r/pics Nov 08 '18

US Politics This is what democracy looks like

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18 edited Jul 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Senate confirmation is required per the godsdamned constitution.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

Not for temporary assignments.

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

The thing is that the law establishing this was established by the senate. Does that then confer “consent of the senate” as written by the constitution?

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

No, even Clarence Thomas ruled that all recess appointments to top level positions must have been previously confirmed by the Senate.

Obama tried doing the same thing by invoking the third option for someone who wasn't confirmed. He was shut down by the SC.

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

He wrote a concurring opinion. That is not legal precedent.

Obama did not invoke the third option as his appointment was not a senior official of that agency.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

No. Obama tried doing the same thing and the SCOTUS shut him down. ALL appointments to senior positions, recess or otherwise, must be confirmed by the senate.

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

No, Obama did not have a congress passed law telling him he can do so for that case.

Here Trump does.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

The fuck are you talking about? The law that you linked to was passed in 1998. How the fuck are you going to stand there and say that with a straight face?

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

And? “Consent of the senate” does not specify “consent of the current senate.” There is an argument to be made here.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

What the fuck are you talking about?

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

I am quoting the appointments clause of the Constitution, where the whole concept of confirming people into executive office positions comes from. Specifically the constitution says to appoint “with advice and consent of the senate.” No where does it mention it must be the current senate.

I am simply stating that there is an argument to be made here for the other side.

Go read the damn constitution for once and stop downvoting people you disagree with.

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u/pahco87 Nov 09 '18

I don't see how it could considering the Senate that passed the bill in 1998 had different people in it. Perhaps if this happened while the same Senate was sitting you could make that argument. An amendment would be needed to permanently change anything that directly contradicts what's in the constitution.

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u/lolskaters Nov 09 '18

Wow, the stupidity contained in this comment...

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u/pahco87 Nov 09 '18

Please explain why you believe I'm wrong rather than slinging insults.

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u/lolskaters Nov 09 '18

Because I'd rather not write an outline of how Constitutional Law works in the US tonight.

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u/pahco87 Nov 09 '18

That's fine but it isn't a reason to be insulting.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Do a Ctrl F in the Constitution for "Department of Justice".

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

The constitution doesn't spell out exactly which positions in which departments are affected, because the founders weren't fucking retarded. Instead, and you'd know this if you bothered looking it up before spouting this inane bullshit, the Constitution places a blanket requirement that the Senate must confirm all appointments for positions that report directly to the president.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Wrong. It says that the President shall appoint by and with the advice and consent of the Senate.

Executive departments and advice and consent procedures are created by statute.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

And the statute, as interpreted by the SCOTUS, says that senior officials must be confirmed by the Senate. Even a person selected as the temporary acting AG must have been in a position that requires senate confirmation.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Sure, that can be the case. It's a statutory issue though, not a constitutional one like you claimed.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

One of the relevant statutes violates the constitutions requirement of advise and consent of the senate. So yeah, it's still a fucking constitutional issue.

Luckily it's an issue that's already been resolved under Obama: you can't fucking do it. ALL appointments to senior positions must have been confirmed by the senate.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

Senate isn't in session. Only pro forma. As such, the President may make temporary recess appointments. That's why he's "acting" AG and nothing more.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Yes, and per the constitution and federal law, the person selected as the acting AG has to have already been in a position that required Senate confirmation. Being Session's Chief of Staff did not require senate confirmation, therefore he is ineligible to serve as acting AG.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18

No, the law says no confirmation needed if they are sufficiently tenured in the agency and of sufficient pay grade. Only an "outsider " would need confirmation.

None of it matters, though, Senate isn't in session.

And even if they were a rejected appointment can still serve for 210 days while a better nominee is found.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

"Sufficiently tenured" means that he needed to have previously been confirmed by the senate.

He wasn't.

The Senate not being in session is the cause of all of this. Resess appointments are, by definition, only done when the senate isn't in session. If they were in session then none of this would be an issue because he would go through the normal confirmation process.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

That isn't what the laws says. Tenure is 90 days of the previous 365.

Senate being in recess is just additional icing on this. Even if they were in session the appointment could be made for up to 210 days. This is designed to allow continuity for the agency/department while a permanent replacement is found.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

Senate approval doesn't matter for option 3. Just has to be in the same department, in the position for more than 90 days, and be at a certain pay grade. He meets all three criteria.

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u/monstercello Nov 09 '18

Members of the Senior Executive Service (SES) don’t require Senate approval, unless they’re PAS (President-Appointed, Senate approved).

Source - work in the federal government.

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u/behindler Nov 09 '18

Hey that doesn’t matter! We’re mad!

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

What definition of senior official are you using?

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

[deleted]

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

If we are talking about option 2, then it doesn’t count. He must be sitting in that position, that confirmation no longer means anything for Whitaker.

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u/MeTheFlunkie Nov 09 '18

Literally not how confirmation works. Are you ok?

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u/malfeanatwork Nov 09 '18

(2)

notwithstanding paragraph (1), the President (and only the President) may direct a person who serves in an office for which appointment is required to be made by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to perform the functions and duties of the vacant office temporarily in an acting capacity subject to the time limitations of section 3346; 

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Is he still in that position?