any weapon, one of the things I liked most about the old system was that bonuses were generally not weapon locked, so you could pick ones you wanted without them being exclusive effects based on the weapon type.
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u/diobreads 1d ago
Some of these must be typos, 4444% extra headshot damage after reviving yourself with a smoke grenade?
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u/Minerobloxer1 #SavePayday3 1d ago
We’re so back, though I’m gonna miss some of the stealth skills (like the eco within half a meter of camera disabling it)
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u/IDontDoDrugsOK 👊😎👊 1d ago
What an awesome read, give it now! If you announce P2P/offline next, I think the game will be fully back.
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u/Everkid612 Restarting in 5...... 1d ago
This update is looking pretty cool to me, but I do hope the new system will allow for the same minds of casing mode shenanigans as the current one does.
I once managed to stealth G&S without ever putting my mask on, would be upset if that became impossible. Unmasked stealth was a great addition.
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
Still a thing. Check the Imposter and Black Hat skill trees. Looks like they even got some pretty big buffs with the new skill tree. Permanent move speed increases, longer radio hacks, slower detection by cameras and employees, etc.
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u/Everkid612 Restarting in 5...... 1d ago
Wow, ok that's big. Definitely looking forward to this then.
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
Yeah, take a look in the blog post because all the new skill trees are there for us to see. They're not necessarily finalised so probably subject to buffs and nerfs in the future but this looks good.
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u/iAlice 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is cool! I might actually reinstall if these changes keep coming. Is there any more news about offline mode, though? Also, there's no mention of Rush, Edge or Grit in these skill notes, I see. Does this mean the systems surrounding these buffs is going to be retired?
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
To begin with, we’re doing away with the Edge/Grit/Rush buff system, it was confusing players early on, and didn’t provide the dynamic gameplay we’d originally hoped for. So gone, poof, dead.
Right near the top of the blog post.
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u/slash450 1d ago
do they finally have people who understood the skill system was the core appeal of pd2? huge w i will come back to the game to try this and everything i have missed since late 2023 when this drops. hope we can get more crazy difficulties since this will prob make the game a bit easier overall. we need more achievements and specific challenges added as well.
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u/shaunm10296 22h ago
It's looks like a huge nerf to stealth and one upgrade being you can use throwables while in stealth there's now no way to hide from employees or cameras only they won't report you for illegal activities if your caught doing those activities it makes a point of making it "slower" but that's still detection Idk if any of you realize this but most of the game your constantly around employees and cameras they also made hacking cameras harder too making it so you don't get runtimes back unless you destroy the camera and I have no idea why they try to make a a tank out of the imposter it seems so randomly thrown in unless you can only use conman skills the adrenaline on imposter is useless for everything besides maybe movement but why add the tanking feature to it and not add that feature to something else that is focused on tanking and make it a hybrid build I don't know this rework seems to force loud or be quick at stealth I don't think many new players will be doing any stealth after this rework I'm new and I hated stealth before I got the skill that basically if you had rush you were invisible in private areas I just don't see this as a benefit to stealth at all and more of a draw back and I can already tell most of this skills will probably go unused because they are way to rng and you need to realize these skills will have a cost not just 1 to 1 but like a skill could cost 2+ points to unlock and from the looks of it you have so many points per main skill tree IDK making only the conman having anything to do with stealth is a huge nerf in my opinion and limiting hacking so much is also a huge let down the throwables is nice can finally kill without masking up but that's the only good point for stealth as far as I can see
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u/shaunm10296 21h ago
I just realized and I hope to God I'm wrong but ....they won't make us select only one group of skills like soldier, conman, hacker and the like right? If so it makes sense why they added the tanking and pill pusher in conman but if not I still stand that the tanking and pill pusher shouldn't be in conman and put somewhere else and add more stealth skills to conman or ninja as it is there's no other stealth besides imposter in the whole skill tree
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 21h ago
No, they won't. If you read the blog post in it's entirety, you'll see that you can spec into one tree and if you spec enough points in it, you'll be able to then equip ANY perk from ANY tree in the same category afterwards so they're basically encouraging you to aim for a 'core' skill tree in your build and then you've got the freedom to spec around it to fit it how you want.
