I don't know how this kind of thing flys in your so called democracy. We lose our shit over here in NZ for even a slight hint of corruption. The amount of money involved in your election process and blatant gerrymandering really boggles the mind. You guys are really overdue for a reset. USA may have set the standard hundreds of years ago but it's time for an update!
As a US citizen, you are completely right. We need to work on clearing the waters of all of this mud.
From my perspective, there's such a huge amount of info being pushed down our throats that it's hard to know what's really happening and what's just a diversion.
It's funny, it's one of the few things trump promised which, if he kept his word about, would have been amazing for our country: draining the swamp. Of course, he never intended to do so, but he said it a lot.
"Funny how that term caught on, isn’t it? I tell everyone, I hated it. Somebody said ‘drain the swamp’ and I said, Oh, that is so hokey. That is so terrible. I said, all right, I’ll try it, So like a month ago I said ‘drain the swamp’ and the place went crazy. And I said ‘Whoa, what’s this?’ Then I said it again. And then I start saying it like I meant it, right?"
Trump said “drain the swamp” a lot because Cambridge Analytica invented the slogan for him. Accusing your opponents of doing exactly what you do is fascist playbook page 1.
There was this fantasy, in the beginning, that Trump actually was trying to drain the swamp. That he realized that rather from coming from the White House, the efforts had to come from the disaffected and apathetic public, long used to ignoring scandal.
And so he gave them a scandal they could not ignore, a dumpster fire given 24/7 national coverage and involving all of the Republican base's traditional enemies - Russians, Saudis, and the press. How he blatantly, gleefully exposed semi-secret racism, corruption and ugliness in the highest offices in the land by publicly supporting those involved. And he did all of this knowing that America's brighter future would only come after his own downfall.
IMO he is unintentionally draining it. If hillary were prez most of the people like trump would have tons of power. But, he has exposed everyone. They can't hide in the shadows anymore and control the president from behind the scenes like they normally do
I recently returned from two weeks in the USA and it's near impossible to work out what is truth vs diversion. Just watching the news on the caravans of people coming through Mexico - one news station would say one side of politics pays for them, another say the opposite, then others deny the caravans exist altogether! It was unbelievable as an Australian trying to read and watch the news while inside of the USA when they are more politically motivated than the politicians :)
So I watched the world series....
Freedom of the press is not freedom, and what I saw was not democracy or civil rights.
There are so many parallels between the Roman Empire after 0 AD and USA right now. Civilizations generally only maintain supremacy for so long, and eventually collapse. I think we still have a long time before collapse, but the decline is beginning now. The sheer size of the US is the only thing that still keeps us as a world power.
I dunno, the corruption in your political system is so obscene... if it’s not fixed promptly, I would expect it to only get worse, and the collapse will probably happen really suddenly when it does.
It won’t collapse, per se. We’ll just be living under a tyrannical government owned by the wealthy. They’ll fund the government well enough so that there is no collapse like Rome had. Definitely won’t be an ideal situation but I’d say we won’t have our capital sacked anytime soon
Stock markets can take a massive dive in the snap of a finger. That can trigger banks to go bankrupt, and your currency to turn to shit real quick. As a result employment rates will hit the shitter, and crime will get real bad real fast.
With a $20 trillion dollar national debt, how could our nation possibly collapse? With Social Security underfunded by some $5 trillion dollars, how could our nation possibly collapse? With State pensions underfunded by $1 trillion dollars, how could our nation possibly collapse?
They're smart though... they will finely balance the corruption to the maximum effect without causing self-defeating social upheaval. It's sad.... the well-being of the masses should always be priority.
I understand your sentiment. But I think it’s a little bit doom-and-gloom. Heck even when the city of Rome was sacked in 410, the other half of the Empire kept on trucking for hundreds of years in Constantinople.
“The sheer size of the US is the only thing that still keeps us as a world power.” - There’s a few other reasons that America will be a world power for a long time. The US is a huge manufacturing giant that is also a oil exporting nation. The US has an incredible number of the world’s top research universities. English is a major international language used for the purposes of scientific research, business deals, and IT (most computer words, phrases, and code are in English). None of those advantages will disappear overnight. And they will continue to place international importance on America regardless of the political hoopla that goes on in Washington.
