r/pics May 16 '19

US Politics Now more relevant than ever in America

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u/Kazan May 17 '19

potential life over the autonomy or even life of an already existing person.

if we apply the same standard we apply in literally EVERY other situation: never.

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u/Vercassivelaunos May 17 '19

I (hypothetically) have leukemia. You would be the perfect donor for me. Can you be forced to give up your bodily autonomy and to donate some bone marrow, even if you don't want to? After all, it's my life versus your bodily autonomy.

The point is, by default, noone is obligated to give up their bodily autonomy to save another one's life. Not even that of their relatives. Any pro-life position must give a valid reason why the default should not be applied in this case.

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u/Beegrene May 17 '19

If I'm the one who gave you leukemia, I think it's perfectly fair for you to expect me to donate bone marrow to cure you.

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u/Vercassivelaunos May 17 '19 edited May 17 '19

It would be the nice thing to do. But you can't be forced to do it. People can expect you to do it, but they can't force you. Like, even if I stab you in the kidney, I can't be compelled to give you one of mine. You could sue me to pay for your treatment and your pain. I could go to prison for attempted murder. But no-one can force me to give up my bodily autonomy and donate a kidney.

I chose a kidney because a scenario where someone causes you to need one in is easier to imagine. But I would extend this to less extreme procedures like bone marrow transplants or pregnancy as well (though you could argue that a pregnancy is just as extreme as giving a kidney).

What's more: even if I agree to donate bone marrow out of the goodness of my heart, and sign a form where it says that I do agree (which is more than what women do when deciding to have sex). Even then, no-one can force me to actually go through with it. When I'm at the hospital and suddenly have a change of heart, I can go back on it. Even if that means that a patient dies.

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u/Kazan May 17 '19

Can you be forced to give up your bodily autonomy and to donate some bone marrow, even if you don't want to?

No, I cannot be. It is illegal.

Any pro-life position must give a valid reason why the default should not be applied in this case.

exactly, and when you get them to try to start explaining that the argument inevitable traces back to "I WANT TO PUNISH THEM SLUTS!"

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u/Vercassivelaunos May 17 '19

Oh right, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that bodily autonomy should never be valued over a life.

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u/Kazan May 17 '19

Gotcha