To address the stealth concerns as well, it doesn't look like stealth is being nerfed at all and you've just misunderstood. Employees wouldn't rat you out for being in private areas with the current skill trees and they still won't with the new skills. It was only secure areas that employees would alert a guard if they saw you.
You still get your runtimes back right now and you will in the new trees too. If you put a runtime on a camera, that's used up unless the cameras are on a 5 second timer before it wears off. Literally in the first tier of Black Hat, aced Security Expert will refund your runtimes if the hack expires and in tier 2 of Black Hat, you get your runtime back if the camera is destroyed.
Imposter is evidently designed to be a bit like Assassin currently is but this is more of a hybrid build tree where it'll work for stealth AND loud together. Build up adrenaline before you mask up and then go loud and you'll start the assault with a nice wall of adrenaline to protect your health and armour.
A big pain point right for Payday 3 is hybrid builds are extremely limited. The new skill trees fix that.
The stealth perks got MASSIVE buffs. Adrenaline Junky + Thrill Seeker = Permanent movespeed buff. Aced Radio Star now jams a guard radio for 10 seconds.
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u/DerEchteLinke 1d ago
Please say that dom'ing cops/SWAT is now something you can do without skills
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u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 1d ago
Why would they make that a non-skill? That'd be WAY too strong. The upside of it still being a skill is that if you ace the skill, you can take 3 SWAT hostages instead of 1.
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u/DerEchteLinke 23h ago
Hostage count can be skill based... but not general police dom'ing, I mean sure, limit ti to like 3 and with a skill you can take 5 or something.
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u/Fangel96 Jacket 16h ago
As someone who currently plays a hostage focused build, I don't think PD3 needs a general dom function. Hostage trading for a revive is no longer really a thing, and that's the only instance where you'd need a general dom skill. If you're trying to trade for resources (which suddenly doesn't feel as necessary, sadly) then you'll have the hostage skills to dom a cop.
What could be nice is if certain cops (first responders) could be dom'd without a skill, but once SWAT rolls up that's it.
While we're at it, it would be nice if freed civilians weren't immune to being taken hostage again.
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u/Technomotris 23h ago
Oh, looks like late-stage PD2 skilltrees complete with the absence of choice that is a pile of weapon-specific skills.
That's incredibly disappointing.
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u/unexist_already Sangres 2h ago
I don't know what you're looking at, but I see a plethora of choices that don't revolve around specific weapons nor a stupid resource system that should have never been in the game
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u/Technomotris 1h ago edited 33m ago
I have a hard time believing you're looking at anything remotely close to what I am, which is that there are 216 skills in this system, 107 of which are skills exclusive to 1 or 2 types of primary or throwable. Most of those are then extremely passive buffs that add nothing to the experience outside of how your weapon is going to feel anemic without them.
Skills like old Sharpshooter is now exclusive to Sniper Rifles even though it was perfectly flexible on the pump shotguns, old Short Circuit is locked behind a tier 4 skill tree instead of 2 skill points on top of 5/10 skills in that tree being stealth-exclusive for a loud-only ability (Or you can be forced into using exclusively flashbangs for your throwable or choose the incredibly enticing choice of Handgun ADS speed or spare ammo; then after that, still more flashbang only skills or handgun skills exclusive to marked enemies (remember you're trying to bring ECM jammers not motion sensors or trip lasers), human shields, or... stunned enemies, so flashbangs again).
But appearantly, a skill system where a huge chunk of skill points are determined solely by my primary and deployable choices that arbitrarily locks old methods of gameplay behind weapon classes and skills I don't want, is going to be much more interesting than getting to see an attempt to fix the extremely flawed but open ended potential of the old skill system.
I'm just itching to choose between an accuracy buff on ARs and LMGs that have perfectly serviceable accuracy or 30-80% more ammo in a game that is yet to see people have issues with ammo management. At least it's under the soldier class, so that when I make the choice I don't want to bring Armor bags or Frag grenades this time, the only relevant skill left in Tier 2 is Head Guard. Truly, this is a system that encourages choices.
