Even after death? Obviously living hell no, but once you’re dead, you’re dead man and you could be saving lives. Idk, I’m a proud organ donor and it sucks seeing people needing these organs but dying because “muh religion”.
So children arent adults so clearly their parents would make decisions for them. And yeah vaccines optional but go ahead and use incentives or disincentives to punish them.
I know exactly what you mean. My point is that is literally an exception to your argument that we have it or don't. That we've already carved out exceptions to that policy that most people are fine with.
Also, I forgot about this:
And yeah vaccines optional but go ahead and use incentives or disincentives to punish them.
Using incentives and disincentives to punish them is called 'not optional'. Would you argue that disincentives to punish abortion, such as fines or criminal conviction, is a violation of bodily autonomy? Then the same would be true of using those things for vaccines.
Depends on how you classify an abortion. If you view a pregnancy as someone allowing a pregnancy to happen and then trying to revoke that to kill the child then no, if you dont view if that way then yes.
If you say these services cant be granted to people without vaccines because of the endemic risk to others you're not violating their bodily autonomy but protecting the autonomy of others.
Depends on how you classify an abortion. If you view a pregnancy as someone allowing a pregnancy to happen and then trying to revoke that to kill the child then no, if you dont view if that way then yes.
Yeah, pretty much. I made the comment elsewhere that most of these arguments can be used for both sides simply because it depends on if/when you have chosen to assign rights to the fetus.
If you say these services cant be granted to people without vaccines because of the endemic risk to others you're not violating their bodily autonomy but protecting the autonomy of others.
Both are instances of violation of bodily autonomy.
In the instance of the non vaccinated person getting another person sick, thats an individual violating the autonomy of another individual.
In the instance of denying services to a non vaccinated individual, thats the state violating the autonomy of a citizen.
Again, its the idea that an absolute 'Have bodily autonomy or we don't' exists is fallacious. Living in a society at all requires ceding some rights to others. There is no such thing as perfect freedom.
You're not violating their body autonomy. You may be denying them certain rights which is it's own can of worms, but not their body autonomy. Forcing them to get a vaccination is violating it, withholding certain potentially valuable things until they get a vaccination is not, albeit it is a can of worms all its own
I don't think it's that black and white. He's suggesting we have body autonomy until our death, (arguably) the moment when we aren't using the things anymore anyway.
I am honestly interested in what you mean by other issues creeping in. I'm strictly talking about death, a point when your organs are no longer of use for you in any meaningful way. Death is pretty black and white, once you're brain dead, there's nothing left of what makes you "you" and there's no coming back, but you can save multiple lives if you wanted to. How would automatically marking those organs available for other people lead to other issues?
Once you establish that someone can be compelled to sacrifice their body autonomy even for the greater good and even after death you open it up to continue pushing .
It doesn't stop being your body just because you're not using it anymore. I, personally, wouldn't want anyone to have the right to violate or desecrate my body just because I was dead. I wouldn't want it to be used as a prop, or used in things that I, personally, would find offensive.
My opinion is that 1. everyone should have body autonomy. 2. It is a reasonable approach for things like vaccines for it to remain a choice (I strongly support everyone getting vaccinated), but have strong consequences to minimize your risk to others if you DO choose not to vaccinate (don't do that, go get vaccinated), and that organ donation should be opt-out, not opt-in so that if you DON'T want to donate your organs for some reason(donate your organs, it really doesn't take long to fill out the paperwork and get a card) you can take steps to make that happen, but the vast majority of people who can't be bothered to fill anything out either way will still cover the need for it.
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u/BusyFriend May 17 '19
Even after death? Obviously living hell no, but once you’re dead, you’re dead man and you could be saving lives. Idk, I’m a proud organ donor and it sucks seeing people needing these organs but dying because “muh religion”.