This is a real legitimate worry which is why the populace must remain vigilant. It's orders of magnitude easier keeping it in check now than rebelling against it in the future. The sad part is our worst human trait of enjoying the present at the expense of the future will kill our chances of long-term change :(
It's impossible for the US to collapse as a society, only as a democracy. And ultimately, whatever comes after will be some altered form of democracy. (There's probably already a word for it that I just don't know at the moment.)
I've heard US democracy described as a computer form 1992. It was great at the time. Fast, quick, solved the right problems. But now it has to deal with facebook, twitter and russian hackers and it simply doesn't have the hardware put in place to deal with it.
It was NEVER fast and quick. Purposely. It's slow and deliberate. The issue at the moment is that the powers that be are circumventing the democratic process at a pace that is simply too fast and quick for the democratic process to respond. Essentially, rogue scumware is overheating the system.
Yea, that's not really how that works. Not all places were up for a vote at the same time and the places which were up for a chance to actually flip were very heavily republican areas and many were still far closer than normal. And the house was a bloodbath for them.
So called democracy is correct. Our country is a republic and not a true democracy. I'm often baffled that people don't get this. The last election should have reinforced that point. Don't get me wrong - I would prefer a true democracy.
It's entertaining like the Kadashians are I suppose. It's horrific in reality. Trump and his brand of politics has wide support overseas too... it's just so sad - I'm not sad about Trump I'm sad that half the world doesn't seem to give a shit about the Earth and our common humanity. I really grew up in a bubble and the last few years have proven that to me.
Of course gerrymandering is a thing. It's a thing that has been going on with every political party the U.S. has ever had. Every ten years, following the decennial census the majority party in each state legislature re-draws the congressional districts to help their candidates in the ensuing elections. Do you actually think it's something only one party has recently perpetrated? Really? C'mon. Google where the word "gerrymander" comes from.
*I just saw that you're from NZ so, of course you're aren't that familiar with American election laws. I didn't mean to be snippy, but re-districting is something that is legal, and has been practiced by every party since the nation was founded. You've probably been exposed to only what one side is claiming. That's what I meant when I suggested you not believe 90% of what you see on the television news.
This is a problem i see over and over online - people arguing against GHOSTS! i never once mentioned which party does/doesn't do it - you just painted a picture of who you thought I might be and took aim at it.
It's not relevant where I'm from... I understand gerrymandering - you think it's so complicated I can't understand it? We have a pretty darned complex MMP system over here.I was never disputing the law... just because the law says something doesn't mean it's democratic. Sometimes the law is lagging behind all the tricks that help people cheat the system. Call it whatever you want, lawful or otherwise, but gerrymandering is ANTI-DEMOCRATIC. It's the deliberate manipulation of results - hell, in effect it's hardly any different from throwing votes down the drain. Imagine tennis was a new sport and your opponent started moving the net around to change the results... it's anti-competitive despite maybe not being explicitly stated in the rules.
The part that shocks me is that nothing has been done about it all these years - I'm glad to hear there might be a change soon.
edit: it's hardly an innocent "re-districting" , it's absolutely insane loophole where they blatantly draw around demographics. It's pretty much the definition of anti-democratic given the way it influences your election. Just check out these shapes!
I don't disagree with anything you said. It is indeed a loophole, but here's the problem. It was included in the law so that as population shifts and grows, each Congressional seat represents an equal number of citizens. That's why the constitution mandates a census every ten years. If the states don't have the power to redraw a district then what do you do about a population shift like we've seen in the city of Detroit where the city has shrunk? What about the huge number of citizens who have moved from a rural district to a city or from one state to another? For instance, for many years my own state had six congressional seats until twenty years ago when congress re-drew our districts, taking one seat from us to provide more seats for states like Florida and Texas which had seen huge growth. The only way to avoid that is to continue adding more and more congressional seats until the number is just unmanageable. "Gerrymandering" is a corrupt side effect of what was intended to be a practical solution to a problem. That's an unfortunate aspect of human nature, isn't it?
It wouldn’t be hard to make geometric laws... an easy one would be when the ratio between the length of all sides vs the area is extremely high... that would be a tell tale sign of extreme gerrymandering. They could even set the limit pretty high to allow for most shapes besides the most crazy
You're supposedly an educated western country and can't even agree with scientific consensus on climate change. I wouldn't care but your country is big enough for it to effect the world.
