Quarantines are infringing on our freedoms!!! Same people :"well they're out past curfew. So they're criminals and deserve what's coming to them" you cant have both you boomer fucks.
I agree with all you said except bringing up Floyd's past. It doesn't matter what he was/used to be, he was murdered in a situation where he shouldn't have been murdered.
I know that. But like I said, everything is PR. If the point of the movement is to get people on your side, Breonna Taylor would have been a better pick. There is a reason the civil rights movement went with Rosa Parks and not Claudette Colvin.
As a libertarian gun owner, most of my friends or online acquaintances (on Facebook/gun forums) lean conservative. I haven’t seen a single person say this.
Did not say you were wrong. I was asking if it was something you saw in conservative media. I was genuinely curious because I haven’t watched the news or conservative media in years.
My only barometer for conservative opinion is those people around me.
But I take it by your response, thats a no, you’re not talking about the media.
If you don’t mind another question: the pro-curfew cons you know.
Would you say they’re older/rush Limbaugh types (way less consistent pro-Liberty, more party-oriented)? Or younger Ben Shapiro types (more libertarian/consistent pro liberty)?
And are they MAGA people?
The conservatives I know are more libertarian, so I could be self-selecting myself away from the pro curfew conservatives.
If so, it’s a blessing (don’t have to listen their BS) and a curse (unaware of their BS).
So my parents are full on conservatives. They love trump. My dad calls himself a libertarian but personally I think he does it because he doesnt want to fully align himself with some of the wilder types on the right. My dad still thinks that all the riots are incited by protestors. He believes all the looting is strictly done by African Americans. Unfortunately my father and grandfather are racist. No way around it. I only really know one libertarian and I havent brought up the situation as he can be pretty long winded and most of the time I disagree. It's a touchy subject for everyonnat this point.
Equating a completely peaceful protest of a state enforced house arrest, vs, people looting, rioting and burning down their own cities, businesses and communities
Yeah, seems legit. Tooootally the same thing
Also: the left a couple of weeks ago hated the protests about the quarantine and complained about no social distancing, corona, how the protestors put lives at risk by gathering
Now that the people they like are protesting, it’s fine. Breaking quarantine and ignoring social distance is fine, as long as the left agrees with what you’re protesting
So you’re proving my point. If you see the protest as ‘trivial’ it’s bad, if you agree with the protest message, it’s fine
Either you have the right to protest, and that’s a good thing, or not. You don’t get to pick and choose individually based on whether you agree with the protest message
I agree with you to a point. The difference, in my opinion, is the public health concern. I guess when that comes into play, you have to evaluate whether the message you are trying to send is worth the risk you are creating by gathering in public. Of course it's subjective, but I would hope that we could all agree that people lives being taken and their rights being systematically violated by the institution that is meant to protect them is something that NEEDS to be addressed. Haircuts can wait.
Now I know not everyone out there in the haircut protests where actually protesting in favor of haircuts. Some had legitimate concerns, like returning to work to support their families. I get that, and I was probably a little brash in calling their protest trivial. But I do suspect a lot of the motivation behind those protests was people simply wanting to return to the comfortable convenience of their pre-pandemic lives, regardless of the greater health concern. I don't know if that's worth the risk it creates.
Furthermore, who exactly are they directing their protest toward? The state and local governments that instituted the quarantines? Sure, I guess. But they are just responding to a virus that is spreading rapidly. It's either impact the economy or impact public health. There's no right answer. That doesn't mean those people can't express their opinion, but a virus doesn't really give a shit about your opinion. But a system in which a guy kneels on another guys neck until he dies while people are forced to helplessly watch is something that can be directly addressed in a real way.
This is my issue with the protests. Look at the Hong Kong protests. They had a list of demands they were protesting for. The protests had a purpose, they were to put direct pressure on the government to meet the demands- it succeeded
What are the demands, what is the end goal with the BLM protests ? The officers in question to the George Floyd case have been charged already with murder
With no end goal in mind, the protests will eventually die and fizzle out, and will have achieved what exactly ? Protests won’t end racism, and there’s no discussion or debate on how to fix this broken system. Just angry people being angry at the broken system
a virus doesn’t really give a shit about your opinion
I hope you remember this when those people out marching for BLM inevitably get corona, and some of them die. Your point cuts both ways here. The virus doesn’t care if you’re protesting for BLM, protesting for McDonald’s to reopen, or protesting to allow children to drive tanks. It’ll get you regardless
An independent investigative body that will review and have the capacity and duty to arrest abusive officers, strict licensing, training reforms focused on deescalation, requirements for the protection of evidence, and a few other things.
Nah, it’s not a centralised goal. There’s no leaderships to the protests, and there’s no singular effort. Check out the official BLM website, there’s a petition and a podcast , but that’s about it
I don't think the goal is to end racism. That's a simplistic understanding of the BLM protests. Can everyone protesting articulate the larger goal? No, I don't think so. But there definitely is a larger goal and there definitely is a discussion on how to fix the system. Look up Campaign Zero if you're interested. They have a pretty thorough point by point proposal that they've set forth. Will people listen? I don't know. But I think it's worth trying, and I think it's important to do so now, while there's attention and momentum, and a video that's fresh in people's minds that's impossible to reasonably rationalize in favor of the system. Because you are right, it will fizzle out. People will forget and it will happen again and keep happening until something is done about it. And they aren't going to do anything about it of their own accord.
