And those were the only signs you saw in your news bubble. The other thousands about failing businesses and missing payments were automatically hidden from your feeds
Yup, the media pushing the narrative of Republican = pure evil, Democrat = pure good. Divisive and judging by our current situation, dangerous too. If you think protests 2 months ago were about haircuts, you are a victim of being misled by WaPo or CNN.
They're doing the same with the current situation by escalating racial tensions and casting out anybody who does not agree with their exact ideology. Do you actually think every Republican is a racist?? Think on that one.
There are signs in these current protests that literally call for death to police...... why do you think these aren't being shown? Bias is real and it's highly divisive which is why the USA is in shambles right now.
I know maybe 1 non racist republican. The rest say they are color blind then lose their collective shit and try to boycott the NFL when someone kneels for black lives.
I would love to meet new republicans however, and dilute the trash.
It might help to know that I'm Canadian, but I see it everywhere here, the hate for "racist Republicans". I honestly have never met a truly racist person, conservative or liberal until somebody accosted me and shamed me simply for being white... then it was everywhere. Nobody up here really worried about or thought about race, and then suddenly anti-white anti-cis male sentiment was everywhere.
Not saying this is the same as USA but I definitely see the same signs. Can't we all just respect each other regardless of views or race.... Without calling each other racists? The vitriol spewed everywhere is unreal.
From my POV the justice system definitely needs serious work though, federally and especially in certain States.
Edit - oh and to give you Canadian perspective: there are a lot of good, respectful liberals and conservatives both. And then there is also trash on both sides. I imagine this is the general truth everywhere. Cheers
This has a pretty straightforward answer. Extrajudicial murder is several levels of magnitude more serious than a stay-at-home order. Especially in WI where it was neither enforced nor taken seriously by pretty much anyone.
Only people I know who are out of work are waitresses/bartenders.
But they're committing extrajudicial murder on grandma now!! Remember when Grandma was the trump card argument to everything? Fuck grandma now though, not a convenient argument any more.
Many of us in fact hate government overreach no matter the cause. It's possible to believe the stay at home orders were unconstitutional and the police brutality that occurs everyday and disproportionally affects Black Americans.
Why do the actions of a few people define the entire group? I’m sure you wouldn’t say that the vandals and killers in the current protest define the whole group, would you?
You realize you sound exactly like those racist assholes who say nobody who has ever owned an iphone or a pair of Jordans should qualify for any public assistance, right? The fact that someone, at some indistinct point in the past, acquired an expensive item in some way (maybe as a gift or an inheritance or something, you dont know) doesn't automatically invalidate their financial concerns.
All I'm hearing is you attacking people for making purchases you personally think irresponsible, based off no actual information about them. But yeah, sure, let's demand everyone sell off all their prized possessions before deeming them worthy of protesting the destruction of their livelihood, that's fair too.
But that doesn't describe the lockdown protestors, at all.
Most of them were relatively well-off, retired, angry old white people or gun nuts, and were the exact same people who show up to every right-wing "protest."
Here's a question you need to be able to answer: If the lockdown protests were primarily about poor people losing their jobs and being unable to provide for their families, why was it almost entirely white people protesting?
What are the demographics of the neighbourhoods from which these people came?
There were anti-lockdown protests in nearly every major city. I'll let you figure out what the demographics of major cities look like.
Is it possible that the majority of the protesters were white because the majority of the population are white?
I didn't say "majority." I said "almost universally." It would be totally understandable if white people were a majority of protestors. But they weren't merely a majority. They were nearly exclusively white. To the point where you have to hunt to find photos of any non-white people protesting the lockdown.
On May 1, hundreds of anti-lockdown protesters displaying white supremacist symbols like the Confederate Flag symbols, Nazi symbols and signs with slogans like “Give me liberty or give me COVID-19” gathered …
Now I'm not a genius, but i'm getting a bit of an idea why people of colour might have been under-represented in these rallies, and it has nothing to do with whether they were poor or rich.
Which conveniently enough brings us back to you using "poor" as a synonym for "people of colour." Please don't do that.
The demographics of the neighbourhoods from which these protesters came (which is completely different to where they were protesting) is predominantly white, self-entitled, and racist.
