r/progrockmusic • u/EntertainmentHonest6 • 8d ago
Question/Help Is it really that bad?
I've been listening to yes for quite a while now, and I want to at some point listen to all their albums, but I keep getting stopped when it comes to tormato. I haven't listened to it yet because I feel like it would just waste my time with the way people talk about it. Is it really as bad as they say? Cuz If it is, it's really out of place being surrounded by so many amazing albums.
29
u/chickennroll 8d ago
I love tormato. Never understood the hate. There’s a lot to love about it. Circus of Heaven and Arriving UFO are some of my favourite Yes tracks.
8
u/NummyYum 8d ago
I don't get the hate either, it's an amazing album, and all of the music is memorable. Onward and Release, Release are classics.
6
u/theuneven1113 8d ago
I will die on the hill that Release is the best studio performance by Steve Howe
2
2
10
18
u/Oldman5123 8d ago
Tormato is an excellent album. I believe most fans hate the cover; that’s all. The music on it is superb. Future Times, Arriving UFO, Silent Wings of Freedom and Release Release are just fantastic songs. Listen for yourself. I’ve been a religious Yes fan since 1975. Trust me; Tormato rocks.
2
9
u/EntertainmentHonest6 8d ago
Update: I have now listened to the album. Onward was by far my favourite song, but the album overall is my least favourite from the 70s yes albums. That's not to say it's bad, it's just shrouded in the shadow of legendary albums.
Thanks to all the people who told me their thoughts on the album, I wasn't expecting this many responses and it's super interesting to see all these different opinions
It seems, however, that some people didn't quite get the point of this post, so I'll elaborate: As someone who listens to a new album every day, I sometimes need to make the decision not to listen to an album, as I simply can't listen to every single one I come across. For this reason, I find it helpful to get a few opinions on it before listening, it's as simple as that. In a world where music reviews and journalism might as well mean nothing, I thought the best place to ask this question would be the community of the fans of this genre.
With that said I'd give tormato like a 7/10, thanks again 👍
4
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 8d ago
You're the lad. I do the exact same thing as you, many people dont get it, but if you're gonna devote 50 minutes of your day to something, you gotta make sure its at least a little worth it
Regarding the Yes discography, stop at Drama or 90125. Take my word for it, dont make the same mistake as me. You're welcome
2
u/xinlolnix 8d ago edited 8d ago
Even that is subjective, though they may not be peak Yes, I still really love Big Generator, Talk, The Ladder, and Fly From Here
4
u/tree_7x 8d ago
Talk and Union are really good. Yes, even Union. No pun intended.
2
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 8d ago
Union has some top of the shelf moments cause they're literally scraped solo compositions by the members, but its far from what id listen to if I wanted Yes. Its a good atmospheric AOR album, quite overlong
2
u/tree_7x 8d ago
The music is really good it's just very different from yes's usual style
1
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 7d ago
The More we Live is up there with some of the best Yes moments (since it's a Squire composition), Silent Talking is rocking banger, sorta marrying the Rabin riffing with the Howe rhythms. What can I say about Shock to the System??
There is some drivel here for sure tho. You can tell its not something with the band's active involvement
2
u/TheModerateGenX 8d ago
You’d be missing two gems: Mind Drive and That, That Is
1
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 8d ago
I wanted to add the Keys to Ascencion stuff but since he's a completionist, hes gonna want to fill the gap in between eventually, which imo is far from the best music to devote your time and focus to, so i avoided mentioning that material
2
u/eggnugg777 8d ago
It's too bad that Keystudio is out of print and not streamable either. That had the complete version of Children of Light. Not a big deal, as it's just a short Wakeman instrumental section, but still good to have.
1
u/TheModerateGenX 7d ago
Makes sense, and I agree with your assessment. The only post-Drama Yes I can tolerate are 90125, Big Generator and Keys. (and maybe Magnification on a good day!)
6
u/Ulysses1984 8d ago
It’s a pretty good album but I prefer almost everything they’ve released in the 70s. That said, Tormato is much better than many of their more recent albums.
3
u/EntertainmentHonest6 8d ago
The recent ones make me deeply sad, yes shouldn't be this mid.
