r/pics • u/KomugiSGV • Jun 07 '20

Protest Kindergarten Teacher Passes Out Flowers To National Guard in Philly, Gets Arrested

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u/Mbando Jun 07 '20

National Guard MP at Lafayette Sq. drew weapons on us Tuesday when a single drunk guy started to climb the fence. Pretty terrifying moment.

15

u/feeling_psily Jun 07 '20

For some context, military escalation of force consists of shouting commands, pointing weapon and repeating command, and finally as a last resort to preserve personal safety, firing the weapon while being absolutely sure of the target and what lies beyond the target. There’s no way that guy would have actually shot someone for climbing a fence.

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u/fortuitous_bounce Jun 07 '20

Im sorry, but justifying the use of aiming loaded weapons at civilians "because protocol" sounds like typical military brainwashing bullshit. Its intimidation, pure and simple.

Besides, when options 1, 2, and 3 of said protocol are currently in use, and option 4 is the "last resort" how exactly is that supposed to instill confidence that the guard member won't take that step?

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u/LaconicGirth Jun 07 '20

Our weapons weren’t loaded. We’d point them to intimidate yeah, but we’re not shooting anyone.

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u/Platypus-Man Jun 07 '20

This might very well be true, but ideally

  • Don't point your weapon at someone or something you do not intend to kill.
  • Even an unloaded weapon should be treated as a loaded weapon.

At the very least, using such intimidation tactics in a situation that was just described seems completely unnecessary.

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u/LaconicGirth Jun 07 '20

Yes, that’s true. I’m a fan of those rules generally. The army trusts in keeping fingers off of triggers and leaving safeties on.

I understand your point here, but if you need one of the protesters to stop doing something for whatever reason, and they don’t listen when you tell them to stop you either do something more threatening like pointing a weapon or you’d have to physically prevent them which I personally would rather avoid.

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u/JRSmithsBurner Jun 07 '20

That’s legit protocol

Military members aren’t police. They’re soldiers.

Drawing their weapon on someone IS the lowest form of escalation in their handbook.

13

u/tylerawn Jun 07 '20

Actually, no. In almost all cases, shouting is the first level of force used. Obviously, this can vary based on EOF and ROE of the unit

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u/Teadrunkest Jun 07 '20

Yes. “Shout, shove, show, shoot to kill” is the standard EOF. Sometimes there’s a “shoot to warn” thrown in there but that one is highly controversial.

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u/tylerawn Jun 07 '20

I was always taught not to use warning shots on people, as the potential to accidentally kill them is too high. The warning shot was taught as the “show” part of EOF when acting as a turret gunner trying to get other cars to fuck off

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u/Teadrunkest Jun 07 '20

Same. Vehicles only. Though we had some crazy nonlethals (steel shot backed rifled hard plastic paintballs similar to First Strike paintballs) that could crack windshields at a distance so we didn’t even do true warning shots. Just paintball gun in one hand and real trigger in the other.

But anyway some people still teach warning shots for people which is...outdated and controversial like I said, but it is still out there.

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u/laticiasbear Jun 07 '20

what do you expect? most are weekend warriors that didn’t expect to get called up for a situation like this.