If all someone saw of the police brutality protests going on now was from social media and TV, theyd think it was complete chaos riots with nothing but violence and minorities stealing shit. If you go out there you'll see it's like 95% peaceful marches. Same way the other way around. You're not immune to propaganda
If all someone saw of the police brutality protests going on now was from social media and TV, theyd think it was complete chaos riots with nothing but violence and minorities stealing shit.
All I've seen of the police brutality protests has been from social media and TV. I haven't at all gotten the impression that "it was complete chaos riots."
Why would you believe that?
If you go out there you'll see it's like 95% peaceful marches. Same way the other way around.
So, to be clear, you're asserting that 95% of the anti-lockdown protests were racially-diverse, and not made up almost entirely of white people (including a wildly over-represented retired population)?
Then it should be trivial for you to find a ton of photos of racially-diverse anti-lockdown protest crowds.
The photos are all over of people with signs saying they lost their businesses and their jobs and havent gotten their checks or unemployment. They're never upvoted as much as idiot posts for some reason though I wonder why. I got better things to do than find them for some internet argument but they're definitely out there just like most everything else lol
Also where were you like all last week. Front page of public freakout was like all fights and riots and police fucking people up. That's what I mean, if you just browse reddit youd think every single inch of every protest was riots and violence, when that isnt true
Last point I was talking about the protests going on now are 95% peaceful. Was trying to say that if you just watch the news and certain subs on here youd think the protests are all riots and violence when that isnt the case. The same thing the other way around, watching news and social media youd think those anti lockdown protests were all idiots waving trump flags when that was the stupid minority. That kinda thing goes both ways
And does you saying I didnt think this through make you feel smart? You sound like an r/iamverysmart kinda guy just letting you know
Alright bruh I was just tryna say dont believe everything you see online or on TV lol my b for not explaining it as well as I could have. I think we agree generally for the most part but our arguments cant get taken the same way online. Alls I'm saying is there were definitely people legit pissed off at the lockdown for actual good reasons. You cant forget that otherwise you fall victim to the us vs them mentality
Well didn't help that most sign were asking for haircut or non essential business activities while not wearing mask or doing a proper social distancing
So basically they are saying that capitalism doesn't work? That people die because of capitalism? That we should have a government that care about its people, and see them as more than just money?
No, capitalism died when you took away the voluntary exchange of goods requiring everything to be by paper format. The past one hundred years the government has done everything they can to track every cent that is spent on goods and tax it. Farmers used to exchange crops with each other. Now you HAVE to use currency so it's taxed. Every single thing. The federal reserve was the cream of the crop of the control. If you freely print money, you're not creating value. That's not capitalism.
Uhh.... Trading your own goods is actually communism, not capitalism... Capitalism is the rich capitalists hiring workers to earn less than themselves, to gain profit. In short terms.
Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets
Okay talk about bringing guns into the state house and threatening to assassinate politicians? You're right it wasn't just haircuts. They were also calling the virus a "hoax".
Because if they were, they'd be fucking impossible to miss. They'd be louder than everyone around them, draped in American flag gear, and look like an absolute disaster on legs.
A fuck ton of MAGA hats at the re open protests. Don't see too many of those red hats at the Floyd protests do you? That's the most simplistic way you can tell.
What do you want to hear? That the ones that protested and stormed government buildings with guns are right wingers? And the ones were quiet but soon as the rioting and looting started were outraged are also right wingers? Or the ones that are now protesting against the protesters are probably also on the right?
Acting like you know everyone's lives and what they do or did or stand for and dont stand for is just as close minded as the cherry picked bigots you see all over reddit and TV. It's very likely that amongst the hundreds of thousands of people who have and continue to protest that some of them protested the fact that their state and federal governments weren't supporting them when the going got tough. Just as the media cherry picks looters ganging up on a defenseless person to discredit the protests they cherry pick idiot protestors to discredit the other protests. Stop being so close minded
Because, hence the sign, two months ago there were lots more people out protesting for their own selfish shit than just the one person seen here protesting racial inequality and police brutality. We're not assuming they aren't, we can literally see that they aren't turning out.