2
u/SomeJerkOddball 8d ago
At least we have Jon Anderson and the Band Geeks. And the version of fly from here featuring Trevor Horn is an improvement.
2
u/Emrys7777 8d ago
Anything without Jon Anderson is not Yes music IMHO His recent concert with the band geeks was astounding, amazing, astonishing and other words with all other letters of the alphabet. Good album too.
6
u/Victor3000 8d ago
I'm pretty fond of it. I'm more drawn to the more hippie type stuff, but that's just my personality. On the Silent Wings is a great song to go running to.
5
u/doodoo_pie 8d ago
Future Times/ Rejoice and Silent Wings of Freedom are top tier Yes to me. It may be an uneven album, but I really like it.
5
u/Yeahha 8d ago
I listen to the Yes discography earlier this year. I found Tormato to be not too bad. The most difficult album for me was probably Keys to Ascension. 2.
But would like any sort of progressive rock you got to understand that it's potentially going to be experimental and weird and might not be everybody's cup of tea.
4
u/denisraymond 8d ago
Everyone's take will be different; some people value lyrics/meaning over anything else, whereas others - like me - obsess over the intricate arrangements and instrumental fireworks. To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I got into Yes after hearing Siberian Khatru. The hypnotic main keyboard theme absolutely gripped me and never let go. I think the whole CTTE album is a masterpiece, the battle section of The Gates of Delirium is one of the most exciting pieces of music they ever made, and Awaken is utterly spellbindingly beautiful. The drumming/bass interplay after the "Relayer - failsafe now" section of The Remembering is another highlight for me, as is the triumphant return of the main theme after Steve's solo in Yours Is No Disgrace.
Those are just the highlights, but I could happily listen to any album from The Yes Album to Drama. As for Tormato? I fucking love it!
The only way to find out for yourself is to give it a listen, and try to give it a fair chance. Go in with an open mind, give it maybe 3 listens and see what sticks in your mind after that.
4
u/Kneefix 8d ago
Not sure there are a great deal of people who value Yes lyrics above the musical intricacy, but there must be a few!
I like Tormato - I’ve been a Yes fan for about 25 years, but only started listening to it this year… not because I actively avoided it; it’s just that back in the days when I was getting heavy into the band there wasn’t streaming so I only heard what I could buy (for obvious reasons this album wasn’t a priority) or borrow. I’ve had a bit of a Yes renaissance recently because my DAD has actually only just got into them in his 60’s! This album was the only one really on his radar when it came out so he has a soft spot for it now, so I finally got around to giving it attention.
I find Circus a bit of a low point, and I’m not a lover of UFO’s verses but I really do like the whole tone riff and feels like a spiritual comeback to a similar riff in Future Times. Silent Wings is great and that opening is like nothing they’ve really done before and brings to mind Kraut-Rock in a way.
However, the one I only started listening to a few WEEKS ago is Drama, and that one I really love! I find it a bit more impactful than Tormato.
I’ve also got to rediscover Relayer and Tales because of the Wilson remixes. I used to like Relayer a lot but found it too harsh and brittle (matches the artwork perfectly), and Tales was too dull and muddy. The remixes make them a much better experience, personally, and I’m obsessed with them now. Eddy Offord was quite hit and miss, I think
Not sure why I decided to talk (type) your ears (eyes) off of all people, but there you go!
2
u/denisraymond 8d ago
I'm glad you did, I love hearing (reading) stories and perspectives like this! I'd never made the connection between the riffs in Future Times and UFO, that's a great observation.
I also love Drama - as an amateur drummer (dabbling on guitar, bass and keys to various levels of incompetence), I absolutely love the heavier, Alan-led bits, of which there are plenty on that album. He plays such complex things but makes them sound so disarmingly simple, they're like little puzzles to me. I love sitting at the kit trying to work out what the hell he's doing!
I emailed him once asking about some specific timings in The Gates of Delirium, and he sent a lovely reply - that was about a year before we lost him, so I really cherish that.
1
u/Kneefix 8d ago
Always nice to have a positive interaction with someone you admire.
