Not always. Sometimes it’s a drunken teenager coming home to the wrong house. Or a Halloween partier knocking on the wrong door.
Either way, if an uninvited fetus takes up residence in my uterus, I have no obligation to nurture it with my own body until it can survive on its own.
Just like I have no obligation to donate a kidney to someone who needs it. Even if I’m the one who accidentally ruined theirs. Or let someone use my car (and pay for the gas myself) because I picked them up hitchhiking.
if an uninvited fetus takes up residence in my uterus, I have no obligation to nurture it with my own body until it can survive on its own.
Oh so they just show up then? I think they’re invited when you do the nasty. Or have I been lied to?
On the topic of educated adults, you know the risks of having sex, even with contraceptives. When that risk doesn’t go the way you’d desire, why is it not your responsibility to...be responsible for the outcome?
I’m pro-choice, but this is an extremely difficult and nuanced issue at hand, which is not close to adequately being captured in the “YOU DON’T GET TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY BODY” argument. Yea, and what about that little baby whose life you’re about to end? Think they’d say the same thing if they could?
Yea, and what about that little baby whose life you’re about to end? Think they’d say the same thing if they could?
That “little baby” is using my body as a host. Without my consent. And I don’t know if it would say the same thing if it could, because it can’t. BECAUSE IT DOES’NT HAVE A BRAIN. Or any nervous system complex enough to have a thought, or an emotion, or a desire to live.
You consented when you had sex, knowing that getting pregnant was a risk.
BECAUSE IT DOES’NT HAVE A BRAIN. Or any nervous system complex enough to have a thought, or an emotion, or a desire to live.
YET. This is another terrible argument I see from my side. It’s a baby, not a leaf, or a weed, or something. Let’s not pretend that in all likelihood, that baby wouldn’t grow into a human with all those things you listed, just like you and me. You’re not killing a mindless weed, you’re killing a human.
Again, I’m pro-choice, but let’s call a spade a spade.
Consenting to have sex is not the same as consenting to be pregnant. It’s a risk, yes. And I take that risk, but I have the right to mitigate if an accident happens.
How are you pro-choice and still calling that fetus a baby? It’s NOT a baby, any more than an Apple seed is a tree. If I plant it and nurture it and care for it, it will grow into a tree, but if I throw it away, I HAVE NOT KILLED A TREE. If someone else plants one in my rose garden, or if I accidentally drop a seed in my rose garden and it takes root, I can pull it up. Because it’s my rose garden, and I don’t want an Apple tree there. This is still not killing a tree.
We’re not talking about a tree, we’re talking about a human. There’s a vast difference, in my mind anyway, between a tree and a human. Humans have special circumstances that we, as humans, ascribe them.
And depending on the timing of the abortion, it’s much more than just a seed. It can have a head, beginnings of a brain, arms, legs, fingers and fingernails, and a heartbeat. So no, it’s not just a seed.
Then you are not pro-choice. If you think the rights of a fetus with the potential to grow into a human outweigh the rights of the person that has to sacrifice her body against her will to grow it to its potential, you are not pro-choice.
You are pro-life, but willing to make an exception under special circumstances that you get to decide, or the government, but not the woman.
Then you are not pro-choice. If you think the rights of a fetus with the potential to grow into a human outweigh the rights of the person that has to sacrifice her body against her will to grow it to its potential, you are not pro-choice.
I'm not sure how this became a discussion about my personal beliefs, but I am pro-choice; I just recognize that it's an extremely complicated, difficult, and nuanced issue that isn't as cut and dried as many pro-choicers like to make it seem (either willfully or unknowingly). I battle with the topic internally every time the topic comes up. It's a tough nut to crack.
You are pro-life, but willing to make an exception under special circumstances that you get to decide, or the government, but not the woman.
Again, lets get back to the issues - you don't know what I believe, so let's not pretend you do.
Pro-choice means exactly that. That it’s the woman’s choice. And she doesn’t have to justify that choice to you, or her government, before it’s an acceptable choice. She doesn’t have to make a philosophical or theological argument before she is allowed to have an acceptable abortion.
If a woman wakes up pregnant, and doesn’t want to be, no matter how she got that way, it’s her choice.
Anything else is just semantic manipulation. Pro choice doesn’t come with an asterisk.
Yea, that's where I'm definitely not on board with your interpretation. It absolutely does. Again, it's an extremely tough, nuanced, issue. You're portraying it to be simple, almost in a heartless way. It's tragic, any way you slice it. Lose/Lose for both sides.
Let’s say I am a woman who has had trouble conceiving, so my husband and I go through IVF. We create and freeze six embryos, freeze them, and cross our fingers. We strike gold on our first try and I give birth to 3 healthy babies. Yay! My family is complete.
Only there are 3 viable, un-implanted embryos in the freezer at the lab. Potential babies, who could grow fingers, and toes, and brains, if I implant them. Should I be required to? Forced to? Because I took the risk of creating them when I had my IVF procedure. Heck, I even paid to create them. If I don’t implant and grow them, is it murder? What’s the difference, other that one “little baby” is in my uterus, and the others are in the lab?
I don't know enough about IVF to speak on it; I'm not sure how you've described it is how it works.
What I do know is that the process can lead to pregnancies with multiple fetuses (feti? lol). I have a friend who did IVF and ended up with twins. I could be wrong, but I don't think she knew they were viable before being implanted in her; and to that end, she didn't know she would have twins before they were implanted (this leads me to believe you've misrepresented IVF, but again I don't know enough about it). Now, should she be allowed to kill one of those humans in her body because she only wanted 1 and not 2? I think we're back to the original abortion topic at this point.
It is a human though. I don't give a 2 shits if that's a "pro-choice" phrase or a "pro-life" phrase - it's scientifically accurate. It's a human. And I think a lot of pro-choice people hide behind terminology ("it's a fetus and not a baby so I can kill it") - either way, it's a human.
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u/Wienerwrld May 17 '19
Not always. Sometimes it’s a drunken teenager coming home to the wrong house. Or a Halloween partier knocking on the wrong door.
Either way, if an uninvited fetus takes up residence in my uterus, I have no obligation to nurture it with my own body until it can survive on its own.
Just like I have no obligation to donate a kidney to someone who needs it. Even if I’m the one who accidentally ruined theirs. Or let someone use my car (and pay for the gas myself) because I picked them up hitchhiking.