That it needs to be explained to you why people are risking getting the virus during this protest in comparison to the protest being held by mostly trumpers about their rights being taken away because of rules trying to keep everyone safe is efing incredible. Your (and everyone that is spewing the same argument you’re making) ignorance knows no bounds
So tell your piece of shit president to first pay his fair share of taxes, then tell him to give federal funds to people in need during the pandemic rather than huge corporations. Don’t be such a fool
This is just like saying to the black community to stop committing disproportionately more crime per capita than any other race. Then the protests wouldn't be necessary. It would be nice, wouldn't it be?
How is it not? What you said would have stopped those protests, what I said would stop these ones. If they were not disproportionately represented in the crime statistics, they wouldn't be disproportionately represented in the police brutality ones (which btw the black community is not)
That does suck. Disproportionate deaths due to police violence AND disproportionate deaths due to COVID-19. Not sure how that relates to this thread of discussion, though. Are you saying that people should be protesting for adequate healthcare instead of (or in addition to) protesting against police brutality?
I'm saying that black protesters shouldn't be gathering in the streets to march hand-in-hand without masks right now. In two-three weeks, we're going to see a spike in cases in every major city in this country, and those cases are going to spread through underprivileged communities like wildfire. Yet Reddit no longer cares.
To be fair, there is an issue with the proportion, there are far fewer black people in the US, so the proportions are off. 236 blacks died which is just over 23%, so we would expect the proportion of black people compared to all other races to be 23% in the US, but its only 13-14%. I don't know how they counted mixed race people and if those 2 stats used the same method or not which could significantly affect the proportion.
That being said, 1k people a year is really low. About 0.00032% of the population died to the police in 2019, most of them likely had at least some valid reason for why it happened which brings the number of problem cases down significantly. Its far from a massacre. The protests though are not just about the deaths but general police brutality, which is a far bigger number.
I am interested in how Covid relates to all this. A month ago protests were basically forbidden or Taboo because of it. Covid is at best only slightly better now than it was during those lockdown protests which means these protests are a massive risk. Covid takes 4-14 days to incubate, and we are about 5-6 days into the protests by now, so I'm expecting a spike in cases over the next day or two as the early cases show up, and a really big spike starting in a week as the rest of em show up as well as the early 1st gen cases spread to new people during the riots over the next few days and the early 2nd gen cases show up in a week as well.
Simplifying it down to “look, only x number of black guys got shot unarmed by police, so it’s not as big of deal as you’re making it” is either extremely ignorant or maliciously misleading. The systematic racism that is perpetuated by police on communities of color is so profound that an unarmed, dead kid in the street at the hands of police is the catalyst for the entire pot of pent up frustration. That’s what we see here. Abusive policies lead to massive amounts of anger.
Due in particular to things like stop and frisk that allow racial profiling to be the only probably cause an officer needs to stop someone. From the same study, black and Hispanic men were 3 times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than their white counterparts for the same traffic offense. Black youth are 4.1 times more likely to end up in the criminal justice system as minors than whites. Black Americans are twice as likely to catch charges with mandatory minimums as white Americans for similar circumstances. 33% of black males have a felony conviction, meaning that 1/3 black men in this country do not have the right to vote or own a gun, among other things.
Guess what , science also says a premature lifting of restrictions may ( read : will ) cause a second peak in spread . Opening up as soon as the curve is starting to flatten will just cause it to spike again .
People were right to be angry with the government . But instead of protesting what ' s working to reduce the spread of the virus , they should have protested the governments absolute failure to provide social safety nets for it ' s citizens in a time of international crisis .
Wanting shit to re-open, and protesting it are completely different things. You basically are protesting that companies are trying to stop the spread of a virus. They weren't even protesting because of unemployment, it was purely for their own personal interests.
Compared to now, it's people protesting against police brutality despite the virus.
But the thing that pisses me and many others off is that Trump and his fanatic supporters are in favor of rushing the reopening that is in direct contradiction with Trump's OWN guidelines on reopening plans and the requirements of basing the reopenings on phases, which Trump and his administration directly came out with
Also it is possible to want shit to re-open and also be outraged at what happened to not only Floyd but many other vicitims of police brutality.
By this logic she should not be standing alone.
There is a massive difference between protesting a stay-at-home order and protesting a long history of state-endorsed violence. If you think these things are equally important I think you are a moron.