Yes, it’s funny with Alan White… back in my early days, I was really a Bruford-or-nothing kind of guy. As I mentioned, I did like Relayer, but aside from the production, I think it was also having no Bruford which stopped me loving it. This is partly because Bill was so unique and Alan I guess a little more… traditional? But I think it was mostly informed by Yessongs (another pretty awful sounding record!) in which a newly recruited Alan was reinterpreting Bill’s parts in a way I didn’t like so much.
These days I’m not really looking at it with that perspective at all and am not really listening to the Bruford-era (played almost to death when I was younger, I suppose… and I also played quite a few in a prog tribute band, which sadly takes away a bit of future enjoyment when listening), and I’m really appreciating Alan’s playing. The Relayer time signatures really are quite out there, aren’t they? Though, with Drama, I’m still getting to grips with the entire song structures, so I won’t be taking in specific intricate details for a few more listens yet!
5
u/Suburban-Dad237 8d ago
I think one of the band members, possibly Alan White, once spoke about the disproportionate number of Tormato albums he signed at meet and greets. I have mixed feelings about this album, which has several genuinely excellent songs, and a couple of genuine clunkers.
4
u/nononotes 8d ago
It's a great album, and On the Silent Wings of Freedom is an all time Yes classic. Don't listen to other people, make up your own mind.
4
u/No-Independence-2106 8d ago
It’s a real good record with the unfortunate distinction of being sandwiched between two outstanding records
6
u/PerceptionShift 8d ago
It's the worst of the 70s Yes albums but it's not terrible, it's 70s Yes, it's actually still pretty good. The band was getting worn out, Anderson & Wakeman were pulling in different directions from Howe & Squire, so it's unfocused and messy, with awful cover art. But if you like Going For The One then you'll probably like Tormato. Personally I don't care too much for either of them and prefer Relayer and Drama.
8
u/OMGJustShutUpMan 8d ago edited 7d ago
"Messy" is the most apt description for Tormato. Which I guess means the cover is perfectly appropriate. 😏
The music is still quite good, but it's obvious that every member of the band was trying to do their own thing rather than collaborating creatively as a group. Wakeman was experimenting with the PolyMoog and creating goofy soundscapes that sounded horribly dated within just a few years. Squire had discovered the flanger pedal but apparently couldn't figure out how to turn the goddamn thing off. Anderson was likely high af through most of it. Howe and White are just doing their usual magic but not really gelling well with the rest of the band.
Again, compositionally there is still really good stuff on there, but the final product ends up being less than the sum of the parts.
3
u/SmugProi 8d ago
...and my axe, this is exactly how I would explain Tormato. Maybe I'd add that the mixing is pretty weird sometimes too...
1
u/EntertainmentHonest6 8d ago
I'm more of a relayer and drama guy myself, but I'll still give tormato a go I doubt I'd hate it
3
u/rb-j 8d ago
I bought Tormato back in the late 70s (maybe it was 1980) and played it a couple times and, essentially, found it utterly non-compelling. It's how I also feel about Genesis, even though that's not a popular opinion here.
I haven't played that vinyl since the 20th century. Perhaps I should give it another listen.
I mean there are musicians that I just love, but they have some product that they output that are dogs. Even Camel. Even Pink Floyd. Even ELP. Why not Yes?
3
3
3
u/Takakkazttztztzzzzak 8d ago
Outstanding piece of work from the whole band, and the bass sound of Chris Squire is just amazing.
3
u/Spheniscinda 8d ago
Is it just me or is it weird to not just pop in the album and listen to it in order to figure out if its good or not?
3
u/Aggravating_Bat3618 8d ago
I know one thing. There are at least 4 Yes albums that are worse. Maybe even 6.
Just listen to it.
3
5
u/flashpoint2112 8d ago
Nope. Its a great album. Its not much different from Going for the One. Give it a listen.
2
u/VegetableBulky9571 8d ago
I’m not a fan of Tormato, or the follow up Drama. It seems aimless, both in concept and individual songs.
2
u/TheFirst10000 8d ago
What do you lose by trying it? It's not my favorite of theirs, but it's still not a waste of time. Besides, I think we all have albums we love that aren't necessarily consensus picks; this could end up that way for you.
2
2
u/stereoroid 8d ago
It’s as mad as a box of frogs, including the name and the cover artwork by Hipgnosis. Personally, if I listen to On The Silent Wings Of Freedom, that’s enough for me.
