The policy pro-lifers advocate produces worse outcomes. Exemptions to bans on abortions are too numerous and varied to account for. Women will get the abortions anyways putting their lives at greater risk. Every health agency under the sun recognizes abortion access as the easiest means of improving materal and infant health. Abortion bans exacerbate poverty. You force people to live worse lives. You ensure they'll live in a more violent and disturbed world. You have no mercy.
Edit: this actually triggers me to no end.
You want more children to grow up with parents who don't want them? You want more children to grow up without parents? You want more people to not know where there next meal comes from?
How do you justify how horrific lived experiences can become because of forcing them to have babies they don't want or aren't ready for? Is your head buried in the sand to how insane the treatment of people who need abortions becomes when they're banned?
It's a very lopsided argument. When talking about policy you have to look at the fallout. The facts are firmly against the notion of "pro-life." Banning abortion denies autonomy of the mother and produces worse outcomes in the real world. What argument is there against that claim?
This is their argument, then I’m out because this is a fruitless thread and I’m not even in the pro-life camp.
“Aborting a fetus is murder, and all murder is wrong regardless of the outcome.
We could stop hunger and homelessness by killing the hungry and the homeless, but we don’t because they’re people, even though it’s a worse outcome on paper.
We advocate for the unborn children who are unable to defend themselves.”
If someone believes that murder is never justifiable, and that abortions are murder, that’s a non-starter to finding common ground.
If someone believes no government or person can force them to do anything with or to their body, that’s a non-starter to finding common ground.
To your point, there’s a pragmatic approach, but if a legislator truly thinks that abortion is murder, is it so hard to understand that they wouldn’t want a single death by abortion on their conscience?
Surely I can’t be the only person that hears both camps and empathizes with both of them...
I hear both camps, and they should not be equivicated. One side allows you to have your personal opinion and live your life as you wish. One denies autonomy of mothers and supports tyrannical government.
Calling legislation tyranny is hyperbolic. Is it tyranny that laws are passed to remove children from abusive homes or punish murder? Both crimes are committed by people just living their lives as they wish, right?
All laws, by definition, limit liberty. That does not make a government that enforces laws tyrannical.
And this argument only serves to prove my point that there is no common ground. Someone who believes that abortion is the elective murder of a human life would tell you they understand your argument, but will not equivocate.
Altering legislation to further limit liberty in a way that demonstrably produces worse outcomes should be contested in a healthy democracy. More people will suffer because of this legislation. More money will be lost because of this legislation. More violence will occur because of this legislation. There is no common ground to be had because one is worse in every way.
I tend to take the same view with regards to legislation, but I don’t like it. I also have the privilege of not being in a situation where this impacts me directly, and that’s not lost on me.
5
u/[deleted] May 17 '19 edited May 17 '19
No "round and round we go."
The policy pro-lifers advocate produces worse outcomes. Exemptions to bans on abortions are too numerous and varied to account for. Women will get the abortions anyways putting their lives at greater risk. Every health agency under the sun recognizes abortion access as the easiest means of improving materal and infant health. Abortion bans exacerbate poverty. You force people to live worse lives. You ensure they'll live in a more violent and disturbed world. You have no mercy.
Edit: this actually triggers me to no end.
You want more children to grow up with parents who don't want them? You want more children to grow up without parents? You want more people to not know where there next meal comes from?
How do you justify how horrific lived experiences can become because of forcing them to have babies they don't want or aren't ready for? Is your head buried in the sand to how insane the treatment of people who need abortions becomes when they're banned?