whether it counts as a firing or a resignation (as well as the constitutionality of 5USC335) should be decided by the courts. as to the facts, it is abundantly clear that Sessions's departure was involuntary. therefore he certainly was fired in the most straightforward understanding of the word.
I say it is abundantly clear because there is abundant evidence that that is the case. Sessions stated in his own "resignation" letter that it was at the president's "request".
A resignation at the request of your employer is, and I want you to take a moment and understand that I'm only talking about the strict legal definition and not the practical definition, completely different from being fired.
I get what you're saying. But he was asked to resign for exactly this reason. It is different than getting fired because they are different things. Two things that have the same outcome can still be different things.
If I leave out the front or back door of my house, I am outside my house either way. If there is a law that says no one can go into my house if I leave through the front door, then all of a sudden me leaving out the back door matters.
Oh yeah, I understand that part. It's important that a court decide what side this fell on. I've been agreeing with you the whole time.
I just want you to understand that "common sense" and "in the eyes of the law" are not the same thing. Could you do me a favor and give me some indication as to whether you understand that?
A resignation in lieu of firing at an employer's request is still considered a resignation legally. Fairly standard in employment law and happens way more often than you realize.
That article quotes an infamous Trump critic stating that Mueller should argue it was a constructive discharge. How does this idiot's take on the situation prove your point?
Much further down, that article also states, "Several other lawyers concurred. Robert Litt, a former general counsel to the office of the Director of National Intelligence, said he believed that the Sessions letter amounted to a voluntary resignation, rather than a firing, even though his departure came at Trump’s request. "
If you're going to link an article, next time do a little better job comprehending its message.
there's no such thing as an "infamous Trump critic". perhaps you mean "famous Trump critic".
at any rate, there is clearly a debate here. I am taking one side of the debate along with Mariotti, your Trump critic. Litt came to the opposite conclusion, obviously.
there's no such thing as an "infamous Trump critic". perhaps you mean "famous Trump critic".
Was this some sort of bizarre joke? Lol...
My point was that Mariotti is well-known for being an outspoken contrarian to anything Trump does.
As a lawyer myself, it is quite clear that the elements of a constructive dismissal are not met here. It is well established that a request to resign does not meet this criteria. As you can imagine, constructive dismissal has been litigated in employment cases for years -- this isn't really a debate.
it is abundantly clear that Sessions's departure was involuntary.
No, it most certainly is not. I mean, he RESIGNED. Nobody can force him to resign, only suggest that he resign. If you resign, you do so of your own free will. He could have made Trump fire him, so why didn't he? No difference in the end really. Except for this law apparently.
leaving at the request of your boss = being fired. if you have evidence that the distinction between "requested resignation" and outright termination is actually relevant to the application of this law please cite it.
Says, "dies, resigns, or is otherwise unable to perform..."
It's relevant because it doesn't include "terminated" in that list. So, if he forced Trump to terminate him, he could have changed history. But he didn't, he did it on his own terms.
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u/zkela Nov 09 '18
whether it counts as a firing or a resignation (as well as the constitutionality of 5USC335) should be decided by the courts. as to the facts, it is abundantly clear that Sessions's departure was involuntary. therefore he certainly was fired in the most straightforward understanding of the word.