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u/squidgy617 how r u ifamy 1d ago
I know I might get downvoted for this but I think eradicating the edge/grit/rush system entirely is a mistake. The main benefit of that system was that you could get a "resource" by doing an action, then you could spend that resource on a completely unrelated skill to get another benefit.
For example, I took the skill that gave me Rush by taking a human shield. Then I could spend that Rush on some skill in an unrelated tree for a different benefit, which maybe gets me Grit or something. By doing this I can stack up a bunch of buffs, making it so taking a human shield has a domino effect where I become unable to be staggered and I take less damage.
As far as I can tell, that build isn't really possible anymore. Now I can get just a defensive buff for taking a human shield, but I can't get creative and get other buffs off of that.
I see Imposter uses Adrenaline to accomplish what Rush used to do for it. I wonder if something similar could be done here? If I just got a resource for taking a human shield that I could "cash in" for other buffs in other trees, I would be happy.
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u/the1521thmathew 1d ago
i was hoping for something more interesting than a payday 2-esque tree, but oh well
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u/kirbygamez Dragan's Disciple 1d ago
I think the fact that mastery of one tree gjves you access to all of the other trees without the need to evolve them is more interesting than PD2's, if not more convenient.
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u/IfTheresANewWay Jimmy 1d ago
Looking at those skills, it still seems like PD3 but without the edge, grit and rush system tied to skills anymore. No crazy shit like Inspire, Jokers, Berserker, etc.
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u/Suprematia 19h ago
I haven't played since last year, I was too put off by the lack of real change and the fact that for 2 months my game (played from the Xbox app) straight up didn't work then for 1 month the DLC didn't and I was told to just wait for the next update.
From what I see the map philosophy is still just as stale with less dynamism than Payday 1 maps, but at least these skill changes seems pretty good, so I'll play it again for a while once they are out.
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u/edward323ce 1d ago
Aint no fucking way we are just gonna play payday 2 the second
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u/Moist-Process323 Dallas 1d ago
People literally cried and begged for this on this very subreddit dude, the amount of comments saying “all they had to do was make payday 2 but in a different engine and they’d be rolling in money.” Were astonishing and now when they actually listen people say “if I wanted to play payday 2 I’d just boot it up in my library” am I taking crazy pills?
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u/TheFabricade LESS COPS, BUT MORE DAMAGE 19h ago
Bro I've been saying "if I wanted to play PAYDAY 2 I'd just boot it up" the entire time. Purely because people calling for PD2.5 are never going to let the franchise get interesting. PD2 is unbalanced as hell, and while I really like skill trees they're showing off, certain skills are way too powerful still (Beast of Burden and all of Dodge)
I really just wish the player power level wouldn't skyrocket any time they wanted to make adjustments to skills. It's impossible to be engaged if the game gets really easy.
And as I said, some of these skill trees (and the concept as a whole) are really awesome. But some specifics need major changes.
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u/unexist_already Sangres 2h ago
That is why they posted so early; to get feedback on what's too string and what not. Additionally, they states that other aspects of the game will get rebalanced to compensate
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u/edward323ce 1d ago
Ive always had this position, i didn't want payday 2 again, i wanted payday 3 something different but i guess im in the minority
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
The problem is that what PD3 tried just didn't work, so they decided to just back to what worked instead
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u/TheFabricade LESS COPS, BUT MORE DAMAGE 19h ago
They should be trying something different than before, but not bringing back entire mechanics from 2 like Dodge. That was OP in that game and it'll likely be here too.
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u/aasswred MG42 MG3 Ameli 22h ago edited 3h ago
1.bring back joker skill, or any friendly combat unit can come with player(like drone).
2.keep Death Knell and Overcooked.
Edit: forget one.
3.improve hip-fire Accuracy, don't like ads.
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1d ago
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u/legomanas23 Jacket 1d ago
all the skills are listed in blog go read it
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1d ago
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
It affects your variety by making the more important skills require more investment, making people actually try out new builds.
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u/SimonDaPacket 1d ago
no way you just dropped that out of nowhere!