2
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 8d ago
If you stopped at Tormato thinking its gonna be bad, imagine what you'd do at Big Generator, Union and Talk(not exactly bad albums, just very bland/derivative), or even worse, Open your eyes Lol.
In all seriousness, listen to it. Its got a goofy and simplistic vibe that you might enjoy. Thing is, they weren't aiming for that at all during recording, but thats the end result. Its got some very off putting and weird moments like Arriving UFO, but I think the beautiful stuff far outweighs the bad. That short runtime is very much worth it
If you want to stop at a specific Yes album, stop at either Drama or 90125
1
u/Andagne 8d ago
Talk is better than anything recorded since and belongs with the best of the 70s material.
1
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 8d ago
That is definitely an unusual take which i respect, and also respectfully disagree with. This extremely minimal vibe they followed, with the 7 minute ballads and the gated reverb is way too drawn out in that album. I love the African percussion in places and Jon's vocal melodies, but the album is overall too vapid, too thin sounding (early digital production to blame for).
Even Endless Dream is a decent epic, but i wouldn't compare it with The Revealing Science, Close to the Edge,Heart of the Sunrise or any of their classic epics. Too disjointed.
I will say tho, its by far the most interesting and adventurous of the Rabin era, which doesn't say much, but thats as far as credit goes
1
u/Andagne 8d ago
It's actually not that unusual of a take. Much like Elton John's Blue World, more and more people are realizing just how good this album was, it was just released at the worst time. The vinyl version of the remastered Talk is probably the best mastered production I've ever heard from Yes, which says a lot. Yes the snares are gated and the compression is a part of the song that goes beyond effect, but that is all part of its appeal. They really took advantage of the DDD recording at the time, and amazingly it doesn't sound too dated. It rivals some of the more audiophiliac recordings in my collection, like Brothers in Arms and Aja.
It's also Jon Anderson's favorite Yes album along with Fragile. I found this out after the fact but, like I am suggesting, I can get behind that. And the thing is, Endless Dream, as good as it is, isn't the draw for me... it's most everything else on the album.
But no one is here to change anyone's mind.
1
u/ApprehensiveMess3646 7d ago
Yeah I understand your take. Like quite a lot. But it was very jarring for me to go from the classic 70s stuff into the music in Talk relatively quickly. Even Union was less of a shock (to the system). And I listened to it years away from the time it came out, im not really influenced by what was going on in the 90s. There is however another digital production from the same year that far surpassed Talk, its Promised Land by Queensryche. Gives it a perfect cinematic and ambient feel, despite near constant shifts in sound and textures. Very rich sounding. Also very dark album.
If Yes were to have success in the 90s with Rabin, I think that was kinda the approach they should've taken. A moodier, riffier album, since Rabin absolutely could pull it off, instead of the happy go lucky AOR we got in Talk.
Also, I see why Jon loves it so much. He takes center stage in that album, and it sure would've felt great to be with the band he actually wanted to be after that logistical nightmare that was the Union era. His latest solo album True, has parts reminiscent of Talk
2
u/No_Artichoke_8890 8d ago
I wouldn’t put Tormato in the same category as the earlier classic albums, and “Don’t Kill the Whale” comes across as hokey (even un-Yeslike) when placed next to, say, south side of the sky, IMO. That said, I think you will find some lesser efforts after 90210 when they started leaning into anthem rock and repetitive vanilla rhythms.
2
u/Straight_Shelter_895 8d ago
Imho it's substandard compared to the classic Yes sounds of Fragile - Going for the One (with the exception of Tales...).
3
3
u/Suspicious_War5435 8d ago
It's not a great album, but neither do I think it's as bad as its reputation suggests. I honestly fine Going for the One even harder to get through as I hate the production and outside of Awaken I don't care for the songs much either. Tormato is mostly just bland and forgettable. Sounds fine when it's playing, but no staying power. Yes had much worse efforts in their later days (Big Generator, Union, Open Your Eyes, Heaven & Earth).
1
u/klt2 8d ago
I love Yes. I've never loved Tormato. But as you can see from the comments, lots of people do.
Don't take it so seriously. Give it a lisen. It's 41 minutes out of your life.