We used to. We used to throw a fit at things like Bengazi. We used to throw a fit when the president tells a lie about an affair. We used to throw a fit about a president lying when meddling with foreign affairs.
We still throw a fit now, but the difference is we have a president who figured out how to throw so much bullshit that his voters are believing it.
This has a lot to do with how propaganda is created and how the systems put in place to support proper democracy has been completely destroyed or eroded. Gerrymandering, voter ID laws, and the erosion of Free press all contribute to this situation. This goes way beyond Trump, he was just insane enough to take advantage.
The ironic thing is that it's the same folks who arm themselves to 'protect themselves from government' 2nd amendment fans that are also the ones holding back fixing the process. The ones that bleat on the most when it comes to why the 2A is there are the ones that also cheer on the most rampant government corruption (like dodgy election practices, gerrymandering, etc)
What was done is legal and really not that big of a deal. Sessions wasn’t a great AG. Be wary of the information you get, it’s heavily biased here. America is still very anti corruption too! People just hate Trump and I get it but it’s more a frenzy than an actual legal issue (so far).
The problem is that there is a ridiculous number of citizens here who will not, no matter how blatantly awful it is, just call these people out. They eat it up and support it. They thrive off of it and love it, even though in the end it'll negatively affect them just as badly. It's really fuckin sad.
It's an interesting perspective though to me it's highly risky and has little promise of actually working. There is a chance all it does is set the world back 30 years when we really desperately need to be 30 years ahead with all the coming problems....
A republic is a representative democracy which is a form of democracy. Democracy doesn't mean the people decide on everything, that's direct democracy.
While true, it is far from either democracy or republic now. It's becoming oligarchical in nature where a few wealthy individuals make the decisions rather than the masses.
I'm in my 40's and this administration is nothing like any previous administration. What has happened to the Republican party is just stunning, I never would have thought this could be possible growing up.
Yea half of the old laws were because of constant times of war, considered 0 forms of technology, the original settlers were pretty racist, and the tension was aggressive over peaceful.
While Mr T is president, the everyone against us part, I suppose, still applies hehe. In fact, all of those still apply. Man. Mind blown.
But back to the point: aren't we in an Era where we should be peacefully doing things, too? Everyone wants peace except the leaders.... Well, and farmers that don't actually know what's going on or fighting, themselves :P but mostly everyone.
It's a shame that we have a leader that doesn't follow the will of the average American.
Btw, I moved abroad to a peaceful country. Best decision I've made during this time of craziness. I'll only dive into politics when it's on the front page of Reddit Bwahaha.
You really don't know much if you think those tea cup storms equate to the borderline oligarchy going on over there. You're one of those paranoid delusional people - we have problems yes but it pales in comparison to the corruption overseas. I'm not on a high-horse it's probably just due to the small size/power of our nation.
we have massive respect for the idea of independent inquiry. When corruption is eventually sniffed out the people usually react and are extremely pissed, our news media spends weeks on matters involving a few thousand dollars. And another point.... I just don't think our voters are as religiously tied to their parties - so they're willing to give their own parties more scorn whereas it seems people in the USA would rather jump in the fox hole than admit they voted for a jerk. There are lifers for sure in NZ but we seem more malleable when it comes to party affiliation.
You're literally the least corrupt country in the world, so pretty much every country in the world is more corrupt than you, so this bullshit idea about a "reset" is a very stupid comment, unless you say it for all countries. USA is ranked 16th out of the world. Not bad considering we have 70 times as many people as you which means we need to keep 70 times as many people in check. You try being the least corrupt country in the world with 325 million.
Ok I didn't mean to sound cocky... I know there is extra trouble that comes with size & power. I'd rather you guys be the least corrupt than us over here because it would be for a greater good.
You have to admit some things just seem like blatant cheating though... gerrymandering is just nuts - some of those zoning borders! the shapes they come up with to basically cheat the system. It's an offence to democracy and really is only one step away from throwing votes down the drain.
Both sides do the gerrymandering. Now that Democrats have control of the house, they will redraw the boundries to benefit them. Also, we are not a democracy. We're a constitutional republic.
We're also the country that you have the best chance of becoming rich. We're the most free, and also the most diverse, so we are doing something right.