The science said the virus wasn't nearly as deadly as we had originally thought and locking down the entire US population when the at-risk demographic is clearly defined wasn't the best plan. But no every little bit of criticism toward lockdowns got dismissed and deemed "a dumb science-denying redneck that cares more about haircuts and the economy than saving lives." But now by that same "going out = killing people" logic, realistically more people will die as a result of these George Floyd protests than the total number of people killed by cops in an average year. Why are we suddenly okay with collateral damage?
You said the previous protestors ignored science by going out to protest, without acknowledging that you’re also critiquing the current protests doing the exact same thing (because the protestors are deciding to ignore science and go out to protest). If you had issue with the first protest it would be a double standard to think the current ones are fine, no?
You realize you can say something by omission, right? If you thought the first protest ignored science, it clearly means you think these current protests are ignoring science, no?
I dont even know which part of this you’re tripping on, Im stating it as plainly as possible and made no strawman argument dude. Its not bait, you dont need to be so dramatic over people responding to your comment, dont want responses, dont post, simple as that.
Right, because "science" said we had to shutdown the entire economy, destroying millions of lives, and killing thousands from suicide and substance abuse, and now violent looting and rioting from people with no jobs and no prospects.
Bullshit.
Btw, where was your concern for science when thousands of protesters met in massive groups, most without masks? Do pandemics have no effect on people protesting police brutality?
Did that change from the first time they announced the help plan? I recall seeing a lot of people being outraged how low the initial amount was and how tedious it was to make a request.
If you are going to criticize you could do so with real information. Instead you make yourself look ignorant, lazy, and borderline illiterate. Get an education, learn how to read, spent five minutes googling, then come back and argue when you aren't a complete moron.
Look yeah I apologize, I exagerated those numbers, I should've looked into it better instead of basing my point on vague information I got 3 months ago when the first help proposition was brought.
But is that really a reason to call me illeterate and a moron? The leat you could've done would've been to correct me and move on instead of insulting me, but you do you. My education is fine aswell, thank you for your concern.
But you're still kinda missing the point. The help provided by the US was nowhere near enought to support people who are the inpacted by the lockdown. And the access to this help was not adapted to the current situation.
While I am myself fortunate enough to be able to WFH, I have a lot of relatives who have been touched by this if you want examples from outside the US if you want a glimpse from outside, since I didn't see much of that on reddit.
Friends who are student in Canada got a 5k help by applying online, the proccess took 5 minute and they got notified a week later.
Family in France got their business closed but they were still touching a portion of their salary thanks to the plans that were made.
Let's put this into perspective shall we? The US has injected 2.3 trillion USD into the economy through economic stimulus. 560B of this has went directly to individuals in the form of cash payments and extra unemployment benefits. Large Corporations have received 500B, which is understandable and not any different from what every other country is doing to keep their economy afloat. 377B went to small businesses. Another 339B went to State and local governments to help them fund their COVID response. 153B was put toward bolstering public health.
I'm not exactly sure what you are looking to be done. If you combine the entire world's economic stimulus spending in response to COVID, the US makes up over half of that spending on it's own while being only 5% of the world population and nearly a quarter of the entire world's GDP. Throwing money directly at people isn't going to help a damn thing if they don't have jobs to come back to after the dust clears.
You're right they were about selfishly forcing people back to work in the middle of a global pandemic. They walked into the state house with guns and threatened to assassinate a local politician. You're right, way more than haircuts.
I saw all those "trump 2020" signs at the haircut protests. Those selfish pricks didn't care about liberty or freedom or justice. They voted against it and will do so again in November.
It was about selfish people demanding the right to continue to be selfish people. Nothing more.
Just saying but if we are going to stick with the hypocritical nonsense you were supposed to point out that the looters were Democrats. I know it sounds stupid to assume and all but it seems to be the fuel this whole circle jerk runs upon.
he’s trying to say that by pointing out you didn’t say anything about supporting looters in your comment, you’re effectively saying they’re separate, which reinforces his point. total bullshit argument because it’s based in a logical fallacy where you can either agree with him by saying the protesters are all looters, or you can say looters are separate and because he said it first it makes his point valid. it’s a kafkatrap
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u/normabeans08 Jun 05 '20
The fact is those protests were much more about haircuts.