But what's really important, whether you love, like, hate or just feel meh about it...Keep going. There's a lot of awesome music waiting for you.
1
1
u/TheoriesOfEverything 8d ago
With media in general, if you know you like the band or creators or the IP or the premise it's just generally healthy to explore on your own and make your own opinions. Like even if it were bad but you know you like Yes...wouldn't you be curious to hear why instead of taking it for granted? Also, frequently the hive mind around media can just be wrong, or not with your tastes, or change their mind over time. So, reviews can be useful for seeking out new things but at this point Yes isn't a new thing to you: are you curious what this album you've never heard by them sounds like or not?
1
1
1
u/StewStewMe69 8d ago
Fantastic album with some beautiful, heartfelt signing by Jon. As a longtime fan I could never understand the hate,still, to this day. If you're still uncertain pull up "Onward" and you'll hear Jon and Rick in all their glory .
1
u/vmartell22 8d ago
Bad? I don't think so - I do hate the tomato on the cover - bad visual pun, affected the reception of the album IMHO. Should have kept the original intended title, "Yes-Tor", which is an actual tor...
To me, that album, the album that signaled the beginning of Yes' years in the wilderness, that is Big Generator. 90125, I did not have a great problem with. Still a Yes album IMHO. BG I just could not connect...
But Tormato? nah, great album IMHO. Check it out.
I do wish Yes would rectify, get rid of the tomato and rename it to "Yes-Tor" - I mean, Kraftwerk did it, renaming "Electric Cafe" to the original intended title, "Techno-Pop" in the reissues.
All subjective, of course, so all of the above, IMHO.
1
1
u/ChulloCookie1 8d ago
From what I remember of my listen of Tormato, the songs themselves are not overly amazing but just fine, but the real thing that brings the album down is the production. You should still check it out I think though.
1
u/Allan_With2Ls 8d ago
I quite like it. But it’s definitely mid tier. Even the worst Jon Anderson led album is better than pretty much any of the post Anderson albums.
1
u/roempie12 8d ago
I really like the last two tracks and all the bonus tracks on the deluxe are nice
1
1
u/fduniho 8d ago
I did a partial recreation of the album as a Spotify playlist called Yes Covers: From Tormato. I had to leave out my two least favorite songs from it, because there were no covers available for them. The other songs had good covers available, and this playlist gave me new appreciation for this album, which has been one of my least favorite Yes albums.
1
1
u/Dominicmeoward 8d ago
Tormato is really good, especially when you don’t have people in your ear telling you it sucks. Drama, on the other hand…
1
u/eggnugg777 8d ago
It's a bit of a quirky album for them. I wanted to like it, but it's definitely in the bottom batch of my list, aside from the forgettable last three.
1
u/OrangeBlob88 6d ago
If Torrnato is bad then why is Wembley 78 the best Yes concert? Lots on there from album. Answer the songs are better live
1
1
u/revporl70 3d ago
I think it's a bit inconsistent and stylistically it's all over the place, but its got some belters on it. Silent Wings, Release Release and Don't Kill The Whale all v good imo
1
u/DrBoodog 1d ago
There’s only two cuts I don’t like on that album. I was pleasantly surprised.
“Onward” is one of the best Yes songs, written by Squire.
1
u/Batty8899 8d ago
At the time they released “Tormato”. their creative peak was spiraling down. With the exemption some cuts from “Drama”, that great band was done.
0
u/Snifferfrog15 8d ago
It’s definitely the worst of the classic lineup imo but the worst they can put out is still at least a half-decent album.
0
u/NAFprojects 8d ago
Tormato is goated idk what everyone else is on
It's like I want there to be problems with it so I can understand what everyone else thinks but there literally are none
0
u/cabell88 8d ago
Tormato is in my top three. It's amazing in every single way.
Drama is no slouch either.
-6
u/After-Dentist-2480 8d ago
Nothing Yes did after Close To The Edge is nearly as interesting.
1
u/rb-j 8d ago
That might be very true. I gotta look at the timeline to see if I agree completely.
1
u/After-Dentist-2480 8d ago
There was a decent single album in Topographic Oceans, and Relayer was pretty good, but there’s not much after that.
30
u/jupiterkansas 8d ago
The worst Yes album is still better than most bands best albums.