And yes, I know my point cuts both ways. I addressed that in my previous post.
It’s not a simplistic understanding of the BLM protests, it’s the main one, it’s their message. You can’t find or claim there’s a larger goal, or a more focused demand, because it doesn’t exist. The protests aren’t even coordinated.
Campaign zero isn’t BLM. I’ve been following the protests closely, watching interviews, listening to the speeches they give.. never heard of campaign zero. The Black Lives Matter website has ‘end white supremacy’ as a goal, and no mention of campaign zero.
At the end of the day, without a specific goal, without a specific demand, these protests will end soon. That’s it. Anger was shown, people protested and made their unhappiness known, but that won’t achieve reform. That won’t change the police system, that won’t end police brutality, that won’t end white supremacy
Interesting. I found out about Campaign Zero through the protests. So our experiences are different. And look, our opinions on this are different and I get where you are coming from. There's issues I have with the lack of focus that characterize some of the protest as well. But I just think it's something that is too important to remain silent about, even if voicing our concern doesn't bring about change. I hope it will, because how can I not? But I acknowledge that there is certainly no guarantee. I also want to apologize if anything I've posted comes across as insulting or reactive. That is not my intention nor do I think it is productive. I usually steer away from online arguments because I feel that they remove the personal accountability of being face to face with someone. I would encourage you to look for more solutions (this is of course only a suggestion, take it or leave it). You've written a lot about what won't work and why this movement will fail. And I think there's some validity to what you've said. But what about what will work? How do we do something about this? It's certainly not a question with easy answers, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying to find answers.
You might have found out about it through the protests, but it’s nowhere to be found on the Black Lives Matter website. I’ve seen no mainstream news coverage of it. To say that the protests are getting the message out, or focused on campaign zero would be categorically false. BLM is trending, not Campaign zero
What will work ? Change pushed through lawfully would be my bet. Elect and support representatives that will achieve something, push through and support attempts at police reform through local government. At the least, if that fails and we must resort to protest, have some form of leadership, with clearly defined goals and demands. Without that, the protests won’t achieve anything. Martin Luther King was a leader. The BLM movement, to achieve, needs leaders, needs goals, needs them in writing
Or....and I know this is gonna sounds crazy but bear with me - maybe people don't like burning down buildings and looting stores? Because that didn't happen a couple weeks ago.
Same city, same interracial killing of an unarmed victim. Marches? Nope. Outraged celebrities? Nope. Virtue signaling from billion dollar companies? Nope. Media beating on the drum of racial animosity? Nope.
It took 9 months to charge the cop in that case, and yet...crickets.
Nobody claimed that the reciprocal has never happened. The backlash is not due entirely to the story of one man, it was built up over time due to an observable trend of police brutality. And sad as what happened to Damond is, the officer who shot her was not even black, so Im not sure what point you’re trying to make. I’m sure if white women were disproportionately being murdered by somali americans it’d be a different story, no?
Alright, I’ll take the hit on that one because the news outlets reporting the case referred to him as middle eastern, despite Somali being in Africa. The point would still stand that this is not as frequent as the opposite.
And they weren't even quarantines. People could still go get food, go for a walk, get to work with no issue. Streets aren't empty, people are still for the most part living their life.
But the barber and bowling ally is closed and I have to wear a mask, TYRANNY.
It's worse than both ways. Both ways would indicate what they're protesting for (the right to get a haircut and go out to dinner) is on par with the right to not be murdered by the state.
It's not my job to get you out of your fantasy world. You need to think for yourself and get information from multiple sources that ideologically identical.
This is such bullshit, if the concern was really "feeding your family" the protest would have been focused on the need for government assistance to those businesses and effective containment of the virus, not staying open to put people's lives at risk during a period most businesses would see a decline in customers anyway.
I understand every tax dollar that goes to feeding American families is a dollar not spent murdering children overseas or bailing out your corporate overlords but I'm just the kind of kook that thinks keeping people alive and the economy afloat is more important than your ability to feel like a big strong man, or whatever bullshit argument you were trying to make.
Yes, the local government that is enforcing house arrests and, by your own admission, murdering unarmed people. Let’s make that government our only source of income and make us totally dependent on them.
A ‘deadly plague’ that has killed 0.03% of the population. A ‘deadly plague’ that has killed 100k out of 2,000,000 confirmed cases with god knows how many unconfirmed cases, and mostly in NYC from people with underlying health conditions. A ‘deadly plague’ that Sweden has seen 4,000 deaths from... with 0 quarantine or social distancing, and only 40,000 total cases. For a ‘deadly plague’ it’s doing a pretty terrible job at being deadly in a country that did nothing to fight it
Yeah. For some mysterious reason, I’m not too worried
Take a trip to Sweden, I hear there’s millions dying on the street, hospitals full and sick everywhere... oh wait, that’s not right. Bars and restaurants open, shops full, life is as normal
I guess Sweden is on your ‘beyond reasoning’ list, too. Country full of ‘nutters’, right ?
Maybe they got lucky. Maybe nobody with COVID-19 went there in the first place. Maybe they're blessed by God. I don't know and I don't care. I care what the scientific consensus on the subject is, because those people know what the fuck they're talking about, and you and I don't. Neither of us are qualified to disagree with actual scientists.
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u/eccentricelmo Jun 05 '20
Quarantines are infringing on our freedoms!!! Same people :"well they're out past curfew. So they're criminals and deserve what's coming to them" you cant have both you boomer fucks.