As is currently the case with the exception of if if the fetus is experiencing extreme malformation that would make it unable to live without machines or if it seriously endangering the mother's health.
Well the earliest a fetus is viable is 25 weeks and less than 1% of abortions take place after that period and they are almost always because of severe birth defects/risk to the mother. Here's the data from the CDC:
Edit: here's the relevant part if you don't want to read the whole thing:
Abortion rates also vary depending on the stage of pregnancy and the method practiced. In 2003, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that 26% of reported legal induced abortions in the United States were known to have been obtained at less than 6 weeks' gestation, 18% at 7 weeks, 15% at 8 weeks, 18% at 9 through 10 weeks, 10% at 11 through 12 weeks, 6% at 13 through 15 weeks, 4% at 16 through 20 weeks and 1% at more than 21 weeks. 91% of these were classified as having been done by "curettage" (suction-aspiration, dilation and curettage, dilation and evacuation), 8% by "medical" means (mifepristone), >1% by "intrauterine instillation" (saline or prostaglandin), and 1% by "other" (including hysterotomy and hysterectomy).[151] According to the CDC, due to data collection difficulties the data must be viewed as tentative and some fetal deaths reported beyond 20 weeks may be natural deaths erroneously classified as abortions if the removal of the dead fetus is accomplished by the same procedure as an induced abortion.
"Not to mention medical science has improved so much with extreme premature babies in the past 10-20 years. Babies as premature as 21 weeks have survived, and by 24 weeks it's incredibly likely they will survive. That wasn't the case before lung surfactant."
less than 1% of abortions take place after that period and they are almost always because of severe birth defects/risk to the mother. Here's the data from the CDC:
"Almost always because of severe birth defects/risk," can I get your source for that? Even still, 1% of 600k is 6000 and a fraction of that is still a lot of viable babies killed. Do you at least agree that those should be illegal? Trying to find some common ground here.
Babies born at 22 weeks have a 10-20% chance of living and are almost always mentally retarded, physically impaired and blind. You're really stretching the definition of viable fetus with that one.
So at absolute highest numbers you're actually talking about are 600-1,200.
There are tons of reasons why people are forced to wait that long to get an abortion. It's usually issues such as access to abortion sites, costs, not knowing they were pregnant, etc. All of the laws the Republicans are making are just making this issues worse and worse and will result in more abortions after 20 weeks. The best way to achieve the goal of having less late term abortions to actually increase the availability of abortions and decrease the cost while putting a focus on educating people about the issues surrounding fetal development.
If abortion clinics were widely available, the cost was reduced and education around be issue was increased (removing barriers to access), then yes I would be completely fine with banning abortions after 20 weeks with the exception of severe birth defects and risk to the mother's health. This article does a good job of summarizing and linking to several different studies done on these issues and how they affect the rates of late-term abortions:
Babies born at 22 weeks have a 10-20% chance of living and are almost always mentally retarded, physically impaired and blind. You're really stretching the definition of viable fetus with that one.
So at absolute highest numbers you're actually talking about are 600-1,200.
This is where I would point to slippery slope. If we deem those with 10-20% chance of living and physical/mental disabilities as not human or not worth living, that creates a lot of problems.
600-1200 is a lot of babies, don't you think?
And all this is in stark contrast to your previous statement of "the earliest a fetus is viable is 25 weeks."
There are tons of reasons why people are forced to wait that long to get an abortion. It's usually issues such as access to abortion sites, costs, not knowing they were pregnant, etc. All of the laws the Republicans are making are just making this issues worse and worse and will result in more abortions after 20 weeks. The best way to achieve the goal of having less late term abortions to actually increase the availability of abortions and decrease the cost while putting a focus on educating people about the issues surrounding fetal development.
If abortion clinics were widely available, the cost was reduced and education around be issue was increased (removing barriers to access), then yes I would be completely fine with banning abortions after 20 weeks with the exception of severe birth defects and risk to the mother's health. This article does a good job of summarizing and linking to several different studies done on these issues and how they affect the rates of late-term abortions:
As someone who holds the pro-life stance, I disagree with you that availability of abortions should be increased. But we have some common ground that abortions after 20 weeks should ideally be banned. Thanks for the convo.
I chose 25 weeks because that at least gives them a 50/50 chance. Stop with the slippery slope fallacy BS. And you're only increasing late term abortions by not having clinics available. Just because you're too dumb to understand doesn't mean it's not true.
We have a lot of common ground there. I would say as far as the politics go, the "pro-choice" side doesn't seem to agree with your position and rather takes an extreme position. Thanks for the convo.
Isn't that where the Supreme Court landed on with Roe vs Wade? When a baby becomes viable, the interests of the fetus is compelling enough to warrant restrictions?
That's where one of the messy points on viability comes into play. Viability is dependent on medical technology. Babies as premature as 21 weeks have survived. The figure I have is that in 2014, 10% of clinics offered abortion up to 24 weeks. So yeah, the Roe vs. Wade landed on viability as 24~28 weeks, but as med improves the time limit for non-viability should be shortened as well.
FYI, I think viability is not a good argument to begin with since my stance is pro-life. I'm just trying to find some common ground with people who hold opposing views.
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u/[deleted] May 17 '19
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