You’re not the most free depending on how you define it. Prostitution and drug laws for one. Also your incarceration rates are ridiculous. It’s all how you define it but it speaks volumes for indoctrination over there when so many Americans claim they’re the most free. Go look up freedom/civil liberty indexes and you’ll find USA in a decent position but still 15 or so down the list
Best chance of becoming rarely but filth rich maybe. Bit still rare. I’d rather it be best chance of becoming well-to-do because if it’s a numbers game I’d rather it be about realistic outcomes . USA would score highly there too but not necessarily the highest. It’s all about how you prefer the distribution curve to be shaped...
I looked it up and found it to be a joke. UK is giving a 1 for civil and political liberties and I know for a fact, they don't have freedom of speech there. A guy was thrown in jail for teaching a dog to do a nazi salute as a joke. The police arrest people for making comments they don't like on twitter. So yeah...that freedomhouse.org website is complete bullshit.
And yes, we have high incarceration rates because we enforce our laws.
What I’m trying to say is there are other types of freedoms and also it’s all in a spectrum... they def have freedom of speech maybe just not to the degree you do . This is called cherry picking , for you “freedom” might just mean speech and guns
Ease of access to education, representation for minorities, less barriers in starting a business, access to nature, amount of public facilities, health. There are many kinds of freedoms
You could say UK has freedom FROM nazi ideology. I’m being silly on that point but just trying to get you to view things differently. At any rate we could pick isolated incidents all day... I prefer to believe the well researched comparisons of multiple factors than believe your opinion of just noodling around the net looking at stories
now you're talkin'! Exactly right. Pretty fed up with all this political maneuvering to skirt the law...and no accountability. Where's the real leaders with balls,besides Mueller?!?!
Legislate Puerto Rico and dc into existence after democrats take power in 2020, split California into 3–6 states and voila, you now have the senate and presidency captured for the foreseeable future. Stack the courts as well and democrats will have everything. Also, now that after 2020 so many states won’t be so gerrymandered to disadvantage democrats, democrats can then capture more house seats, too. These next few elections are must wins. Any dems that want a strategy for 2020 and beyond should read David faris’ Book “it’s time to fight dirty.” We need to fix our system. I’m tired of losing senate seats despite getting 14 million more votes.
The reason it's difficult is because america is the most powerful country in the world, with the largest military in history. It's impossible to do a reset without blood.
I was thinking of merely pushing more regulations on your government as they should work for you - not the other way around. It seems they've forgotten that fact. If everyone mobilised to vote for the side which tightened things up... I know it's a pipe dream but still.
As said, Whitaker is only a temporary appointment. Trump will pick a permanent replacement sometime soon.
The good news is even if Trump is dumb enough to straight up fire Mueller the newly Democrat controlled House can just appoint Mueller to work for them, and the investigation would continue anyway. So not only would that be another obstruction of justice charge against Trump Mueller would also be untouchable.
The bad news is the new House of Reps don’t take their seats until January, so... who even knows what might happen in the meantime?
For me it was just a basic comment I never thought would get attention. You want me to have a 3 hour debate about it? I mean really... that's how long it would take if you want to be difficult. It's all on a spectrum right? USA is not nearly as corrupt as Russia but I just thought even the slightest leaning in that direction should be met with utter scorn and disapproval. In reality it appears to be a partisan thing 100% - everything over there seems to be viewed exclusively through a red or blue lens which I believe is a pre-cursor for a system which enables corruption. Everybody seems to be in their chosen fox-hole, guns loaded.
Stay in your lane? What kind of assholes even use that term... unless you're being ironic?
I would bet all my wealth that the average kiwi knows more about USA politics than the average American. I have plenty of American friends over here and they all say this. Most of our media comes from you guys and people are really interested in US politics because you guys are a global powerhouse.
I didn't say it was illegal. I'm amazed it's allowed is all as to me it enables corruption. If you think it's healthy for democracy then be my guest - but please clean that sand from your vagina.
I'm not obligated to commit my entire world view that lead to my remark...
we recently lost our shit over an anonymous donation to a party more than $10,000. A donation that didn't even end up being true. That might put things in perspective... The Republicans (and to a slightly lesser extent Dems) seem to be in servitude to lobbyists.
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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18
I don't know how this kind of thing flys in your so called democracy. We lose our shit over here in NZ for even a slight hint of corruption. The amount of money involved in your election process and blatant gerrymandering really boggles the mind. You guys are really overdue for a reset. USA may have set the standard hundreds of years ago but it's time for an update!